Inclusive Designers Podcast

Society is naturally aging, living better, and longer. By 2030 there will be an unprecedented number of seniors, more than ever before. This means more people living at home for as long as possible is a viable option. ‘Aging-in-Place’ is defined as “the ability to live in one’s own home and community safely, independently, and comfortably”… but just what do you need to do to make that happen? In what we expect to be the first in a series, Inclusive Designers Podcast explores the basics of Aging-in-Place from the view of the Architect, Designer and Contractor.

Topics in this episode include: Most popular Aging-In-Place remodels, technology and trends, and just how much will things cost?

Guests:

Deborah Pierce (Architect): Deb is an award-winning architect and author of The Accessible Home, a guide to designing homes for people of all ages and abilities. She is AIA, (American Institute of Architects), and CAPS certified, which means she is an Aging-in-Place specialist. Her architectural practice focuses on remodeling projects for people seeking to age in place – providing them with greater comfort, safety, and independence. Deb’s clients also include people living with a wide variety of disabling conditions… including sensory, cognitive, and physical impairments. She has written articles, spoken at conferences and leads accessibility workshops around the country on the many ways that architectural modifications can tailor the home to fit each clients’ unique needs and lifestyles.

Contact info: Deb Pierce Architects; [email protected]

Brian Harvey (Contractor): Brian is NAHB, National Association of Home Builders, Certified Aging-In-Place Specialist, or CAPS, who owns ‘Harvey Home Modifications’, a building and remodeling business. His company focuses on modifying homes to cater to an individuals’ particular limitations. They do everything from grab bars to new construction, and are well versed in bathrooms, in-law-suites, and universally designed floor plans. Brian and his team of project managers and skilled laborers work closely with both families and non-profit organizations to help people live independently in their own homes.

Contact info: Harvey Home Modifications; [email protected]

References:

Designing for: Aging in Place

(Music / Intro)

Janet: In this series we will be discussing specific examples of design techniques that make a positive difference for people living with certain human conditions.

Carolyn: The more a designer understands the client and or the community the more effective and respectful the design will be.

(music up, then lower)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designers Podcast, I’m your host Janet Roche.

Carolyn: And I’m your moderator, Carolyn Robbins. It’s a fact that today’s population is living longer, and most people want to stay in their own homes as long as possible. The definition of ‘Aging-in-Place’ is “the ability to live in one’s own home and community safely, independently, and comfortably”… but just what do you need to do to make that happen?

Janet:  In this episode, we’ll take a look at the process and the design decisions that can be implemented for Aging-in-Place, and to ensure that the home fits the specific needs of all the individuals living there…

Carolyn: Before we get to today’s discussion, let me tell you a little bit about our guests and their qualifications:

– Deborah Pierce is an award-winning architect and author of The Accessible Home, a guide to designing homes for people of all ages and abilities. She is AIA, (American institute of architects), and CAPS certified, which means she is an Aging-in-Place Specialist.Her architectural practice focuses on remodeling projects for people seeking to age in place – providing them with greater comfort, safety, and independence. Deb’s clients also include people living with a wide variety of disabling conditions… including sensory, cognitive, and physical impairments. She has written articles, spoken at conferences and leads accessibility workshops around the country on the many ways that architectural modifications can tailor the home to fit each clients’ unique needs and lifestyles.

– And today we also have Brian Harvey… Brian is NAHB, National Association of Home Builders, Certified Aging-In-Place Specialist, or CAPS, who owns ‘Harvey Home Modifications’, a building and remodeling business. His company focuses on modifying homes to cater to an individuals’ particular limitations. They do everything from grab bars to new construction, and are well versed in bathrooms, in-law-suites, and universally designed floorplans. Brian and his team of project managers and skilled laborers work closely with both families and non-profit organizations to help people live independently in their own homes.

Janet: This is also my area of expertise. Like Deb and Brian, I am a Certified Aging-in-Place Specialist. In today’s episode, we discuss how to design for Aging-in-Place and other comorbidities, which are the simultaneous presence of two or more chronic diseases or conditions in a patient. We examine the best designs and modifications for Aging-in-Place from the perspective of an architect, a designer and a contractor…

(Music – Transition to Interview)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designer’s podcast. Today, our guests include architect Deborah Pierce and contractor Brian Harvey, and, of course myself Janet Roche as the designer. And we’ll be talking today about Aging-in-Place. Well, thank you both so much for, for joining me today. Deborah, why don’t we start with you, why don’t you tell us what your definition is of Aging-in-Place…

Deborah: Making a home that’s senior friendly, that has features that make it easier to get around if someone has difficulty with their legs or with breathing or with the shoulders, that makes it easy to see if there are any difficulties with vision or hearing. It’s really sensitively designed residence or environment for people with all the kinds of things that can happen with aging. And just briefly, I’d like to say that we don’t all know what will happen when we get older. We don’t know what we will have. And so really sensitive design that works for a variety of disabilities and conditions is what an Aging-in-Place environment is.

Janet: Right. And it really does depend on the person. And obviously, as we well know, everybody’s individual journey towards aging and Aging-in-Place is very different. And Brian, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you think Aging-in-Place is from your perspective as a contractor.

Brian: Yeah, sure, so, my perspective is a bit unique. Mine is very much a family business. My father and mother have been caregivers for most of their lives. And my father, became a handyman, strictly for seniors. I joined him some time ago and was another set of hands. And as our capabilities grew, so did what we were able to accomplish. And the need for Aging-in- Place is enormous. And to me, really Aging-in-Place means, the want to stay at home or to stay at a particular residence. To ‘Age-in-Place’ is kind of a newer term that you’re hearing a lot today.

Janet: Right. And as the population has been aging and as we as we all know here in this particular room, 2030 will have the most seniors, most people over the age of 65 in the history of the world. So, this is a very important topic to talk about. Just as a little side note, I got a chance to meet your parents and what you guys do there with your particular type of brand of construction is really kind of terrific.

Brian: Thank you. Yeah, it’s definitely a labor of love for us.

Janet: Yeah. So, yeah…

Deborah: I think the quick answer to what is ‘Aging-in-Place’ is staying put.

Janet: I mean, that’s ultimately the bottom line and that’s the goal. And so, in this particular program today, we really want to talk about sort of the basics. So why don’t we start also talking just a little bit about what are some of the comorbidities. We’re all aging, right, but everybody has some sort of comorbidity, whether it’s some sort of a problem with their eyesight or maybe a stroke has left them slightly paralyzed. What kind of comorbidities are you guys seeing with Aging-in-Place, because as we well know, that aging is not in a vacuum… Deborah, do you want to start?

Deborah: It’s also not in a linear pattern. And so, aging, as well as life in general, is a time when different things can happen to a person’s body, right. We can have trouble walking around and have trouble hearing at the same time. People can have multiple conditions. And if it’s not one person having multiple conditions, it’s the people that share the home or it’s the people that visit. And so, good Aging-in-Place is designed with the needs of a variety of conditions that people may have because it needs to accommodate all of us. I think it’s important to mention that people go out less when they get older and they’re more socializing at home and more spending time at home. So, it’s really important to make sure that the home is really, really a haven. And that’s a, it’s accessible, it’s easy to use, it’s comfortable, it’s safe, it feels cozy. It’s just, it accommodates your hobbies. So, I think it’s important to be looking not just at the disabilities, but also the abilities and how can we live well.

Janet: Right. And that there’s other people in the house and that would be additional comorbidities besides just maybe what somebody who is getting older has.

Deborah: 17-percent of the population, I hear, has a hearing loss and only 25-percent of those people use hearing aids. So that’s a pretty common condition of aging. People also frequently have cardiovascular problems that can make it difficult to climb stairs, for example, or walk long distances without stopping to rest. Many people won’t be in wheelchairs, but people may be using walkers or canes or some kind of assistive device, for mobility. People will also often be using, having special medications and perhaps have some procedures regarding personal care, personal hygiene that will require maybe staying longer in the bathroom…

Janet: Right, we also talk about in this particular profession and also within the medical profession, we use the term ‘Activities of Daily Living’ right, so ADLs. And that’s a little bit about what you’re talking about. So, Brian … anything that you would like to add about the comorbidities that you’re seeing within Aging-in-Place?

Brian: Sure. I think every individual’s needs, every couple’s needs are completely unique. And as Deb can tell you better than I have, or I can, is that the ADA or AAB specs that you see on a piece of paper aren’t necessarily what’s going to work for someone to age in place, or when you’re talking about comorbidities, that particular need.

Deborah: There are several regulations that govern buildings to make them accessible for people who have disabilities. The ADA is a regulation that came out in the federal level in 1991 and it requires that public buildings be accessible. And that means wheelchair accessible generally. Then the state has a separate regulation called the Architectural Access Board regulations, and we call it AAB or MAAB, for Massachusetts. The ADA is enforced through the courts. So, if a building is not accessible— a library or a police station or a public building— then people bring a suit with the legal system against that building and the owners need to make upgrades. The AAB on the other hand, is enforced through the permitting process. And if a building needs to be conforming with the AAB, usually a public building, not a private residence, then in order to get a building permit, certain modifications need to be included in that project. Now people can be confused because ADA is used frequently to just describe something that’s accessible, that’s usable by people with disabilities. And so, you’ll see in a, in a sink catalog, for example, it’ll say ADA compliant, or an ADA sink or an ADA light switch or ADA appliances. And it’s a catch-all term now, I think, for something that’s user friendly when someone has some kind of limitations.

Janet: Right, yeah, that’s kind of a fascinating topic in itself. But when we talk about ‘Aging-in-Place’ for somebody’s residential home, though, we don’t need to apply those particular…

Deborah: We’re not required to conform to either of those codes for private residences, for single family residences. But I do find that they’re a useful guideline. (Janet: Agreed). So, it’s very helpful to just look at and then see what kind of dimensions, what kind of clearances. They’ve got ideas like keep some distance beside a door on the hinge side so that if a person needs to open the door and pull out of the way while the door is opening in their wheelchair, then these clearances will give them maneuvering space.

Janet: Brian, you want to add to that?

Brian: Yeah. I think that a lot of times what I see is that people are looking out for each other. Particularly couples. So, you know, the husband will say, well, you know, my wife needs this and, and that, and we definitely can’t have a tub. But then, he’s neglecting his own needs. And a lot of the times the caregivers actually has greater needs than the person that they’re describing. So that’s something to consider, too. And when you bring in a professional like any of us, they should pick up on those cues and always ask, “OK, well, what about what about you?” And get, it’s definitely important to get both people’s opinions and wants and needs. I find it helpful to create a list and then just reiterate it back to the family before I actually do any of the work.

Janet: Right.

Deborah: Interestingly, I was consulting with another architect on a multi-family housing renovation project and there was something like 80 apartment units in this building and it was assumed that we needed to meet the code, which is 5 percent of people with wheelchairs and 10 percent of units had to be adaptable, easily adaptable. And in speaking to the managers about the conditions that people had, just about everybody’s got something… so and so has got Meals on Wheels, they can’t cook. Somebody else has dialysis. Somebody else is using a walker now, and somebody else has got shoulder problems and knee problems and just had surgery on her hip. And, and so I think we really, this is so important because these are all facts of life.

Janet: It is, it’s so true. And, it’s actually, it brings up another episode, at some point we were going to go and look into doing, which is ‘universal design’ versus ‘individual design’… and what does that mean. Because universal, for those that don’t know, it’s a set of principles and it is the idea that it fits everybody. But to your point, how does one do that if somebody has a very specific types of, types of conditions that really need to be addressed. And so, you know, both worlds can live together. But it’s interesting how like separated they are, I think, in designers’ minds.

Deborah: Yeah, I’d like to say that in the last year I’ve had a couple of projects where we’ve added a second bathroom into a pantry and brought the laundry out of the basement and put it into a closet in one of the bedrooms or near the bathroom. And I think those are great ideas and they’ll really work in most houses. We’ve also frequently put an extra room on the first floor that can serve as a bedroom, but in the, but at the moment, it’s perhaps used as a living room or dining room or study. But if you have a full bathroom on the first floor and a sleeping space, then you’ve got an accessible home…

Janet: Right. Yeah. That’s all it takes sometimes. Right. And you can still have a beautiful home. Why don’t we then start talking about, Brian why don’t you start, when do we call a contractor and then Deborah, maybe you could talk about when we call an architect…

Brian: Sure. So unfortunately, the calls are never made or not often made when they should be…

Janet: They’re usually called under distress and we’re, we’re in a bit of a panic, right, and Dad’s coming home; Mom’s coming home; Grandma’s coming home and we’ve got three weeks to get our act together.

Brian: Yeah, that’s probably 75-percent of the calls I get. And it’s unfortunate because when you start to think about the level of modification that need to be made for a lot of instances, especially for those coming out of a long- or short-term rehabilitation, then you start to think about the building process, the design, the permitting and you’re talking months before commencing a project like that. And a lot of families have a need for it more immediately. So, I would say, well before things become or come to a head and become a real issue, someone like Deborah should be consulted and you should be considering these modifications before you need them…

Janet: …before you need them. It’s such an important point. Thank you, Brian, for bringing that up. I mean, it’s something that, you know, I think, Deborah, you can probably also agree as well, we get, like you said, we get called in, you know, sort of at the, like this panic stage.

Brian: Sure. And the unfortunate side of how it’s typically handled too late, or just very late, is that we see a lot of kind of one off projects, like if someone’s coming home from rehab, the first thing is, well, how do we get them into the house and into their room and how will we bathe them. So, bathrooms and entrances to the home become the primary projects, but the person then kind of feels trapped in the home because now they cannot use the kitchen, they can’t get to the second floor, they can’t get to a sunroom or place.

Janet: … a favorite sunroom, right. So, Deborah I saw you nodding, has that been your experience as well?

Deborah: Yeah, I think the bathroom and the entrance are the really critical projects that you have to, you can’t really manage in your home if you don’t have a usable bathroom and a usable entrance. And there are other peripheral projects that are usually done at the same time, widening doorways, sometimes I’ll relocate doors across a hall so that it’s easier to navigate instead of turning corners, particularly if someone has a mobility device. Kitchens. Yeah, it’s really important to be able to at least find a place where someone can get a snack, feel a little independence. Help out in the kitchen. There are children that have disabilities, or a person is coming home from the hospital and they expect that they’ll have assistance most of the time. We really want to promote independence and dignity and allow people to do as much as they can by themselves.

Janet: It’s so true and I think that you hit on a really good point with that, it’s cheaper to stay at the house. And so, you know, if we can give them some sort of independence and we can provide this type of environment, I think that seniors end up thriving better, too. And I think that that also makes you a healthier individual. And depression is probably something else that’s probably a lot less if you’re still living at home.

Brian: And here’s a scenario, too. I mean, my, my mother, having been a caregiver her whole life, you know, picture someone coming home from a rehab and their adult children have decided it’s time to get a caregiver for mom. And a caregiver comes to the house. But it hasn’t been, the home hasn’t been prepped to a point where they can access the kitchen or the dining room. And then as the caregiver is preparing food, mom is, you know, plopped down in the living room watching TV when maybe she could be reciting a recipe to her caregiver, socializing with them, interacting with the caregiver, but also the companion. So, there’s important pieces to it like that. Accessibility is important. But, you know, being able to use your home and being able to interact with the people in it is just as important.

Janet: It’s huge. And again, that goes back to the idea of, you know, having family and a support system and you know, and when designing these types of environments I think that that’s an important component to talk about, is that, you know, there’s other people in the house. And so, you got to make a house, in all those particular rooms that you talked about, comfortable, beautiful, but also functional for the individuals as well.

Deborah: In my practice, people frequently think about what to do for a couple of years before they call me in. And I think people have to go through some process of understanding that they really can’t do things by themselves, or that it, over the long run, they’d like to make it easier to do things. And so, I think it’s it does often mean that people are really ready to move and don’t understand that the design process can take four to six months. (Janet: Right). And if they need to do something immediately. Sometimes, I have been called from the hospital, somebody saying I’m coming home tomorrow, can you get me to some grab bars? And now I know I’ll call Brian, (Janet: you’ll call Brian). But I think people really have, they have to put their financial books in order. They need to talk to the bank. They need to talk to their estate planning people. They need to understand that there’s going to be some money involved. So, (Janet: So important.) you really can’t rush the process. And that’s one factor. Give yourself enough time.

