Episode Overview

In this episode of the Ironclad Underwriting Podcast, host Jason Williams is joined by his wife and business partner, Angel Williams, along with fellow partner and former educator, Frank Patalano. Together, they dive into the importance of continuous education, the role of real estate events, and the mindset shifts that separate transactional hustling from transformational growth.

From lessons learned at national conferences to the power of mentorship and mindset, this conversation offers practical takeaways for both new and seasoned investors. Whether you’re looking to expand your knowledge base, connect with like-minded professionals, or learn from others’ mistakes instead of your own, this episode is packed with insights.

🗂 Topics Covered

• The value of education and networking in real estate investing
• Why some investors only learn through their own mistakes
• Transactional vs. transformational approaches in business and life
• How events and summits accelerate growth and shorten the learning curve
• The role of mindset in achieving long-term success

💡 Memorable Quotes

1. “You can’t coach somebody who doesn’t want it. You can talk till you’re blue in the face, and it’s not going to matter.” — Jason Williams
2. “Education and networking are super important aspects of every single part of all my businesses right now.” — Frank Patalano
3. “People aren’t always going to remember what you said or what you did, but they’re always going to remember how you made them feel.” — Maya Angelou

🎧 Connect with Jason:

✅ LinkedIn

✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

✅LinkedIn

🎧 Connect with Angel:

✅ LinkedIn

✅TAP Community

✅REI Rocks Podcast

✅ Summit

Overview

In this episode of the Ironclad Underwriting Podcast, Jason Williams and his business partner Frank Patalano tackle one of the biggest red flags in real estate underwriting, blindly plugging numbers into models without understanding what they mean. From overwritten formulas to unrealistic rent projections, Jason and Frank break down common mistakes they see investors and analysts make, and how these errors can cost deals, returns, and credibility. Whether you’re building your first model or reviewing your tenth, this episode will sharpen your eye for detail and help you spot the traps before they derail your underwriting.

Topics Covered

• Why blindly entering numbers into spreadsheets creates hidden risks

• Common pitfalls with rent premiums, occupancy rates, and renovation timelines

• Insurance and tax assumptions that can make or break a deal

• Loan-to-value (LTV) misconceptions in today’s lending environment

• The gap between gross scheduled rent and effective gross income

• How limited partners (LPs) often misinterpret projected returns

Quotes

✅“My red flag is just blindly putting numbers into a model, if you don’t understand how it’s calculated or how it affects your returns, you’re flying blind.”

✅“I’ve seen clients double dip, even triple dip on rent premiums, taking a property from $850 to $1,300 overnight. That’s not just unrealistic, it’s dangerous.”

✅“You can’t be blind on taxes. If you don’t plan for reassessment increases before you close, you’re stuck, and the county will take your property if you can’t pay.”

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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🎙️Episode Title

"Mindset Meets Metrics: Underwriting with Certainty, Clarity, and Confidence"

🔍Overview

In this episode of the Ironclad Underwriting Podcast, host Jason Williams sits down with business partner Frank Patalano and master coach Trevor McGregor to explore the deep link between mindset and successful commercial real estate underwriting. They break down why success is 80% psychology and 20% mechanics, how to protect yourself from market swings, and the importance of keeping both your emotions and your deal analysis in check. With real stories, proven frameworks, and practical advice, this episode gives listeners the tools to operate with certainty, clarity, and confidence, especially when handling other people’s money.

📌 Topics Covered

✅Why “white hot desire” drives results in real estate

✅The 80/20 rule of psychology vs. mechanics in success

✅Avoiding analysis paralysis and overconfidence

✅Reading and respecting red flags in deals

✅Surrounding yourself with experienced investors

✅Seeing failures as feedback, not defeat

✅The three C’s of underwriting: Certainty, Clarity, Confidence

✅How mindset impacts investor trust

✅Navigating market cycles with caution and opportunity in mind

✅Lessons from investors who lost everything due to poor risk management

💬3 Key Quotes

✅“Success is 80% psychology and 20% mechanics.” – Trevor McGregor

✅“There is no failure, only feedback.” – Trevor McGregor

✅“When you have certainty, clarity, and confidence in your underwriting, you give that same confidence to your team and your investors.” – Trevor McGregor

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

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🎧 Connect with Trevor:

✅LinkedIn

🔍 Episode Overview:

In this episode of Ironclad Underwriting, host Jason Williams is joined by business partner Frank Patalano to discuss one of the most common (and costly) red flags in real estate investing: relying on short-term trends for long-term decisions. From unsustainable rent growth projections to unrealistic interest rate assumptions, the duo breaks down the pitfalls of over-aggressive underwriting and emotional investing. This is a must-listen for investors, underwriters, and CRE professionals navigating volatile markets with uncertain futures.

