In this episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, sits down with longtime friend, collaborator, and trauma therapist Lisa Ferentz, LCSW-C, DAPA, for a spirited, heartfelt, and refreshingly honest conversation on the art of psychotherapy. Together, they explore what it means to truly work in an integrative, client-centered way—where healing is not prescribed from a manual but discovered collaboratively, through relationship, creativity, and humility.

Lisa reflects on her decades of experience as a therapist, educator, and founder of the Ferentz Institute, where she trains clinicians across modalities. She shares the philosophy behind her best-selling book Letting Go of Self-Destructive Behaviors and its accompanying workbook, as well as her more recent publication Finding Your Ruby Slippers, a guided journey in accessing one’s inner wisdom. Drawing inspiration from The Wizard of Oz, Lisa offers a deeply compassionate, empowering lens for understanding trauma survivors—not as broken or resistant, but as protectively adaptive.

This episode touches on:

• Why integration beats allegiance to any single model

• The difference between being a “baker” vs. a “cook” in therapy

• How parts work, somatics, and expressive modalities intersect organically

• Why terms like “resistant” and “avoidant” do more harm than good

• The “phobia of vulnerability” and what it really signals

• How clinicians can be creative, sneaky, and humble in equal measure

• Why modeling self-compassion matters more than teaching it

• Janina and Lisa’s shared belief: the client is always the expert on the client

With warmth, laughter, and remarkable alignment, Janina and Lisa discuss how they’ve both spent decades advocating for a strengths-based, non-pathologizing, and emotionally nuanced approach to trauma treatment. They reflect on the early days of their friendship (which began at an empty book signing table!), and why both believe in weaving rather than worshipping therapeutic modalities.

Whether you’re a seasoned clinician, a student just beginning the journey, or a survivor in search of hope, this conversation is filled with insight, validation, and encouragement. As Lisa puts it, “Be a cook, not a baker”—therapy isn’t about perfect recipes. It’s about presence, attunement, and the courage to trust both your client and yourself.

Lisa is a recognized expert in the strengths-based, de-pathologized treatment of trauma and has been in private practice for over 40 years.  She presents workshops and keynote addresses nationally and internationally, and is a clinical consultant to practitioners and mental health agencies in the United States, Canada, the UK, Italy, Ireland, Spain, and Israel.  She has been an Adjunct Faculty member at several Universities, and is the Founder of “The Ferentz Institute,” now in its eighteenth year of providing continuing education to mental health professionals and graduating thousands of clinicians from her two Certificate Programs in Advanced Trauma Treatment.  In 2009 she was voted the “Social Worker of Year” by the Maryland Society for Clinical Social Work.  Lisa is the author of “Treating Self-Destructive Behaviors in Traumatized Clients: A Clinician’s Guide,” now in its second edition, “Letting Go of Self-Destructive Behaviors: A Workbook of Hope and Healing,” and “Finding Your Ruby Slippers: Transformative Life Lessons From the Therapist’s Couch.”  Lisa also hosted a weekly radio talk show, writes blogs and articles for websites on trauma, attachment, self-destructive behaviors, and self-care, teaches on many webinars, and is a contributor to Psychologytoday.com. 

You can follow Lisa’s work on her website, theferentzinstitute.com, YouTube, LinkedIn and Twitter.

In this engaging and heartfelt episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, is joined by psychiatrist, author, and trauma specialist Frank Anderson, MD for a wide-ranging conversation that is both clinically insightful and deeply personal.

With over three decades in the field of trauma and dissociation, Frank reflects on his evolution from a young Harvard-trained psychiatrist to a pioneering voice in Integrating Internal Family Systems (IFS), neuroscience, and psychopharmacology. Now, with multiple bestselling books, a production company, and a growing public platform, Frank is on a mission to bring trauma healing beyond the therapy office—to the wider world.