And I think the other is when is a time, when do you know if it’s right for you to start thinking about a remodeling project? And I would say, one is, when things start to break in the house and you know that you’re going to have to be calling in a builder or an architect for a kitchen remodel or bathroom remodel, or maybe the porch needs to be rebuilt. And you’d like to have a cover over the porch or a screen porch so you can be outside. Many times, the renovations are started because something’s falling apart in the house, the cabinets are falling off the kitchen or the tiles popping in the bathroom or the plumbing is leaking. And so, people start a project and then they begin to think, “well, gee, while we’re doing this, why don’t we just make some other improvements here? The house is a little bit worn, and it’s time to make it our house and reclaim it after the kids have gone.” So, they call me in. And so, when you start contemplating another kind of project, it’s the time to ask yourself, ‘Maybe we could do some improvements that would make it easier to age in place’.

Janet: Right, it is such a smart way to look at your remodeling. And you know, and I think one of the things I’d like to emphasize, and you know, it really kind of shows up in your book, Deborah, and the work that you do, Brian, is that it doesn’t have to look like it’s an institution. It can be beautiful. It doesn’t have to be boring. It can be a lot of, you know, gorgeous stuff that anybody would be proud to have in their homes.

Deborah: I think that’s one of the reasons that people maybe put it off because they, they remember grandpa being in the living room in his hospital bed. (Janet: Bed, right) And they don’t want that in their house.

Janet: Right, we can talk a little bit later about how I feel about grab bars, because I think they can be, I use the hashtag ‘crazy, sexy, cool, grab bars’ when I find one because they’re out there and I’m always excited when I see a really great looking grab bar.

Brian: That’s all one hashtag?

Janet: That’s all one hashtag. I just, I really do appreciate a good, a good grab bar. And, but when they’re not, when they look institutional, people do call them the granny bars, right, and they think to themselves that if you put in the granny bar, it’s also going to lessen the value of their home. And I think what I would like to propose, and you guys can—and I see Brian shaking his head ‘yes’— if you put in something beautiful in the home and it doesn’t even matter if you have a grab bar, as long as it’s good looking, like it’s not going to devalue the value of their home. Did I say that correctly? (Brian: Yes.) Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that, Brian?

Brian: Yeah, I think that the furnishings and technology in home adaptive equipment is really improving. There’s a lot of companies out there that do just what you’re talking about, make shower niches and soap dishes and toilet paper holders to look like a statement piece but also act as a form of safety.

Janet: Right. It’s pretty, I think it where we’re living in sort of an amazing time right now. And these particular manufacturers, as you said, they’re understanding that. And one of the things that I do as a designer within Aging-in-Place for myself is that I look at evidence-based design and the types of theories that are out there. So, when we talk about comorbidities, maybe like the loss of the eyesight or hearing, how do we design for that, what are some of the standard best practices for stuff like that.

Deborah: We’re not all going to be in wheelchairs, (Janet: No, right.) very few of us will be. According to the census, 5 percent of the population uses wheelchairs. But as you said earlier, we have an unprecedented population growth where more people will be older than there have ever been before. And as those folks move into their 80s and 90s and hundreds, we’re going to have something that we’ve never had. No one knows what a large population of 100-year olds is like. I think we’re all more fit than past generations, and so, (Janet: We eat better). And that’s right. So, it’s a real unknown. That’s why I think it’s equally important to be looking at the other kinds of disabilities that people can have that are part of aging, but they’re also part of various conditions that can get occur in life as illnesses. And so poor vision, hard of hearing are both conditions that are improved by having good sightlines within the house. So, if you can open out a wall so that you can see somebody in the kitchen from when you’re standing in the dining room (Janet: Great point). And also, non-glare surfaces, floors that are matte finish instead of a high gloss polish; light fixtures where the bulbs aren’t shining in your face. It makes it much easier for people to see and communicate nonverbally because they know what’s going on and they’re not blinded by it. And so, whether they can not hear or whether they cannot see, making it easier to communicate visually and by body language, makes it easier for everybody to feel communicated and to feel connected.

Janet: And connection is such an important component to, you know, what we do. And again, that goes back to health and wellness for the occupants as well.

Deborah: Yeah. And I think in addition to sensory impairment, which can occur with age or with injuries and accidents, there’s also cognitive decline. (Janet: Yes). So how can we make it easier for people who might be a little disoriented or get a little forgetful? I think we can we can really use color coding, perhaps…

Janet: That’s a great, yeah. I’m sorry. I’m don’t mean to interrupt. But it’s it’s it’s a terrific way to help, and ‘way find’ for people, you know, because you want you want a certain sense, even with the cognitive, you know, some sort of dementia or something like that, you want people to be able to have the autonomy to be well enough to go and wander, but wander safely, so…

Deborah: Yes. And within the home you can change the flooring materials, so a person knows when they come to the wood floor, they’re in the bedroom area, for example (Janet: Exactly). You can also change the, you know, you want to have windows that let in a lot of light. So, you’ve got good lighting, whether it’s natural lighting in the day or artificial illumination at night. We also, open storage in the kitchen or somewhere in a utility room that makes it easy for people to find things if they’re getting forgetful. “Oh, my goodness. Where’s the, where’s the cereal now? I remember somebody moved it”. Just, you know, there’s a lot of things that you can do. And people don’t look at that as an example of someone’s frailty or somebody’s disability. We can have open shelving and open storage and in a very contemporary kitchen.

Janet: And it looks beautiful. And I mean, I have it my house.

Deborah: and I could go on and on in the kitchen. There’s so many hardware devices that can be brought in to make it easier. Pull down shelves, quiet, slide out in easy, close drawers, counters at different heights, a pull-out shelf in the counter so that you get extra workspace and then appliances. Oh my gosh, we can talk about appliances. Yeah, but how easy is it to use, if you press the buttons on the microwave, do they ping you? Do they signal that the message came through? Are they easy to read or they black on white or white on black versus silver on gray? Very hard to read that kind of thing.

Janet: That’s so true. Very, very true. I know.

Brian: This is why you don’t leave the designing till three weeks before.

Janet: Right. That’s a really good point, Brian.

Deborah: It takes time to shop around and hunt for these things.

Janet: And hunt for these things. And just to go back a little bit, the reason why you said this silver and the black, and white and the black lettering on a black background for people with visual acuity problems, this can be problematic. (Deborah: Absolutely).

Deborah: Right. And, you know, thermostats, for example (Janet: Great example), they can be very confusing to read and to program. And so, don’t just accept your mechanical contractors’ recommendation ‘oh, you need a thermostat? We’ll put this up’. Really ask yourself, ask the contractor. “How does this work?” You know, look at the manual. Go online. Find how easy it is to program yourself. Maybe you want something simpler. Maybe you want something with a bigger screen. Maybe the color contrast is needs to be important. Normally they put white on a white wall, and it tends to blend in. But sometimes you want something to be really easy to find.

Janet: Right. You know. Yes, easy to find. Or alternatively, not to be easy to be found because, you know, maybe somebody with the early signs of dementia might end up kind of fiddling with the thermostat unnecessarily.

Deborah: You know, people are always asking what can, isn’t technology going to solve all the problems of aging, isn’t going to solve all of our problems.

Janet: Well, you know, you’re bringing up a really good point. And I was going to jump into that. We might as well go right on into it. I had a professor that argued that any kind of technology is not a good thing. You can lose remote controls and that kind of thing. And I think there’s a good point to that. I also think that today’s seniors are more sophisticated. They have now been more exposed to things like computers and cell phones and, you know, and text messaging and all that stuff. So, they are a little more tech savvy, the group that at least is coming in at this point and then moving forward. What do you guys think about technology and the use of technology? Like sometimes I think it’s just terrific and I think it has really kind of helped and propelled our profession. But then sometimes I think, you know, should we, shouldn’t we be relying on our abilities to design without the need for technology? Brian, do you want to start?

Brian: Sure, I’ll start. Technology is a piece that I touch on a little bit. Not so much as maybe an architect or a designer like yourself would do, but I do notice certain intuitive technologies becoming important. One that’s wonderful for in-law suites, say mom and dad are home during the day and you’re at work. And maybe you are concerned that they’re jacking the heat up to 80-degrees. Well, you can check it on your phone now with the Nest. And you can reset it and you can lock it from the house, and you can do things like that. And you can make sure they’re safe, but also that they’re not burning all your oil and things like that. So, I think those technologies are great. But I think that some just aren’t worth the effort. And some just confuse things.

Janet: Do you want to give us an example?

Brian: Yeah, I think that a lot of people like Alexa is awesome to me, right. I look up recipes. while my hands have egg all over them or whatever, right, that’s cool. And it’s easy to add something to my shopping list. But, you know, you might be confusing someone with dementia in a house by constantly calling to Alexa and trying to tell her to do something, or trying to teach them how to use that. It may just cause more stress than it’s than it’s worth. And so, like, you know, different ADA or AAB style specs work well for some people, you can look at technology the same way.

Janet: Right. And Deborah, do you have any thoughts on technology and Aging-in-Place?

Deborah: Yeah, as you said, technology can break down and it changes, and you have to stay up to date and it can be costly to keep up to date. And it’s no excuse for good design and solid design (Janet: Exactly). It’s really something that can complement it. For example, elevators and platform lifts are things that I put in frequently when people have stairs in their house. The medical folks are having these same conversations as the building industry. And I think when we talk about technology, it’s important to know what’s coming down the road in terms of mobility devices. No one would have known a few years ago that they were working on a wheelchair that can go up and down stairs. Maybe that whole idea of elevators is obsolete. And that’s technology.

Janet: This is true.

Deborah: Technology comes into play with the appliances now that appliances are doing so many, so many things. A refrigerator can tell you when you’re running low on milk or make a shopping list for you. Or there is a refrigerator by LG that connects to your iPhone so that if grandma is in her house and she normally goes to the refrigerator every morning and she hasn’t and you’re seeing on your iPhone, she hasn’t used it. You can call her up and say, “Hey, you okay? Did you fall? You know. Why weren’t you in the refrigerator this morning?”

It’s really important to take a look at appliances to see how easy they are to use. For example, a stacking washer/dryer. Some of them have the controls so high up on the top unit that it’s hard to reach. Whether a person, you know, is shorter; has trouble with their shoulders, they may not be able to operate that. And then what’s the height at the eye level to look into the unit? (Janet: Right, that’s the other part). So, yeah, some of the time that information’s not available on the catalog or online. You really have to go out to a showroom and try them out for yourself. You know, I always tell people test drive your appliances to the extent that you can. Find an appliance shop that’s helpful, that a representative that can really kind of handhold you through making some of these choices.

You ask about technology. I’d like to say when we look at other countries and see what’s happening in these other countries. I think we’ll see some products that are coming across the ocean at some point. And a couple of exciting ones, I think are really cool, a floor that responds to a person’s footfall or a fall. And so, if a person falls (Janet: I think that, yeah), then the floor will call 9-1-1 and the ambulance will come, or it’ll call the doctor and say a phone call will be made “Are you OK?”

Janet: I think that that’s for me, that’s one of those, that’s a really great new product. And it goes back to the whole technology thing, but I think it’s, it’s well worth it.

Deborah: We’re balancing now, the ease of using technology with the lack of privacy that that can be associated with. So, I think there are some really great things coming up. Also, say emergency call buttons that might be placed in different parts of the house.…

Janet: Let’s talk a little bit about that. And Brian, you might want to jump in. I feel like that’s another granny bar type of situation. A lot of people won’t do Life Alert. I have a friend of mine whose mother is 92 and she’s like, I should probably get her that Life Alert alarm system. you know, what’s been your experience, do you find that people are pretty hesitant to do that as well?

Brian: Sure. So, I would say, yes, get those things. I would say anything that helps in an emergency is particularly important. If you don’t like matte tile on the walls or on the floors, well, maybe there are some things we can do to work around that, but don’t work around emergency response. That would be what I say.

Janet: Right.

Deborah: I think there’s some really cool things coming up with technologies that frequently connect to the iPhone. But I, but still, most of what we do is not technology. It’s just simple, good design.

Janet: Right, now you bring up in a really good point and it’s a great segue to go into trends. Any trends that either one of you are seeing that you’re totally digging. Is there something, you know, maybe just goes back to your point, you know, good design is good design, but is there anything else out there that you’re thinking, this is pretty nifty?

Deborah: Well, I think there are some really nice sinks that are accessible. The shallow sinks that the drain is at the back. They can be set into a vanity counter and keep the vanity space open underneath so a person can sit down, whether they’re in a wheelchair or whether they just choose to sit while they’re drying their hair. Is this a trend? Is this something that’s been happening for a long time? I think. I think some of these trends are being triggered by the Aging-in-Place movement and the accessibility movement. So, they are good ideas that work for everybody, where they started, I don’t think it really matters.

Janet: And Brian, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you think… what kind of trends are you seeing?

Brian: Sure. So, in terms of the trends that I see, I think that, you know, I get kind of geeked out about the raw building material type of trends that help me. So, there’s a much greater need for a walk in and barrier free showers now, okay, and now a system that I love to use is called Wedi board and Wedi building panels.

Janet: Can you tell us a little bit about what that means?

Brian: Yeah, so we do a lot of a lot of bathrooms. And back in the day, what you had to do was to create a wet room or to create a barrier free shower, you had to, you know, outfit the entire room with a copper pan. and only the plumbers knew where to buy it and where to get it. And then, it was a very expensive material and installation process. And it makes the labor costs, it reduces the labor costs quite a bit. And it makes my job a lot easier, which, which is great. And it’s also just it’s, it’s cleaner. It’s, it’s better, you know, there’s a there’s fewer leaks, it has a lifetime warranty, so products like that, things like that that you’re not going to see necessarily.

Janet: Right, but that it makes things a lot, like you said for yourself, easier, it’s cheaper for the consumer. And then also it provides this beautiful look to the bathroom. I love a curbless bath shower, I mean, it’s just it’s so stunning to me. And, you know, and you can then wheel yourself in there if need be, or you can walk yourself in there with a walker, I mean, without having to go over of some sort of lip. I think that that’s just an amazing…

Brian: and I think it just looks better…

Janet: It looks sexy. I mean, doesn’t it? (Brian: Yeah), I’m a big, I’m a big fan of it. You know, I mean, I have a little lip in my, in my shower. And, and actually after it was finished, I had actually broken my leg. And I was actually kind of grateful it wasn’t a bathtub that I had to step in because I thought originally, I would want a bathtub. And having a handheld shower with also a bench was very helpful in my shower.

Brian: And that’s the thing, too. And Deb, you could probably speak to this more than I can, but I don’t think it’s like a “all right, I just had my 80th birthday, now it’s time to reconsider what we do for the construction”, I think anyone can benefit from that. Like you just said, you know, you you were glad you didn’t have a tub anymore. (Janet: Right). So, I would say anyone listening, I think we remodel our particular rooms every 10-, 15-years. Is that right? (Deborah: I think that’s fair). (Janet: That’s about right, yeah), I would say, well, if it’s time to do a remodel, maybe consider some of these things anyway. You might realize that you like barrier free showers better than tubs. (Janet: Right.) And then if something does happen, then you’re set.

Janet: Right. And it was funny. somebody had said to me not too long ago, a bathtub is a very slippery concave surface, which is kind of incredible that we think that this seems reasonable. I mean, I understand the need for a bathtub and enjoy a good soak, but for every day, you know, cleaning for yourself or for your family, I mean, a shower is sort of the way to to go.

Deborah: Yeah, I think maybe this is a trend as well, but many bathrooms now we’re putting showers and tubs. So, people like to soap, but they mostly would use a shower, too. And same thing in the in the kitchen, we put a cook top separate from the wall oven. That way the wall oven can be right at a comfortable height for using, you don’t bend down and reach inside. And also, that the cook top is open underneath either for a seated space or you can put storage cabinets (Janet: Which is great.) for pots and pans.

Janet: Right. But I do want to just kind of backtrack just to make sure that I’m understanding. So, I might be simplifying. So, whom do I call first? Theoretically, I should probably be calling the architect, right, I should be calling you Deb first?

Deborah: Yeah, I would say that if you can’t visualize what you’re doing and you need drawings, you’ll need an architect. If you are doing in addition, Architect. We draw. We look at alternatives. We help the owner understand all the variables involved in making choices and the ramifications of certain decisions. I think that’s the skill of the architect is that kind of big picture thinking. (Janet: Sure). If you know exactly what you want and you can describe it in writing, then shop around, collect the images of the things you like. You can go to a builder.

