In this episode of the Straight White American Jesus Sunday Interview, host Leah Payne speaks with journalist Sam Kestenbaum about his reporting on celebrity pastor culture and the rise of the “hype priest.” The conversation centers on Kestenbaum’s widely discussed profile of Judah Smith, a “pastor-to-the-stars” connected to figures like Justin Bieber, and expands into a broader analysis of how millennial pastors have fused evangelical preaching with aesthetics, branding, and media performance.

Sam Kestenbaum is a journalist who covers religion in America, known for his deeply reported and stylistically distinctive profiles of contemporary spiritual figures. Based in Los Angeles, his work has appeared in The New York Times, Harper’s Magazine, Rolling Stone, and beyond, where he examines the intersections of faith, politics, and culture.

Together, Payne and Kestenbaum explore the Churchome experience in Los Angeles, pop-up worship in rented theaters, a creative-class audience, and a ministry shaped as much by production value and performance as by theology. They discuss how presentation - from clothing to sermon delivery - functions as a form of religious communication, as well as how figures like Judah Smith navigate political polarization by shifting toward a more therapeutic, individualized message. The conversation also maps a wider ecosystem of charismatic influencers, including those who lean more explicitly into conservative politics, and situates today’s media-savvy pastors within a longer lineage of charismatic power brokers shaping American public life.

In This Episode

Sam Kestenbaum’s profile of Judah Smith and the rise of the “hype priest”

The Churchome model: pop-up churches, celebrity culture, and Los Angeles creatives

Aesthetics, authenticity, and performance in contemporary evangelical preaching

The influence of Black Pentecostal styles on white charismatic leaders

Why some celebrity pastors avoid overt political alignment

The next generation: influencers, revival tours, and conservative media ecosystems

Figures like Greg Laurie and Bryce Crawford in the broader charismatic landscape

The enduring influence of leaders like Che Ahn and the question of political power

Links:

Sam Kestenbaum’s website: https://samkestenbaum.com/

“The Hype Priest Who Rode the Bieber Wave: Judah Smith’s message of grace earned him many famous followers. Is he out of step with other Evangelicals?” (Vulture / New York Magazine): https://www.vulture.com/article/judah-smith-church-pastor-justin-bieber.html 

“The Demon Slayers: the New Age of American Exorcisms” (on Greg Locke, Harper’s Magazine): https://harpers.org/archive/2024/08/the-demon-slayers-sam-kestenbaum-exorcisms/ 

“‘I Think All the Christians Get Slaughtered’: Inside the MAGA Road Show Barnstorming America” (on Clay Clark, Rolling Stone): https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/clay-clark-reawaken-america-maga-tour-trump-1234594574/ 

Find Sam Kestenbaum at https://samkestenbaum.com/

Find Dr. Leah Payne at drleahpayne.com , subscribe on Substack, follow her on most social media platforms at @drleahpayne, listen along at Spirit & Power: Charismatics & Politics in American Life and Rock that Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Rock, and read along: God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music.

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 Religion scholars Brad Onishi and Dan Miller recap a week of conflict in which Pope Leo criticized war and bombing in a statement widely read as aimed at the U.S. approach to Iran, prompting a lengthy Trump Truth Social attack and backlash over an AI image of Trump as Jesus. JD Vance and Speaker Mike Johnson told the Pope to “stay in his lane” and invoked just war theory, leading Miller to explain its criteria and argue the Iran conflict fails them; the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a response defending the Pope’s teaching authority and the church’s just war tradition. The hosts frame the dispute as exposing fissures within MAGA Christian nationalism, discuss claims of nationalism turning the nation and leader into God, and analyze Pete Hegseth’s rhetoric and prayer language as further evidence, alongside GOP figures and media urging the Pope to avoid politics while promoting religion in government.

