Kate Woodsome is the founder of The Invisible Threads Project, which studies the relationship between mental health and democracy. We talked about the recent election of Trump and the support for that process from the Heritage Foundation, Opus Dei implications, and Project 2025. She was part of The Washington Post team who won a Pulitzer Prize for Public Service in coverage of the January 6th Capitol attack. Woodsome left The Washington Post in 2023, stating in her biography that she could no longer normalize the trauma, burnout, and moral injury pervasive in the industry. She noted in our discussion that her childhood contained abuse and trauma that the Capitol attack would reawaken. Once able to rely on being a workaholic who pushed through, she decided to take a step back and focus on healing and the rediscovery of self-identity and self-worth. This eventually allowed her to return to focus on social movements. She covered The People’s March on January 18th, 2025, and then went on to speak with Trump supporters outside of the Capital One Arena in Washington, D.C., following his inauguration. “What I’m really trying to focus on is civil discourse and looking at the underlying roots of our problems, as opposed to their ugly symptoms,” said Woodsome.We discussed looking for opportunities with family and friends to find common ground and common beliefs. We also discussed empowering people to think for themselves. Not everyone is as radicalized, and fringe members may not fully understand the beliefs and practices of the core community.

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Kristofer Goldsmith is the founder and CEO of the nonprofit group Task Force Butler Institute, which trains veterans in research and operations to counter extremism. He is an Iraq combat veteran, accomplished public policy advocate, nonprofit leader, and expert on the threats posed by domestic extremist organizations that work against Democracy. His group focuses on gathering intelligence on dangerous individuals and hate groups while also teaching the skills and context necessary to keep veterans and communities safe. Like me, Kris couldn’t believe Trump gave pardons to the violent #Jan6th insurrectionists serving time in jail for their crimes against America. We both believe we are in World War III and fighting fascism at home. Musk, Thiel and other billionaires are on the record that they dont believe in democracy of upholding the Constitution nor do they want to help the USA remain a superpower. They are busy with NeoTech conspiracy to take over the world and dismante our administrative state using the Heritage Foundation’s 2025 playbook. Kris is a patriot and has inspired many vets to step up with him to oppose what is being done to us. You will find this a fascinating conversation and be heartened that he is a courageous person stepping up to do defend our country.

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This interview had two foci: ISKCON and Tulsi Gabbard’s Connection to Krishna Hinduism and his new academic book on music and its role in psychedelics states. Gelberg was a Krishna devotee for 17 years and has written about his experiences with the cult and why he exited. He is now a successful photographer and author. We discussed the more recent finding that Tulsi Gabbard, nominated by Trump to be Director of National Intelligence, shows ties to Krishna Hinduism and ISKCON. Chris Butler, who is the guru of Tulsi Gabbard, was a disciple of the Krishna movement and Prabhupada. The group is known for its homophobia. “The Krishna movement also is very misogynistic. They try to hide that. They don’t like talking about it. They know it's not popular, but if you go to Prabhupada's books, he repeats what he learned from the Hindu tradition about women being lesser and needing to be always under the control of a man and less spiritually adept than men are” Steven said. He then expressed concerns about ties with this organization and what that may mean by Gabbard’s beliefs around these topics. In addition to his spiritual and academic education after leaving the cult, Gelberg continued to tune into an evolving “Psychedelic Renaissance” as the government began to loosen regulations allowing for legitimate clinical studies and inspiring the creation, by growing numbers of colleges and universities, of programs and centers for the study of psychedelics and their therapeutic effects.

Learn more about Steven Hassan and Freedom of Mind Resource Center. Visit freedomofmind.com

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Ever hear the term coercive control? Did you know the UK government made it a crime? It is the application of undue influence methods and techniques used by a person, typically a man against a partner to do what I have been calling mind control- as in my BITE Model. However, women especially need to know what the techniques are and how to navigate a family court system in the USA which is largely ignorant and children and women are being greatly harmed. Dr. Cocchiola holds a doctorate in social work, is a licensed clinical social worker, is a tenured college professor, and is an expert in coercive control as is Amy Polacko, an award-winning journalist and investigative reporter, and divorce coach.Their excellent book is a resource for women going through divorce, married women noticing early warning signs, and those considering marriage, offering practical advice and raising awareness of systemic challenges.Despite persistent myths that women are more often favored, family courts can be gender-biased, and some women who report abuse encounter even harsher outcomes. The authors aim to inspire reform in family court practices and contribute to future legislative efforts to protect women from abusive legal dynamics.

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Former cult members often reference the moment when they finally realized they were in a cult. In 2023 the Watchtower Society reported approximately 8.6 million members. Like many cults, Jehovah's Witnesses discourage critical thinking and members' exposure to any information that could be critical of the belief system. Such insolation from the real world is one way to keep people brainwashed. For Andre Jackson, who grew up as a Jehovah's Witness, this moment of "waking up" became the focus of his Doctoral dissertation. Andre grew up in Germany, where his mother became a Jehovah's Witness when he was 7 years old. By the age of 10, Andre accepted the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses: When he almost needed a blood transfusion (which the group teaches to be a transgression against God), he rejected it and was willing to die for his belief. Andre focused his dissertation research on the waking up process of Bethelites, Jehovah’s Witnesses who live and work in the Bethel compounds. Around 0.25% of Jehovah's Witnesses, around 22,000 individuals, are Bethelites. So how do people "wake up"? Come join us in this fascinating discussion.

