In the Lead with UCEA

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Zeke Perez, Assistant Policy Director at the Education Commission of the States (ECS). Zeke  tracks legislation related to statewide longitudinal data systems, school safety, and post-secondary campus safety. He's also done recent comparisons of state strategies to support the preparation and development of high-quality school leaders.

Mónica and Zeke discuss the importance of connecting different role groups and states to share information and best practices in education. They highlight the cyclical nature of educational challenges from past decades, and their conversation emphasizes the need for collaboration and innovation among and across states to address persistent issues more effectively. Tune in to hear how ECS supports leaders in its ‘weaver’ role.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Zeke discusses some of the most important state & local context factors that shape the work that he does with state policy makers. 

[06:42] We work on every issue under the sun, really. But recently, our steering committee came together and brainstormed a few policy priority areas that we'll be unveiling and working on more as the year goes on. But yeah, so we will primarily focus on those areas and see where we can proactively help states beyond that, you know, we're reacting to state needs, and like you said, the varying state contexts really impact how we're talking to any given state, right? We know that Wyoming maybe cares more about South Dakota or Montana than it does New York or California. You know, we just know that the different levels of funding, the different student populations, the different spread of schools across the state from urban to rural. We know that it all impacts what a state's looking for. And so while we won't advocate for any specific policy or tell states what to do, we'll connect them with other states that have the same populations, have the same type of funding challenges or opportunities, states that are working on the same issues, and we'll try to connect them so that they can work with like states to share the best information and share the approaches that they're all taking and learning from.

Recurring challenges emerging across states.

[11:10] I think one challenge consistent across states is the lack of experience that we've seen in those leadership roles. So, we've seen a study that shows that over 40% of principals working in their current schools have been there for three or fewer years. Right, and so, I think these pipelines help get individuals into school leadership positions earlier so that they can stay there longer and build that experience. But I think another way that we've seen states approach that is providing a lot more professional development and supporting teachers, regardless of experience or the type of school that we're in. I think we've seen that across a few different buckets. We've seen states tackle that broadly. So, for instance, Alabama developedtheir principal leadership development system that provides professional development and other supports to principals in their systems, just generally. We've also seen states look at a more targeted approach for schools and then a targeted approach for subjects. [12:23] So again, just a broad spectrum of how states are providing support to school leaders.

How ECS is weaving connections to make impactful changes

[22:54] One of the areas where we hope to weave states is, you know, they're each working on these different issues and making progress in their own ways and innovating in their own ways, but finding the opportunity to help them find those best practices and work across states and continue to build towards solving these problems that have been on their plates for a short time or  for decades. Just making sure that they can connect and grow and shape the best policy possible.

• In the Lead with UCEA with Mary Erina Driscoll  
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In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Paul Manna, Isabelle and Jerome E. Hyman Distinguished University Professor of Government at William & Mary. 

Mónica and Paul discuss Paul’s career focused on K-12 education, federalism, and policy reform. Paul shares his insights on how states act as educational policy actors and his recent work with the Wallace Foundation to support the preparation and development of high-quality principals. Their conversation also delves into the impact of state-level policies, the importance of leadership within education, and how educational institutions can better collaborate for effective policy implementation.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Engaging elected officials in conversations about supporting education leaders.

[05:41] The good news from the education policy [and] education leadership field is there's a lot of evidence that great principals also make differences in schools and in school districts and in the lives of children. And so, obviously, military leaders and business leaders, their jobs aren't identical to what principals do. There's differences. There's important differences, but some of these broad principles of leadership do cut across these arenas, and so I think having conversations with elected officials that remind them about those other contexts where there's parallels that's, in a way, could be a door opener for them to understand the import of this and why it's worth it to train up people and support people who are leading schools, just like we would want to have great people leading businesses, large or small, or leading troops, or whatever it might be. We need great people leading in schools.

Politicians sometimes gloss over the nuanced differences that exist within educational leadership.

