This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein discusses how difficult it can be to be the lone dissenting voice when others admire a narcissistic partner or cult leader. She describes serving on a jury involving an unhoused African American man accused of a store break-in based on grainy security footage, where other jurors argued the evidence was “close enough” and pushed for a quick unanimous verdict to avoid discomfort. When Rachel insisted there wasn’t enough evidence, they faced shunning and personal attacks, which strengthened their resolve. The experience is used to illustrate scapegoating, social pressure, and how crucial it is for friends and family to reassure isolated people in controlling or cultic situations that they’re not alone and safe to change their minds. 

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein speaks with Melissa Duge Spiers, who talks about growing up inside the Seventh-day Adventist Church — and the hidden cost of its end-times, high-control culture. Her book, ‘Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows,’ traces Adventism's roots back to the 1840s Millerite movement and the visions of prophet Ellen White, whose experiences Spiers connects to traumatic brain injury and temporal lobe epilepsy.

Melissa unpacks how information control, purity culture, and anti-LGBTQ teachings shaped her patriarchal, fear-based upbringing, and how those same dynamics played out in the church's boarding academies. She shares what it took to leave at 18, the devastating discovery that followed about her own father, and how that truth cracked open a much deeper reckoning with everything she'd been taught. This conversation covers religious trauma, institutional betrayal, and how social media is helping ex-Adventists find each other and speak out.

Melissa’s Links

Book: https://www.lakedrivebooks.com/books/holy-disobedience/

Substack: https://melissadugespiers.substack.com/about

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.glory.whole/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theglorywhole

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode of IndoctriNation, Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, MSEd, welcomes back Andrew Jasko, psychotherapist and comparative religion scholar, for a deep and honest conversation about growing up inside evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity — and the long road to recovery from religious trauma.

Andrew grew up as a minister's son, immersed in a world of intense devotion, purity culture, missionary ambitions, and fear of eternal punishment. What he didn't yet have language for were the lasting psychological effects: shame, anxiety, religious OCD, sexual repression, thought policing, and hell trauma. Through therapy, he came to understand these not as personal failings, but as predictable outcomes of a high-control, fear-based system — one that functions much like narcissistic abuse.

Rachel and Andrew also explore the broader cultural forces that sustain spiritual abuse, including biblical mistranslations, harmful theological ideologies, and evangelism as a guilt-driven form of religious imperialism. Their conversation closes on the themes at the heart of cult recovery: reclaiming agency, rebuilding self-trust, learning to set boundaries, and finding wholeness within lived experience.

Andrew’s Links

Website: https://lifeafterdogma.org/

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein reflects on cult survivor and former supermodel Hoyt Richards and provides background on the high-control group at the center of HBO's 'Bring Me The Beauties: A Model Cult.'

The group was led by Frederick von Mierers, a self-styled Manhattan socialite claiming authority from alien beings. He recruited through Studio 54, high-society circles, seminars, and media. Members endured public "slamming" sessions, strict behavioral control, financial exploitation, and apocalyptic preparation at a North Carolina compound.

Richards joined in the late 1970s, spent nearly two decades inside, and became one of the group's primary financial backers. His exit in 1999 contributed to the group's collapse. He has since spoken publicly through the BBC and the HBO docuseries and has worked with Rachel on cases. Hoyt Richards will return for a future episode.

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Carol Merchasin returns, and this time, Rachel and Carol go deep on what it actually looks like when survivors of coercive control, spiritual abuse, and high-control groups consider taking legal action.

Carol shares how her career shifted from corporate employment investigations to building a litigation practice focused on religious misconduct and cultic settings, and what landmark cases reveal about how the law interprets coercion, consent, and systems of control.

What happens when a survivor wants justice, but the legal system wasn't built for them? Carol walks through the real barriers: statutes of limitations, evidence demands, credibility challenges, and the emotional toll of depositions and mediation, especially for those carrying religious trauma or the psychological weight of cult recovery.

She also explains how the right litigation team can become part of the healing process, why journals and social media posts matter more than most people realize, and what truly trauma-informed support looks like when therapy and legal advocacy work together.

Plus: Carol shares her role as ICSA board president and highlights the upcoming ICSA conference in San Diego on July 1 — a vital gathering for researchers, clinicians, and advocates working at the intersection of faith deconstruction, coercive control, and survivor justice.

