Philosopher Justin Smith-Ruiu joins me for a deep conversation on Metaphysics, Consciousness, Philosophy of Science, Anthropology of Mind. Psychedelics, Ritual, Religion, Phenomenology, and the limits of modern materialism, centered around his new book ON DRUGS. Drawing on thinkers like Plato, Heidegger, Husserl, Descartes, Leibniz, Huxley, McKenna, and Claude Lévi-Strauss, Smith explores whether psychedelic experiences merely distort reality or instead reveal hidden dimensions of consciousness that modern Western philosophy has trained us to suppress. We discuss qualia, synesthesia, dreams, analogy versus truth, and the strange inadequacy of language when attempting to describe altered states. Along the way we explore object-oriented ontology, mysticism, the “excluded middle,” and why psychedelic experience often feels more real than ordinary waking life.The conversation moves far beyond the usual clichés about mushrooms and self-help. We discuss Aldous Huxley, R.C. Zaehner, Gordon Wasson, shamanism, cave paintings, ritual dance, Scythian burial mounds, Norse berserkers, Aztec peyote ceremonies, and the long human history of using drugs not merely for pleasure but for metaphysical exploration, warfare, revelation, and meaning-making. Smith argues that psychedelics do not contain some universal message, but instead “release a latent discourse,” amplifying symbols and structures already embedded within culture and consciousness itself. We explore why Western modern secular realism became so hostile to inner experience, why dreams and visions were downgraded in Western thought, and whether technological modernity flattened older modes of awe, transcendence, and participation in the cosmos.Toward the end, the discussion becomes deeply personal: atheism, ritual, Judaism, nostalgia, political religion, collective belief, and the moral dilemma of disenchantment. We talk about the difference between icons and idols, why ritual may possess value independent of literal belief, and whether humans—as Smith beautifully puts it—are creatures who “need the unnecessary.” From Apollo astronauts experiencing cosmic consciousness to psychedelic experiences that dissolve the boundary between self and world, this conversation asks a difficult question at the center of Smith’s book: do psychedelics actually help us think more clearly about reality, or do they simply force us to confront how mysterious consciousness already is?00:00 Coming Up...01:52 Intro to Justin Smith, Caveats on Drugs05:04 Mind and World: Philosophies Biggest Puzzle08:38 Some Channel Organization10:41 What Problem Is This Book Trying to Solve?16:13 Psychedelics, Synesthesia & Consciousness19:54 Breaking the Hallucination22:38 Plato vs Heidegger on Psychedelic Experience29:55 Phenomenology, Qualia & Reality33:24 Auto Experimentation39:46 Psychedelics and the “Excluded Middle”42:51 Oneiromancy vs Aristotle and Modern Science49:43 Witchcraft and Taking Seriously the Non Scientific52:48 Psychedelics as Rediscovery and Coming Home01:00:23 Levi-Strauss & “Latent Discourse”01:03:50 The Ethnographic Wassons01:09:45 “Humans Need the Unnecessary”01:15:21 Drugs In History01:19:03 More Than a Feeling01:21:31 The Apollo Astronaut Psychedelic Experience01:21:09 Galaxy Brain & Cosmic Consciousness01:25:05 Liebniz and Christianity01:30:52 Icon vs Idol01:40:46 Ritual, Religion & Collective Experience & The Moral Dilemma of Disenchantment01:48:00 Theology and Belief Commitment Variations01:54:40 Final Thoughts on Thinking Through PsychedelicsBECOME A MEMBER - MONTHLY MEMBERS ONLY LIVESTREAM https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NIku35U9thGG9WBJjE0sw/joinFor more from Jay visit whatjaythinks.com