Episode Summary:

In this final bonus episode of Jesus and Jet Lag, Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman explore the theme of Apologetics through Paul’s defense before King Agrippa in Acts 26. While Paul is technically on trial, the hosts discuss how he flips the script—using the opportunity not just to defend himself (apologia), but to empathize with his audience and preach the Resurrection. From the “stone in the shoe” approach to the power of community “plausibility structures,” this episode covers how to remove barriers so that the gospel can be heard.

Key Topics Discussed:

* Apologetics Defined: Understanding apologia as a “defense” using reason to attest to the truthfulness of the faith when problems or objections arise.

* Paul’s “True and Reasonable” Faith: How Paul appeals to public, historical facts (”not done in a corner”) rather than private, secret revelations.

* The Power of Testimony: Paul’s model for sharing faith: empathizing with the listener’s struggle (”I was just like you”) and pointing clearly to Jesus, rather than making oneself the hero.

* Continuity of the Mission: How Paul’s speech links back to Isaiah 42 and Acts 1:8, showing that the church’s mission is the continuation of what Jesus began to do and teach.

* Plausibility Structures: The role of the Christian community in surrounding non-Christians with Christians in loving community.

* The “Stone in the Shoe”: Using apologetics not to “win” arguments, but to place a small pebble of truth in someone’s mind that bothers them enough to investigate further.

Resources & People Mentioned:

* Sam Chan: Australian author of “How to Talk about Jesus (Without Being That Guy): Personal Evangelism in a Skeptical World”

* Ken Ham: Creation Museum.

* Glen Scrivener: Australian author of “3 2 1: The Story of God, the World and You”

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary:

In this bonus episode, Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman follow Paul from the “culture clash” of Acts 15 to the nuance of contextualization in Acts 17. Arriving in Athens—a city “living on its past glories”—Paul finds himself alone and distressed by the idols surrounding him. The hosts break down Paul’s masterclass in cross-cultural communication at the Areopagus. They discuss how to move from being perceived as a “seed picker” (babbler) to a clear communicator of the gospel, using real-world examples from ministry in Mexico, Hong Kong, and the UK.

Key Topics Discussed:

* Contextualization vs. Culture Clash: Moving from the negative friction of culture clash (Acts 15) to the positive, proactive work of ensuring your message is understood (Acts 17).

* The “Seed Picker” (Babbler): The insult thrown at Paul by the philosophers—implying he was a scavenger of ideas without true understanding—and how modern missionaries often feel like imposters in new cultures.

* Paul’s Distress (Paroxysm): How the sight of idols caused Paul a visceral, physical reaction, yet motivated him to engage rather than retreat.

* The “Unknown God” Strategy: How Paul utilized a pagan altar to pivot to the true God, addressing the Athenians’ fear of missing a deity to cover their bases.

* Audience Adaptation: Contrasting Paul’s “rural” sermon in Lystra (crops, rain, seasons) with his “urban” sermon in Athens (poets, philosophy, altars) without changing the core message.

* The Stumbling Block: Why the Resurrection was particularly repugnant to the Greek worldview, leading to the abrupt end of the hearing.

Resources & People Mentioned:

* Clinton Arnold: Commentator who explains the fear behind the “Unknown God” altar.

* Martin Luther: Quote on the natural knowledge of God and the uncertainty of those outside the church.

* Epicureans & Stoics: The two major philosophical schools Paul encountered in the marketplace.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary:

In this bonus episode of Jesus and Jet Lag, Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman tackle the theme of “Culture Clash” through the lens of Acts 15. They explore the pivotal Council of Jerusalem, where the early church faced a “sharp dispute” over circumcision and the inclusion of Gentiles. The hosts discuss how these ancient tensions mirror modern missionary challenges—from navigating direct vs. indirect communication styles to the unexpected surprises of cross-cultural worship (like pink communion wafers!).