📌 Topics Covered:

✅The trap of using peak rent growth projections (San Antonio & Phoenix case studies)

✅How low interest rates and aggressive refi assumptions led to financial ruin

✅Emotional investing and the illusion of permanent market conditions

✅Airbnb, oil, RV parks: how temporary trends lure in short-term thinkers

✅Why underwriting needs to account for cycles, not spikes

✅Lessons from missed deals, failed forecasts, and post-COVID volatility

✅The fine line between healthy risk and reckless optimism

💬3 Key Quotes:

✅”Markets run in cycles: you’ve got to think of the ups and the downs. Especially if you’re doing mortgages, not 30-year holds.”

✅”People were underwriting like interest rates would stay at 2.5% forever… then rates tripled.”

✅“Temporary trends feel permanent in the moment, but in real estate, the long game always wins.”

🎧 Connect with Jason:

✅ LinkedIn

✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

✅LinkedIn

🔍 Episode Overview:

In this eye-opening episode, Jason Williams and Frank Patalano dive deep into the critical principle of “trust, but verify” in commercial real estate underwriting. What starts as a conversation about mentorship and broker-provided information turns into a masterclass on due diligence. Highlighting real-world experiences with misleading offering memorandums, surprise costs, and costly omissions.

Whether you're buying a 100-unit property or a single-family rental, today’s discussion will give you the tools and mindset needed to avoid costly mistakes and make sound investment decisions. Jason and Frank cover everything from property taxes and insurance hikes to lease audits, metering myths, and Federal Pacific panel hazards.

📌 Topics Covered

✅Why “trust but verify” is a must, not just advice

✅How brokers use best-case assumptions (and why you shouldn’t)

✅Tax reassessments and insurance shockers post-acquisition

✅Hidden liabilities: leases, laundry contracts, and water heaters

✅Due diligence tactics: roof inspections, sewer scopes, lease audits

✅The danger of relying on pro formas and unverified underwriting

✅Building a third-party verification team: tax advisors, insurers, PMs

💬 3 Key Quotes:

✅"They’re showing you the tax of what they were last year, but that’s last year at a purchase price of $5 million, not when they’re selling it now at $14 million." - Jason Williams

✅ "It’s still a pig. Maybe it’s a little prettier, but they just put lipstick on it. And once it’s sold, the broker and seller couldn’t care less”. Jason Williams

✅"Even a $100,000 house can be a nightmare if you skip your due diligence” - Frank Patalano

🎧 Connect with Jason:

✅ LinkedIn

✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

✅LinkedIn

🎙️ Episode Overview

In this episode of Ironclad Underwriting, host Jason Williams is joined by his business partner Frank Patalano to dive deep into the real value of mentorship in commercial real estate. While not strictly a numbers-focused episode, this conversation explores how the right guidance can dramatically shorten your learning curve, accelerate deal-making confidence, and open doors that education alone can’t. From mentorship missteps to multimillion-dollar partnerships, Jason and Frank share honest lessons and strategies from their own journeys.

📌 Topics Covered

✅Why mentorship is the ultimate shortcut in commercial real estate

✅How to evaluate mentorship programs, and avoid the fluff

✅Personal stories about working with Joe Fairless, Trevor McGregor, and Rod Khleif

✅The difference between guidance and hand-holding

✅Ecosystem value: why mentorships are more than just coaching

✅Red flags in ineffective programs

✅The importance of accountability and putting in the work

💬 Key Quotes

✅"Mentorship turns decades into weeks or months. You don’t have to spend ten years learning something when the right mentor can help you take action fast."

– Jason Williams

✅"I’ve gotten more out of my real estate mentorship network than I ever did from my college degree—and I spent a lot on that degree."

– Frank Patalano

✅"A mentor won’t do the work for you, but they’ll lay the roadmap and keep you accountable—as long as you’re doing your part."

– Jason Williams

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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Joe's Book

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jason and Frank break down exactly how syndicators in commercial real estate make money, and why it's not only fair, but necessary for investors to want their GP teams to get paid. They discuss common fee structures, risk exposure, and the alignment of interests between general partners (GPs) and limited partners (LPs). If you're investing passively or considering syndicating a deal yourself, this is a must-listen.