Janet: Absolutely. And Brian?

Brian: I think she hit the nail on the head. If you have the foresight, the means to call an architect, particularly to design a space that’s going to work for you and an oncoming health concern or mobility concern. Absolutely. And I’d add to that as well and say before you call either of us, you need to be working with your team of health care professionals and your family. (Janet: Great point) to speak with either of us or about a remodel or a designer like yourself. (Janet: like myself, right). who understands how different disabilities can impact you and different conditions, can impact you, so that you don’t do this remodel and mess it up (Janet: Right). but you’ve got to work with some professional.

Janet: Well, thank you very much Brian for that plug. That was very great of you. And Deborah…

Deborah: The question is where to start. If a person calls an architect and really needs a builder, I’ll send them to the builder. And I think most builders will understand when they feel that an architect should be brought in. So ideally, it’s a team effort and we’ll all be involved at some point.

And, I think it’s helpful, to, to start this process with a kind of masterplan and an overview and just take yourself away from we have to do something immediately and we have to know who to hire. If we can really think how much are we going to spend, what kinds of things do we think we need to do immediately? What do we, what can we put off a few years? That’s one of the ways to control costs, by the way, to think about phasing. I think if we also say, what can I do myself? What do I need help with? Many architects are trained in that kind of big picture thinking that we can help people identify what projects might benefit from what kinds of approach.

Janet: Right, right. And I work with both of you as a designer, you know, and, and especially in this particular field where I look at the types of, different types of conditions, and I would be able to say, hey, you know, this is going to be an addition. We need the architect. Hey, we’ve got some remodeling to do, let’s call Brian.

Deborah: Projects are team efforts… (Janet: Yeah) the homeowner knows their abilities. They know their house. They know what’s been done. They know its quirks. The architect knows what’s available out there for materials, knows what kinds of choices there are in terms of layout decisions and the different kinds of arrangements that can be made with contractors— lump sum versus time and materials contract, for example, or guaranteed maximum price. And a builder really knows the materials and the costs on a day to day basis and where to get things and what’s going to take a long time. So really, it’s complementary skills, we really all have to be communicating.

And I think there’s a role for the medical professionals in there, too. There’s a parallel conversation, I think, going on in orthopedic centers and in medical centers and even in medical technology as designers in that field are racing to find better ways, better wheelchairs, more, more mobile wheelchairs that can go up and down stairs. And I think that really adds a richness to the whole design process. So, I’m all for teamwork.

Janet: Right, and Brian?

Brian: Absolutely. Team, teamwork gets the job done for sure.

Janet: Just to piggy-back on, on what you’re saying, for this particular type of population we should be looking at people who are at least CAP certified. I think that’s such an important component that people understand the needs.

Deborah: Yes, I would put in a plug for contractors who are CAP certified because all of the subs on the job are not CAP certified, right? The, the electrician is going to put the switches 18 inches off the floor because that’s where he’s always done. You know, you may want to put those outlets on above the furniture so you don’t have to bend so much to get them.

Janet: Right, great point. Brian, you got anything else to add to that?

Brian: Yeah, I think a lot of subcontractors and a lot of general contractors who don’t have exposure to this are trying to do things cost effectively and make a profit. (Janet: True.) And this is you know, they’re fortunate for the work, but it’s, it’s another job to them. And they’re going to stay, they’re going to follow the building code and they’re going to get the job done hopefully on time and in budget. (Janet: Right) but there’s more to it.

Janet: There is, it’s very nuanced. And, and I think that that’s a great takeaway for our listeners to understand that, really gang— not just an architect, not just a builder, not just a designer— but ones that understand the nuances of Aging-in-Place.

Deborah: Many people will choose to hire an architect or a designer or they’ll choose to hire a builder, but it’s important to know not all builders understand the particular issues of Aging-in-Place, nor, nor do all architects and designers.

Janet: Absolutely. And that’s a, that’s a really good point.

Deborah: So, there’s a program by the AARP and the National Association of Home Builders called Certified Aging-in-Place Specialist. It’s, the acronym is CAPS, C-A-P-S. And these are people who have been trained in a few days, special workshop to develop the sensitivity and some skill sets at designing, understanding and communicating with people who are looking at aging issues.

Janet: I’m CAPS certified, as is Brian…

Deborah: As am I…

Janet: …As are you, right, exactly. And CAP certification is a good thing. And actually, my master’s degree was in human conditions and for design. But it’s a good point. So, is there anything that you guys want to add?

Deborah: I’d like to add a plug for my book.

Janet: Yes, please. I would love to plug your book, right?

Deborah: Yeah. I wrote a book, ‘The Accessible Home Designing for All Ages and Abilities’… It was published by the Taunton press a few years ago. And it tells the stories of 25 people around the country who have modified their homes to deal with particular disabilities that they’ve encountered. And the stories are just wonderful stories about how people go through the whole thought process. How do you know when to stay? When to leave? You know, remodel your present home versus find a new home. How do you make decisions about priorities? What kinds of things do you do depending on what the disability is? What about working with a ranch house versus a colonial house versus the house in the desert versus something in an apartment building versus a loft building? So, I think looking at all of these different stories, you kind of start to get a sense that, yeah, there’s a lot you can do, it really (J: a lot of different types of, right, environments). Yeah, different environments, different conditions result in different kinds of solutions. But there’s also something very similar to them, which is that they’re open, that the kinds of modifications have been seamlessly integrated and really, I think gives people a feeling of hope and a lot of tools in their tool chest to go about making changes in their homes.

Janet: And that’s awesome.

Brian: And I have read this book and I own this book and it sits right on my desk every day. If you’re a visual learner, (Janet: it’s beautiful) especially, take a look. I’ve gotten a lot of, I’ve brought it to customers’ homes. And said ‘hey, I think this would work really well right here’… So, it’s a great book.

Deborah: Thank you.

Janet: And looking at different types of situations, you know, much like what you talked about with your book, there is individuals who have stories to tell. So, is there any particular stories that the two of you have or any kind of anecdotes that you’d like to share?

Brian: Yeah, I have a really common kind of story. I work a lot in the Newton/Waltham, this whole area where people have these wonderful family homes, Victorians and things like that, that they’ve been in for a long time. And they come to me and say, hey, you know, we need to make these modifications. And after some conversation, I find, well, it’s not really that particular home that they’re attached to, it’s the community. So sometimes what we’ll do is say, “hey look, you know, you have, you have a wonderful home in a really desirable neighborhood. The resale value after a little bit of work is tremendous. And those, the proceeds from that, that are basically tax free, right, can be used to either create a new space in a more modest home within the same community, or to make more significant modifications, whether just aesthetically or for a particular disability”. That’s a, that’s a common story right there. People are really tied to their communities here in Massachusetts and I would assume everywhere, but that’s, I think some of the anxiety about leaving your home is to leave your community altogether.

Janet: In some cases, in that particular community you’ve been in for 30, 40, maybe even 50 years. So, yeah. So, elephant in the room. How much does this kind of thing cost people? What is, is there a ballpark? Is there some sort of magic number?

Brian: The amount you need to invest in your home changes so much. I live in a slab branch and it would be very simple to modify it. My doors and hallways are wide. Everything is completely level. That’s just not the case here. Homes are so old here, homes are big. Per room, if you were to say, hey, you know, what’s a barrier free shower or a wet room typically cost? I can tell you it’s usually in the 25- to 35-thousand-dollar range. Short wheelchair ramps into the house are, you know, around 5-thousand dollars. And you can get crazy with custom Azek decking and things like that. Or you could need a 50-foot long ramp and it could be a 15-, 20-thousand-dollar ramp. They are, you need to think about just the extent of the deconstruction of what you have to get to the point you need to be at. And I’m always very upfront about costs because, you know, depending on how much work you need to do, for myself and for the family, you might find out very quickly that someone’s cost assumptions are stuck in 1975 and you know, it’s 2020 now. So that’s the first conversation we have. Should be. You know, the elephant in the room, but it should be addressed at the first visit.

Janet Right. Yeah. Deborah?

Deborah: I’d say most of my significant renovations or a small edition projects range from about 100-thousand to 300-thousand. And that might seem like a lot, but when you think that the cost of assisted living can easily be 75-thousand a year. (Janet: Right). If you can prolong your ability to stay at home for three to five years, this expense is worth it (Janet: it’s so worth it). and very comparable. (Janet: Yeah.) And I think also renovations that are the kind of things we’ve been talking about do add to the value of the house.

Janet: And that’s the other thing. Again, it’s not, back to the whole looking like grandmas’ you know set up, it’s beautiful spaces. Your book proves it. Brian, your work proves it. So, I mean, it’s not something that, it’s just an improvement on the home. And it’s, I don’t want to say that it’s disguised, but it just blends into the aesthetics of the room, and it doesn’t have this kind of screaming like ‘somebody who, who’s old who lives here. Oh, no’. So, ‘somebody who is handicapped, who lives here. Oh, dear’. You know, It’s not like that at all. Right?

Deborah: No, I’d like to say that back to the question earlier about how do you know when it’s time to do a remodel? I think when you find your house cluttered with gadgets and storage. I was in a house not long ago where the bathroom had piles of depends and boxes of medicine and lots and lots of (J: Good point), lots of boxes of stuff. And so, I think it’s really important to make sure you get plenty of storage in your bathroom. That little old 15×17 medicine cabinet really doesn’t do it for most people. I mean, we’ve got hair stuff and first aid and, and dental care.

Janet: That’s a good point. Brian?

Brian: Yeah. I think typically the ones concerned with devaluing the home are the parents who say, “Oh, well, when I pass, I want my children to get the maximum value for the property”.

Janet: And that’s, I think that’s something that I’ve been kind of getting at, people tend to think that that’s going to be a problem, but I think, Deborah, to your excellent point is, is that nursing homes, not that they don’t have a place, or assisted living, is going to cost you about 75-thousand dollars or you know, and again, these home improvements are just that, they’re home improvements, they just happen to be better for people for accessibility or better for Aging-in-Place.

Brian: Yeah. Like, you know, the standard thinking in the past has been, “Well, if I make these modifications, that’s going to eliminate 25-percent of the market”, when really you just increased it to 100-percent of the market or 90-percent of the market.

Janet: It should be beautiful new design, and that will make any property, the property value to go up.

Deborah: I like to read the census, very interesting data about how the population’s changing, and 50-years ago, 26-percent of people over a certain age were in nursing homes. Now it’s 13-percent. People are not going to nursing homes… there is, a there’s a place for it, but I think people are really looking at what are the alternatives. One of things that I would love to see and maybe this is another, another podcast at some point, is what are the alternatives in living for aging. And for those who are moving out of their home, as Brian was saying, who find that the home is too big, what is out there, now is that apartment living? Is it assisted living? You know, we’ve talked about that very expensive. I’d like to see more alternatives for people to share a home with roommates, or to take a single-family home if zoning allows to make two family living spaces out of it, but they have some shared space. So, say, you know, with a friend, you might have your own independence but also have, say, a couple of gathering spaces that you could take turns with, or share if it’s my birthday…

Janet: It is a trend that is actually coming, I can see it coming. There’s been a few articles about that already that, you know, the baby boomers are changing up how we do age and Aging-in-Place though is something that’s high on their list. But to your point, also, to combat loneliness and depression is also to have roommates and, you know, to have people to kind of share your day with.

Brian: My parents have an adult daycare and they actually have just franchised it, (Deborah: ooh, good idea). That was, that was too good of a lead not to say, give them a plug. I won’t give myself a plug. But I mean, if you want to use it or not,

Janet: No, but I think it, it is interesting, you know, and…

Brian: I don’t want to get too far off topic of Aging-in-Place…

Deborah: Another program…

Brian: Another program…

Janet: Another program, right. We have, we have, well, what we’re hoping is, is that this topic of Aging-in-Place will be something that we will talk about for many years on Inclusive Designers, and I would love to have you guys back again at some point. And we can talk about other types of issues within Aging-in-Place and design and and to try to help our listeners make some educated choices.

Brian: This is nice. You guys don’t understand like on a jobsite talking to my framers, I don’t get to talk about this kind of stuff that much. I read about it and I’ve planned for it. And it’s like.

Janet: It’s one of the things I really enjoy about doing this podcast is I start talking to people and it’s like, these are my peeps, (Brian: Right). They understand me.

Brian: Yeah, that was fun. Thank you so much.

Janet: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you both so much for joining me today.

Deborah: Thanks.

(Music- Transition to Outro)

Janet: I think a few important take-aways from our discussion today would be…

– First, you really want to be sure you call a qualified Certified-Aging-in-Place-Specialist, whether it’s an architect, designer or a contractor in order to get the best design for your residence. One of the three will fit your needs and your budget.

– And two, it’s really important to understand that there are comorbidities to consider when designing. It could be somebody else at the home, or the spouse of the person that you’re designing for… it doesn’t matter. Comorbidities, everybody has a comorbidity, everybody is aging, but everybody also has just that one more thing.

– Three, while ADA codes are not required for residential design, they provide a good guideline to follow.

– Furthermore, these modifications don’t have to be boring and can fit into a clients’ personal style. There are great design options for those types of products, even including grab bars.

Carolyn:  We hope you enjoy our Inclusive Designers Podcast and forum… and todays episode on Aging-in-Place. If you have any questions on today’s topic, or if you have suggestions for future topics you’d like us to cover, please shoot us an email at [email protected]

Janet: And of course, for more information on our guests or on the design and research covered in this episode, please check out our web page at: InclusiveDesigners.com

Carolyn: If you like this podcast, please sponsor us on Patreon…

Janet: Hit the Patreon button on our webpage.

Carolyn: And we look forward to your feedback too. Send us an email and let us know what you think…

Janet: Until our next podcast episode, Stay Well and Stay Well Informed… and thank you for listening.

Carolyn: Yes, thank you again.

(Music up and out)

• The IDP team makes their way through Boston’s annual ABX convention (ArchitectureBoston Expo) and talks to the vendors that presented products of particular interest to Inclusive Designers. ABX is a great place to get caught up on all the newest and greatest products and techniques, and talk shop. We explore products that incorporate the benefits of functionality and design, smart technology and of course, our favorite… biophilia.

Topics in this episode include: Discussions on how… brightly colored panels contributed to lowering the suicide rate in a very grey Alaskan town; smart technology helps open doors for those who can’t: a roaming plant store lets people who just need a plant benefit those in need; and a simple idea of putting fiber optics into terrazzo helps calm weary travelers at the airport (as well as people with autism, OCD and anxiety). This last one is super duper cool… so cool you are going to want to find a place to put one in your home!

Special Thanks To:

Contact Info For Our Profiled Vendors:

Transcript:

Design Review: IDP goes to ABX 2019

(Music)

Janet: In this series we will be discussing specific examples of design techniques that can make a positive difference for people living with certain human conditions.

Carolyn: The more a designer understands the client and or the community the more effective and respectful the design will be.

(music up, then lower)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designers Podcast, I’m your host, Janet Roche…

Carolyn: and I’m your moderator, Carolyn Robbins.

Janet: We recently attended the ABX 2019 show which took place in Boston… to get a look of some of the new products that could be of interest to inclusive designers.

Carolyn: ABX stands for the … Architecture Boston Expo. It is the largest building and design tradeshow and conference in the Northeast.

According to their website, it is “the only place in the Northeast where you can meet face-to-face with over 300 exhibiting companies on the forefront of the latest building and design products, trends and cutting-edge innovations”.

Janet: ABX is presented by the Boston Society of Architects, or B-S-A, and before you say, that’s just for Boston, it is an internationally known show that attracts over 8,000 architects, builders, contractors and design professionals.

Carolyn: We took the opportunity to explore the floor at the Boston Convention Center and talk to all sorts of people about their products and services, and what makes them stand out from all the rest.

Janet: There were also some great organizations represented here. For instance, the Institute for Human Centered Design, or I-H-C-D. They provide education and consultation about best practices that go beyond the legal requirements to design places, things, communication and policy. They promote design that works for everyone across the spectrum of ability and age and enhances the human experience. That is the goal for all of us as inclusive designers too.

Carolyn: And, they also let us store our coats at their booth (J: Yes they did)… we want to give a big thank you to them for that.