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"Conversion therapy"—a discredited practice that purports to change an individual's sexual orientation and/or gender identification and expression—has harmed countless lives under the guise of morality. I spoke to Lucas Wilson, an SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at the University of Toronto Mississauga, as he shared his harrowing experience with "conversion therapy" at Liberty University. His story serves as a testament to the perseverance of the unique human spirit and a warning against the devastating impacts of undue influence. A scholar, editor, and advocate, Wilson's work sheds light on the intersections of evangelicalism, homophobia, and trauma. He is the editor of the forthcoming Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors' Stories of Conversion Therapy, which compiles narratives from 17 contributors, offering diverse perspectives on a practice that major medical, psychiatric, and psychological organizations have condemned. A recent Canadian study cited by Wilson underscores the two most impactful ways to support survivors of "conversion therapy": listening without judgment and reconnecting with affirming communities. Survivors benefit immensely from being heard and validated. Listening affirms their experiences and begins the process of rebuilding trust. Additionally, reconnecting with a supportive queer community provides a safe space for healing and affirmation, countering the isolation imposed by conversion practices. Wilson's story is not just about survival but also about transformation. It highlights the dangers of unhealthy influence while demonstrating the power of education, community, and self-acceptance. As conversations around "conversion therapy" and undue influence continue, stories like Wilson's remind us of the urgent need for advocacy and awareness. Together, we can create a world where everyone can live authentically without fear or shame.

Learn more about Steven Hassan and Freedom of Mind Resource Center. Visit freedomofmind.com

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Carol highlights the urgent need to reform the law, especially concerning coercion and control in legislative practices. She focuses exclusively on clients who have endured sexual abuse and coercion within cultic groups—not because other forms of abuse are absent, but because the law currently recognizes and addresses this specific type of abuse. The legal system inadequately acknowledges coercion in cases where individuals surrender significant amounts of money to cults or relinquish their rights to education, marriage, parenthood, or the choice not to have children. The law appears to narrowly define coercion, primarily in the context of sexual exploitation. The law also fails to recognize the deception involved when individuals are promised enlightenment through sexual relations with cult leaders, as it does not categorize this as fraud due to its religious context. There should be a legal distinction between legitimate religions deserving of tax exemptions and those that systematically defraud, enslave, or control individuals through coercion. We should not grant tax benefits to organizations that violate the law. Yet, currently, there is no clear standard for religious tax exemptions beyond the essential requirement that organizations do not operate as commercial enterprises. Merchasin is a former partner at Morgan, Lewis, and Bockius in Philadelphia, where she was an employment lawyer investigating issues of sexual misconduct in the workplace. She is currently the head of Sexual Misconduct in Spiritual Communities Counsel at the law firm of McAllister Olivarius, which represents survivors of sexual misconduct in cults and spiritual communities. Check out this important interview.

Learn more about Steven Hassan and Freedom of Mind Resource Center. Visit freedomofmind.com

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Many people daydream, and this is an entirely normal part of life. However, when daydreaming is taken to the extreme and creates psychological distress or impairs functioning, it can be considered maladaptive and may require intervention. Trauma causes many issues for survivors, whether the trauma was sustained in one event or many events over many years. Cult survivors exhibit symptoms of trauma ranging from PTSD and trust issues to guilt and shame. Some trauma symptoms develop because of the defense mechanisms our minds employ to save us from the trauma. The DSM-V-TR lists brainwashing and cult coercive persuasion as a dissociative disorder. As an expert on dissociation and hypnosis, I wanted to learn from Eli Somer, Ph.D., professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Haifa School of Social Work. Professor Somer’s interests have led him to research trauma and its effects. One effect of trauma can be dissociation, a psychological process in which a person disconnects from their thoughts, feelings, memories, or sense of identity, often as a response to trauma or stress. Professor Somer coined the term maladaptive daydreaming, a dissociative disorder characterized by excessive, immersive daydreaming that disrupts daily functioning and serves as an escape from reality. There are many other fascinating topics we cover including use of psychedelics, false memories, and non use of hypnosis. Come join us!

Learn more about Steven Hassan and Freedom of Mind Resource Center. Visit freedomofmind.com

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Dustin Rozario Steinhagen, PhD is a privacy expert who recently graduated with his doctorate degree in Cyber Defense from Dakota State University. His dissertation is titled “Defending the security of the mind: A mail survey of thought-reform literacy in South Dakota.” This quantitative analysis measured “what everyday people know about thought reform and psychologically manipulative groups.” One of the most powerful defenses a person can have against mind hacking is admitting they are vulnerable to it. After that, skills can be acquired and built upon to teach people how to protect themselves further. However, we mustn’t let our guard down when it comes to our brains and minds coming under attack. Like anti-virus software needing updates to protect against the latest cyber threats, our minds also require ongoing learning to maintain psychological security in addition to adequate rest, play, and sleep. Influences are also more challenging to detect, more frequent in occurrence, from multiple directions, and require vigilance when interacting with different levels of trusted or untrusted sources. Having trusted groups who respect personal privacy and have our best intentions in mind becomes extremely important in such an environment.

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Professor Boyle is a full-time faculty member at St. John’s University School of Law, New York (since 1994). She is a board member of the International Cultic Studies Association. She has written Law journal articles on using Trafficking law to prosecute cult leaders and uses my BITE Model of Authoritarian Control. Robin’s new book, Taken No More: Protecting Your Children Against Traffickers and Cults, will be published in 2025. Her articles, essays, and book chapters appear in legal and academic publications, many peer-reviewed. She writes and publishes on topics of undue influence, using the human trafficking statutes to prosecute cult leaders, the Violence Against Women Act, gaining emancipation for youth, rape laws, and stalking. Her articles, essays, and book chapters appear in legal and academic publications, many peer- reviewed. She regularly presents at conferences domestically and internationally (Canada, China, England, France, and Spain) on topics concerning human trafficking and coercive control in high-demand groups. The laws need to be updated to protect human rights. Join us for a fascinating discussion.

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