📌 Topics Covered

✅The role of syndicators in a real estate deal

✅The importance of transparency around fee structures

✅Breakdown of common fees:

✅Waterfall structures and promote splits (e.g., 70/30, 80/20)

✅The risk syndicators take before a deal closes (earnest money, legal fees, due diligence)

✅Why GPs investing their own capital is a good sign

✅Red flags like high fees from inexperienced operators

✅The role of coaching programs in promoting fee structures

✅Why aligned incentives between GPs and LPs drive deal success

💬 Key Quotes

✅“Fun fact: I am in business to make money. 100% selfish in that regard.” – Frank

✅“The goal is for our limited partners to make money—and there's a goal for the general partners to make money as well.” – Jason

✅“The acquisition fee is not just gravy or pure profit... The GP team is taking on risk and fronting capital before a deal even closes.” – Frank

✅“If it’s in the PPM, even if it says I’m going to take your $100K and go to Vegas; and you signed it? That’s legal.” – Jason

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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Episode Overview:

In this value-packed episode of The Ironclad Underwriting Podcast, host Jason Williams and guest Frank Patalano break down the essential return metrics that every investor and operator must understand. From outdated expectations around IRR to the rise of AAR and the importance of cash-on-cash return, this conversation helps listeners sharpen their analytical toolkit. Whether you're raising capital, analyzing a deal, or preparing your next pitch, this episode gives you a no-fluff foundation on how returns really work, and how to spot misleading projections before it’s too late.

📌Topics Covered:

✅Why IRR is both useful and misleading

✅The shift from IRR to AAR and cash-on-cash in today’s market

✅Understanding how refis and capital events skew return metrics

✅The growing importance of equity multiple

✅How assumptions and timelines impact projected returns

✅The role of preferred returns in today’s capital stacks

✅Red flags in overly optimistic pro formas

✅Aligning investor expectations with actual deal structure

💬 Key Quotes:

✅“You shouldn’t really ever put a refi into your business plan, but you should plan to do a refi when it makes sense.”

✅“Cash-on-cash tells you about the stability of a deal, if the cash flow is consistent, that's where passive investors can breathe easy.”

✅“You can’t eat equity. You need a balance between appreciation and liquidity.”

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Ironclad Underwriting, host Jason Williams is joined by commercial real estate investor Frank Patalano to unpack one of the most essential concepts in commercial underwriting: the Cap Rate. They break down how it’s calculated, what influences it, and how rising interest rates impact valuations. Plus, they dive into forced appreciation strategies and why smart underwriting goes far beyond the cap rate itself.

📌 Topics Covered

✅ Why cap rates rise with interest rates, and the dangers if they don’t

✅ How to calculate a property's value using cap rate and NOI

✅ Market-based, class-based, and age-related influences on cap rate

✅ Real-world examples of forced appreciation and value-add strategies

✅ Why relying only on cap rate can mislead your investment outlook

✅ The difference between natural and forced appreciation

✅ The role of exit cap rate and how to forecast it responsibly

✅ Advice on finding your local market cap rate range

💬 Key Quotes

✅ "If you have a lower cap rate than your interest rate, you're asking for trouble—or you're taking on a horrible loan."

✅ "Cap rate is just a tool. Your real driver should be the return metrics—cash-on-cash, IRR, AAR—not the cap rate alone."

✅ "Tenants are your customers. If you're going to raise rents, give them something in return."

🎧 Connect with Jason:

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✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

✅LinkedIn

📖 Episode Overview

In this episode, Jason and Frank pull back the curtain on the most manipulated areas of underwriting: revenue assumptions and operating expenses.

They explore how pro formas can be engineered to look too good to be true, and how savvy investors can spot the red flags. From market rent games to unrealistic expense ratios, they break down what ethical underwriting really looks like in today’s market.

📌 Topics Covered

✅ Differences between market rent, in-place rent, and effective rent

✅ Revenue assumptions: Loss to Lease, Economic Vacancy, Other Income

✅ Underwriting manipulation: common tactics used by “bad actors”

✅ Expense benchmarks and what’s actually reasonable

✅ Operating expense ratios: understanding when numbers don’t add up

✅ How investors should challenge and verify assumptions

✅ Knowing when a pro forma is too good to be true

💬 Key Quotes

✅ “Revenue is the most commonly manipulated line item in underwriting—and the easiest to hide.”

— Frank Patalano

✅ “If your model shows a 35% expense ratio on a multifamily deal, you better have a really good story.”

— Jason Williams

✅ “Good underwriting is about creating a model that can fail gracefully—not just look great on paper.”

— Jason Williams

📚 Resources Mentioned

✅ NMHC Income & Expense Survey – industry-standard benchmarks for multifamily OPEX

✅ IRR Matrix Reports – cap rates, NOI, and return assumptions by market

✅ T12 & Rent Roll Deep Dive – tips for extracting truth from seller financials

🎧 Connect with Jason:

✅ LinkedIn

✅ https://IroncladUnderwriting.com

✅Linktree

🎧 Connect with Frank:

✅LinkedIn