Janet: And while we’re at it, let’s add a few more quick shout outs… one to the team at ‘High Profile’ magazine. They are a monthly publication, and also fellow podcasters with their ‘Build Better’ podcast… which has some interesting episodes, including one on the WELL accreditation.

Carolyn: And also, to ‘Dean & Derek’, the well-known Landscape Designers you may have seen on shows like ‘Victory Garden’ on PBS, or ‘Rock Solid’ and ‘Indoors out’ on the DIY network. Or you might have heard them more recently on their own ‘Let’s Go to Work’ podcast. They were very helpful, not only in sharing with us some very relevant podcast pointers, but also for pointing us to specific vendors at ABX they felt Inclusive Designers should know about.

Janet: One vendor they sent us to deserves mentioning. ‘Millennium Forms’ sells ‘Light Interface’ colored steel panels. It’s a very vibrant and creative siding option. They told us about an incredible project they did in Alaska in an area with a high suicide rate. They re-designed the community center with these colorful panels and a couple of murals, the suicide rate decreased significantly. Never underestimate the power of design and how it can affect someone’s well-being. This could be of particular interest to anyone working with trauma informed design.

Carolyn: We’ll post pictures of this and also the Kansas City museum that designer Jonathan Kharfen worked on. It draws people from all over just to see this unique and colorful building. You can also see more of ‘Millennium Forms’ work on their website. Check them out at ‘MillenniumForms.com’…

Janet: There were definitely some great products and vendors on the show floor we think inclusive designers will be interested in learning about… but some of the ones I found most interesting were the ones that came up with products that incorporated the benefits of functionality and design, smart technology and of course, my favorite, biophilia…

Carolyn: so, let’s start with a company that focuses on improving the quality of life and providing increased freedom for aging clients…

Janet: We talked with a husband and wife team that own a company called Home Healthsmith… Owner Bill Bohmbach and I discussed their projects and products for mobility and accessibility…

Carolyn: Let’s take a listen to your interview with him…

__

• Bill Bohmbach/ Home Healthsmith

Janet: So today I am here with…

Bill: Bill Bohmbach from Home Healthsmith.

Janet: And what does Home Healthsmith do?

Bill: We specialize in accessibility for people in their homes, businesses.

Janet: Like what kind of accessibility?

Bill: It all depends on the structure that we’re dealing with, but primarily residential elevators, vertical wheelchair lifts, custom stair lifts. That’s basically the core of our business.

Janet: Now, are you seeing your business grow quite a bit over the last couple years…

Bill: The demographic with the aging baby boomers is driving our business continually. We’re experiencing 20 to 30 percent growth annually.

Janet: That’s pretty impressive. Right. So, you and I talked a little bit prior to getting on the air. And I see this beautiful two-thousand-nineteen PRISM Award winning, Silver Award winning, elevator that you did down here in the Boston Wharf District.

Bill: That’s correct. That was done down on Union Wharf.

Janet: Can you tell us a little bit about the project?

Bill: Yeah. This was a very special elevator. The fact that it’s all glass— a hoist way and a glass cab— makes it very unusual in a residence. We partnered with Apex Carpentry and Oasis Glass to create this. This was about a 14-month project from start to finish.

Janet: Well, it’s absolutely beautiful. And we will have that, pictures of it on InclusiveDesigners.com for those of you that want to check it out, it’s absolutely beautiful. You should really be proud of yourselves.

Bill: We are very proud of it. This was this was a very challenging project that pulled my whole team in all kinds of different directions. And we got it done.

Janet: It’s just amazing. And so you also, it looks like you also do outdoor lifts. Can you talk a little bit about them? What makes them special and unique to this particular industry?

Bill: I can. And like, for our outdoor lifts which typically will service a deck or some type of a landing outside of the home, we’ve teamed up with a manufacturer that produces a lift that’s all aluminum. And that’s very unusual in this business where most lifts are powder coated steel. The benefit of the all aluminum lift is obviously it’s never going to rust, and it’ll stand up to the harsh elements that we have here in New England. (J: New England, right, yeah) And it also runs on batteries (J: oh!), so that if you have a power outage in your home. (Right.) You’re going to be able to use this lift.

Janet: Oh, that’s a key component to it as well. I think that that’s terrific. Well, thank you so much for letting us stop by today and talk to you a little bit.

Bill: Well, thank you for stopping by, I appreciate it.

Janet: one last thing. Bill, is there anything you need to have our listeners know and how they can get in touch with you?

Bill: We operate and are licensed in three states in New England– Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachusetts. And if people need to get a hold of us, they can call our office in area code 401-293-0415 and a member of our team will be happy to address their needs and get them the help they need.

Janet: And for those of our listeners that might be outside of that three-state area, is there anybody else we can contact, any partners that you have?

Bill: Absolutely. We have an extensive list of other dealers for the products that we supply here in New England and across the country. And we’re happy to facilitate a referral.

Janet: OK. You heard it here first. All right. Thank you. Have a good day.

Bill: Thank you so much, this is my wife Linda, my business partner (J: oh, hi, Janet Roche, nice to meet you.) These guys are going to make me famous…

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Carolyn: That was a very ‘elevating’ discussion…

Janet: Elevating…? Got it. I enjoyed talking to Bill about the services Home Healthsmith provides, especially their beautiful award-winning elevator installation.

Carolyn: And just when we were wrapping up our conversation with Bill, his partner and wife, Linda, joined us and she told us about another way their company is special…

Janet: They just created a showroom called the “Independent Center for Adaptive Living” which lets you actually try out the many products that can be used to create a safe, accessible home…

Carolyn: Let’s hear what she has to say about their new home health showcase…

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• Linda Bohmbach/ The Independent Center for Adaptive Living

Janet: So, moving on from Bill, I’m now here with his lovely wife, Linda. And Linda, why don’t you go and introduce yourself and tell me a little bit why I am now talking to you.

Linda: So, Linda Bohmbach, I have with my husband, we’ve opened the Home Healthsmith, which is really focused on mobility and accessibility. So, anything that enables people to stay in their home. So, we call it from grab bars to the elevators. Why we’re talking now is because we’re in the process of developing and designing the, a showroom that is called the Independent Center for Adaptive Living. So, it is designed such that people could come in, try, feel, touch and demo. So, we’ve worked with the local kitchen company, an appliance company. We are also in partnership with one of the local and largest furniture companies in the state of Rhode Island, that, they have provided the adaptive beds; they’ve got the chairs; we’ve got the products to help an individual get up out of a chair. You know, let them get their balance. They may have a lift chair, but then they’re on a walker. So, as they get up out of that chair, they have to hold onto something. There’s a couch cane that’s out there that we use with those with those things. We have bed rails that we use with the new high low Nairobi bed that’s got three motors. So, the motive and the passion is to enable people to stay safe in their home and to let them know that it doesn’t have to cost them 30-thousand dollars in some case (J: or more) or tons more. (Right.) If someone’s in a hospice situation or a short-term rehab situation, what has to happen for them to come home?

Janet: Right. Exactly. And I think that this is a great idea. I love the idea of having the ability to kind of, literally touch and see for yourself that these things can be beautiful and integrated beautifully within your home and not also have to cost an arm and a leg and take six months to take care of. So. So now tell me, where is this and how can I come visit?

Linda: So, we’re located in Portsmouth, Rhode Island at 207 Highpoint Avenue. We are right off of the 24, Route 24. So, you can get it there from anywhere from Connecticut to Massachusetts to the Cape Cod to anywhere in Rhode Island. You can reach us by 401-293-0415. We’re open from 8-to-4:30 during the week, weekends and evenings by appointment.

Janet: Terrific. We’ll definitely have that all on our InclusiveDesigners.com website. Do you have anything that you want our listeners to know? Anything that might pop out at you?

Linda: I think it’s important when you’re working with a designer or an architect of any kind, even a construction company. They need to know what the mobility situation is. They need to know what they’re designing for. What works for you may not work for the other individual. So, it really depends. I mean, this client may have ALS, that situation is going to be completely different than someone that may be, have dementia. (J: Dementia. Right.) So those are so important. A number of things. MS. All those things need to be taken into account.

Janet: Yeah. The comorbidities, I don’t think are always are taken into account. It’s like, OK, you’re aging. You just need a grab bar. Good luck to you. And it’s just really not the case.

Linda: It’s not because, you know, we deal with, we have family members that have M.S… So, what they’re going through, we know what they’ve gone through and what they are going through. But we always say, don’t plan for now. So, if you’re, if you’re working with a client and they’re building their forever home. Think of 10 to 15, 20 years down the road. What’s going to need to, what’s going to happen? Smart technology is taking over. Embrace it. Look at it. Use it. Because it’s coming, even to the point there are products out there that you can, you can look on to a smart tablet or smartphone and determine whether mom got out of bed. Did mom turn the water on? Has mom even turned the TV on? (J: Right.) So, it’s amazing what technology can do now. And I always just say plan. Think of, think of the long term. Don’t think of now.

Janet: I think that’s actually very, you know, good and sage advice to really kind of keep an eye on the future. And, you know, it made me realize, I mean, we kind of talked a little bit about this prior off the air. But what do you say to those clients who say, oh, I don’t want the granny bar and it’s going to ruin the property value of my home, what do you say to those particular clients?

Linda: You’re talking about grab bars.

Janet: Yes. Well, they call home granny bars, right? I mean, you know, there’s a reason for it. There is a reason for it. I mean, I just want my listeners to know, I’m, you know, there are some beautiful grab bars out there now that don’t look anything like grab bars. I’ve seen them in all different shapes and sizes and colors and designs. So just kind of reminding our listeners about that. But what do you personally say to like designers and or, you know, clients, obviously, that get worried about that and putting this stuff into their homes?

Linda: So, to the point that you just said, there are companies that we work with that can make an absolute beautiful grab bar that it doesn’t look at first glance like a grab bar, but it really is. And I always say put them everywhere. You can, you can design a bathroom to where you can have one next to the, next to the commode where it doesn’t look like a grab bar. It’s a circular type of thing. You should always look to have a grab bar where you are stepping into a shower, walk, you know, walking into a shower. There are so many things that you can do now with those in terms of even the lever handles that you can use, in using those on cabinets in, in bathrooms. And again, it goes through. So, I always say, the more, to me, (J: the merrier,) the more the merrier. It’s true.

Janet: And I just want to remind our listeners that we’ll have all the information that Linda gave us and her husband, Bill. And we’ll have it on InclusiveDesigners.com. So, thank you so much, Linda. Thank you for being with us today.

Linda: Your welcome, thank you.

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Carolyn: Both Linda and Bill were very sincere in their desire to help inclusive designers with their projects and connect them to whatever resources are needed.

Janet: And I’m hoping we can take a tour of their new ‘Independent Center for Adaptive Living’ and also talk to them some more on the topic of aging in place. They are definitely proving that function does not have to be boring.

Carolyn: And now moving on to something a little more abstract, but definitely very cool, and also not boring, we noticed a booth we just had to stop and check out…

Janet: I met with Loren from Sensitile and was introduced to the concept of light manipulating materials. When you pass your hand over them, the light changes. They have the ability to create unique designs that can be very adaptable for use in healthcare. It may be an interesting choice for designers who are working on projects for clients with Alzheimer’s, Developmental Disorders and Autism…

Carolyn: We will definitely have links so you can see what it looks like, but meanwhile, here is more about Sensitile and how it can be used…

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• Loren Primeau/ Sensitile

Janet: We’re still here at ABX, and I walked by the booth and I saw sense-sa-tile, (L: Sensa-tile) Sensitile, and it had shiny objects in it. And I said, I have to stop and talk to this guy. So, for my listeners, for our Inclusive Designer’s podcast, why don’t you introduce yourself?

Loren: My name is Loren. I work at sales at Sensitile. We are a material manufacturer of light manipulating materials. So, they’re going to create materials that I can move light, change light in different ways, in different spaces. We do a lot of different things that are pieces that are just to create movement of light or using light to create light walls, light features. But also, we do things that are interactive and talking about kind of inclusive spaces, one of the most recent projects we did is we worked on a kind of a calming space in an airport. And the idea was to use the interactive material, so, as you move over it, it moves your light and shadow through the material. So, you’re having that moment for people who have those issues, who need to have that calm space, they can get caught in the movement of the light, in the material. and kind of get sucked into that for a second to let the world fall away around them so they could have that moment of respite before having to go back to the kind of the hustle and bustle of the world around them…

Janet: Especially at the airport. I mean, that’s just incredible. So, I was trying to figure out. How was I going to describe what I just saw? So, it’s like basically some sort of like concrete (L: a terrazzo) a Terrazzo, OK. And then on the terrazzo there are these reflections of light. Is that how that works? Or are they manipulated from an electrical source? How is this working?

Loren: So, there’s no power to it. What it is, is it’s using the fiber optic principle. So light is entering one light point and is being reflected out to another. So instead of reflecting light it is reflecting shadow so that you create a dark spot on one it is going to move that dark spot to another place. And so that movement and it kind of, it creates that spontaneous effect of not knowing where that shadow is going to appear in the material.

Janet: Right. Because I can touch it in one part and not at the other part, and then it lights up on one end and it’s not lighting up on the other end. And it, I just thought it was just so incredibly cool. Is there anything else you’d like to add?

Loren: I think one of the nice things about it is everyone thinks it’s electronic. they think that its powered. it’s actually just using ambient light. So, there’s no power requirements, nothing that you need to install to keep it maintained. You just install it and it works with the space around you. You’re not having to think about how the technology is going to integrate 10, 20 years in the future.

Janet: When you installed this in the airport, what was the takeaway from the airport itself? Has it been, assuming it’s been implemented? I mean, are people finding this to be something positive? And are you guys going to be doing it to other areas of maybe areas that would be considered calming spaces for maybe like kids who have autism or…

Loren: That’s exactly what it was for. I couldn’t think of the words before, but that’s what it was for, it was for kind of a calming space for children and adults with autism. And it was kind of the space in the airport. I don’t know if they had planned to do it in other spaces, but we’ve done spaces like that, I know we’ve made also made children’s toys. We’ve worked with a company that made children’s toys using the interactive material. So early development kind of playing with that movement of light.

Janet: Interesting. Right. Oh, that’s really fascinating… is there anything else you would like, any of the inclusive designers out there to know about your product?

Loren: I think it’s about the fact that there’s no actual power technology physically in the material. So, it’s a material that’s going to last 10, 20, 30 years because it’s just using the ambient light in a space. It’s reflecting that light and using it in different ways that even if I change the space around it, I don’t have to figure out how everything is going to integrate with the power and with the lighting of the material.

Janet: And that’s so smart. And I just want to go and do a quick shout out to one of the panels that you also have here. And it’s a panel of the map of Boston. And I’ll have that on Inclusive-Designers.com, our website, and maybe even a picture with Loren. So. All right. So that’s about it. Thank you, Loren, so much for having us stop by today. Thank you very much.

Loren: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Janet: Thanks.

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Carolyn: I’m still trying to think about where in my house I could put a small interactive table. They’re very cool.

Janet: Right, or a whole wall. And again, I can see it being used to design for different types of human conditions, or for anybody for that matter. The products that Sensitile had on display were really fantastic.

Carolyn: You might say that to help create a calming space, they’ve ‘unlocked’ the connection between light and design. And speaking of Locks, we should tell you about a new product line from Accurate Lock…

Janet: I was wondering when you were going to work in another pun, and there it is!

Carolyn: you know I couldn’t resist…

Janet: But yes, I spoke to Mark at Accurate Lock and Hardware, and learned about their Smart Entry web-based lock sets.

Carolyn: and we’ll let him explain a little more about that…

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• Mark Gallo/ Accurate Lock and Hardware

Janet: So, I am here now at …

Mark: Accurate Lock and Hardware, we’re promoting our Smart Entry mortis locks. So, it’s a web-based lock set. Enter with your iPhone or your Android. And that’s why we’re here today.

Janet: OK. And why don’t you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Mark: Hi, this is Mark Gallo. I’m the director of business development for Accurate Lock and Hardware out of Stamford, Connecticut. And here to promote our products from pocket door locks to our smart entry locks set.

Janet: Yeah. So, I saw as I was walking by, I recognized that, first of all, I love the fact that for, if you do want to use the handles on these doors for somebody who has arthritis, it’s not the round doorknob. So, this is very important for designers to keep in mind. But I also thought it was it was a great idea that now you can go and use your smartphone to open up the door. So why don’t you tell me a little bit about your particular product?