Key Topics Discussed:

* The “Stasis” of Acts 15: Understanding the “no little dissension” that threatened to divide the early church and why this chapter is the theological heart of the book of Acts.

* The Yoke of the Law: Peter’s defense of grace and the realization that the Gentile believers should not be burdened by a yoke they cannot bear.

* Luke’s Narrative Style: How Luke “walks quietly” through the text, offering a model of unassuming observation for cross-cultural workers.

* Modern Culture Clashes: Real-life examples of friction in the mission field, including:

* Worship Styles: How tradition often gets confused with biblical mandates (e.g., using specific hymnals vs. local expressions).

* Communication: The frustration of “direct” Western communicators encountering “indirect” high-context cultures.

* Organizational Structure: Navigating flat vs. hierarchical leadership structures in different cultures.

* Conflict Resolution: A four-step model derived from Acts 15 for handling disagreement in the church: discernment of God’s activity, interpretation of Scripture, necessary debate, and church-wide consent.

Resources & People Mentioned:

* Ben Witherington: The Acts of the Apostles: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary

* Richard Balge: Commentary on Acts

* Jean Johnson: We Are Not the Hero: A Missionary’s Guide to Sharing Christ, Not a Culture of Dependency.

* Ashish Varma: Paper titled Jews and Gentiles Together in Christ: The Jerusalem Council on Racial Reconciliation.

* Dr. John Brug: Commentary on the Psalms

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary:

In this third episode of the Jesus and Jet Lag bonus series, hosts Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman conclude their look at Paul’s first missionary journey. Picking up in the second half of Acts 14 (verses 21-28), they discuss the “return trip” where Paul and Barnabas revisit the very cities where they faced persecution to strengthen the disciples. The conversation focuses on the essential components of a planted church, the reality of hardships in ministry, and the strategic importance of letting go and entrusting new believers to the Holy Spirit.

Key Topics & Takeaways:

* The “Three Legs” of a Local Church: The hosts analyze Paul’s method to define what constitutes a “planted” church. It requires three components: Evangelism (outreach), Nurture (strengthening the disciples), and Leadership (appointing elders). If you only have one, you might have a program or a Bible study, but not a church 1111.

* The Reality of Hardship: Paul’s warning that “we must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God” was backed by his own physical bruises from Lystra. The hosts discuss how church planting is a spiritual battle that inevitably involves hurts and wounds 2.

* Strategic Regional Bases: How could Paul claim the work was “completed” after only a year or two? Matt explains the strategy of planting churches in key regional hubs (like Iconium or Corinth) to serve as bases from which the gospel could blanket the surrounding areas, rather than trying to reach every individual personally 3.

* Committing Them to the Lord: A crucial step in mission work is the ability to “let go.” Paul didn’t stay to micromanage; he appointed local leaders and entrusted the church to the Lord, trusting that the Holy Spirit would continue the work 4444.

* The Joy of Reporting Back: The episode concludes with Paul and Barnabas returning to Syrian Antioch to report “all that God had done.” The hosts highlight the importance of sharing mission stories to double the joy of the church and validate that it is God’s work, not ours 5.

Resources and People Mentioned:

* Wayne Schultz’s Essay: “Partners in Starting Churches”

* Ott and Wilson: Authors of Global Church Planting, cited for the idea that apostles did not just “go out” but went to specific strategic centers.

Next Episode Teaser:

Join Matt and Mike for the next episode where they will dive into Acts 15 to discuss Culture Clash. They will look at the conflict that arose when Jewish and Gentile cultures collided in the early church and how the Jerusalem Council addressed it.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary:

In this second episode of the Jesus and Jet Lag bonus series, hosts Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman continue their journey through the mission themes of Acts. Focusing on Acts 14:8-20, they explore Paul and Barnabas’s dramatic encounter in Lystra. The conversation covers the “Natural Knowledge of God,” the cultural miscommunications that can happen in mission work, and the comfort that God “works through our mess” when we share the Gospel.