[09:28]  I think even within education there could be a better appreciation for the varieties of leadership roles that there are in education, right. And I think state standards in some place, like, they've started to come around to this that it's not necessarily a great idea to just have general standards for leaders because the principal of the school has a different kind of job than the superintendent of the district, right? Or some other leader, like within a school, a teacher who's maybe a department head within a certain program area, or a leader who leads the assessment, part of a district role, or the nutrition part. Like, these are different roles. And so I think having an appreciation for that difference is important. And sometimes politicians, kind of, gloss over that, because they just think leadership is all the same, you know? But to your point, like, it isn't necessarily, and so helping them understand that maybe what you're expecting out of an assistant principal for licensing doesn't necessarily need to be the same thing as what you would expect out of a principal. And you'd want something even different or more for a superintendent, let's say.

Good policy entrepreneurs know how to communicate with policy makers.

[21:15] If you really have an interest in policy and getting involved in conversations to shape policy, then you should have some element of your work that gets your nose into the weeds of how policy is actually carried out. [21:24] Sometimes the worst impulse of faculty, and everybody's fallen prey to this at some point in their career, is that we think we've got these great ideas and these great answers, and then we show up in a room and we're speaking a language that nobody understands. 

• Developing Excellent School Principals to Advance Teaching and Learning Considerations for State Policy
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In the Lead with UCEA brings you pivotal conversations with people making an impact on educational leadership preparation, practice, and policy. We're back with season four of In the Lead with UCEA.

This season, we will be talking with leaders from some professional organizations and UCEA partners who develop, track, and advocate for educational policy work at the state and national levels. We also learn how we can focus our efforts at the state level to advocate collectively for educational leaders, school communities, and children. Hear from our exciting lineup of guests about how their organizations are working to improve educational leadership across states and contexts. 

Join our conversation. Tune into the first episodes releasing soon and check out our past episodes. Subscribe to In the Lead with UCEA wherever you listen to podcasts.

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Mark Anthony Gooden, Christian A. Johnson Endeavor Professor of Education Leadership, Teachers College, Columbia University, about the report he was lead author on, ‘A Culturally Responsive School Leadership Approach to Developing Equity-Centered Principals.’ and culturally responsive school leadership. Mark explores the origins, development, and impact of his report focused on anti-racist leadership and equitable educational environments.

Mónica and Mark discuss critical consciousness, inclusive pedagogy, and the importance of principal preparation programs, underscoring the necessity of continuous, collaborative partnerships between universities and school districts. Mark shares how Dallas and Houston ISDs demonstrate the benefits of such partnerships, emphasizing leadership supervision, instructional leadership, and pre-service principal preparation. They also address systemic issues, such as transportation inequities affecting Latinx students, advocating for consistent equity-oriented practices and vigilant support for educational leaders at all levels.

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In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Having critical consciousness is having an understanding of historical oppression

[08:44] I tend to think about starting this conversation around an interrogation of race, because it is so interwoven into our systems, it's interwoven into our personal ways, our personal mental models or personal paradigms, but also, in our systems paradigms or our collective paradigms. So, we have to start with that critical consciousness of the leader. Like, how do they think about these systems? Do they think about these multiple levels in terms of oppression? And then, if they do, then certainly, they're going to be looking at the school systems, for instance, moving right into instructional leadership. How do they, not necessarily go around and work with their teachers and say, “I'm going to show you how to be culturally responsive,” but we would think that, with a critical consciousness lens, they can go into a classroom and see if there are inequities happening, or if there are students who are not getting access to a curriculum that represents them, if there's a curriculum that doesn't present them in a favorable light, for instance, or at all. So often, right now, we're seeing more with things like the 1619 curriculum coming out on board over the last few years, but so often, complete cultures have been left out. Or oftentimes, they haven't been left out, they’ve been misrepresented.They've been flattened, and so that they're one-dimensional. And so we said, it needs to be that they're supporting cultural-responsive pedagogy. That was very, very important.

The necessity of rich research-practice partnerships to strengthen the comprehensive, aligned principal pipelines.  

