“The danger now is not just in Palestine for Palestinians. It's gone well beyond that now. It's exported, the idea that you can export occupation, you can export the tools of occupation, the tools of apartheid. That is where we currently are in the early 2020s,” says The Palestine Laboratory author Antony Loewenstein. In this episode, Kelly talks with Loewenstein about how Israel has used Palestine as a laboratory for surveillance and war-making technologies. Loewenstein argues that Israel is aligning itself with far-right leaders, promoting an ethno-nationalist and authoritarian worldview, and making despotism “shareable with compact technology.” In this episode, Kelly also speaks with Ahmad Abuznaid, the executive director of the U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights, about the current situation in Gaza.

Music: Son Monarcas and Curved Mirror

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