00:00 Pope Versus Trump

01:07 Why Religion Matters

02:03 Iran War And Distraction

03:22 Papal Statement And Trump Blowup

04:16 AI Jesus Backlash

06:37 JD Vance Enters Fight

09:00 Pope Warns War Profiteers

10:14 Mike Johnson Just War Spin

11:53 Just War Theory Explained

15:58 Bishops Rebuke Vance

18:39 Fissures In Christian Nationalism

21:25 Aquinas And War As Evil

27:14 MAGA Splits And Catholic Voters

29:22 Vance Authority Christianity

32:32 Power Theology And Nationalism

35:33 Vance Versus Just War

37:07 Hegseth Pulp Prayer

38:57 Vengeance Voice Swap

44:35 TPUSA Flop Fallout

47:35 Trump As Messiah

52:27 GOP Tells Pope Quiet

56:21 One Way Christian Nationalism

59:16 Who Counts As Christian

01:03:40 Task Force Irony

01:05:35 Reasons For Hope

01:08:40 Discord Hope Stories

01:08:55 Closing Hope Notes

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What does it mean when cultural and religious conservatives proclaim that they affirm a “culture of life?” We know it means that they oppose abortion and abortion access. But what else does it mean? In this episode, Dan dives in to decode this message to look at the racial, gender, and social positions that are encoded in this seemingly familiar slogan.

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In this episode, Brad Onishi unpacks the escalating clash between Donald Trump and Pope Leo—from Trump’s public criticism of the Pope to the now-viral AI image depicting himself as Jesus. What might seem like another headline-grabbing controversy reveals deeper tensions between political power and religious authority, especially as figures like JD Vance attempt to downplay the conflict while advancing a broader ideological vision.

Going beyond the news cycle, this episode explores the concept of “civilizational populism” and how it helps explain the contradictions at play: a movement that invokes Christianity and Western civilization while sidelining actual religious institutions and leaders. By tracing the intersection of theology, nationalism, and political strategy, Onishi offers a framework for understanding why this moment matters—and what it signals about the future of religion and power in American public life.

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In this episode, Brad Onishi is joined by world-renowned New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman to explore the origins of the Western moral conscience through his latest book, Love Thy Stranger. The conversation challenges the common assumption that altruism is a "natural" human impulse, revealing instead how the ancient Greco-Roman world operated on a logic of social dominance and power. Ehrman traces the evolution of ethics from the specific tribal obligations found in Leviticus to the radical, apocalyptic vision of Jesus, who demanded care for the "stranger" as a universal requirement. By examining how this revolutionary Jewish framework was later institutionalized by the early church and the Roman Empire, they uncover why modern Westerners—regardless of their personal faith—still view charity and humanitarianism as a moral imperative.

The discussion also dives into the practical friction between Jesus’ universalism and Paul’s communal ethics, providing a fascinating historical roadmap of how Christian morality became the baseline for Western civilization. From the communal sharing models in the book of Acts to modern-day secular institutions like Doctors Without Borders, Ehrman argues that our contemporary "moral software" is deeply rooted in 1st-century radicalism. To ground these lofty concepts, Ehrman shares a poignant personal reflection on the community response to Hurricane Helene near his home in Asheville, NC, illustrating how these ancient ethical seeds continue to bear fruit in times of modern catastrophe.

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In this week's episode, Brad Onishi navigates a high-stakes intersection of nuclear brinkmanship and theological crisis. The discussion centers on the fallout of Operation Epic against Iran, specifically Pete Hegseth’s assertion that God deserves "all the glory" for the military strike. Brad deconstructs this "Fox News theology," forcing a confrontation with the classic problem of evil: if a victory is divine, how does one account for the collateral damage of a bombed girl’s school? This moral tension coincides with a potential fracture in the MAGA coalition, as even staunch media allies like Joe Rogan and Alex Jones begin to voice public concern over Trump’s threats to Iranian civilization and the looming specter of nuclear winter.

The episode then shifts to an explosive diplomatic confrontation between the Pentagon and the Vatican. Guests Dr. Thomas Lecaque and Rebecca Bratten Weiss join the show to unpack a bombshell report detailing a meeting where Under Secretary Elbridge Colby allegedly pressured Cardinal Christopher Pierre to align with U.S. interests. By invoking the Avignon Papacy—a historical period where the papacy was essentially held captive by the French monarchy—the administration issued what Lecaque describes as a "mafia-style threat" to the Holy See. The panel explores the doomed fantasy of Catholic integralism and the burgeoning rift between those following the teachings of Jesus and those weaponizing faith for geopolitical dominance.