[16:01] Some of the districts around the country have started to embrace these research-practice partnerships, right? And when we think about that, Wallace started to strongly encourage these conversations between university prep programs and districts. So, we now can theorize forward a little bit more about equity is in there, and it's, sort of, woven in between, and those folks who are hiring and selecting principals, school districts, are now looking back and saying to the university prep program, “Yes, we want the equity piece. We want to know how you're doing it,” but then I'll go a step further and say, the people that I started with, the supervisors of those principals, now have a, kind of, three-way conversation and a piece there that we can get excited about because it's more connected, it's fertile ground for, really, creating a rich research-practice partnership. And it's also something that we can have equity really nicely interwoven throughout. So, that was something that we were excited about. I mean, we didn't articulate that as well as I've just said, because obviously, I've had a couple of years since, but, obviously, one of the things that we were saying really pushed that thought directly forward to say, this is what should be in there and this is how we should be thinking about it.

Is there a leveraging point to impact the whole pipeline?

[22:32] I think high-quality principal preparation seems to be the biggest one if it is tightly connected to the other ones. I think we have to move away from that independent thing, because I think if you have high-quality principal preparation and you have a weak set of standards, it's going to be hard for our colleagues who are less comfortable doing this work to look at standards and see how can I be more equity-focused? It doesn't even say that in the standards, right? And even if it does, it's still like, “That's probably not speaking to me.” So, it has to be tightly connected. 

• A Culturally Responsive School Leadership Approach to Developing Equity-Centered Principals

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In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Marjorie Wechsler, the Principal Research Manager at the Learning Policy Institute, about the report she was co-author on, ‘Developing Effective Principals: What Kind of Learning Matters?,’ and the importance of high-quality learning for principal preparation and professional development. 

With over 30 years of experience in policy research, Marjorie details the genesis and key findings of a report sponsored by the Wallace Foundation that explores features of effective principal preparation, access to learning opportunities, and the role of policy at the state and local levels. Marjorie emphasizes the importance of applied learning, mentorship, and district partnerships in shaping competent school leaders who can drive student success.

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In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Having cohorts and networks can reduce the isolation that many principals face.

[12:06] Being a principal is not an easy job. Having someone to say, “You've got this. Yes, you struggled on that, but look at how well you did on that.” And just providing alternative perspectives. In the same way that mentors and experts are important, so is just having a cohort of other principals. Being in a cohort and in a principal preparation program or having a network of principals can really help principal learning, having professionals learn and grow together. Having a space to ask questions, admit challenges, learn from others who might have been through whatever it is that you're facing, [and] try out ideas, and also, cohorts. Particularly, for practicing principals, cohorts and networks can reduce that isolation that many principals may face.

Why having a good relationship between preparation programs and the district is very important.

[14:39] Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez: In order to have authentic experiences in a preparation program, you have to have an authentic relationship with the district. And it needs to be in alignment in what is a high-quality learning opportunity, as well as what is high-quality practice. And so, it makes a lot of sense that you have to align the program, the relationships, and the opportunities in order for aspiring principals to go through a really enriching experience. I think that's really important. And I think, as a result of that, we saw a lot more district partnerships, some district preparation research, partnerships with districts. But the heightened need and understanding of and to use your language, we're still in the same ecosystem here, right? So, we need to be in communication with each other.

[15:26] Marjorie Wechsler : Yeah. Absolutely. And also, having those strong relationships allows the districts to know that the principals who are coming out of these programs understand the district and it allows them to say, “Hey, this is really important. Here are our students. And we have found that our most successful principals know these areas very well.” So, both the district and the programs share an investment, a motivation for developing these principles as well as they can be developed.

