Celeste Gross joins the girls to talk about her experiences growing up in the Children of God - aka the Family - along with her many siblings. She explains how her parents joined when it still just seemed like a beautiful gospel movement that helped her dad get sober, but how it changed over time once they lived on a commune in Brazil and became reliant on donations for survival. She shares how every part of life was controlled–down to how many squares of toilet paper they were allowed to use.

They discuss the media ban the group imposed, and how only songs and TV shows made by the group were allowed--other than two very specific movies (which will surprise you). She shares how her family became homeless overnight after they finally left, and the extreme hardships they faced while trying to rebuild a life from nothing.

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This week, Dan Olson, creator and host of YouTube channel Folding Ideas, returns to continue the conversation on cryptocurrency and NFTs. They discuss how these bubbles are driven primarily by charismatic leaders, why success rates of investment are similar to MLMs (read: the vast majority of investors don’t win big), and how there’s a lot of shame around having lost money in this arena–but why more men should come forward with their stories.

Dan explains why there’s no inherent difference between scam cryptocurrencies and so-called “real” cryptocurrencies, since all are rooted in speculation and faith, where the line is between greed and just being a victim of American prosperity gospel, and what to look out for to prevent yourself from getting scammed.

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This week, Dan Olson of the YouTube channel Folding Ideas joins the show for a deep dive into crypto, NFTs, and why so many of these spaces start to feel less like finance and more like belief systems. He breaks down the history of Bitcoin, what cryptocurrencies actually are, and how NFTs exploded into the mainstream, with investor communities promising not just wealth, but destiny–as long as they suppress their doubt and stay in line.

They discuss the gender divide and whether crypto is MLMs for men: same promises of prosperity, different packaging. Plus, some of the insider jargon and acronyms used to shut down skepticism, and how it all added up to a financial technology becoming a social identity.

And stay tuned for part two next week, when Dan will zoom in on the role of charismatic leaders in driving the decision-making.

SOURCES

Folding Ideas

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This week is part two with Liz Cameron, author of Cult Bride and survivor of Korean religious group Jesus Morning Star, also known as JMS. Last week she discussed the slow process of indoctrination into the group, and this week Liz shares how she learned the community's deepest secret: the mysterious Pastor Joshua was actually named Jung Myung-seok, but he was REALLY the Second Coming of Jesus. And yes, he was currently sitting in prison in South Korea for committing sexual assault… but don’t worry, that was just because of persecution.

Liz explains how all the carefully planned indoctrination leading up until this point primed her to be able to accept something like this, how she’d been identified to be one of the brides of the leader, what happened when she traveled to Korea to meet him in person, and how the eating disorder re-triggered by the group landed her in the hospital—but ultimately helped her get out of the group.

SOURCES

Cult Bride

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This week is part one with Liz Cameron, survivor of South Korean religious sect Jesus Morning Star (aka JMS, aka Providence), and author of Cult Bride: How I Was Brainwashed – and How I Broke Free. She explains how her entry into JMS began with being approached by a woman in a bookstore for a harmless survey, and how that survey turned into a bible study group full of women who gained her trust and introduced her to their new and exciting Christian church.

Liz shares how the group began encouraging her to spend more and more time together and get up earlier and earlier, and how they painted her old church, community, and even family as people who weren’t dedicated enough to Jesus–all as they slowly introduced the idea of an incredibly spiritually devoted man they called Pastor Joshua.

Next week: we’ll get into how they began to reveal who Pastor Joshua really was (hint: his name was Jung Myung-seok), his criminal history, and how a god on earth could be sitting in a prison in Korea.

SOURCES

Cult Bride

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This week we’re back with Martina Castro, creator of new Exactly Right podcast Two Faced: John of God, a series about John of God, the famous Brazilian “healer” and “psychic surgeon.” Last week she explained John of God’s so-called healings and doctor spirits that attracted celebrities and visitors from all over the world, and this week Martina walks Lola & Meagan through some of the darker allegations that began to come out.

She shares about how the sexual abuse survivors began to come forward with their stories, the deep political influence John of God had in the town that allowed him to get away with it in plain sight for literally decades, and the mysterious disappearances of people in the town. They discuss the dynamics of devotion and denial, and what it takes to finally break the spell.

SOURCES
Two-Faced: John of God
Dos Caras: Juan de Dios

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This week’s guest is Martina Castro, creator of podcast Two Faced: John of God, Exactly Right’s new podcast series about John of God, the Brazilian self-proclaimed healer and “psychic surgeon.” In part one, Martina explains John of God’s history and mythology, how he became internationally famous for his alleged healings (amplified by celebrities like Oprah), and the carefully primed environment he created called “the Casa.” Everyone dressed in white! Crystals! Waterfalls! And of course, lines of pilgrims watching him channel “doctor spirits” to supposedly heal the town's many visitors.

They discuss how his “free healings” weren’t as free as promised, his so-called “invisible surgeries” that supposedly worked from across the globe, and the in-person healings he did that involved putting objects up uncomfortably far up people’s nasal cavities. And next week, we’ll get into the explosive allegations that came out during the #MeToo movement.

SOURCES
Two-Faced: John of God
Dos Caras: Juan de Dios

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This week, the show is joined by Parvati Shallow, two-time Survivor winner, current cast member on The Traitors, and author of Nice Girls Don’t Win: How I Burned it All Down to Claim My Power. Parvati shares about her childhood growing up in the Kashi Ashram, a high-control commune led by Joyce Green–or, as she made everyone call her, “Ma”. She discusses Joyce’s origin story and how she claimed to have experienced the stigmata, Joyce’s relationship with Ram Dass (who he later said he’d been bamboozled by her), and how she became increasingly coercive and controlling, including taking children from their parents and instructing members to scam their own families for money.

Parvati reflects on how her parents escaped but ultimately came back to the group, what it was like living on the commune and being wild in nature, and how surviving that environment shaped her instincts, resilience, and ability to read people–skills that later helped her win Survivor, and how she’s now unpacking what it means to reclaim her power on her own terms.

SOURCES

Nice Girls Don't Win

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This week’s guest is Jenny Eliscu, journalist, radio host, and producer on Britney vs. Spears, which covered Britney Spears’ infamous conservatorship. She explains how Britney’s struggles in 2008 were used to justify a permanent conservatorship—despite the contradiction of her being deemed too incapacitated to control her own life, yet well enough to tour, record, and generate massive income that her father, whom she barely had a relationship with, was in charge of.

Drawing from decades of reporting, a personal relationship with Britney, and her work on Britney v. Spears, Jenny breaks down the severity of the conservatorship, stripping Britney of the right to use her phone, make medical decisions, or even have a say in who her lawyer was going to be, and where Britney’s fight to end the conservatorship finally landed.

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In part 2 with podcaster & writer Jonathan Hirsch (creator of podcasts like Dear Franklin Jones), Lola & Meagan discuss life in the cult of Franklin Jones, aka Adi Da. They discuss the dramatic meditation rituals in the group, what it felt like to get blessed by the leader, and how different members saw some of the same things that had happened completely differently, depending on whether they still believed in him later or not.

They discuss the lawsuits and allegations against Jones and how the cult panic of the time impacted the way his followers saw them, the importance of being able to admit when you’re wrong, and how ultimately Jonathan left.

SOURCES

Dear Franklin Jones

The Mind Is Burning

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