In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Macon L. Tucker III, Director of the Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI) for Baltimore City Public Schools.  

Mónica and Macon talk about the transformative work happening in the City Schools district of Baltimore. Macon outlines the evolution and impact of the ECPI and how it  aims to cultivate inclusive and equity-focused school leaders. 

Key elements of that goal include detailed partnerships with local universities, internal collaboration across various departments, and extensive community involvement. Their conversation highlights substantial initiatives being undertaken, showcasing the district's serious commitment to systemic change and student success.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

On turning schoolhouse into a community building

[04:15]  One of the biggest initiatives that I've been a part of in city schools is our portfolio work around renovating, closing, and even rebuilding new schools. If you look over the course of time, we had some of the oldest buildings in the state as well as up and down the East Coast as far as building structures were concerned. And so throughout this process we have been able to either rebuild, renovate 28 now, I think, schools across our district. And so that has allowed us to really turn that schoolhouse into a community building that is able to really shape and foster learning for all students but then reach out into the community as well so that we could be community schools. That has also allowed us to be able to bring in equity center leaders who are also able to foster and help grow communities.

How the partnership with the mayor’s office helped transform Baltimore City Schools

[05:13] Baltimore is one of those cities that you really don't hear a lot about, right? But our commitment to education has allowed us to really champion the work that we're doing. I'll also say the city schools, I think, has a great partnership with our mayor's office to ensure that there's a collaboration of how we are approaching the support that we're giving to our students and our school communities because we would not be able to change a city the way we've been able to do within the last 10 years under Dr. Santelises’ time without that tight partnership. So, Baltimore is definitely a unique place. It has its pockets. You look at those historical maps, and you have seen where redlining exists, right? But now when you start to look at our new academic data that's coming out, you see where the pockets are expanding as far as, like, growth and student achievement and resources and things like that. So we've definitely seen a transformation over the past 20 years since I've been here.

What made the partnership between university partners and city schools work

[13:30] There's a Baltimore context that talks about redlining all the historical context pieces, right? And so that was a foundational piece that everyone in the DPT (district partnership team) was able to be normed on. So then when we come into spaces, we leave titles at the door, we leave biases at the door, and we come into the space as centered as possible. That gave us the tool to actually engage and have authentic conversation and have transparent conversation. Unfortunately we had to sunset that at the end of last school year because of some new legislation that has come about. But those key principles are still things that we're able to still lean into and still abide by when we are in community together. I think that helped build the relationship between university partners and city schools. And so with that being one of those foundational key elements, I think that's where we've been able to see the yielded success of how we've been able to partner with our university partners specifically.

• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Carla Finkelstein, associate professor in the Department of Instructional Leadership and Professional Development at Towson University.  

Mónica and Carla talk about the evolution of Towson's partnership with Baltimore City Public Schools (BCPS) through the Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI). Carla shares her experience in elementary and secondary education and the story of her role in founding the Green School of Baltimore. 

Carla notes how historical Towson's collaboration with BCPS is, and the context surrounding it. She explains the transformative impact of ECPI on their program, the importance of relationship-building, and the development of structures for sustaining equity-centered leadership pipelines. Their conversation highlights Towson's efforts to integrate professional development, co-teaching models, and shared leadership practices for the benefit of all cohorts in their programs.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Why Carla saw the Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative as a promising opportunity

[05:51]  I would say that our leadership programs at Towson had, for sure, some equity-centered commitments prior to our joining ECPI, but that, to be honest, we knew that there was room for improvement in our programs in terms of our cohesiveness across instructors and the coherence of our through-lines across courses.

On why collaboration was hard to come by before ECPI

[08:31] I would say before ECPI, all of the faculty in our department are scholars of education and educational leadership, and also have significant practitioner experience, most of us in our local context. But I would say that, like many universities, our time teaching and preparing for teaching was primarily isolated in many ways, and that any impetus to collaborate was a little hard to come by. We had monthly faculty meetings, like most universities do, and during those times, we might gather instructors who were all teaching the same course and investigate what we were doing. But it wasn't nearly enough time to really be diving into a shared understanding of what we were hoping to provide our students with, and what, kind of, leadership practices we envisioned they would walk away from.

