Fears that the United States might be headed towards civil war feel slightly less overblown than they did just weeks ago...

With the US government shutdown, Republicans and Democrats in deadlock, and Deputy White House Chief of Staff Stephen Miller and Secretary of War Pete Hegseth 'unleashing' federal troops into cities like Memphis, America increasingly looks like a dangerous and divided nation. 

In a rare face-to-face conversation in Sydney, Geraldine Doogue sat down with veteran journalists Peter Baker (chief White House correspondent for The New York Times) and Susan Glasser (New Yorker correspondent and Lowy Institute board member) to discuss the psychology behind Donald Trump's war on 'the enemy within' and why a country like Australia should see this as a cautionary tale. 

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