Mark: Sure. So, this lock set, this smart entry lock set, you could use a smartphone to open up your door and just click your smartphone and press on your lever handle to get in. So, it’s very easy and it’s intuitive to do that. So, no problem. This lock set, you could open your phone, your door, basically anywhere in the world to let somebody into your residence for cleaning the house or for maintenance, whatever the case may be. Accurate also has products that are electric latch retraction. So, you don’t even need any handles at all where you could just press a button and the door will just open. So those are great products as well…

Janet: Well, especially for people who might be, you know, maybe a quadriplegic or something like that, that they would have that, you know, instantaneous access to wherever they’re trying to go and have that independence as well.

Mark: Sure. So, for ADA, it’s just it’s a big part of our company. And we want to make sure that our, all of our front doors are ADA accessible. We also are very large in the ADA realm of a pocket door or a sliding door arrangement. So, when you have an ADA situation in a pocket door, you want to make sure that it’s spec’d up properly and anybody can call us at Accurate Lock and Hardware, and we could definitely tell you how to spec that out. So, you have a nice true ADA pocket door. It’s really important just to have high quality hardware on an ADA pocket door so nobody has to twist or pinch or grab a handle to open the door in any way. So, we want to make sure that it’s just very accessible for people to work through their pocket doors. And we have a lot of solutions for those pocket doors.

Janet: That’s great. So now your Accurate Pocket Door, does that still work on the same smart entry technology as the regular door? or Is it two separate products?

Mark: Well, great question. No, it doesn’t work on the smart entry. The smart entry is really for the front door situations. So maybe down the line we’ll have some smart entry for the pocket doors, but right now they’re more of a manual case. So, we’ll just have a high-quality product for those, for those pocket doors or sliding doors or barn doors and making sure those are ADA accessible. Again, we have a lot of solutions where you can visit our site or give us a buzz and we’d be glad to go over that with you.

Janet: Well, our listeners know by now, or hope that they know by now, that they can go to InclusiveDesigners.com, and we’re going to put up all your information on the website and let people go in and look at your products. And so, but we thank you so much for having us stop by today. Is there anything else you want designers to know about your product that maybe we haven’t gone over?

Mark: We just appreciate if anybody go to our site and see what Accurate is all about. We make our products 100 percent in the USA. We’ve been manufacturing in Stamford, Connecticut since 1972. Really quite proud of our products and hiring people locally to make our products and um very unique and very niche. So please visit us. And see what we’re all about. Thank you.

Janet: Well, terrific. Thank you so much, Mark. Thank you for taking the time out to talk to Inclusive Designers podcast listeners.

Mark: Thanks, Inclusive Designers… you guys rock.

Janet: We’re going to use that at some point, alright, great. Well thank you.

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Carolyn: And by the way, we do rock. And speaking of rocks, our next topic deals with biophilia…

Janet: I see what you did there.

Carolyn: Well, Biophilia does incorporate rocks and plants and nature into design. And our next vendor may help designers ‘branch’ out with new ways to add biophilia.

Janet: I talked with Janice Goodman from Cityscapes who is an expert on biophilia… And I learned about her new product line called Fernature (Fer-Nature) and how a great way to bring nature inside is taking ‘root’…

Carolyn: Good one.

Janet: I couldn’t resist…

Carolyn: I love it, I’m rubbing off on you… And here is your interview with Cityscapes…

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• Janice Goodman/ Cityscapes- Living Fernature

Janet: So here we are with…

Janice: Janice Goodman.

Janet: And Janice Goodman, what do you do?

Janice: I transform people’s lives through the power of plants.

Janet: And what exactly does that mean?

Janice: I own Cityscapes and we create healthy environments in the workplace by bringing interior landscaping in, and providing exterior landscaping and living walls, et cetera to bring nature indoors…

Janet: Which is something that I love. And so, you and I have talked a little bit beforehand and we’re talking about something near and dear to my heart called Biophilia. But I’m going to let you, the expert, talk about what that is and let our listeners know.

Janice: Well, I’ve been. I coined the term “biophiliac” That’s what I am. I am a biophiliac. I admit it. It’s OK. My husband knows and it’s nothing bad. Bottom line is biophilia, the innate human emotional connection to nature. Before the term was even coined many years ago, I’ve always felt it. I know that we all need to be in the presence, in nature. So basically, humans have been in existence for 200,000 years, but we’ve only been, so we’ve been in nature and wired, our DNA is wired to be in nature. It’s only been two hundred years that we’ve had urbanization. So, we’ve been stuck in cities with concrete and steel and why do you think there’s more stress and there’s more crime? Because we’re not wired as humans to be in these types of situations. By bringing biophilic design into our cities, outside and in, will make people less stressed. It will make productivity increase, absenteeism decrease. There’s so many studies going on right now that are proving that biophilic design truly helps humans in general, whether it’s inside, outside, in the workplace, in schools, the academics, the grades are higher by having parks closer to schools or by having plantings, you know, inside these buildings.

Janet: Right. It’s just amazing to me, was it, Roger Ulrich that did that study about the idea that if patients had access to some sort of biophilia, that they recuperate quicker and they have less and less pain and less need for pain medication. So, was that the study?

Janice: There are many, many, many proven studies that show how they’re, you know, the post op stays are shorter if they have access to a place that they can go to, like a nice healing garden or, you know, there’s a lot of hospitals, I designed one in Indiana for a landscape architect, the Parkland Cancer Center, that basically has a healing garden. So even if they’re stuck in their room, they have to go take a walk. They can go to a place where they can just, it relieves their stress or even access to have a window in your room proves that their stays are shorter, and their pain medication is less. So, there’s multiple, multiple studies on how biophilic design in these hospitals and health care facilities are helping. And it’s saving millions, if not billions of dollars.

Janet: Well, actually, this is kind of an interesting transition. So, I would think that if I was a listener, I’d be like, well, so how can I do this at home? And one of the products that you now have is you have furniture, right? Living furniture.

Janice: Fer-Nature…

Janet: Fern-Nature, ah, I didn’t catch that. No, I know I didn’t catch that at first. Very nice. Oh, yeah. Well, plant on words. So why don’t you tell me a little bit about your tables that you’re creating and how you can bring then biophilia into maybe, say your home, without a lot of fuss and muss.

Janice: So, about a couple of years ago, I did a conference and it was on biophilic design trends in the industry. So, one of the things I saw was this like little table and had some plants in it and I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. So, I started kind of thinking about ways that we can incorporate plants into some wood pieces and metal pieces. We’re bringing (J: all more parts of nature in some respects. Right). Exactly. So, we displayed here at ABX some of our newer pieces and it’s gotten quite a buzz. There are so many people interested in it. And again, there’s more organic elements like wood, you know, some of the wood tabletops. And yes, we can make them lower maintenance. And sometimes if people are, really have a black thumb, we can put preserved mosses and preserved ferns in them.

Janet: we’ll, Oh, that’s actually really good point, because I am notoriously, I say my apartment is where plants go to die. I know. And I feel terrible about it. But so that’s a really good, important part to know.

Janice: Yeah. So, we’re trying to make this, so, we obviously provide plant care for our corporate accounts so we can go in and take care of these tables. But if we, you know, we’re starting to look at, because it was such a residential, so many people wanted them for their homes. In fact, we sold a piece right off the floor today. So (J: that’s great). So, we’re trying to, so we have to ask the questions, are you good with plants or not? So, if they’re not, we will make the piece with less, you know, plants and maybe more preserved rocks and mosses and preserved ferns, so that it’s still very, it’s still biophilic because it’s still nature. And it doesn’t have to be alive to give you, its ‘biomimicry’…

Janet: There’s another great buzzword.

Janice: Yes. So, if we can steer people in the right direction for easier plants, or if they love plants, let’s get some really cool exotic y’know plants that they, that they can handpick for their tables. So, the Living Fernature has been like explosive at this show. It’s just so different. It’s not the norm. And I got to tell you, the trend for biophilic design, because I’ve been working with architects for thirty-seven years. I’ve been in this industry and I’ve owned my company for twenty-seven years. And there’s ebbs and flows. When I first started, plants were hot and went through a long period where I literally had to talk architects into putting plants in buildings because it was all about clean, crisp designs. Don’t put any greenery in there. And now it’s back and we are so busy and growing, we can’t keep up with the demand.

Janet: Yeah. No, it is crazy. And again, we’ll have to spend a little more time talking a lot more about Biophilia and your great, Fernature, (Janice: Fernature) Fernature furniture. I love that.

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Carolyn: I really like that she calls herself a “biophiliac”… And with their Fernature furniture, Cityscapes is bringing biophilia to the ‘table’ in more ways than one.…

Janet: I get it (chuckle)… meanwhile, I really like the idea that their ‘Living FerNature’ line brings biophilia inside in such a functional way. So, in case you haven’t heard, plants have a number of evidence-based health benefits. Studies have shown plants can knock out stress by calming the sympathetic nervous system and can also make people feel happier. More research shows spending time around nature has a positive effect on a person’s mood and energy levels. Plus, since it’s part of the furniture, you can add biophilia to a space without needing room for floor plants.

Carolyn: Janice said their vision is to transform people’s lives through the power of plants, and these tables provide an interesting way to do that. But she also has a separate more straightforward way of getting plants into the workplace, and it’s a charitable offshoot of Cityscapes…

Janet: It’s so great, it’s her way of giving back to the community. Cityscapes turned a food truck into a roaming greenhouse. It’s called Trans-Planted.

Carolyn: I’ll “leaf” the rest of the plant puns to Janice, and she has quite a few of them too… Let’s hear more of your conversation with Janice…

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• Janice Goodman/ Boston Cityscapes- Transplanted

Janet: … tell me a little bit more about this project that we’re standing in front of. I know, this is one of your babies. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Janice: Well, we created Transplanted, which is a roaming greenhouse, and it is a charitable offshoot. I have a lot of plant puns, sorry…

Janet: Who wouldn’t.

Janice: They never catch me with my plants down.

Janet: (laughs)

Janice: So, Transplanted is the coolest plant truck ever. So, when you think of a food truck. This is a plant truck. So, it’s a little roaming plant shop on wheels. So, we decided, I do a lot of charitable things in my personal time and with work, because we’ve been really just very grateful for the Boston community that we’ve been so successful, our company Cityscapes. So, we want to give back. And the way of giving back to our clients, as well as these nice local charities and international charities as well, is that we can actually expose them and raise money for them. So, we’ll go up to our client’s office buildings and they will get parking passes. We’ll plop down. They’ll sent it out to all their tenants to say, hey, Transplanted is here and everybody in the building comes down and swarms us and buys all these cute pots and plants. And it’s just the coolest thing. It’s all over social media. And we’ve already been on TV and in the {Boston} Globe and all these different things. It’s really exciting. So, all the profits go to the charity that they pick. So, our clients pick the charity. in some instances, they don’t, like today, this ABX show, we got to pick the charity. So, my daughter’s actually interning for Breaktime Cafe, which is a new nonprofit. These two Harvard seniors, it started off as a little project for college and it’s turned into this new nonprofit that they’re getting funded. And they’re opening up a restaurant cafe where they’re going to be hiring homeless young adults who have been basically kicked out of their homes for one reason or another. And they’re giving them a path of number one, they’re giving them work, and number two, they’re giving them like mentorship and getting them on their feet. And it’s really exciting. So, all the profits this week are going to this Breaktime Cafe. So, we’ve already raised over eleven- thousand-five-hundred dollars to local charities since June. So, it’s super exciting, super fun and exhausting. But I love it. Love it. Love it.

Janet: Well, thank you so much for spending the time today with us at

Janice: You can find out more information on BostonCityscapes.com or follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Transplanted Boston. My daughter, who’s in charge of the social media, would love to have more followers and do a story and all that fun stuff. So, thank you so much. It was a pleasure meeting you, ladies, and I look forward to our new podcast in the spring maybe, on biophilia?

Janet: That would be great. We would love it.

Janice: All right. Thank you so much.

Janet: Thank you, Janice. Bye bye.

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Carolyn: So it sounds like it ‘ex-seeded’ their expectations. More seriously, it’s great when a program like this is both a benefit to getting a little extra green into a space and also gives back to a worthy cause.

Janet: We plan on doing an episode on biophilia and I hope Janice can join us for that…

Carolyn: and that seems like a good point to stop for today.

Janet: ABX definitely provides some good resources for Inclusive designers…

Carolyn: and we hope you’ve enjoyed our review of it.

Janet: and of course, we’ll post more on all of the resources we covered in this episode on our web page at InclusiveDesigners.com…

Carolyn: If you like this podcast, please sponsor us on Patreon,

Janet: Hit the Patreon button on our webpage.

Carolyn: we look forward to your feedback too. Send us an email at [email protected] and let us know what you think, or if there are topics you would like us to cover.

Janet: Until our next podcast episode, stay well and stay well informed.

Carolyn: Yes, thanks again.

What does ‘trauma-informed’ mean, and how can design help create a comforting, supportive and safe space for those who feel vulnerable during trauma recovery? J. Davis Harte, PhD joins us to discuss trauma-informed design, and walks us through her designs for a former bank redesigned to be an abuse intervention center for children and youth.

Topics covered in this episode: trauma-informed design, acoustics, design details, PTSD and safety.

J. Davis Harte, PhD is an applied and theoretical designer, advisor and educator. Her career focus is on trauma-sensitive design in child-centered settings, merging the knowledge of trauma-informed practices with the latest on evidence-based design. The people who benefit from the spaces she informs are often misunderstood and marginalized.

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Additional Reading:

Transcript:

Designing for: Trauma-Informed Design

(Music):

Janet: In this series we will be discussing specific examples of design techniques that can make a positive difference for people living with certain human conditions.

Carolyn: The more a designer understands the client and or the community, the more effective and respectful the design will be.

(music up full, then lower)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designers Podcast, I’m your host Janet Roche.

Carolyn: And I’m your moderator, Carolyn Robbins. Designing a center for those suffering from abuse or trauma is a very serious undertaking. What are the design factors to consider to make an already stressful environment less stressful, especially for children?

Janet: We asked Dr. J Davis Harte to take us through the process and research and the design decisions she implemented for just this type of clinic.

Carolyn: Dr. Harte is an expert in creating comfortable and supportive spaces with a current focus on those touched by trauma. Here’s a little bit more on her background and her qualifications: Dr. J. Davis Harte is a leading wellness design educator who bridges evidence and practice with work in children’s places, Trauma informed spaces and also in birth environments. She holds a PHD in Health with a design focus from the University of Technology in Sydney, an M.S. in design and human environment interiors from Oregon State University. She minored in free-choice learning and in human development and family sciences. Dr. Harte has a deep and broad knowledge about attention restoration theory, biophilia, salutogenic design, symbolic interactionism, neuro endo hormonal systems, space and place making, and all things related to environment behavior, especially for marginalized populations and children.

Janet: In today’s discussion we highlight how design played its part in helping a center for abuse victims which often includes children to move beyond such difficult situations.

(Music- Transition to Interview)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designers Podcast. I am your host Janet Roach and today’s guest is J. Davis Harte. Dr. Harte from Corvallis Oregon. Welcome Dr. Harte.

Davis: Thank you.

Janet: Please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

Davis: I am a wellness designer. I specialize in spaces intended for children, youth and those who have experienced traumas or typically reside in the margins of society. So my work recently has been very focused on trauma informed design.

Janet: And for our listeners, explain to us what is trauma-informed design.

Davis: Well, the last five to eight years or so there’s been an increase in people’s understanding of what goes on in a person if they’ve experienced trauma. It started back a little bit longer ago than that with the very getting famous study called ‘adverse childhood experiences’, ACEs. Folks in lots of different sectors and fields have been interested in creating trauma informed practices. So, if you were to do a little keyword search on trauma informed, you might come up with quite a bit of trauma informed yoga and trauma informed policy and practices. So along with some other thinkers around the world just in the last little while, trauma informed design seems to be one of the threads that connects all of these different spaces. People have understood how the experience is in the prison system, in housing sectors, in advocacy and abuse centers and that sort of thing. So it’s, it’s an understanding of how a person experiences trauma, what goes on with their neuro hormonal processes, how they might behave, what they exhibit and how a physical environment might either deter that and minimize the traumatic experiences and start to facilitate a person’s healing. They can have re-wired neuro hormones and neural processes that might reduce the amount of triggering that they have. Or conversely, physical environments might continue to perpetuate the problem.