The often overlooked importance of building relationships in university-district partnerships

[14:53] I think the time spent building relationships also doesn’t always get the attention that it deserves. Some of that building relationships was around our professional commitments, and some of it was really getting to know each other personally as well. But the idea that my colleagues and I really came into this initiative having firm commitments to wanting to be of service to the district, that’s not the norm. Partnerships between universities and districts have historically tended to be primarily transactional. And so, even though we had that desire, it took significant amounts of time to really understand each other and know the depth of our values and commitments in order to find where those connections and leverage points really were.

How understanding Baltimore's context shapes today’s educational practices

[16:40] A deep understanding of the social and political history of the city of Baltimore is key to understanding how we move in our work. If you don't know how redlining worked in Baltimore, then you won't have a nuanced and comprehensive understanding of why our neighborhoods are the way they are, why economic stratification remains the way that it has been in Baltimore for so long. And of course, all of those things affect the way that our schools run. I mean, I would say that, kind of, commitment towards understanding and being respectful of context is true wherever you are, but it's important to us that we know what that is specifically in Baltimore City.

• Carla Finkelstein | Towson University
• Carla Finkelstein | LinkedIn Profile
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Darryl Williams, Interim Assistant Chair for Administration in the Dept of Teacher Education and Professional Development,Professor of Practice, and Program Director at Morgan State University.  

Mónica and Darryl talk about Darryl’s background and the work he’s doing at Morgan State University in Baltimore, MD. Darryl explains the strategic partnership between Morgan State University's School of Education and Urban Studies and Baltimore City Public Schools (BCPS) and elaborates on the Equity Center Principal Pipeline Initiative (ECPI) and its aim to develop sustainable and equitable leadership within the BCPS. 

Darryl emphasizes the importance of relevant, community-focused education and highlights the collaborative efforts that have strengthened the principal preparation program. They also reflect on the historical impact of Morgan State University as a historically black college and university (HBCU) and the critical importance of trust and communication in building effective institutional partnerships.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

On strengthening the pipeline

[08:01] I came at the beginning of year three of the partnership. So, I think the contribution that I saw when I came was really having key individuals come together and looking at the redesign of the principal pipeline. So, that included pre-service, those who were studying to become an administrator, those who then finished the program at the university, and those who were seeking placement as a principal intern or a first-year principal. So, in order to do that, the university had to sit down with the school officials and really look at what we were trying to strengthen in that pipeline. And so, that involved key individuals from the school system as well as the School of Education. And I think what we contribute that's unique for Morgan, and again, I go back to that strategic plan, there are goals that the School of Education and Urban Studies had. But we could also partner with other schools within the university, such as the School of Business and Management.

On his focus on student recruitment

[12:57] When I arrived, I had a focus and interest in one of the quality measures, which was the candidate admissions. So, that's about the recruitment. How were we recruiting? So, we went from a simple trifold that had some information to then being a part of many of the leadership symposiums, many of the recruitment efforts in the school system, (and) opportunities to have QR codes. So, we became a little bit more high-tech, much more visible. 

How Baltimore City’s uniqueness strengthened the partnership

[16:59] When you think about Baltimore City, you think about the richness of its history, you think about some of the challenges, you think about how they have built this pipeline to really help our leaders to be successful leaders to turn schools around. Sometimes there may not be as many resources. Sometimes there's great resources. Sometimes we are looking at small schools, we're looking at large schools. Sometimes we're looking at the phenomenon of a K-8 school. Those are unique. That's the context in which we have in our city, but what a great opportunity to really prepare students to take on those responsibilities. You know, I think about the history, I think about the resources, and just to see the partnership that the City schools really want the students to be successful because they're their staff. And so, we want them to be successful because a part of that is we get to say, "Yes, they are Morgan graduates." And also, our accreditation, we continue to provide evidence around our accreditation of how our graduates are doing. So, I think it's a win-win.

• Dr. Darryl Williams | Morgan State University
• Dr. Darryl Williams | National Center for the Elimination of Educational Disparities
• Dr. Darryl Williams | LinkedIn Profile
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Shawn Bird, Deputy Superintendent of Teaching, Learning, and Leadership for the San Antonio Independent School District (SAISD).  

Mónica and Shawn talk about Shawn’s extensive experience in public education and he details SAISD's initiatives to develop a sustainable leadership pipeline through their collaboration with the University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) and participation in the Wallace Foundation's Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI). 

