During this first-ever sit down with Joe McKendrick, live from the MariaDB user conference, Jon talks with Joe about his recent articles on the impact of DevOps, agile, and digital transformation on IT - and the obstacles in the path. The guys talk about Joe's recent ZDNet articles and why over-hyped technologies like AI and machine learning fall short without a concerted change effort. Jon keeps his potshots about ZDNet's autoplay videos to a minimum as the guys move into a discussion of the new IT professional, and the rare combination of skills that the best IT pros need today. Note: original podcast file edit by Den Howlett.