Janet: Right. So, why don’t we kind of start a little bit from the beginning. So, what exactly is trauma. And how does it affect the brain and then let’s talk a little bit more about then how that affects us in terms of the built environment. So, can you speak a little to that.

Davis: Sure. What is trauma… we have, stress in and of itself has, it does have a bit of a bad rap. It’s something that day to day we all need to have to a certain degree but when we talk about chronic stress loads it changes the Allostatic load of an individual that they might be bearing such a large stress load and multiple realms in their own personal life that it can start to trigger an increase in their adrenaline which is one of the hormones that (Janet: the fight or flight response). It does exactly, it sets off the fight, flight or freeze response. Again, these can be, you know, we’ve learned more and more about how originally this was very helpful from our ancestors’ standpoint. But current, current times we have a different level of interaction with tigers and the elements. So, our modern-day living is still hasn’t quite evolved to, to remind us that we are safe, and we do have support around us, and we have less immediate dangers than our ancestors did.

Janet: Right, well, safe to a degree. I mean I think like you mentioned you’ve got a lot of clients who maybe or perhaps are on the fringe or marginalized, you know, they’re not always feeling as safe as maybe some other parts of the population. So, but it’s yeah, it’s an incredible change and we’re still evolving, and we now have to try to figure out what to do with the built environment in order to make us actually indeed feel safe and, and comforted.

Davis: Yeah, and in the last 50 years people have been putting out literature and research studies on Environment and Behavior. I was fortunate to just spend a few days in Brooklyn at the Environmental Design Research Association conference. So, people have been very curious and motivated to learn as much as we can about how the designed environment around us in which we live will affect people. But it’s only in the last, like I mentioned, maybe not even quite a decade that, the last five years I’d say, that the terminology trauma informed design is something that’s just getting a little bit of momentum. Which is very exciting because it’s and you can look at it from multiple keywords. You know we’ve got resilient design or therapeutic design is another side of the same coin. Salutogenic design, salutogenic being the opposite of pathogenic. So instead of focusing on what’s wrong with people and focusing on illness, rather let’s have the frame of mind to first focus on what’s going well and how can we get the momentum in that direction.

Janet: Right. Well you spoke a little bit about research, and I think it might be helpful for the listener to understand a little bit about what kind of research do you use and look at in order to create your designs.

Davis: That is a great question. It is a range of different types of studies because, you know, if you think about your built space in the room, what you’re, where you’re sitting there are so many different features in that space that to just look solely at the carpeting and not look at the rest of the space, won’t paint a full complete picture of what it’s like to be in that that room. So, I like to try to find a balance of quantitative and qualitative. So, I want to know people’s experiences and hear their stories of what the physical environment is doing for them or with them. There’s, there’s a, certainly for trauma informed design like I mentioned there’s, there’s quite a bit of research coming out about prison and secure environments settings. There isn’t a lot out yet about school design. In fact, I contributed to a chapter for a book coming out by Oxford supporting and educating traumatized students. A Guide for school-based professionals. So, it’s really just an evolving field right now. So, we have to borrow from our cousin fields when we look at well how is the outcomes for instance for neonatal intensive care units. I might look at what, you know, how the newborn in a critical care situation might be, you know what sort of physical outcomes they might have earlier releases and that sort of thing. Now they have a different set of needs than do kids in a school or in another setting. So, it is it is a matter of looking broadly and then really getting to understand how this might be transferable to the population at hand.

Janet: Right. You know you talked about prisons and I think it’s an interesting topic. I don’t want to go into the weeds too much but can you can you explain to the listeners a little bit more about maybe what is being done and I think what I understood from what you were saying is that there’s just not a lot of actual research that’s out there. But for me I find that the prison is a particular topic when we can talk a little bit about some of the stuff that you’re doing going forward. But that’s been a pretty traditional type of space. I think that they’ve changed it a bit maybe in the last hundred years maybe with the advent of electricity, but it I gotta believe though that we can do a little bit better in terms of design in order to create better spaces to calm the central nervous system, to calm the prisoners in order to really help to rehabilitate them as opposed to creating these extreme and stressful environments. Anyway, your thoughts on that?

Davis: Yeah, I mean that there’s some overlapping theories because you look at different settings and you’ll have different needs from those settings. You know some are going to be highly constraining and may not provide freedom compared comparatively to a different setting. So, it’s very much a matter of being able to assess and evaluate the population at hand that one is designing for and not just put some cookie cutter approach on them. (J: Right). That said once you know what sort of constraints or behaviors you want in the case of prisons would be ideal for rehabilitation and reintegration into society to be the primary goal. But you know all of that said, for me personally I do feel that it’s very beneficial to be up to date on the design theories and the theoretical thinking that can inform any space, as I said, adapted to that population. So, for instance one of the most famous studies out there is done from a hospital recovery room where the patients had either a view of a brick wall or they had a view of trees (J: Trees, right). So that Ulrich study shows that when patients had a view from their window of nature than they were had much better outcomes. I can’t recall exactly but they were released earlier and reported less perceptions of pain that sort of thing. (J: Right). So we’re getting them better understanding of what kind of nature and what kind of access to nature might be beneficial to any population Along those lines, I have a colleague that did a study on shapes of furniture and she reported that the preference for curve-a-linear furniture was because there was there is a deeper seated subconscious feeling of both engagement with the space and calming. So rather than being sedated so calm that it’s you know you’re asleep, but no they felt a bit engaged and activated. So that sort of information is theoretical, but it quickly can be transferred to actual design applications.

Janet: Right. We will go and post all the information on the website Inclusive-Designers-dot-com, but that was one of the first things I learned about design and one of the most incredible things I had ever heard. The recovery was quicker and there was less need for pain medication which I just found just mind-blowing. it shouldn’t be that simple but apparently it is. And the other one like you said the shape of the furniture. That was another one that I learned really early on which was I think also part of the rounded furniture is also it felt more homey to people and therefore more calming which was which is just kind of interesting to me as well.

Davis: Yeah. And some of the other important theories that I like to implement are the perceptions of control that a person has over the space. If you have a constrained environment, take the prisoners for example, you know you, you can still provide opportunities for them to have some perceived control that doesn’t give them a larger control over where they can go whenever they want. So, perceptions of control, the option to provide some positive distractions. (J: Right) This is something that comes from the attention restoration theory by Kaplan and Kaplan out of Michigan and they discuss that are we have the ability to have this fascination occur if there’s a few different relevant systems in place to do so and then we can have a hard fascination at a at a car accident for instance, you can’t help but pay attention. But ideally we have in around in our built environment lots of opportunities for soft fascination that allows a person to take a break from their focus and when they get attention fatigue they can become irritable and make poor decisions and be less productive for instance and that sort of thing. So maybe you know having a nap that doesn’t exactly always help them regain their attention because it’s a different type of fatigue, but getting away from it in a way that can be captured with fish tanks for instance or the presence of houseplants, that sort of thing can start to we don’t quite understand yet the mechanisms for how this is all happening, but it does show that having these positive distractions can be very helpful.

Janet: Right. I know you and I have talked off-line a little bit about some of the project you’re going to start working on. So, I realize it’s still new in the process about the Juvenile Home or can you explain, talk a little bit about what you’re doing with that.

Davis: That’s just getting underway now. It’s an adolescent facility that has believed that they had really nailed this recent building that is only four or five years old. But the reality of the post occupancy they’ve been living there and working there as staff for four or five years now, and they realize there’s a number of issues that they, they hadn’t anticipated. So, they’re bringing me on board to do some assessments and consult on how that space itself can be improved upon as is without doing any structural changes and planning ahead, lessons learned and so forth for a new building that’s being slated. right.

Janet: Well we’ll have to have you back when you’re maybe halfway even through it. I think it would be a fascinating discussion for a later point in time. (J: Sure). Why don’t you also now switching not gears necessarily we’re still on trauma informed design, but please talk to us a little bit about the project that you did with the intervention for women and the abuse that they had suffered and was it some sort of intervention clinic.

Davis: Yeah. It is actually it’s a space that is an Abuse Intervention Center for Children and Youth. So, if there’s something the family feels needs to be intervened in some ways somehow is brought to the attention of the ABC house. It’s located in Albany Oregon and they’re happy for me to share the work that (J: Terrific) that has happened here. It’s a very proactive place that aims to work with families who are referred to their services. So, they have, the clients have appointments set up and it’s a place that offers a way to assess what might be going on in the child’s life. And of course, it’s a place that many of the users of the space, as we say— I mean they’re they are people, but the terminology is user— so how they might have a heightened trauma background or experiences. So, it’s has a multi-purpose, the building itself has multi purposes that it needs to serve it has civilian social workers and it has officers and detectives and all sorts of folks coming in to help work as a team to help this particular child and family.

It’s a multi-year project and that they saw that they had outgrown their building and the services they’re able to offer we’re just too limited. So they were able to purchase, It’s actually an adaptive reuse because it used to be it’s been vacant for a few years the building was a bank in the 80s, two floors across from the courthouse very big imposing looking building, expanded the square footage tremendously and they could increase their staff and so forth. So, it took a brave leader and that was that was the director of ABC house who saw this opportunity and had the vision and got it, got the ball rolling. They had hired the architect who was a colleague of mine and a friend of mine. Early on before they knew whether or not the project would ever happen, she asked me if I had any evidence to help inform what the curb appeal, how that building itself could look less imposing, less intimidating (J: Right). And I was able to do a literature review for her and look through the evidence that I had and give some recommendations for how I thought we could make the building appear more friendly from afar. So, I just sat back and got busy with other things for a while. She said she’d get in touch with me if anything came to pass and sure enough, they got a capital campaign with so much support from the community and from businesses all around the valley. So, I was just so gratified and felt so grateful that I was able to be their environmental designer for the whole project and work in tandem with, with everybody.

There’s not just an immediate transferrable set of evidence for abuse intervention centers, so I borrowed from very closely related fields. And so, you have evidence, I mean I have a bibliographic system on my computer with multiple thousands of different articles all relating to design, to learning, to stress, to attention, to well-being, resilience, neuro- hormonal processes. So, as much as possible, I based all the design recommendations on evidence. And it takes, it takes a bit of time but I’m so fortunate that the team who hired me wanted to make sure that, that was in place and understood and appreciated from the beginning. So, having an evidence-based wellness designer at the helm was something that was a priority for them. And it was just a match made in heaven.

I remember at one of the early meetings speaking with the people who are going to do the plumbing and they were saying ‘oh I wonder what kind of toilets we should get for the space’ And I had an opinion about that based on evidence, not just my preference that if they’re dealing with a highly stressed traumatized population that would be important to not have sensors on toilets can be very disruptive for kids. (J: And why is that?) Even kids that haven’t experienced trauma, because it’s out of their control when know when it might flush so it can be very scary. So that sort of level of detail happened for about a year and a half and the doors opened in March. We have two different zones that weave through the building to represent at what stage the clients are going through. so, there’s an underwater section and there’s an above water nautical theme and those connect together just seamlessly. It’s, it’s a beautiful, beautiful building. They’re opening their doors for tours regularly every Tuesday because of the demand for wanting to go check it out, what it looks like in there.

Janet: That’s terrific…

Davis: It’s amazing. I’m just, still my jaws on the floor that I got to work on such a cool project, (J: Yeah), I couldn’t have done it alone though.

Janet: I know, well can you talk a little, I mean I love that story about the bathroom and the toilets, and those are just it’s just a small little design element that means a big a big deal for this particular type of environment. Can you give our listeners other examples of that kind of consideration.

Davis: Sure. Yeah. I mean designers need to be able to talk about toilets. That’s for sure.

Janet: We should all be able to talk about toilets.

Davis: because a person living there, in this case visiting during the day, nobody resides overnight, but the staff are there day after day and the visitors come through and spend two to three hours at their intake appointment and then they come back later for counselling. One area that we saw right away that would need extra attention was the way the parking spaces are designed. There used to be a drive through from the bank. So, it’s underneath the second floor and you can imagine that being, not very welcoming to drive into an undercover parking area. So we paid a lot of attention to, of course, how many lights would be there, so it’d be protected from people who might be walking around at night and might feel like going and messing around in this space that’s protected from the rain, but during the day how it would appeal to people was, there’s a huge wall that we were fortunate to secure a local artist who did just a gorgeous mural and she based it on our, our input. So, we had some concept development through the course of a few weeks where we talked about, ‘oh a little bit more like this, a little bit more like that, not so much this’… And she just came up with some great sketches that we were happy to see her bring to life.

Janet: Can you explain to us what was on the mural. What specifically was on the mural.

Davis: … first main, that main mural, because she ended up doing three more murals inside of the building, but the main one outside is a view of the ocean with land you know as if you are walking along a trail to get to the beach…

Janet: So, its Biophilia back to biophilia…

Davis: we worked with some Oregon coast scenes so it would be a local thing. We didn’t want to transport somebody to some, ‘let’s go live in the Caribbean’, because this is their life, they live here and this we want to make it meaningful to them (J: Right. Good point). Yeah. It’s amazing, and within that she got to be playful and add some, because our goals from the beginning some of our adjectives were whimsical yet dignified, professional. They know they’ll be taken care of but it’s there’s still a level of whimsy throughout the building that helps us remember that you know there’s plenty of opportunity for healing and resilience.

Janet: Right… This is great. So, I love the fact that we’re sort of essentially at the front door. We’re in the, you know, we’re under the awning where the old bank teller used to be. Now I’m assuming that’s the entrance and if so then take our listeners through it… how do you enter the building and what are the design considerations for the entry? I’m assuming that there’s some kind of reception desk.

Davis: Sure, we wanted one main entry that was very easy to find, so there’s not any uncertainty on the part of a brand-new visitor, they wouldn’t feel worried about where they should go, it’d just be completely obvious. It’s a store front window so glass metal doors, fairly standard nothing you know off the top of the shelf design wise but because of all the elements around it became it became communicated. There’s a lot of communication going on by the built environment around us. There’s another door that’s painted over with the mural far, far to the right which is for staff use. So, it’s not easy to see but staff are there every day and they know that’s the spot that they can go in and out. But there’s a high tech level to this building where there’s plenty of video monitoring, so people can see who’s, the woman at the reception desk can see who’s coming and then throughout upstairs there’s similar high level of technology that’s supporting the work of the people at the ABC house.

Janet: And do you think in terms of the type of building that it is, and it’s supposed to be in trying to, in conveying safety and that this is a safe place, did you find that some of the, having all those monitors and having all the video and keeping an eye on all that, was that necessary, was it necessary for the area, was it just necessary in order to help people feel like they’re being watched, or do you feel like maybe that even somehow counterproductive?

Davis: That’s a good question. I mean I might not really be able to address it you know honestly, but in this case, it was, it is necessary for the services that they provide (J: Right.) and then they’re not you know being watched and having hyper surveillance over a person is not good for ones’ stress levels. We see that in birth unit design which is my other field of research. So, it’s not obvious to the visitor that there are, there are these levels of surveillance, but again, it is something that we feel like we really succeeded with and we’ll see as time goes by. But the visitor will feel when they walk in that they’re welcome and this is a cool place. There’s something about it that just feels not like a medical institution (J: Right.) and that they’re also being taken care of. They’re greeted and they’re escorted where they need to go. So, there’s still a strong level of constraint that happens over the visitors’ experience and that’s part of the staff and the policies of their services. So, design is never something that just comes and solves all the problems. (J: Right.) This is not, that’s not ever the intention of great design. It’s there to support the work of the people who are trained and able to navigate this sort of work.

Janet: So, you’ve now walked into the building … What are some of the other design elements that you put into the front of the waiting area, the reception area that were considered in order to be maybe even thought of as the trauma informed design?