Marjorie talks about some of the recommendations coming out of the research

[22:53]: Having paid internships or residencies can open up really good learning opportunities

for some of the most promising candidates, and not just those who can afford a program. This is just one of several examples, but North Carolina has a state Principal Fellows Program, which provides scholarships to individuals who are looking to get their master's degree in school administration and work as a North Carolina public schools. The first year, they get a stipend, which pays for tuition and books and living expenses while they can study full time. And then the second year, they receive the salary of a first-year assistant principal, as well as an educational stipend, so they can do that full-year internship, they can afford it, working under the mentorship of a veteran principal. And in return, they work four years in a North Carolina public school. So it's win-win: high-quality preparation, and then the public schools have this well-developed principal.

• Developing Effective Principals: What Kind of Learning Matters?

• Profile at Learning Policy Institute

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Ellen Goldring, Patricia and Rodes Hart Professor of Educational Leadership in the Department of Leadership, Policy and Organizations and Vice Dean from Peabody College Of Education and Human Development at Vanderbilt University, about the report she was lead author on, ‘The Role of Assistant Principals Evidence and Insights for Advancing School Leadership,’ and in what ways the AP role could make more powerful contributions to educational equity, school improvement, and principal effectiveness. 

They discuss the increasing number of AP roles and the growing complexity of their roles in educational leadership. Ellen explores the shift from their traditional image as disciplinarian to their important roles in community building and leadership development. The discussion also delves into disparities in career advancement for assistant principals, particularly among educators of color and women, and underscores the importance of mentorship and equitable opportunities for leadership progression. 

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In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Data uncovers the dramatic increase of assistant principals, expanding sixfold compared to principals.

I think the first thing that was just really, really surprising, and we had no idea using national data was the extent to which the number of APs has increased over time.  I don't think anyone anticipated that, or certainly we didn't. So the first thing that we found is, Wow, this is a role that's being implemented in schools more and more, and in fact, we estimated that the APs have grown more than six times as fast as the number of principals, from 1990 up to 2015. 

Has the role of assistant principals changed over time?

09:36 The literature review suggests that [the roles has] probably overemphasized that assistant principals do student discipline, because as we know, student discipline doesn't happen in a vacuum. And I think, in many ways, it is much more related to the instruction of the teacher and how the teacher is being mentored and supported to engage students in teaching and learning and how the students are being addressed in the classroom. So, separating out student discipline as separate from mentoring of teaching and coaching of teaching is a little problematic. One of the things we talk about a lot in the report is, how are we conceptualizing roles? And how do we think about roles when there's so much interconnection in practice? And we might want to think about this a little bit differently.

The misalignment of feedback and evaluation for assistant principals.

19:47 Most states evaluate assistant principals on the same rubric as principals, and how that's handled is very variable. Some districts say, “Well, if you're assistant principals, you can't be exemplary because that's only for principals.” So you're starting out and you get to a certain threshold. Others include the assistant principal in the principal's overall school evaluation. It depends on the rubric. And what is often the case, though, in both of these scenarios is how misaligned  feedback and evaluation is for assistant principals to the work that they're actually doing. So, why am I bringing that up now? I think there's also very few states, and we talked about this in the report, that have differential licensing and differential certification processes. A few do. We have no research on whether these differential certification processes or licensees somehow bring a different outcome or more people into the profession or it's developmental approach. That's a whole area that needs work. But what I think is important is that we consider the unique roles and responsibilities that assistant principals do that are distinct from principals, and this gets into the pipeline work.

Recommended Resources:

• The Role of Assistant Principals

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Peabody College of Education and Human Development at Vanderbilt University

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Jason Grissom, Patricia and Rodes Hart Professor of Public Policy and Education at Vanderbilt University's Peabody College and Faculty Director of the Tennessee Education Research Alliance, about the report he was lead author on, ‘How Principals Affect Students and Schools,’ a comprehensive synthesis of two decades of research commissioned by the Wallace Foundation. 

Jason discusses how his research underscores the significant impact of principals on student learning outcomes and educational equity. Their discussion also delves into the importance of an equity lens in school leadership, essential skills for principals, and the future directions for research in this field.