Their discussion covers SAISD's strategic focus on recruiting and nurturing high-quality leaders, the evolution and contributions of this partnership, and the impactful systemic changes aimed at enhancing student achievement and equity. Shawn highlights the importance of structured support for new principals and the innovative, organic growth of programs arising from ECPI. 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Tackling recruitment challenges in urban school districts

[07:06] The district's gone through a lot of change, but one thing that we were struggling with, particularly after COVID, is our workforce preparation and just getting our workforce to just recruit people to come here and work because in urban settings, it is more challenging.

SHORT VIDEO: Preparing future leaders beyond the traditional preparation program

[09:38] In addition to those preparation academies, once you get the job, we have academies to support you in your first three years of the job, which include coaching and those kinds of things, which we're going to sustain even after the Wallace grant is gone. And that's part of what you do with Wallace is you have to have the sustainability plan, as you know. But that really speaks to the power of this collaboration. I mean, we're starting to see results already in terms of retention and also who is getting into these programs and the quality of candidates attracting. You know, we have a pretty rigorous selection process, and I've worked in urban education my whole career. And, you know, it does take a special personality to work in an urban core because you're dealing with really high poverty, and you're dealing with, a lot of times, students [who] have interrupted education or there's several grade levels behind. We have high mobility. There's lots of issues that you need to have skills to address when you work in the urban school district. And so we know we have to prepare people differently than just the traditional preparation program that they might go through in college.

On strengthening the ECPI Initiative through external partnerships

[13:32] UTSA is the main partner, but we also have worked with the University of Texas at Austin. They've done some stuff with our central office leadership because this has touched the central office as well. So, you know, because you can't just talk about equity without touching every part of the organization to make sure that it's operationalized and it's coming true.

SHORT VIDEO: Shawn shares what he’s most proud of in his work with San Antonio

[20:31] The thing about UTSA is they have really worked with us to modify their curriculum and their program to really meet the needs of… they're really preparing people to enter our schools. It's very much tailored. So I'm teaching a class right now, [and] the principalship and the project that we're having them do is look at their survey data, their climate and culture survey data where they currently work, and then develop a problem of practice. So if you were the principal tomorrow and you're just going into that job, this is what it is. What are you going to do to impact the culture? I mean, that project didn't exist before we made the partnership. And so, it's really just that collaboration with UTSA was really willing to open up their doors to us and say, What do you need? And, you know, not to offend our higher education partners, but, you know, they're usually pretty slow to change, and so UTSA has really been nimble, and they have demonstrated that they have a desire to really give us what we need in terms of the workforce.

• Shawn Bird | LinkedIn Profile
• SAISD | Homepage
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Welcome back for season 5! In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Juan Manuel Niño, Professor of Educational Leadership and Policy Studies at UT San Antonio, where his research focusing on school district leadership, leadership preparation for social justice, latino leadership, and intersectionalities.

Mónica and Juan explore the history and development of the Urban School Leaders Collaborative (USLC) program, which began in 2003. The program focuses on equity-centered leadership and has expanded from a master’s degree program to include a Ph.D., with pathways now for both principals and superintendents. Juan illustrates the impact of the collaborative efforts between UT San Antonio and SAISD, highlighting the Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI) supported by the Wallace Foundation. 

Their discussion covers the importance of sustainable leadership and the intentional collaboration between university faculty and district leaders. Listen in for insights into the challenges and strategies for creating a lasting and impactful leadership pipeline in education.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Building leadership pipelines rooted in community 

[03:07] The story for the program here at UT San Antonio began in 2003 with the efforts of Dr. Encarnacion Garza and, at that time, Dean Betty Merchant, who wanted to build a sustainable, grow-your-own model within the community of San Antonio. So at that time, they worked with San Antonio ISD and the superintendents to build and to develop a program that would be specific to the needs of the community and to the students and the population of San Antonio ISD. And then hence, that's why they developed the Urban School Leaders Collaborative in 2003.

Juan discusses the role of the university in sustaining the equity pipeline.

[16:19] I just feel that there's so much richness and tradition in this model, in this program. And [one of the] many things that I've learned is the whole notion of being intentional. Being intentional and transparent and authentic to make sure that this framework is understood and that it's not only respected but that it's really embraced as an opportunity for many school practitioners to look at their practice very differently.