Carol’s Links

ICSA Conference: https://internationalculticstudies.org/

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, MSEd, sits down with Jared Stacy, PhD, who is a theologian and ethicist. He is the author of "Reality in Ruins: How Conspiracy Theory Became an Evangelical Crisis." They sit down for a deeply personal and clinically resonant conversation about radicalization, religious trauma, coercive belonging, and the courage it takes to say "I don't know."

Jared grew up inside fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, attended Liberty University, and was a pastor before a years-long crisis of faith led him to Scotland — and eventually back home. His book draws on that journey to examine how conspiratorial thinking takes root in high-control religious communities, and why belonging and certainty can be prioritized — fueling everything from QAnon to Christian nationalism to the weaponization of forgiveness in abusive church settings. If you've ever watched someone you love disappear into a belief system you don't recognize, this conversation is for you. 

Jared Stacy’s Links

Website: https://jaredstacy.com/about/

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Reality-Ruins-Conspiracy-American-Evangelical/dp/0063453754

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, examines how victim blaming functions across abusive relationships, sexual violence, cults, and high-control religious environments — and why it remains one of the most pervasive obstacles to survivor recovery.

Rachel discusses why those who cause harm often present as calm and credible while survivors, navigating the effects of trauma, are met with skepticism. She explores the role of guilt in maintaining emotional captivity, and how coercive control can be obscured through isolation, financial manipulation, reality distortion, dependency, and the gradual erosion of identity. The conversation offers language, context, and validation for survivors working to understand their experiences, as well as insight for those supporting them.

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, Daniella Mestyanek Young returns to IndoctriNation to discuss how cults exploit group dynamics. Born three generations into the Children of God, then a U.S. Army intelligence officer, Daniella has spent her career studying coercive control from the inside out. In her new book The Culting of America, she lays out a 10-part model of cult tactics — the same playbook used in religious cults, high-control workplaces, the military, single-family cults, and even fandoms.

Rachel Bernstein and Daniella Mestyanek Young unpack why social proof makes us doubt our own eyes, why every cult seems to promise some version of "space travel," and what really separates brainwashing children from brainwashing adults. They also get into the warning signs every parent, employee, and former believer should know — and the small, daily reframes that loosen a coercive grip.

Daniella’s Links

Book: https://knittingcultlady.com/products/the-culting-of-america?variant=45519679160451

Website: https://knittingcultlady.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellamyoung_/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@knittingcultladycaptain

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with Lindsey Sanders to talk about her memoir, The Sacred Song of a Heretic, and what it means to reclaim "sacredness" outside of a high-control religion.

Lindsey was raised in a multigenerational Mormon family, where she was taught to value obedience, certainty, traditional gender roles, a limited range of acceptable emotions, and avoidance of outside sources of information. As a teenager, a relationship with another girl set off a chain of guilt, parental discipline, and repentance that pushed her to "double down" on her faith.

Then, in 2019–2020, her brothers' decision to leave the church prompted Lindsey to research Mormon history for herself. Within six months, she walked away. 

Rachel and Lindsey dive into the long process of deprogramming — therapy, finding the online ex-Mormon community, a C-PTSD diagnosis framed through the lens of religious and spiritual abuse, and Lindsey's perspective on Mormon Church policies toward LGBTQ and trans members.

This is a conversation about indoctrination, identity, leaving a high-control religion, and what healing can look like when you start trusting your own voice again.

Lindsey’s Links

Book: https://a.co/d/00nrrG6s

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehealingexmo/

Substack: https://thehealingexmo.substack.com/

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 

In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein unpacks the idea of "cults of two" — one-on-one relationships that can carry the same coercive control, manipulation, and reality-distortion found in larger high-control groups.

How does a single person create cult-like power without a group? Rachel breaks down the tactics manipulators use to isolate, discredit, and slowly reshape a victim's sense of reality — and why leaving these relationships can feel impossible, even like betrayal.

If you've ever wondered how narcissistic abuse, trauma bonding, and gaslighting take hold in a relationship, this episode offers language and clarity for what's really happening beneath the surface.

Connect with us on social media: 

⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠

Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 

https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠

Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:

https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION

Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:

⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠

Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 

https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm

Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4

Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:

https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign

Journal App: 

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html

Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:

https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html

IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:

⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about