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Josh Hawley tells us that blue-collar and manual labor are the domains of true masculinity. He tells us that they are the path to freedom, and meaning, and purpose. He tells us that men have no social value if they do not undertake this kind of work. But is any of this true? Does this kind of work bring us the freedom he claims? Is he really the voice of “working men?” Or is he another elitist who benefits from the exploitation of workers while masquerading as a liberator? Dan argues that this is the real story. Listen to this week’s episode to find out why.

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In this episode of Straight White American Jesus, we sit down with New Mexico Attorney General Raúl Torrez for a wide-ranging conversation about his office’s landmark case against Meta and what it reveals about the dangers embedded in today’s social media platforms. At the center of the case is “Issa,” a fictional teenage user created as part of an undercover operation that exposed just how quickly young users can be targeted with explicit content and sexual solicitations. Torres walks us through how what once existed in the darkest corners of the internet has migrated onto mainstream platforms—and how Meta’s own algorithms and product design not only failed to stop it, but in some cases appeared to amplify it. By focusing on design choices rather than user-generated content, Torres and his team were able to sidestep Section 230 protections and argue that the platform itself plays an active role in facilitating harm.

The conversation also explores the broader implications of the case, from the addictive nature of social media to its parallels with Big Tobacco. TorreZ argues that waiting for definitive long-term studies on harm is a luxury we can’t afford, pointing instead to the immediate psychological, social, and physical risks facing young users. Looking ahead, he outlines potential remedies—including age verification, algorithmic reform, and independent oversight—as well as ongoing litigation against other platforms like Snapchat. The discussion closes with a warning about the next frontier: artificial intelligence. Without clear accountability and proactive regulation, Torrez suggests, the harms posed by AI could eclipse those of social media. This case, then, may represent not just a legal victory, but the beginning of a broader shift toward tech accountability in the United States.

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Annika Brockschmidt sits down with historian AJ Bauer to dismantle the long-standing myth that the "liberal media" narrative was a natural reaction to biased reporting. Bauer, drawing from his book Making the Liberal Media, traces a century-long strategic project that began not with an outcry against progressivism, but with conservative efforts in the 1930s and 40s to flip a then-right-leaning press. From the grassroots mobilization of oil tycoon HL Hunt’s Facts Forum to the calculated exploitation of the Fairness Doctrine, Bauer reveals how the American Right didn't just abandon mainstream journalism—they systematically built a parallel media universe by borrowing tactics from the very progressive reformers they claimed to oppose.

The conversation dives deep into the ideological split between William F. Buckley’s quest for respectability and the John Birch Society’s alternative infrastructure, showing how both paths converged to create the modern conservative media machine. Bauer explains how the "objectivity imperative" of the 20th century actually left mainstream journalists vulnerable to right-wing pressure, forcing them to constantly look over their "rightward shoulder" to prove their lack of bias. By the time the Fairness Doctrine was abolished in 1987, the groundwork had been laid for the rise of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, ultimately transforming conservative media from a movement tool into an independent power source that paved the way for the Trump era.

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In this episode of Straight White American Jesus, hosts Brad Onishi and Dan Miller unpack a chaotic and revealing week at the intersection of politics, religion, and power. As Donald Trump once again compares himself to Jesus during the lead-up to Easter, the hosts explore what they see as a deepening pattern of religious distortion within MAGA Christianity—where theological consistency gives way to political loyalty. The conversation situates Trump’s rhetoric alongside broader trends, including a controversial decision tied to U.S. Supreme Court on conversion therapy laws and mounting concerns over religious favoritism within the Pentagon under Pete Hegseth. Together, these developments paint a picture of a movement increasingly defined by power, hierarchy, and ideological purity rather than coherent moral or theological principles.

The episode also dives into the implications of an 8–1 Supreme Court ruling that weakens state-level bans on conversion therapy, raising urgent questions about free speech, medical ethics, and the vulnerability of LGBTQ+ individuals. Onishi and Miller highlight the emotional and political weight of the decision, especially amid rising hostility toward queer and trans communities. They close with a discussion of the scandal surrounding Kristi Noem and her husband, using it as a lens to push hypocrisy, gender norms, and the authoritarian logic of “order” that underpins Christian nationalism. Despite the heaviness of the topics, the hosts end with cautious optimism, pointing to signs of political pushback and everyday acts of resistance as reasons for hope.

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