Sam talks to Jeff Sharlet, author and journalist (The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy) and now his new book The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War. It's a must-read for understanding the moment we're in from someone who has closely followed the American fascist movement. Follow Jeff on Twitter at @JeffSharlet and Instagram: jeffsharlet.

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown