We all love a compelling growth story, but how do you tell whether you're buying substance or sizzle?

In this episode, we’re diving into one of the most exciting - and sometimes most dangerous - areas of the market: innovation. 

It’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, but how do you tell the difference between a company with a slick marketing pitch and one that’s genuinely building something transformative? 

To unpack this, Livewire's Chris Conway is joined by Steve Johnson from Forager and Martin Hickson from 1851 Capital.

Johnson and Hickson share what innovation means to them, the traits that set true disruptors apart, and the red flags that suggest hype over substance. They also cover how to assess competitive moats, and what metrics matter when profitability hasn't quite yet arrived. 

Of course, it wouldn't be an episode of Buy Hold Sell without some stock ideas, so the guests each share an ASX innovator that is underrated and the market might be missing, as well as the best innovator across any market cap segment.

Please note this episode was filmed on 10 September 2025.