Davis: Yeah, we spent a lot of time discussing the journey of the client before we really even got into the details of the design. So, knowing the path that they would travel and what typically would happen at each part and phase of their experience, let us know that at the very beginning it would be about not a lot of sitting around and waiting. So, there are a few chairs that show ‘hey sit down and rest’ and there’s a bathroom we can see just right beyond the fish tank. We had a donor who is very important to them that we have a large free-standing fish tank which we were thrilled to provide for them. That’s a, that’s a great thing to work on. So, we have 120-gallon cylinder tank just off to the side. So, there’s something that sort of pulls people in and intrigues them and right away it gives them something to look at and talk about and not focus on their worries and their overthinking of what’s happening. (J: Right) To go with the theme throughout their whole building, except for some of the rooms that needed hard floors, the carpeting has a pattern on it that is bold but looks cohesive when it’s on the floor and it’s part of the background. And that’s a concentric circle in a sort of a French blue reminiscent of ripples or oceanic water or water elements. So, echoing from there starting in the lobby when you first walk in and going through all of the hallways but not necessarily going into any of the interior rooms. On the ceilings, we took advantage of acoustic ceiling clouds as they’re called. They come in a wide variety of colors and shapes and you can pick and choose how you’d like them to go. So, we spend a lot of time working on the levels. We’ve got circles for all of them and we have a variety of colors and shapes and those are part of what communicates the theme to the staff and to the, to the clients.

Janet: When you talk about levels are you talking about acoustic levels within the within the rooms or within…

Davis: Well what I mean in that case was the height distance from the gap between the ceiling (J: Right) and the distance from the fire sprinklers and all of this was meticulously planned out so that it would be appealing visually, and look interesting, but not be, you know certainly to want anything that looks disruptive or not quite right. So, we wanted it to look just very cohesive and it does. And as far as acoustic levels go, that was something that was also a systems wide thinking from the beginning (J: Right). HVAC folks were very detailed. I mean everybody that worked on the project just went above and beyond to make it just, it’s just an amazing space. So, for instance, HVAC decided to do multiple runs through instead of having a one big connection because of the importance of privacy and the need for sound to not travel.

Janet: Right, I always find that sound is one of those, sound and light are very interesting in terms of designing for human health. Maybe you can speak a little bit more about the acoustics and why is that important. I mean besides maybe like a HIPA situation where you’re in one room and somebody else is in the other room and you don’t want to have the transfer of information going from one room to the other. That aside, talk to our listeners just a little bit about the acoustics and the benefits of having you know a quiet environment and why the HVAC, actually I’m quite impressed that you thought that far to think you know the HVAC also needs to be something to be considered and you know and the sound sometimes of it just starting up unlike the toilet. You know they mean to just automatically just, right.

Davis: Yeah, I mean acoustics throughout are you know again… this is a collaborative effort from the beginning, and it maintained that level through the end. I mean our superintendent on the job site had some design influence over some of the spaces because it was, it worked with what we were going for. So, acoustically speaking, I mean we definitely chose carpeting because of that we knew that that would absorb, we didn’t want things to be an echo-ey hall like a hospital site that can just immediately set people a feeling of unease. So, our choices of fabrics for the chairs needed to both be able to handle any sort of childhood spills or lice or any, you know, need to have great cleanability. But again, the modern options just keep impressing me because you could have great color selection, great acoustical properties, good looks and functionality (J: Comfortable). There’s no need for either/or anymore.

Two, I want to give an example of how the acoustics were challenging in two rooms in particular, which are the rooms where the forensic interviews happen. They videotape and record the interactions between the child or youth and the interviewer. And it felt very echo-y when things were getting more finalized. So we adapted and, we couldn’t necessarily, because of the nature of what is going on in there, we couldn’t just stack a bunch of you know stuffed animals along the shelves to absorb the sound particularly, because that would perhaps be leading or the child might think, ‘oh if I’m good I’ll get a stuffed animal’ sort of situation right. (J: Right). So there’s that level of complexity that needed to be attended to. So what we did was take some of the ceiling cloud material. We had a surplus in just the right color. So, we had, that was one of the things the superintendent helped with, and cut circles, smaller shapes circles that we put on the walls. And that allowed for both the aesthetics of looking a bit like bubbles happening in the water and the color and something positively distracting to look at and say ‘ha it’s a random arrangement of these circles, smalls and mediums and larges on the wall’, but also it helps for dampening the sound. So, the recordings could be more crisp and more accurate, which is just very important in this in this work.

Janet: Right. You know at the risk of sounding like I’m kind of obsessed with bathrooms, you know, I know that bathrooms in particular— for full disclosure, Davis and I have worked on a middle school— and one of the things that we recognize is that there is a couple of different places in middle schools where kids most feel unsafe and one of them happens to be the bathrooms and of course the bathroom is acoustically challenged. We’ll just throw that down. Did you do anything in the bathrooms to help with the acoustics in there or was there something that you were able to maybe create that would maybe make the bathrooms a little less of a frightening place?

Davis: Well, I mean, we’re fortunate in that, there’s not a huge, it doesn’t get a huge number of people coming and going, so it doesn’t have high usage like a school would or some other setting. And they’re also supervised, so you know, I mean there’s nobody in the bathroom with the kid, but the kid is brought down there, or the child is brought down with the adults. So we have linoleum floors which are slightly better. And I had a long conversation with the flooring folks to help determine which of the hard surface flooring would be best at acoustic dampening and not have a lot of reverberations happening (J: Right). And this is the level of detail that they know. this is their, this is their material. They work with flooring and they know, and they have measurements you can see on their websites to say which has a better acoustical properties. So, as much as we can make choices about it, we did. You know there’s, aside from having mirrors that have a really cool seashell type oceanic theme to the frame of them, there’s not a lot about the bathrooms that would be you know mind blowing and say ‘wow that was how they manage that is really impressive’. There are plenty of them in there in the right spaces so there can be to get to. But you don’t have any examples other than having knowing that the flooring is a good part of absorbing it that it would that would help, and that the HVAC being in smaller sections so it doesn’t have a long corridor to travel to some other part of the, part of the building is part of it.

Janet: That’s interesting. Well, would you like to add anything else about the particular project?

Davis: Sure, sure, I mean the only, there’s tons of great details there. But one of the things that is really effective, for some of the staff whose offices are on the interior of the building and don’t have a window, we were able to put in some solar tunnels or tubes that connect to the ceiling that bring in just astonishing amounts of light in a really pleasing way, not light that’s bright in your eyes and hurts but it’s you know people would try to flip the switch off. So, we were able to get daylighting into some of the interior spaces which is I find to be another nice aspect.

Janet: That’s terrific. I like that idea quite a bit. And for those of you who are listening, we will have all that information and resources again on Inclusive-Designers-dot-com, come visit us. Davis, is there anything else besides the solar tubes that you might think would be important for our listeners to learn about and learn about in this project?

Davis: I will mention one other really important feature that is probably one of the most popular, is the ceramic tiles that we had custom ordered from an artist who, they’re just you know square tiles, and she made these fascinating figures and creatures all different creature on each tile, with these bright colors and she hand stamped them to give it a lot of texture. So, we’ve got a sensory level there that, we have a wall of them as they first walk into the building. So, there’s fishes and dolphins and all sorts of sea creatures, sea turtles and so forth and then scattered throughout the rest of the building… they’re in unique locations you wouldn’t typically think of having tiles like this. So, you know that’s something that visitors are invited and welcome to touch and interact with. They’re stuck on the wall with very strong industrial Velcro so they’re not going anywhere and they’re able to be wiped up and cleaned up but they’re- because of sensory processing integration that a lot of people experience- this is something that has also been really beneficial so far.

Janet: Can you talk a little bit more about that that I find that kind of interesting. I mean, having that kind of texture and being able to have a textile that you can touch is a, I think it’s sort of a universal approach to kind of maybe even being a little bit engaged within the space. and what was the decision behind making those particular tiles and is there research behind it that suggests that there’s positive benefits for something of that kind of nature?

Davis: Well, I’m not sure which member of the team came up with this idea. I think from the beginning though we thought let’s think of a way to make it feel less medicalized and feel less institutionalized. (J: Right.) So, we wanted something on the walls that would be at kid height so they would feel like the space was for them. And at youth height, and the staff could find novelty. So there are, there are studies about novelty and there’s a lot of research about sensory tactile stimulation and the opportunity to reach out and touch it would touch upon the theories of that perception of control. I mean clearly this is the type of setting where if I had if I had the resources, I would love to do some more studies on it and say well what’s what is it like to have this tactile environment.

The artist we worked with had a close affinity and an understanding of our population. So, she was able to transfer our, what we describe to her and how, what we are seeking into something that just came out, came out beautifully. She took great care and like I said hand pressing them all and giving us a you know steep discount because we ordered 200 tiles. So, she packaged them up safely and we were able to figure out how to place them on the walls by doing a printout of all the color versions first. So, we could use you know some painter’s tape. We had just little easy-to-remove print out so we could place them and locate them and move them around and we had a couple of children at our, I won’t say disposal, in our world who are happy to advise on what they thought would look good and be (J: Cool) workable so in that way we were able to have somewhat of a participatory design process. But like you mentioned earlier, HIPA wouldn’t, we couldn’t actually have participatory design with the children and youth that use the center but we had some stand ins, some of the designer and the muralists’ children were able to influence the locations and preferences for how they thought it would go best.

I mean it’s just, it’s goes, I could go on and on, but I think, uh, the response so far, it’s been a month and a half or so, it’s been really positive. People feel excited to return after their first visit because they know that they’re going to a place that can take care of them. It’s a remarkable project and I really do hope that it can serve as an example to people, not just in abuse intervention centers, but in many settings that need trauma informed design, of how with commitment and a team environment that’s beautiful, restorative spaces can be designed that are also highly functional.

Janet: Well this has been terrific. Thank you so much Davis. And again, we’ll have all the information on Inclusive-Designers-dot-com. I want to thank my guest today J Davis Harte, Dr. Harte to all of you. This has been terrific and hopefully I would love for you to come back at some point and give us an update on the ABC House, as well as obviously we’ll be talking to you again about different types of, different types of ,other types of projects that you and I might be doing and maybe some of the work that you’re doing with the juvenile facility.

Davis: Sure, I would love that very much. There’s lots and lots to talk about.

Janet: Terrific. Thank you so much.

Davis: You’re welcome.

(Music- Transition to Outro)

Carolyn: We hope you enjoy our Inclusive Designers Podcast and forum…

Janet: For more information on our guests or on the design and research covered in this episode, please check out our web page at: InclusiveDesigners.com

Carolyn: If you have any questions on today’s topic, or have suggestions for future topics you’d like us to include, please shoot us an email at: [email protected]

Janet: Until our next podcast episode… Stay Well and Stay Well Informed.

Carolyn: Thanks again.

(Music)

Catherine Leskowat discusses lighting and the circadian system and how important it is for our health and wellbeing. In this episode, topics will include: Aging, lighting, acoustics, preventing falling, lighting design for showrooms, blue vs. red light, and our circadian system.

Catherine Leskowat is a lighting designer with Lam Partners of Cambridge, MA, where she also serves as chair of the Science Lab. Catherine currently teaches lighting design for architecture at the Boston Architectural College, and co-leads a Boston women’s-interest networking and thought-leadership group, BOSLady. Catherine has been active in the IALD (International Association of Lighting Designers) since before graduating from the University of Oklahoma in 2013 with a bachelors in Interior Design, and serves on the IES (Illuminating Engineering Society) Progress Report Committee.

Additional References:

Additional Reading:

Illuminating Design: Lighting Design & the Circadian System

(Music)

Janet: In this series we will be discussing specific examples of design techniques that can make a positive difference for people living with certain human conditions.

Carolyn: The more a designer understands the client and or the community the more effective and respectful the design will be.

(Music up, then lower)

Carolyn: More and more studies are showing how better sleep cycles can aid in recovery and disruptive patterns can lead to long term health issues.

Janet: We recently had an opportunity to sit down with Catherine Leskowat to understand the connection between circadian cycles, health and lighting design.

Carolyn: Before we get into that discussion let me tell you a little bit about Catherine and her qualifications: Catherine Leskowat is a lighting designer with Lam Partners in Cambridge Massachusetts where she also serves as chair of the science lab. She currently teaches lighting design for architecture at the Boston Architectural College, or BAC. Catherine has been active in the International Association of Lighting Designers since before graduating from the University of Oklahoma in 2013 with a Bachelors in Interior Design. And she serves on the illuminating engineering society’s progress report committee.

Janet: In today’s discussion. We explore the impact that circadian cycles have on our health, and how lighting design and materials can be used to improve it.

(Music- transition to Interview)

Janet: Welcome to Inclusive Designers podcast. My guest today, Catherine Leskowat.

Catherine: Yes.

Janet: Yes… I pronounced that correctly. I’m very excited.

Catherine: You can introduce me any day.

Janet: Thank you Catherine for coming today and participating in Inclusive Designers podcast.

Catherine: my pleasure.

Janet: Start off this program today and tell us just a little bit about yourself and how you got into lighting.

Catherine: Sure, OK. I am an architectural lighting designer here in Cambridge Massachusetts. I would say for anyone interested in lighting, the bug is going to bite you so fast. I think that lighting is for people who love design, and I actually studied interior design just to get into lighting. My favorite people in the world are architects and interior designers they inspire me so much and so, I wanted to do something that showed off their work and kind of completed the puzzle.

Janet: I did not realize that, that’s actually really terrific. So, Catherine, you work at Lam Partners in Cambridge Massachusetts just across the Charles from here. Can you tell me a little bit about like, what is it that you actually do and how you go about your day?

Catherine: you want to hear the elevator pitch…

Janet: That would be great.

Catherine: I love hearing this question from everyone because lighting design is still a pretty niche field and most people don’t have any idea what a lighting designer would do. And I think about how light affects your perception of space, how it affects your performance at a task, and even your wellness overall. And I work from concept through to specification and reviewing of the site after everything has been installed and is hopefully working. I am a consultant to architects. I work really closely with electrical engineers, contractors, architects, interior designers.

Janet: Right, that’s interesting, because you don’t work in a vacuum (no, no), do you know what I mean, you always work with other architects and other planners…

Catherine: Well, that’s what the name of your podcasts says to me. I’m not sure if that is exactly what you meant it to communicate but that’s what it says to me is you’re thinking about involving all the voices in design and really getting those collaborators to work together on a much more fundamental basis than we normally do.

Janet: Thank you for getting that.

Catherine: Okay, good. I wasn’t quite sure but…

Janet: Right, Inclusive Designers has a sort of a double entendre because it’s not, I mean, it is about inclusivity, but it’s really also about inclusivity with other designers and sharing the information (yes). Right, and for you in particular, I mean, no matter where you go, you got to have some sort of light. Like you said, you got to go and illuminate the work that the designers do.

Catherine: Yes, so, I have my dream job. I get to work with really smart and creative big picture thinkers that make things every day that affect people’s health and wellness and productivity and all good things.

Janet: So, one of the things why I’m having you here today is we want to talk about health and wellness in terms of lighting and design. And I think the way to start this particular program is to perhaps talk a little bit about the circadian system. Can you talk to our listeners a little bit about that, and what is it, and why is it so important?

Catherine: Sure, sure… I think it’s a bit of a leap from architectural lighting to health and wellness, so, we want to kind of step through that. We know that light is not just visual. So the light that let us see the red ball and the puppy and the green grass is doing one thing, but we also have another photo receptor in the back of our retina that’s catching light before it gets to the imaging center and it heads directly to the brain. And we’ve been researching that since about 2012. We got some really good data on the fact that light also entrains our brain to a 24-hour cycle, and…

Janet: And that’s the circadian system.

Catherine: Yes exactly. So, if we have proper light exposure then we keep our master clock as it were, like the atomic clock of our body, on time and running all the other rhythms of our body healthfully. And that in turn is connected to your mental health, your physical activity, it even down the road has been connected to your odds of getting cancer and a lot of other illnesses. So, it’s connected to your immune system and your mental health which is connected to everything.

Janet: Right.

Catherine: So, we’re, the right amount of light comes from the fact that without light we actually fall into a longer than 24-hour day. So, if you’re on the moon or in a submarine without access to the sun, then you’re going to fall out of sync. You’ll be, you’ll have a little bit longer day, you’ll start going to bed later and then having a really hard time waking up, need two cups of coffee, three cups of coffee instead of just one and that’ll keep exacerbating itself and lead to health problems. There is another factor that we have to be aware of in this equation. Not only are we interested in light health, but the light health in turn impacts our sleep quality. And it’s the sleep quality that really regulates our hormone levels and our immune system and in turn leads to all of those mental and physical wellness issues that we’re becoming more and more aware of.

