Pricing problems rarely start with pricing.

They start with leadership.

In this episode of If Prices Could Talk, Holden Advisors sits down with founder and CEO Charlton Evans of End StateSolutions to explore the leadership decisions that ultimately shape pricing outcomes—and why most organizations focus on tactics instead of the real issue.

They discuss:

- Why pricing is fundamentally a leadership responsibility

- Where pricing strategies break down inside organizations

- The gap between executive intent and frontline execution

- How alignment (or lack of it) impacts pricing performance

- What strong leaders do differently when making pricing decisions

This conversation goes beyond frameworks and tactics. It's about how leaders think, decide, and create the conditions for pricing success.

If your organization is struggling with pricing, the answermay not be in your pricing model—but in how decisions are made.

Chapters

00:00 Intro: Pricing Is a Leadership Decision
02:30 Meet Charlton Evans
05:00 Early Lessons in Leadership and Business
08:00 How Leaders Shape Pricing Outcomes
11:30 Why Pricing Breaks Down Inside Organizations
15:00 The Gap Between Strategy and Execution
18:30 Decision-Making Under Pressure
22:00 Building Alignment Across Teams
26:00 The Role of Accountability in Pricing
30:00 Leadership vs. Tactics in Pricing Strategy
34:00 How Great Leaders Think About Value
38:00 Final Thoughts: What Drives Long-Term Growth

Connect with Charlton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlton-evans/

Connect with Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianadoyle/

Connect with Emily: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-l-932636175/

About Holden Advisors
Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutionsthat meet evolving market demands.

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

https://holdenadvisors.com/

In today’s world, procurement teams are more sophisticatedthan ever—and most sales teams are still playing by outdated rules.

In this episode of If Prices Could Talk, Holden Advisors CEO Brian Doyle and host Travis Umpleby sit down with John La Vecchia, Chief Revenue Officer at Equifax Canada, to unpack what’s really happening inside modern negotiations.

They explore:

- Why procurement teams are winning more deals

- How sales organizations fall into the "commodity trap"

- The critical difference between selling to procurement vs. the business

- Why value must be quantified - not just communicated

- How elite sales teams position themselves as strategic partners

This conversation goes beyond tactics. It’s about themindset shift required to defend value in a world where buyers are trained toreduce it.

If your team is feeling pressure on price, this episode willhelp you rethink how you show up in the conversation.

Chapters

00:00 Intro: Why Negotiation Has Changed
02:30 Meet John Lavecchia (Equifax CRO)
05:30 The Evolution of Procurement Power
07:00 Why Sales Teams Struggle Against Procurement
10:00 The “Commodity Trap” (And How Buyers Use It)
12:00 Selling to Procurement vs. Selling to the Business
15:30 Why Value Must Be Quantified (Not Just Claimed)
18:30 The Role of Executive Conversations in Winning Deals
22:00 Silence, Timing, and Negotiation Strategy
25:00 Building Sales Teams That Act Like Strategic Partners
30:00 Final Thoughts: The Future of Value-Based Selling

Connectwith John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnlavecchia/

Connectwith Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianadoyle/

Connectwith Travis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travis-umpleby/

About Holden Advisors
Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutionsthat meet evolving market demands.

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

https://holdenadvisors.com/

Modern factories rely on a complex network of automation systems, software platforms, and industrial equipment. But behind the scenes, there is a group of companies responsible for making those technologies actually work together: system integrators.

In this episode of If Prices Could Talk, Tracy Dent and Brian Doyle sit down with Adrienne Meyer, CEO of the Control System Integrators Association (CSIA), to explore the companies quietly powering today’s smart manufacturing ecosystem.

System integrators connect machines, robotics, and software inside modern factories. Their work sits at the intersection of engineering, technology, and business leadership — and it often determines whether complex industrial projects succeed or fail.

The conversation explores how system integrators operate, why many engineering leaders find themselves running businesses without formal business training, and what executives can learn from the challenges of delivering large-scale automation projects.