Together, Janina and Frank explore:

• How to prescribe medication with respect for parts and without re-enacting power dynamics

• Why trauma-informed psychopharmacology must be collaborative, consensual, and education-focused

• The healing power of internal consensus—“all parts must agree” before a script is written

• The myth that antidepressants “fix” depression—and how they actually work to widen the window of tolerance

• Why therapy that only targets memory, but not blended parts, misses the heart of complex trauma

• Frank’s concept of medications as unblending agents, helping clients step out of reliving and into relationship with their experience

• Stories of early trauma treatment missteps—and the lessons we’ve learned from them

• The shift from regressive parts mapping to strategic, systems-informed integration

• Frank also shares highlights from his books:

• To Be Loved — a memoir and upcoming feature film exploring truth, trauma, and transformation

• Transcending Trauma — a guide to treating complex PTSD with IFS and neuroscience

• IFS Skills Training Manual — a practical workbook that became a foundational tool for clinicians

The episode also includes a moving discussion about Frank’s production company, Trauma-Informed Media, and their work developing a docuseries adaptation of The Body Keeps the Score in collaboration with Bessel van der Kolk. Frank speaks passionately about reaching trauma survivors around the globe who may never access therapy—and about the urgent need for accessible, accurate information at scale.

Throughout, Janina and Frank reflect on their 30-year friendship, their complementary clinical philosophies, and their shared reputation for helping the clients others fear to touch. Their chemistry is warm, funny, and real—and their insights speak directly to clinicians navigating the complex intersections of parts, trauma, and pharmacology.

This episode is for:

• Therapists curious about how medication fits in trauma treatment

• Clinicians working with blended, suicidal, or highly dysregulated clients

• Survivors looking to understand the why behind their healing journey

• Anyone seeking hope, humility, and clarity in the chaos of complex trauma

As Frank says:

“I educate. You decide. And no medication happens until all parts are on board.”

Whether you’re a therapist, survivor, educator, or just trauma-curious, this conversation offers validation, vision, and a gentle challenge: How can we take what we know—and share it with the world?

Frank Anderson, MD, is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist and psychotherapist, specializing in trauma and dissociation. He is a lead trainer for the IFS Institute and has a long-standing affiliation with Bessel van der Kolk’s Trauma Center. He also serves as an advisor to the International Association of Trauma Professionals. His most recent books include To Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation, a memoir about his personal journey, and Transcending Trauma: Healing Complex PTSD with Internal Family Systems. 

https://www.frankandersonmd.com/

Program with Janina:  https://www.frankandersonmd.com/trauma-beyond-the-story

In this powerful first episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, is joined by longtime friend and colleague Ruth Cohn, MFT, for a deeply moving exploration of one of the most overlooked forms of trauma: neglect.

Ruth shares the origins of her groundbreaking work on neglect—what she calls “the trauma of nothing”—and invites listeners to rethink the invisible wounds carried by those who, on the surface, report no abuse or violence. Together, Janina and Ruth illuminate how missing experiences, in addition to overt events, shape our relationship templates, emotional regulation, and sense of self.

This episode touches on:

• The origins of Ruth’s clinical curiosity about neglect

• Why “nothing happened to me” can signal a profound trauma

• Intergenerational transmission of disconnection and diffuse attention

• Gendered vulnerability in attachment and emotional development

• The survival strategy of caregiving in children with unmet needs

• The importance of attuning to implicit memory and early relational absence

• A compassionate reframing of “avoidant” clients and men in therapy

With warmth, clinical insight, and decades of experience between them, Ruth and Janina challenge the field to hold space for what has too often been dismissed: nothingness that shaped everything.

In Conversation with Janina Fisher features intimate, unscripted dialogues between Dr. Janina Fisher and leading voices in trauma therapy. Each episode explores the nuances of healing—from attachment wounds and somatics to IFS, memory reconsolidation, and anti-oppressive care. Thoughtful, relational, and deeply human, these conversations offer insight and inspiration for clinicians and curious minds alike.