Janet: But isn’t healthy lighting just really just better daylight exposure.

Catherine: I love that question. Absolutely, that’s a great question to consider as architects and interior designers and lighting designers and wellness designers of all trades. Daylight is the original healthy lighting. And I think that education of the users and access to daylighting is still my primary passion in solving for healthy lighting. So wherever possible, we absolutely want to use daylight and daily habits of your users to regulate a healthy circadian system. (J: Right.) Where that is not practical, say for your submarine dwellers or your (J: Moonwalkers) night shift workers. Exactly, exactly. Or in buildings that really don’t have enough access to daylight. We want to provide full spectrum lighting systems that are a little bit higher output than we’ve historically been using in order to provide a stimulus that is significant enough during your morning especially and early afternoon hours so your circadian morning even if that’s not the sunrise.

Janet: Why is that important? Why is it the morning and the early afternoon? What makes those two times of the day particularly special for this, the circadian system.

Catherine: It gets really nerdy because it has to do with supporting your melatonin production and secretion. So, you don’t want to suppress melatonin in the evening. We want to (J: promote it) withdraw light exposure, especially from in the blue spectrum so that melatonin can be produced and expressed in your body. But in the morning, we want to wake you up and suppress melatonin so that it’s saved for the evening as it were.

Janet: And that is the blue lighting we hear about right, that’s the. (C: Yes.) the color Blue is very important, whereas Amber is more important later in the evening… am I understanding that correctly?

Catherine: Sure. So, it is really hot around a particular… (J: or am I simplifying it). No, it’s a good way too for people to relate to it, for sure. I think the word blue can be a little bit deceiving because not all light that looks blue is scary and awful for you. Your indicator light on the alarm clock or the TV is probably not going to hurt you at all. So, we try to when we’re providing a circadian stimulus, we want to accent that part of the spectrum and then when we want to allow you to calm down at night and not have that stimulus, you draw out all of the blue together. And yes, we would want to stay in more the amber. So, the color that light looks isn’t always true to its spectrum, but most likely you’re brighter and your bluer sources are the ones we want to avoid. So, your night shift app on your iPhone or the Android equivalent is actually doing just that for you. It’s filtering out the high end of the spectrum and it is dimming down the light level, because both of those are factors, the intensity and the color.

So, the visible light spectrum kind of starts, well it starts at around 400 nanometers, which would be the color Violet. And just beyond that outside the visible spectrum is infrared light which we cannot see, and that’s the threshold there is this Violet that is actually really super engaging to look at because it’s right at the visible light spectrum. And then we max out at about 700 nanometers, and that is our reds. So in between, every color, every nuance of color, has its own— four hundred twenty, four hundred thirty, four hundred fifty— nanometer value along the visible light spectrum. (Hmm!) Yeah! So, I want to see a nice little graph that has a curve along every nanometer value. And hopefully that’s not up and down a lot with maybe a lot of this blue but none of that blue and a lot of the green and none of that green. But I want to see a pretty smooth curve. And for circadian stimulus I want to see it going up in the 490 range which is the non-visual response peaks there.

Janet: Now is that particularly in the morning, is that, because that would be, right, part of the circadian system, it would be more advantageous to have the bigger blues in the morning, and then the more of the ambers, you know, in the evening. (C: less of the blue.) less of the blue, right.

Catherine: Exactly, exactly.

Both: C: See, you’re a pro… J: you’re a good teacher. I appreciate you being here… C: I love it. I’ll do it all day long. J: Okay, that’d be great. C: I do in fact. (laughter).

Janet: Okay, making sure we understand, we’re going through this process together. Thank you, Catherine. Alright, so to kind of keep moving forward, so how do we make sure we’re applying light strategies and in a helpful way and not continuing to create health issues within the built environment. I mean I know that, you know, one of the projects that you and I worked on, they had a fan that would turn on if they were go into the bathroom in the middle of the night and it was this high fluorescent light. And we recognized that this was very problematic for people trying to go back to bed after having gone to the bathroom before they, or you know in the middle of the night. Because the blue light, right, you know, was turning on and that was stimulating their brain… is that correct?

Catherine: Sure. In that project we had two huge factors working against us, both the auditory cacophony, (J: Right), and the light exposure.

Janet: When they turned on the light the fan, the overhead fan went on as well. So, you know it was a double whammy.

Catherine: They’re awake for sure. (J: Right.) Yeah, I think that short answer is that, it’s more important that we do act, then that we should be afraid of misapplying these strategies. Anything, any work we do to put in place these principles that we’ve talked about, you know withdrawing the blue spectrum in the evenings, providing extra stimulus intensity and blue spectrum in this circadian morning, both of those things are going to improve our average users’ “entrainment” is the term that we use for healthy circadian system. (J: Right). So, if we can take small steps by boosting light levels and in some instances using a spectral tuning system that allows us to take the blue in and out of the same light source. And ultimately encouraging our users to gain a little understanding about their own circadian system and how they should manage that beyond their say office space exposure (J: right). All those things are just going to do good in the long run.

Janet: Can we as designers design for people in homes, in their homes or how can people just who are listening who might be interested in trying to help their own circadian system within their own home. Do you have any suggestions on that?

Catherine: Yeah. This is actually my passion. I think that this is the way we solve this problem is by teaching everyone how to do it for themselves.

Both (overlapping): (C: I focus on the workplace simply because…) (J: That’s your job.) (C: so much of our population spends… it is also my job…) (J: It is your job, but you’re right, but we spend more and more…) (C: so much time) (J: in the office.) (C: Yes exactly.)

Catherine: But each of us actually have a little bit different natural day… So, it’s important to know— am I having trouble waking up? am I having trouble going to sleep? am I getting enough sleep? what is that sleep like? and I think eventually that will be a part of our fitness trackers. I think our light exposure will become something we track as well. Because it’s not a quick fix, it’s something that actually improves your health with the longer history of healthy entrainment. (J: Right). So, for most of us, we lean on the longer day side and the easy healthy maintenance for us to do, is make sure we get a minimum of 20 minutes and better, two hours…

Janet: 20 minutes of blue?

Catherine: … Of daylight. That’s your easiest way to get it. (J: Okay). There are of course some desktop luminaires that you can also get that are actually for SAD, Seasonal Affective Disorder.

Janet: We also live in New England. But it’s overcast too… and that can be you know that can affect people’s moods and I think that that’s partially because it’s the lack of sun.

Catherine: There’s actually a cap for our sensitivity to light so there’s a point at which the intensity no longer matters. And that’s relatively low threshold when you think about daylight because daylight can get really intense. (J: intense too) yes, yes in the hundreds of thousands of foot candles for luminance. So even on a cloudy day, you’re still getting almost the maximum level that your photo sensitive, your circadian sensitive to. So, it has a more of a mental impact, I think, than it’s having a physiological impact, those rainy days. But, your two hours in the morning, or 20-minutes if that’s all you can handle, sometimes that’s a commute. If you’re commuting in your car to work then you’re, you’re facing the cloud canopy or the sky glow. And that’s a great delivery of the illuminance that you’re looking for. Or if you can walk to work that’s also an excellent way to get it. (J: right) Or meditate with your eyes open maybe. Fun fact, your eyes, your eyelids actually filter out the blue. Isn’t that amazing.

Janet: That is amazing. So, when you talk about 20-minutes, so you’re talking about direct sun exposure and if you can’t get it from actual activity from outside. Right. And you’re talking about luminaires that can be, I’ve seen them, you said for the SAD, the Seasonal Affective Disorder. And so that’s one component that we can do. What about, what about like, helping us to go to bed at night. What would you recommend for that?

Catherine: So your morning two hours or 20-minutes whatever you can get, is going to help you peak melatonin in the evening at the right time so that your sleepiness and melatonin are coming together for you to really be able to go to sleep when you need to. But the second thing that you have to watch out for is, your slowing down rituals. So, at two hours minimum before you go to bed— better three to four— enabling something like the nightshift app on your phone so that you’re not getting too much illuminates from that, and slowing down on some of your social and physical activities, even not eating too close to bedtime— all of these are ‘Zeitgebers’— they all influence our circadian system. It’s just that light is such a huge factor. (J: Right). That’s the one we can control. But it’s helpful to take all of these into account. So, you start withdrawing your light and you start, maybe, getting off of social media and maybe you don’t work out right before bed and all these things will help in addition to your morning exposure, for you to be at the perfect spot to fall asleep and stay asleep for a good chunk of time. Yeah.

Janet: So, can you talk also a little bit about what you as a lighting designer would do within the built environment of say, like an office. Like what can we do to promote healthy lighting within the offices. As you pointed out, I mean, we spend so much of our day there.

Catherine: Yeah, yeah… A lot of what we’re doing is actually utilizing daylighting and really seeking to educate our user population. So, encouraging habits like taking a break, going outside, having a common space with really great access to daylight. So we want to, with the electric lighting system, provide a base level of a full spectrum and relatively high illuminance without any glare—we want to still be careful with glare and contrast issues—but ultimately, I think that we solve these with getting people up out of their desks and outside for a little bit. And providing common spaces everybody’s going to go to where they’ll really get that boost of daylight.

Janet: The daylight that they need. So, Catherine, you told me just recently a little bit about a showcase room, or showcase store, right, that you did recently here in Boston with the company, Lam partners, which is the company you work for. Can you tell us a little bit about the project? How did it come to be and what were the design issues within the circadian lighting and the lighting of the actual showroom itself?

Catherine: Sure, sure. Yes, that was a fascinating challenge from a wellness and just ergonomic standpoint. An existing showroom here in Boston, had not renovated the lighting system in quite a while, so lots of daylighting, some contrast issues because of that daylighting where the architectural lighting was underwhelming and causing some spaces to feel dark in contrast and not the amount of flexibility that they really need in a showroom. We would go through, you know, an initial collaboration with the client and the whole design team and talk about what it means to pursue WELL and how much that involves lighting…

Janet: And for our listeners that don’t know, can you explain a little bit about WELL…

Catherine: Sure yes, thanks for asking… WELL is a benchmarking system kind of like LEED and used in, mostly in commercial architecture, focused on health and wellness as opposed to sustainability like LEED is. So, encompassing all three of those things but really putting the users’ comfort and health and wellness first.

Janet: And there’s a bunch of different markers on WELL, W-E-L-L, and facets, and one of them is definitely lighting.

Catherine: Yes, yes. lighting is actually a huge component of WELL so and it can be complicated to navigate as a designer trying to calculate all of those goals

Janet: and especially within an existing building…

Catherine: …where you don’t always have great documentation existing and all about those materials and finishes, the translucency of your glass, and the finishes in the space. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. There were, there are two regular occupants in the showroom and then the rest are visitors throughout the day. So, we had a unique challenge of kind of following these occupants as they stationed in different desks throughout this space. It being a furniture showroom. So, not just one fixed perspective had to be considered, all of the possible perspectives of those few regular users. So, we ended up going with a cooler color temperature than they had previously, that kind of worked with their daylight exposure much better and brightened up the whole space a little bit. So even though there were so few regular occupants, we had to consider all of the places that they might be in and calculate their circadian stimulus from all of those angles and always starting with daylighting and in that case, we could actually achieve everything we were after with daylighting.

Janet: Well, we’re going to do a little something a little different. We’re going to try to mix it up a little bit… we talk about having an Inclusive Designers podcast be a helpful resource for other designers to come up with their own designs, and one of the threads that seems to be kind of keep going through is that evidence-based design for designing is still kind of new and we’re still kind of working out those kinks. So, one last question. Is there enough research, speaking of which, to start implementing these solutions just yet?

Catherine: Yes, I believe there is, definitely to start. There is a lot of research. There’s a very interesting conversation recently in the lighting design community about whether that research meets all the levels of say, an FDA approval. So, there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence. There’s a lot of really great research that has been done out of Harvard and out of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, both amazing programs who are on the leading edge of that. So, we do have a lot of feedback about a mindful system really producing, improving health and productivity and user satisfaction. But the only thing we should be careful about in the meantime as we start applying these is promising those benefits. Because while the research is there, I am not a medical professional so I cannot guarantee you those results. (J: Right.) I know that we can’t make any claims directly that ‘hey put this lighting in your space and (J: Right, put blue lighting…) and never get cancer’… Because I am not a doctor, I’m not a health care professional, but we have seen a lot of correlations and there is a lot of research out there that we can help improve, not just your wellness and your mood, but also your health in the long run by having access to healthy lighting. (J: Right.) But we have seen those correlations and there is enough knowledge in our user populations where they are already asking. And this is something they’re interested in. They know the benefit to themselves. So, there’s enough research to keep moving. Just be careful about what we promise.

Janet: … what we’re promising, right. Well it’s interesting. I mean, like you said, there’s been all sorts of research, there’s, but a lot of it seems to be the aftermath that they look at as anecdotal (C: Yes) there seem to be very, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of concrete evidence that data, that data shows that there’s a direct correlation. I think, it seems pretty obvious. I think it should be and I think you know because maybe of the advent of electricity we have had some real departure and has, you know, the electricity has given us a lot of benefits and helped us to live longer but I think it’s also been problematic in terms of how we conduct our lives. And I mean I know I can stay up pretty late and watch television and everything gets a little wonky for a while. But I find that all of that is, kind of just a kind of interesting. There’s, the studies that came out of, I want to say there’s a town in Japan and I think someplace in Helsinki, both who have taken their blue lights and their streetlights and changed them into some sort of Amber lighting some sort of… I can’t, you could have… (C: back to high pressure sodium.)

Janet: Oh… is that a lighting joke, I don’t know…

Catherine: It is a lighting a joke. I am such a nerd (J: I know) it would be back to the sources we were using before, which were very yellow. They, if you have, my car has a red and blue dial that tells me the temperature and in a couple of our tunnels around here that dial looks like two colors of grey. It’s because high pressure sodium it’s got only warm light and so specific of a spectrum that it doesn’t even hit the Reds. So, you can’t see red you can’t see blue. It’s a very narrow in the spectral power distribution and look like a needle. It’s right up and down on that specific nanometer. So, it’s great for nighttime lighting to not stimulate your circadian system but it’s not very efficient. So, I think we’ve gained a lot of efficiency, and it looks so nice and bright and clean with the really blue LED streetlights, but we didn’t need that much light and it’s possibly keeping us up later at night.

Janet: Catherine, (C: Yes.) Before I let you go. Are there any other specific examples you would like to give the listener about healthy lighting and what you would do as a designer to create healthy lighting for people.

Catherine: Sure, yes. A couple of things come to mind. Not just improving, I think, improved light levels and full spectrum sources, especially in health care, is very important. To have that a full morning of light exposure which helps to bring them back to a 24-hour daytime. That has actually many evidences to improving recovery time. So, if your room does not have access to daylight, absolutely, we want to provide a system that’s capable of mimicking the daylight effect on your circadian system. And then, we need to go a little step further and actually think about finishes. If I have a red wall, I’m not reflecting any blue light off that red wall. It was absorbed. I’m only reflecting the red light, (J: Okay), the red spectrum. So that choice of color of wall is influencing the efficiency of the light (J: of the light). Yes. And not just from a luminate standpoint, I could still read just fine under it. It just has much less of an impact on my non-visual system. So, moving a little bit further into finishes and, for the office environment as well, partition heights, bringing that down which is a movement on the WELL side and LEED as well… (J: Right) is allowing better light sharing between spaces and especially daylight penetration into this space.

Janet: Right, well, I think that that’s kind of fascinating and for the listeners out there, if they need any more information on healthy lighting, we all know where to go to. And Catherine thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.

Catherine: Thank you for having me, this is lots of fun.

Janet: Great, Thank you. If you would like to contact Catherine or get any other information and resources that we have talked about today, please go to Inclusivedesigners.com. Thank you very much. Thank you so much Catherine for being here today.

Catherine: Thanks Janet.

(Music- transition to Outro)

Carolyn: We hope you enjoy our Inclusive Designers Podcast and forum.

Janet: For more information on our guests, or on the design and research covered in this episode, please check out our webpage at: InclusiveDesigners.com

Carolyn: If you have any questions on today’s topic or have suggestions for future topics you’d like us to include, please shoot us an email at: [email protected]

Janet: And we look forward to your feedback as well. Until our next podcast episode… Stay well and stay well informed. Thanks again for listening.

Carolyn: Thanks again.