Topics discussed:

• What system integrators actually do inside modern factories
• The hidden industry behind smart manufacturing
• Why engineers often end up running businesses
• The leadership challenges inside engineering-driven companies
• What happens when complex industrial projects go wrong
• How long-term client relationships influence pricing behavior
• What CEOs and commercial leaders can learn from system integrators

For leaders operating in industrial, manufacturing, engineering, or technology-driven businesses, this episode provides a look inside the companies connecting the modern factory.

Chapters:

00:00 Introductions 

03:58 The Control System Integrators Association and the hidden industry powering smart manufacturing

06:03 The challenges inside engineering and integration firms

09:00 What the best integrators are doing right with AI

10:45 Understanding and communicating value for system integrators

16:03 Lessons from tough negotiations in non-profits and academia

26:20 Driving collaboration and problem solving with associations

28:39 Upcoming innovation with AI and new technology 

Connect with Adrienne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adriennemeyer/

Connect with Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianadoyle/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

Learn more about CSIA: https://controlsys.org/

About Holden Advisors 

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power. 

https://holdenadvisors.com/

Pricing power rarely disappears overnight. More often, it erodes slowly as markets become more transparent, buyers gain more information, and sellers struggle to defend value.

The automotive industry has lived through this transformation for decades.

In this episode of If Prices Could Talk, Partner Patrick McCullough and host Tracy Dent sit down with Randy Kobat, a longtime automotive industry executive, to discuss how pricing, negotiation, and market transparency evolved in the car business—and what other industries can learn from it.

From the early days of Kelley Blue Book to today’s data-driven pricing models, the conversation explores how information changed the balance of power between buyers and sellers.

We discuss:

·       Why some sellers consistently defend price while others default to discounting

·       How inventory transparency reshaped negotiation dynamics

·       What pricing discipline actually looks like inside dealerships

·       The role of algorithms and data in modern pricing decisions

·       Lessons B2B companies can apply to protect pricing power

For executives responsible for revenue, pricing, and sales strategy, the automotive market offers a powerful case study in how pricing power evolves—and how companies can protect it.

Chapters

00:00 Introductions

03:58 How to think about value in automotive software

05:17 Sustaining trust in pricing for a 100 year old brand

09:54 The economics behind dealer pricing decisions

13:40 Give-Gets and other negotiation dynamics between buyers and dealers

18:05 Pricing to value with tiered offers to drive and sustain growth

26:45 Algorithmic pricing and the future of car sales

34:42 Lessons and final takeaways for B2B pricing leaders

Connect with Randy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randykobat/

Connect with Patrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmccullough-holdenadvisors/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

About Holden Advisors 
Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power. 

https://holdenadvisors.com/

In this episode of If Prices Could Talk,  Tracy Dent sits down with Jeet Mukherjee (Chief Strategy Officer) to unpack why pricing services feels more emotional, more political, and more fragile than pricing products - and why that can quietly destroy pricing power inside otherwise strong companies.

We’ll explore why discounts show up late in the deal, why confidence matters more than math, and what leaders can do to stop services pricing from going off the rails.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why services pricing breaks down faster than product pricing
• How internal alignment (or lack thereof) sabotages price execution
• How discounting creeps in even when value is obvious
• What leaders get wrong about buyer types, value, and negotiation when selling services

00:00 Introductions

01:43 Why B2B services pricing feels so much harder than products

04:47 Most common way to price in B2B professional services

09:31 What’s my differentiation and how do I charge for it?

12:34 How to put the client in control when they’re buying

14:26 Understanding your client’s price sensitivity

21:55 When AI pushes us towards outcome-based pricing

28:10 Understanding your market and benchmarking

Connect with Jeet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeet-mukherjee-58462a1/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

ABOUT HOLDEN ADVISORS

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

Learn more at www.holdenadvisors.com

Without strong execution from client facing teams, even the best price model will underperform. In this episode of If Prices Could Talk, Tracy Dent sits down with Jeet Mukherjee (Chief Strategy Officer) and Travis Umpleby (Negotiation Master Facilitator) to unpack why price increases derail once they hit the field.