The collaborative efforts between UT San Antonio and SAISD’s equity-focused partnership

[12:09] We are very proud that the USLC has always been incorporating clinical faculty into our leadership preparation at the master's level. So we always would invite graduates from our program to come and co-teach with us. However, due to budget and funding, sometimes it would be myself co-teaching another class with another graduate. It never was that we had a co-facilitation. Now because of the ECPI and the opportunities that have been afforded through this initiative, we have been able to be more intentional in that approach, meaning that all our coursework through the master's and the PhD, we have a co-teaching model. How that works is that every night when the cohort comes for class, they have two professors. One which is a tenured line professor from UT San Antonio from the department. And then we have the other one, who is a district member, whether at the campus level or at the district level, who is also co-teaching with that UTSA professor. So it has really helped us to develop a preparation that is aligned to meeting the needs and many times the initiatives that the district has set for.

Investing with intentionality: building authentic relationships rooted in community

Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez [27:53]: Part of the sustainability discussion is always about structures and processes, and maybe, actually, sustainability is about people and relationships. And so how do you continue to grow and deepen relationships around a broader network of people, both at the university and [on] the district side?

Dr. Juan Manuel Niño ​[28:51]: The process sometimes in the universities are not as predictable as I would wish we would have, right? And say, as [for] the funding and all of those aspects, I'm like, you know, creating a cadre of clinical faculty with an equity-centered mindset and becoming very, very familiar with a theory of action, to me, speaks of a sustainable model because we still have to invest and hire clinical model adjunct professors to come and help us teach. Why not invest with intentionality on building relationships with faculty members that are sitting in school districts and cultivating a cohort that will support this initiative? And that's what I've been doing since ECPI. And I think  that's one of the biggest strengths that ECPI has afforded the USLC is to take not only the ownership of USLC in the department, but also sharing that ownership with district leaders throughout San Antonio.

• Faculty Profile | UT San Antonio
• Profile | Journal of Research in Rural Education
• Juan’s Research Page | ResearchGate
• ECPI | Wallace Foundation

Today, we re-share a Season 3 episode that ties in perfectly to our upcoming season. We selected this episode because in it, Dr. Rotunda Floyd-Cooper provides a great overview of the pivotal work happening through The Wallace Foundation’s Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI). 

We think this episode is the perfect introduction to our Season 5 conversations with some of ECPI’s district and university partners. Enjoy!

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Rotunda Floyd-Cooper, Vice President of Education Leadership at The Wallace Foundation, about ECPI, which aims to develop equity-oriented school principals across eight diverse school districts in the U.S. 

The discussion explores the initiative's impact on educational leadership and practices, the critical role of community and university partnerships, and the unique, context-specific approaches to defining and implementing equity in education. Rotunda also shares insights into the continuous improvement processes and upcoming research findings that are expected in the future.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

How ECPI districts and their university partners ensure high-quality, equity-centered principal preparation programs.

12:36: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] How are the ECPI districts working with their university partners to make sure that their principal preparation is high-quality, equity-centered, and, sort of, building on strengths of the community?

12:52: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah, that’s a great question. What's been fantastic to see in these partnerships with districts and these institutions of higher education is, just as we know that the districts want pools of principal candidates who are well-prepared to meet the real-world demands of the role. We also know that the university partners strive to offer the highest quality and most relevant principal preparation programs to attract candidates and to meet the needs of the districts that they serve. That's the reason that the partnerships between the universities and the local school communities are so essential. Each district is either developing or revising leader standards and then working closely with their university partners to ensure that those standards will guide the pre-service work and preparation that the university partner offers. And in some cases, for example, in Columbus City Schools, in partnership with the Ohio State University, there's even collaboration on the development and support of in-service principals. These partnerships, in some cases, even result in more strategic approaches to preparation for assistant principals within the district.

The Wallace Foundation recognizes each district’s unique definition of equity.

07:59: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] While we do, at Wallace, think about equity in a very specific way, The Wallace Foundation is not imposing a singular definition of equity on the districts that we are partnering with. Each district has actually defined its own vision for equity with input from the community. And they are designing their pipelines with the vision for equity embedded that they have collaborated with their communities around. And what's really exciting about the work is that, in partnership with the stakeholders that I mentioned previously, they are iterating on what they learn over time about the needs of principals, along with the interests of their communities, and they leverage the deep knowledge of some of the other partners, like state agencies, as well as members of higher ed communities, to engage in this continuous improvement process.

08:51: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] And just hearing you say that now also makes me think that, actually, part of the approach, if that's the right word of the foundation, is to recognize that issues of equity have to be locally driven. And so, that's actually part of the equity definition, right? It's not something that can't be imposed, but rather locally driven, locally addressed in local leadership.

[Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah. I think that's a fantastic point.

