Today our guest is Amanda Rae, host of YouTube channel by the same name and former member of the Kingston Clan, or the Order, a polygamist group in Utah, not to be confused with the FLDS. Some of you may remember our previous guest Priscilla from the same group - both of these gals were on Escaping Polygamy. Amanda’s going to tell us who the Kingstons are, how many mothers she had, and the principle of “pure Kingston blood” that led to people sometimes intermarrying with relatives - some of whom were underage girls.

She’ll tell us about how her 2 years at public school helped her think critically about the differences between what the cult SAID about outsiders and people of color - versus the reality that they were just normal people, how children as young as 9 are sent to work after school, and why the day she left began with a physical altercation with a grown man in the group.

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Today our guest is Maggie Rowe, former writer on Arrested Development and author of Sin Bravely, a book about her experiences with moral scrupulosity, or sin-focused OCD. We talk a lot about OCD on this show, so here’s a guest who wrote an entire book about growing up with religious obsessions! She’ll tell us about her first obsessions about what was and was not sin, how she started to analyze the Bible with a critical mind to try to understand how to avoid hell, and how her parents tried to help but her church leaders didn’t understand OCD and made it worse.

We’ll talk about the compulsions she would engage in to make sure she was being the right amount of righteous, how she checked herself into a treatment facility for Christians, the incorrect diagnosis of bulimia she received, and how she finally got diagnosed with moral scrupulosity and began getting the treatment she actually needed.

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Former evangelical Christian and pastor's son Caleb Ward continues his story of growing up in evangelical culture in the early 2000s. We discuss some of the touchstones of his youth including Heritage USA (Disneyland for Christians) and Christian rock event Creation Festival, as well as his fear of losing his virginity before marriage, what hell to meant to him (and Lola and Meagan) growing up, how his dad was an example of healthy church leadership, how his parents were ostracized when they left the church, and what solidified his decision to leave evangelical Christianity

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Former pastor's son Caleb Ward joins Lola and Meagan to share his experience about the height of evangelical culture in the early 2000s in a church called Kingdom Life Ministries. Caleb discusses growing up in an environment where everyone was speaking in tongues and having loud prophecies in the middle of church, the pressures that come with being the son of a pastor, how heightened emotional experiences keep people connected to their churches, wild evangelical youth culture involving Christian rock, how good church leadership can actually exist, and why shunning is one of the worst parts of modern Christian religion.

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Today is part 2 with Uriah Wesman, former member of THREE different cults. This week he’ll talk to us more about cult #2, the Hearts Center (which was an offshoot of cult #1 from last week), what it was like being a rebellious emo kid slowly starting to realize inconsistencies in the church, and how his dad discovered cult #3 in Canada, the Ideal Society.

We’ll talk about why he loved Canada so much, how he became obsessed with Alex Jones in his rebellious phase, and what that third cult - a vegan meditation cult - was like, being surrounded by adults who spoke French and didn’t want him there. Plus, how he ended up leaving, and how creating a one man show helped him process his experiences.

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Creator of the one man show 3 Cults Walk Into a Bar, Uriah Wesman, shares about his FIRST cult experience in Church Universal and Triumphant, how they combined Christianity and New Age ideas, the paranoia that was created by beliefs surrounding demons, his mom's mental deterioration that led her to accuse his father of being a demon, and his parents split that led him to his next cult... which we'll discuss next week!

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Today our guests are historian Philip Deslippe and writer Stacie Sutkin, who together have done investigative reporting on 3HO (“happy, healthy, holy organization”), Kundalini yoga, and Yogi Bhajan. They’re going to tell us how they got started writing about 3HO, both interacting with Kundalini yoga in different ways, who Yogi Bhajan was and whether he had any credibility in the Sikh religion (spoiler: he did not), and how he began to get white Americans to believe he was the ultimate spiritual authority, rapidly expanding and profiting off of the money and property of his followers.

They’ll tell us about some of the many ways Yogi Bhajan exerted control over his followers lives, the practice of separating children from their parents in a practice called “distance therapy,” and the boarding schools kids were sent to for years that turned out to be neglectful and abusive, all within full knowledge and approval of Yogi Bhajan. Plus, the wave of survivors that came forward to tell their stories of his and the organization’s abuse, and how they were failed by 3HO’s reparations program.

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Episode 23: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth continue to interview Frank Lyford, former member of Heaven's Gate. In part 2, they discuss the growing number of red flags he began to notice after one of the leaders died, including talk of castration, and what led to his decision to finally, after 18 years, break away. He also tells the girls what it was like when he heard about the mass suicide on the news, how heartbreaking that was, the lessons he's learned as a result, and what his life is like now. Original Airdate: 03/17/2021

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Episode 22: Lola & Meagan interview Frank Lyford, survivor of Heaven's Gate who left after 18 years--just a few years before discovering his friends and loved ones in the group had died by suicide. In part 1, he tells the girls how he began following the leaders Ti and Do, what it was like living a nomadic lifestyle with his "check partner," and what happened when they all settled in one place for "Class." They discuss being separated from the love of his life, how the rules became more strict and controlling, and how much darker things got after Ti got cancer. Stay tuned next week for part 2! Original Airdate: 03/10/2021

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Cult interventionist and founder of People Leave Cults, Ashlen Hilliard, talks about her path to working in cult intervention and recovery, her personal religious experience that led her to this work, how interactions with Mormons in Utah affected her worldview, how she defines what a cult is, why accusing a group of being a cult isn't always helpful, how cult intervention today is different from how it was in the 70s, how it used to involved kidnapping and unethical practices, how her model takes a harm reduction approach, and when cult intervention practices can become culty themselves!

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