This episode breaks down why price increases collapse in the real world: misaligned leadership, weak discount governance, poor preparation for pushback, and sales teams left with no tools beyond discounting. 

Join us for practical stories and tactics in using service levels to create choice, tightening escalation paths, and rolling out changes to decrease risk and ensure smooth execution.

Key topics: 

• The 3 most common reasons price changes fail (and how to prevent them)
• How discount approval behavior quietly trains buyers to escalate
• Why quotes are fuel for sales confidence
• How to use service levels and packaging to give buyers choices and decrease pushback
• Ways to drive executive alignment and ensure teams have the right tools to go get the new pricing

Chapters

00:00 Introductions

01:01 The human and emotional aspects of a price change

04:53 Building belief in your value so sellers can negotiate with backbone

10:11 The top 3 issues in price changes: executive alignment, preparation, and tool kits for sellers

19:47 How to reduce negotiation pressure through choices and tiered offerings

25:41 How to think about timelines for executing a price change

32:25 Learnings from early price changes and key takeaways from trial and error

Connect with Jeet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeet-mukherjee-58462a1/ 

Connect with Travis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travis-umpleby/ 

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

ABOUT HOLDEN ADVISORS

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

Learn more at www.holdenadvisors.com

In this episode, Cuvama CEO MG Gurbaxani joins Jeet Mukherjee and Tracy Dent to break down myths in value based selling and what it takes to succeed when AI is no longer a differentiator.

Learn how to sell on value versus features, what CROs are saying behind closed doors about the pressure to scale sales with automation, and how to maintain the human element of discovery.

Topics:

• What value-based selling looks like (done right)
• How to sell a value story instead of insist on ROI
• How to fix discovery so pricing reflects impact, not cost
• Ways companies are quantifying impact to build and protect pricing power

Chapters

00:00 Introductions

02:38 The value selling illusion and what CEOs think is happening

11:21 How to navigate a large buying center

20:51 CRO insights on AI and value selling 

35:46 Stories of how value quantification builds pricing power

44:08 What B2B SaaS CEOs need to get right in H2 

About MG

MG Gurbaxani is the co-founder and CEO of Cuvama, a Customer Value Management platform designed to help B2B GTM teams uncover and communicate value at scale. Over the last two decades, he has guided more than 80 global B2B clients across industries to sharpen pricing strategies, accelerate sales cycles, and enhance customer retention. Cuvama is MG’s answer to the persistent failures he witnessed in value-based selling - transforming his advisory IP into software that empowers sales teams to drive real business outcomes.

Connect with MG: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mg-gurbaxani/

Connect with Jeet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeet-mukherjee-58462a1/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

About Cuvama

Cuvama is a London-based Customer Value Management platform that empowers B2B sales and customer success teams to sell business outcomes, not just products. Founded in 2022, Cuvama guides teams to run expert discovery, link buyer needs to impact, and reinforce success post-sale.  By codifying your unique value proposition into structured workflows, Cuvama enables consistent messaging, higher win‑rates, better pricing, and improved customer lifetime value.

https://cuvama.com/

About Holden Advisors

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

https://holdenadvisors.com/

Many B2B companies still rely on cost-plus pricing. For good reason! It’s clear, it’s simple to explain and defend, and it’s predictable.

But when buyers use it as an excuse to call you a commodity and demand discounts, it can lead to extremely thin margins and dilute your pricing power. 

In this episode, Tracy Dent and Jeet Mukherjee discuss five levers to escape the cost-plus pricing trap without blowing up your commercial model. 

Key topics covered:

• The basics in quantifying differential value and understanding quality of revenue
• How to differentiate beyond the product itself
• Ways to reevaluate your price metric to be outcome-specific
• How to protect resources and assets in a scarce market
• How to build rules to price with confidence and reward the right customer behaviors 

If your commercial team struggles to defend pricing in the face of buyer pressure, this episode will help you start making the shift one step at a time.

