What does it mean when we talk of floods of migrants? Is it accurate or even useful? Or does it distract from the real floods, the disasters brought on by climate change? Lauren Piko, presents her paper “Hydraulics and flood: rhetorics and realities of fluidity in Australian cities” at the 2019 Historical Materialism Conference, held at Trades Hall in Melbourne.   Then later in the show, Nic Beuret discusses the problematic connected between environmentalist ideas of 'carrying capacity' and eco-fascist obsession with population and militarised borders. The interview is an edited extract from a longer conversation with Nic from September 2019.    Guests: Lauren Piko; Nic Beuret.   Links: 'Fighting eco-fascism' Earth Matters 15 September 2019.    Earth Matters #1224 was produced by Teishan Ahearne.