Rotunda shares insights and hopes for sustaining Wallace leadership initiatives

19:10 Through a series of independent research studies, we're hoping to learn whether large districts, in partnership with all of the stakeholders that we've spent this time talking about, can create principal pipelines that are capable of producing and supporting leaders who can advance equity within their districts. We're also hoping, though, to be able to understand how local history and district culture shape approaches to equity. And more specifically, the researchers who are engaged in this component of a study will be able to document the cultural, historical, and organizational factors that district partnership teams have to grapple with as they develop visions, goals, and plans for equity-centered principal pipelines.

• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

• Wallace Foundation Profile
• LinkedIn

Welcome back to Season 5 of In the Lead with UCEA!

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Paul Fleming, Chief Learning Officer at Learning Forward, where he works with states and districts to increase educator and leader effectiveness through student-focused, high-quality, professional learning.

Mónica and Paul discuss Learning Forward's international outreach, including their popular annual conference and strong membership base. Paul emphasizes the importance of cohesive principal pipelines and the educator lifecycle and also the significance of professional learning standards, their development process, and their adoption by states. Paul explains why aligning high-quality professional learning practices across educational systems and the critical partnerships between state agencies and higher education is necessary. 

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

The danger of not having a cohesive and comprehensive set of professional learning standards

[08:46] We see this a lot, and I'm sure you do too, both in the higher ed space and in the K12 space, is that what we really want to keep doing is trying to help increase the pockets of excellence that are there, right? And we know that there's a lot of pockets of excellence that schools, systems, and higher ed institutions engage in. But without that kind of cohesive and comprehensive set of standards, the danger is then you have a lack of common language. You have silos happening in a way that perpetuates, sometimes, inequities. It perpetuates practices that are not always evidence-based. And so just the fact of having that kind of anchor, and we often call our standards, kind of, like, the anchor document, right? And instead of [a] roadmap, [it] provides a real, I think, sense of clarity for how to align then practices. 

Why it’s no longer an option but a necessity to build a collaborative leadership space

[13:09] We know the challenges right now of retaining high-quality teachers and principals. And so it's interesting that while educator pay is important, it's often the perception of the leader in the principal seat number one. Then the culture of collaboration support that's going to build into [it], so I think I am fortunate that I get to do some of that work with systems too, to help build their leadership team capacity. Because that's the other thing we're seeing is [that] the principal job has become, not to sound too informal, but ginormous, right? Like how large right now the principal role [is] and how many hats they wear. And I think that's another reason why it's no longer an option but a necessity to build a culture of collaborative inquiry and a culture of collaboration as a leader. Because if you think about the history of, like, operational leader, you know, books, boilers, and buses, that principals started with, to kind of, sole instruction leader and what that meant. And now it's really important to build a collaborative leadership space.

On bringing leaders together across systems through the Leadership Team Institute

[14:09] Monica: I think in some ways, particularly around the principal role, it also breaks down the sense of isolation that can be really overwhelming in schools, and particularly, like you said, as we continue to make roles more complex. And then, in addition, sort of, the context is becoming more complex.

[14:27] Paul: Yeah. And I think that's the other important piece that you touched upon that I think is a lever for state agencies, and that is as an agency that has the power to convene. Leaders coming together because of what you just said—the isolation, the sometimes silos and challenges, and how often, and we have several networks that we lead and run, including one that I help lead called the Leadership Team Institute that brings leaders together across systems for that very purpose, right? To convene and to help spread and share both practices and challenges.

• LearningForward.org
• Profile | Learning Forward
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Paul Katnik, Assistant Commissioner at Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, where he has been instrumental in coordinating the state model educator evaluation system.

Mónica and Paul discuss Paul’s role in the development and implementation of the Missouri Leadership Development System (MLDS) and the Missouri Teacher Development System (MTDS). Paul emphasizes the importance of a systemic approach to educator preparation, certification, and development, highlighting significant strides in teacher recruitment and retention. Paul also brings up the various challenges and successes of fostering statewide partnerships, using data to drive improvement, and continuously adapting to changing educational landscapes. 

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

The challenges that came with creating a leadership system.

[12:26] We have to keep reminding ourselves that for the user, for the principal, trying to navigate their way through a career in school leadership, they only know what they do and they interact with all these partners, and if we all come at them with different agendas and different language, it just makes it harder for them. And so we try to meld those together as much as we can while still honoring the integrity of all those partners and what they bring to the whole thing. And so the relationships have certainly been a challenging part of this. 