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In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Four key behaviors of effective principals according to the research

[05:09] We spent months and months culling through these studies and trying to come up with what were the studies that we could really lean on in terms of making that connection and what could we learn from them about. Those domains of behavior that seemed to be linked most clearly to better outcomes for kids. And so we identified four of those. And so we call those engaging and instructionally focused interactions with teachers, building a productive climate, facilitating collaboration and professional learning community, and managing personnel and resources strategically.

The equity lens opens an opportunity for self-reflection

[11:37] The equity lens idea is the idea that principals should be driving their schools towards more equitable outcomes for marginalized and non-marginalized students in their schools, which means that their work in these 4 domains of practice have to reflect that priority. And we liked the metaphor of the lens because it emphasizes a perspective on the broader work. So, as a principal, I'm working to build a productive climate for my building. But that means a productive climate for all kids, right? Regardless of background. So, how am I ensuring that students, regardless of who they are and what they come to school with and what their identity characteristics are and so forth, how are all of those kids experiencing those levels of trust and care and self efficacy, you know, those goals that I have for a productive climate? And so that's the lens idea. So I'm all kids in mind, climate is not just the typical kid or the average kid or the kid who I see the most often. It's a productive climate for kids regardless of their background.

Leadership expectations are often set beyond realistic human capabilities.

[16:20] I think a challenge we have in the field of educational leadership is that the standards that we set for what we expect of school leaders is very high. Sometimes I think we're expecting superhumans, not real humans. And if standards are aspirational, right? And some part of what you do when you write down a standard is you're giving a person something to aspire to. And I think that's important. I do think, though, that when you're having to train and prepare on so many different dimensions at once, that it can lead that preparation for the candidate even to feel unfocused. Like, there's so much I have to learn and I don't understand on what timeline I need each one of these things. And so, what I hope our results can do bring a little bit of focus to where we can start as we're trying to provide people with a set of skills and capacities that they need to enter leadership. And be as successful as they can be right at the beginning of the career.

• How Principals Affect Students and Schools

• JasonGrissom.com
• Faculty Profile at Vanderbilt
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In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Rotunda Floyd-Cooper, Vice President of Education Leadership at The Wallace Foundation, about The Wallace Foundation’s Equity Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI), which aims to develop equity-oriented school principals across eight diverse school districts in the U.S. 

The discussion explores the initiative's impact on educational leadership and practices, the critical role of community and university partnerships, and the unique, context-specific approaches to defining and implementing equity in education. Rotunda also shares insights into the continuous improvement processes and upcoming research findings that are expected in the future.

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How ECPI districts and their university partners ensure high-quality, equity-centered principal preparation programs.

12:36: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] How are the ECPI districts working with their university partners to make sure that their principal preparation is high-quality, equity-centered, and, sort of, building on strengths of the community?

12:52: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah, that’s a great question. What's been fantastic to see in these partnerships with districts and these institutions of higher education is, just as we know that the districts want pools of principal candidates who are well-prepared to meet the real-world demands of the role. We also know that the university partners strive to offer the highest quality and most relevant principal preparation programs to attract candidates and to meet the needs of the districts that they serve. That's the reason that the partnerships between the universities and the local school communities are so essential. Each district is either developing or revising leader standards and then working closely with their university partners to ensure that those standards will guide the pre-service work and preparation that the university partner offers. And in some cases, for example, in Columbus City Schools, in partnership with the Ohio State University, there's even collaboration on the development and support of in-service principals. These partnerships, in some cases, even result in more strategic approaches to preparation for assistant principals within the district.

The Wallace Foundation recognizes each district’s unique definition of equity.

07:59: [Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] While we do, at Wallace, think about equity in a very specific way, The Wallace Foundation is not imposing a singular definition of equity on the districts that we are partnering with. Each district has actually defined its own vision for equity with input from the community. And they are designing their pipelines with the vision for equity embedded that they have collaborated with their communities around. And what's really exciting about the work is that, in partnership with the stakeholders that I mentioned previously, they are iterating on what they learn over time about the needs of principals, along with the interests of their communities, and they leverage the deep knowledge of some of the other partners, like state agencies, as well as members of higher ed communities, to engage in this continuous improvement process.