Chapters

00:00 Introductions

01:32 Why cost plus pricing still dominates

06:05 When buyers call you a commodity

11:45 Handling price negotiations at the time of renewal

19:39 Reframing price from SKUs to outcomes

22:38 Understanding your quality of revenue

25:49 Rules-based pricing that reflects value

https://holdenadvisors.com/how-to-break-out-of-the-cost-plus-pricing-trap/

Connect with Jeet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeet-mukherjee-58462a1/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

ABOUT HOLDEN ADVISORS

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands. 

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

Learn more at www.holdenadvisors.com

In this episode, we unpack the impact of AI on SaaS pricing, differentiation, and value - and a rundown of pricing related pops and flops.

From Notion’s bundling strategy to the GenAI price war and Reddit’s data lawsuit against Anthropic, this episode digs into how commoditization is forcing B2B software leaders to rethink what they’re really selling—and what buyers are still willing to pay for.

Roundtable episode with host Tracy Dent and in-house pricing experts Jeet Mukherjee, Pete Morelli, and Richard Klein.

Key topics:

• Notion AI’s move from add-on to bundled feature
• Amex vs. Chase value messaging strategies
• GenAI price wars and what they mean for innovation
• Pricing around compute vs. value delivered
• Reddit vs. Anthropic and data monetization implications
• What to do when AI features are table stakes

Chapters

00:00 Introductions

01:09 Price pops and flops: Amex, Chase, Cox Internet, and Notion AI

12:29 G2 buyer behavior report and where we are in the AI market lifecycle

https://learn.g2.com/hubfs/G2-2025-Buyer-Behavior-Report-AI-Always-Included.pdf

19:36 When AI becomes a commodity, how can a business differentiate itself?

https://techstrong.ai/articles/when-ai-becomes-a-commodity-how-can-a-business-differentiate-itself/

21:49 Monetizely: The Gen AI price war is coming and customers will lose

https://www.getmonetizely.com/blogs/the-genai-price-war-is-coming-and-customers-will-lose

27:03 WSJ: Reddit sues Anthropic, Alleges unauthorized use of site’s data

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/reddit-lawsuit-anthropic-ai-3b9624dd?

https://fortune.com/2025/06/11/nvidia-jensen-huang-disagress-anthropic-ceo-dario-amodei-ai-jobs/ 

https://searchengineland.com/openai-may-pay-reddit-70m-for-licensing-deal-451882

 
Connect with Jeet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeet-mukherjee-58462a1/

Connect with Pete: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petermorelli/ 

Connect with Richard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardfgklein/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/ 

Learn more at www.holdenadvisors.com

How do you build a sales team that doesn’t crumble under pressure? 30-year sales veteran Vanessa Giuliani joins Holden Advisors CEO Brian Doyle and host Tracy Dent to unpack real-world lessons from high-stakes negotiations across the US, UK, and Canada. 

From poker-playing procurement tactics to sales team transformation, this episode is full of stories and takeaways for sales leaders up against tough procurement teams and challenging negotiations.

Topics covered:

• Sales leadership during pricing pressure
• Building sales teams that protect value and don’t fold against procurement
• Regional differences in negotiation style
• Real stories from negotiations and what to do when it turns into a game of poker

ABOUT VANESSA

Vanessa has been leading teams for 30 years with in-depth experience in financial services, data management, software, technology, credit, and fraud. Most recently, she was the general manager of an international business unit of a multi-billion dollar Fortune 1000 company.

With experience with large and complex organizations like Equifax and CIBC Bank, she has built new revenue streams, set up data exchanges, product transfer between countries, migrations, transformations, and developing new lines of business from the ground up.

Connect with Vanessa: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-giuliani-/

Connect with Brian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianadoyle/

Connect with Tracy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracyleighdent/

ABOUT HOLDEN ADVISORS

Holden Advisors is a boutique consulting firm specializing in B2B pricing and sales performance. We help companies understand their value through the eyes of their customers and use these insights to develop, price, and sell solutions that meet evolving market demands.

Our tailored strategies are designed to improve differential value and go-to-market execution. With decades of expertise in value-based pricing, sales implementation, and negotiation, we partner with companies to build and protect their pricing power.

Learn more at www.holdenadvisors.com