Data proves the lasting impact of MLDS on school leadership.

[19:04] Data says that our MLDS principals have retention rates 10 percentage points higher than the state's average and has for every year that it's been in full implementation. 20 percentage points higher than if you're a non-MLDS principal. That data tells me that we're doing something right in terms of [the] longevity of school leadership. As a part of our annual evaluations, we have interviewed teachers. We've interviewed superintendents. And to me, it's important to not only ask the user, "Is this valuable?" but then to ask the people who surround them to say, "Do you see the impact of MLDS on their leadership?" and to have 80 to 90% of teachers say, "Absolutely, I can see a different change in practice that they learn. They bring things that they've learned into our school that supports me, helps me be a better teacher, and, in fact, helps my students learn at higher levels." That tells me something when superintendents say, "I can see my principal turning into a better instructional leader.

Was blended funding the right call for MLDS?

[20:56] We've always attempted to do blended funding because we didn't want the loss of any one source to be the end of all of this work. And at times, like now, that maybe has been a good plan of attack to kind of do it that way. But every piece of funding then comes again with its own limitations and its own uses and whatever, and you have to navigate all of that too. But we've managed to put together, kind of, a blended funding thing. When we first started getting our funding together, we went to the 3% that was allowed through the new national education law, and we did the math, and we picked out about 40 superintendents in the state who would be losing a bigger share of their Title II A funds if we did the 3% set aside. And we went and visited them. And so I sat in the office with a bunch of superintendents, and I said, "If we move ahead with creating this system and we use these funds for that, your district is going to lose this much money, and I want to hear your opinion of that." And every superintendent we talked to said, "Go ahead and do it, but do it right."

• MLDS | Missouri Leadership Development System
• The Educator Growth Toolbox
• Profile on LinkedIn
• Social Profile on X

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dan Gordon, principal at EducationCounsel where he leads a variety of K-12 projects focused on advancing learning system approaches and supporting school districts to expand opportunities and accelerate improved outcomes for all students. 

Mónica and Dan discuss the evolving role of federal involvement in education under the current administration, including themes of reducing federal influence and focusing on leveraging the remaining capacities to advance specific priorities. Their conversation touches on challenges such as preemptive compliance and the importance of separating significant policy changes from media noise. Dan also highlights opportunities for institutions to rethink and recommit to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion initiatives amid policy shifts. The conversation ends on the optimistic point of the power of coalition building and sustained partnerships to protect and advance educational values.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

What is EducationCounsel and what work does it do?

[02:29] We're a mission-driven education consulting firm. We do early childhood and K-12 and higher ed. My focus tends to be more on the K-12, just given my background. And we do a lot of things. We do some strategy work. We do a lot of connecting of dots and bringing folks together.

Dan Gordon shares their biggest concern with misinterpreted signals and noise and its implications.

[09:53] We worry a lot about what we call preemptive compliance, and I think the biggest risk of the signal and, like, confusing the signal for the noise or not finding the signal in the noise is that the noise is scary and all encompassing and really dramatic. And the concern is that folks, because they're not able to or are struggling to find that signal, instead listen to the noise and it drives them to comply, to change things, to comply with what they think or are being told what the law is, or that the law has suddenly changed to be. And they're complying not when they're forced to because there's been an investigation and/or a court case or something that is really sort of called the question, and instead they're preemptively complying in advance.

Going beyond the headline is key to understanding the right time to comply.

[16:18] If you're not someone who's familiar with the way litigation unfolds, you might see a headline that says, Courts find illegal this thing or courts find legal this thing. And the truth is that a lot of those are early decisions, temporary decisions, preliminary decisions that don't get to the point of a final say about whether something was legal or illegal. And so it's the other way, is that, you know, you also have to make sure that institutional leaders don't see, oh wow, this court temporarily put a hold on this thing, so therefore, you know, it's illegal and I don't have to pay attention to it. Well, and they may have just temporarily done it for the next couple [of] days while they considered full arguments about it. Or maybe they changed it only for the people in that one place in Vermont. And that doesn't apply to us too. So, it goes both ways in terms of whether it's news that you find good because of where you stand or news that you find troubling because of where you stand. It's really important to kind of go behind the headline.      

• Education Counsel | Resources
• Education Counsel | Executive Actions Chart
• Education Counsel Profile
• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on BlueSky
• Social Profile on X