08:51: [Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] And just hearing you say that now also makes me think that, actually, part of the approach, if that's the right word of the foundation, is to recognize that issues of equity have to be locally driven. And so, that's actually part of the equity definition, right? It's not something that can't be imposed, but rather locally driven, locally addressed in local leadership.

[Rotunda Floyd-Cooper] Yeah. I think that's a fantastic point.

Rotunda shares insights and hopes for sustaining Wallace leadership initiatives

19:10 Through a series of independent research studies, we're hoping to learn whether large districts, in partnership with all of the stakeholders that we've spent this time talking about, can create principal pipelines that are capable of producing and supporting leaders who can advance equity within their districts. We're also hoping, though, to be able to understand how local history and district culture shape approaches to equity. And more specifically, the researchers who are engaged in this component of a study will be able to document the cultural, historical, and organizational factors that district partnership teams have to grapple with as they develop visions, goals, and plans for equity-centered principal pipelines.

• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

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In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Bronwyn Bevan, Vice President of Research at The Wallace Foundation, about the foundation's learning strategies and research initiatives. Dr. Bevan elaborates on the foundation's focus areas: educational leadership, youth development, and the arts, highlighting their long-term goals or 'North Stars' for each area. 

She also shares insights into the foundation's current initiatives, such as developing equity-centered leaders in education and supporting arts organizations founded by communities of color. Mónica and Bronwyn explore the interconnectivity of these focus areas and the strategies adopted by the foundation to innovate and document impactful change. Bronwyn also reflects on her own professional background and how it has influenced her work at the foundation.

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Dr. Bronwyn Bevan reflects on her professional background and how it has influenced her work at the foundation

I think, in my role, although all of our work is done collaboratively, of course, we all bring our own, sort of, experience and expertise to the conversation. And I think we're really trying to think differently about what kinds of research approaches are most suited for the kinds of questions that we're asking. We've moved, especially in the art space, but in other places as well, moved into more of an exploratory mode. So, it's not necessarily always hypothesis testing and those kinds of studies. Sometimes, that is what we're doing. But so, I think, it's just bringing a broader approach. I also have a background and have an edited book that I wrote with Bill Penuel on research-practice partnerships. And so, just thinking about how research and practice are intertwined can benefit one another, not putting up firewalls, thinking about evidence-based decision-making, and also, really paying attention to when the context just means that things have to be done differently than what research might say at that moment is the thing. So, bringing, maybe, that nuance to the conversation is one of the ways I think I can, I'm trying to make a contribution here.

The Wallace Foundation intends to make a broader impact through its philanthropic strategy. 

[Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez] 07:16: The foundation has a real commitment to a specific kind of approach that guides the work that you do with communities, that guides the research. And so, if you could explain a little bit about that.

[Dr. Bronwyn Bevan] 07:28: Yeah. We call it our philanthropic strategy. Basically, we're a midsize foundation, so it's part of an effort to make a greater contribution with, sort of, the limited funds that we have. The basic idea is that, in each of these three areas where we have these long-term sustained conversations and sets of colleagues out in the field that are both organizations doing the work and also professional associations supporting the work that school districts are doing, our youth development programs or the arts are doing, we stay in dialogue with them. We also stay in touch with the research and reference research, and essentially, through that dialogue and conversation, identify key pressing problems of practice, and from there, essentially, identify or invite — and sometimes these are through open calls and sometimes they're through conversations — other districts, other organizations that have a shared interest in that problem.

Dr. Brevan shares some of the important questions that can move our understanding on school leadership, educational leadership, and community building.

[Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez]: What do you think are the next set of important questions that can move our understanding of school leadership, educational leadership, community building, and strengthening forward?

[Dr. Bronwyn Bevan]: One of the things Wallace… pretty much across the board, certainly, in ed leadership and in youth development, is really think about the system level of things. I mean, in part, the arts ecosystem is just a little more complicated than, you know, not oftentimes, like, school districts or after-school networks. And we think about what kind of levers for change exist in the system. And one of the things we've been observing, first of all, in ECPI (​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative), to some degree, and also in other places, is we had funded a number of years ago, or, like, three years ago, Learning Policy Institute, Linda Darling-Hammond and Marjorie Wechsler and their colleagues produced a study report looking at professional preparation and learning, you know, finding that there's just not a lot on professional development for sitting principals. And their report surfaced a number of questions about that. And we're seeing that play out, obviously there's a lot of support in the induction years, but what kinds of support are important when in a career? What kind of context? Those kinds of things are questions we're thinking about.

• Connecting Research and Practice for Educational Improvement: Ethical and Equitable Approaches
• University Principal Preparation Initiative (UPPI)
• ​​​​Equity-Centered Pipeline Initiative (ECPI)

• Wallace Foundation Profile
• LinkedIn   
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In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Dr. Mary Erina Driscoll, Vice President of Academic Affairs at Regis College, and president of UCEA from 1999-2000, about how her experiences in Catholic education and interactions with mentors shaped her dissertation on schools as communities. Mary provides a deep dive into UCEA's evolution from an exclusive club of doctoral institutions to an inclusive organization championing diversity and collaboration.

Leadership in education is a complex dance of balancing resources, advocacy, and communication. Drawing from her extensive experience as a dean and provost, Mary offers invaluable insights into the dynamics of leadership and partnership within higher education and its interplay with K-12 education. This episode is packed with practical advice and reflections. Listen in and gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and rewards of educational leadership and policy, all while celebrating the rich history and ongoing impact of UCEA.

In the Lead with UCEA is produced by University FM.

Discussing the challenges within the higher education

When I went to City College, which is a great place, but, interesting in terms of the politics, and people would say to me, "Well, you're in leadership," and especially when I went into the provost position, "What books have you read?” And I said, "Wolf Hall." And the reason I said that is because Thomas Cromwell, who's a very difficult character in that, not anybody that you would want to necessarily emulate in terms of his particular values but one of the leadership behaviors he engages in is he looks at the people that he's working with, and he tries to figure out in a given situation what is it that they want, what is it that's important to them, not what would he want if he were in that situation. And it's amazing when you look at some leaders. They can't make that shift. And I think, as a dean of education, or as a professor that was working in partnership when I was at NYU, again, with my colleagues with districts, it was very important to say, "What's important to the people that I'm working with in K-12? What are they looking for out of this relationship? And what can we provide there, not what makes sense for us to do?" 

On being vocal about the value and importance of education

It is important for our scholarly community to be vocal about the value and importance of education, period, and increasingly higher education. It's not just because it's our bread and butter. We, sort of, self-select into it because we like it or we see its value or whatever, but in most cases, it's an exceptional case where that's driven by, boy, this is a great economic place to be in. I mean, how many of our professors are teaching either master's students or doctoral students that are making two, three times their salaries as district administrators. They deserve it, but I think we have to talk about, so, what is it that this community allows us to do? What are the benefits, not just to us personally, but benefits that accrue in helping to elevate the scholar practitioner within that K-12 community? We don't do a great job of supporting people once they finish their degrees, right? We're, sort of, not set up to do that. When we're able to bring together policy makers, scholar practitioners, professors, graduate students into one space, it can be really extraordinary.

One of the greatest things UCEA has done as a guild organization

One of the things that UCEA has done as a guild organization, which I think is great, is provide opportunities for you to work with other people on joint projects. And even smart people have to learn how to do that well. As director, you have to learn how to work with an executive committee. You have to learn how to work with a board. You have to learn how to deal with the plenum. If you're reviewing something, you have to understand what does a good review look like? What's actually going to be helpful for somebody? If you're doing a joint project or planning a program, how do you get as many voices at the table as you can and have a coherent message? And how do you articulate that? And how do you defend it? And how do you listen to what people think about it? I mean, they're good life skills.

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