Key Topics & Takeaways:

* Continuity of the Mission: The hosts highlight the striking parallels between Peter’s healing of the lame man in Acts 3 and Paul’s healing in Acts 14. This literary technique by Luke emphasizes that Paul is not a “rogue agent” but is continuing the same work of Christ.

* Lystra Excavated: Mike shares insights from the recent archaeological excavations of Lystra, a diverse city of retired soldiers mixing Latin, Greek, and Lycaonian cultures.

* The “Gods” Misunderstanding: Why did the crowd think Paul was Hermes and Barnabas was Zeus? Matt explains the local myth recorded by Ovid, where the gods destroyed the region for its lack of hospitality, leading the Lystrans to overcompensate to avoid the same fate.

* Communication is Hard: The incident illustrates how easily the Gospel can be misunderstood across language and cultural barriers. However, it serves as a comforting reminder to missionaries that we don’t have to be perfect; God works even through our miscommunications.

* Natural Knowledge of God: The hosts define this as what can be known about God through nature and conscience (his power, wisdom, and holiness). While it is a useful bridge for evangelism, it has limits. It cannot reveal God’s love or the specific message of Jesus’ resurrection.

Historical & Biblical Figures Mentioned:

* Sir William Ramsay: The archaeologist who identified the site of Lystra and confirmed Luke’s historical accuracy.

* Ovid: The Roman poet who recorded the local myth that influenced the crowd’s reaction to Paul and Barnabas.

* Nick Bostrom: Philosopher discussed in relation to the modern “Simulation Theory,” which parallels the ancient natural knowledge of a higher power.

* Martin Luther: Quoted from the Large Catechism regarding the limits of natural knowledge—knowing that God exists, but not knowing his attitude toward us.

Links

* Jesus and Jetlag interview with Dr. Glen Thompson

* “Treasure in Jars of Clay: The Synergy Between the Instrumental and Ministerial Causes in God’s Plan of Salvation” by Jonathan R. Hein

* 321: The Story of God, the World, and You by Glen Scrivener, mentioned for his apologetic approach of bridging natural knowledge quickly to the story of Jesus.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary:

Welcome to a special bonus series of Jesus and Jetlag! Hosts Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman kick off a six-part deep dive into the mission themes found within the book of Acts2. In this first episode, Matt and Mike explore Acts Chapter 1, discussing the “Missio Dei” (the Mission of God), the seamless continuity between the Gospel of Luke and Acts, and what it means for the modern church to be living in “Acts Chapter 29”.

Key Topics & Takeaways:

* The Sequel to Luke: Acts is viewed as “Volume Two” of a set, written to Theophilus. The hosts discuss the theory that Theophilus may have converted from a patron to a “brother” in the faith between the writing of the two books.

* The Roadmap of Acts: Acts 1:8 serves as the outline for the entire book, moving from Jerusalem to Judea and Samaria, and finally to the ends of the earth.

* Witness and Martyr: The root of the word “martyr” comes from the Greek. Being a witness is a promise from Jesus (”You will be my witnesses”), not just a command, though it often comes with hardship.

* The Missio Dei: Defined as the “sending of God,” this concept traces how the Father sent the Son, the Son sent the Spirit, and the Trinity sends the church today.

* Acts 29: While the book of Acts ends at chapter 28, the work of the church continues today as the “unfinished” next chapter of the story.

Historical Figures Mentioned:

* Sir William Ramsey: A skeptic and archaeologist who set out to disprove Luke but concluded that Luke was a historian of the first rank.

* St. Bartholomew: A striking example of the cost of witnessing; tradition holds he was skinned alive for his faith.

* Augustine of Canterbury: Sent by Pope Gregory the Great to England at age 60, demonstrating that mission work involves both speaking the gospel and enduring hardship with quiet confidence.

Next Episode Teaser:

Join Matt and Mike for Bonus Episode 2, where they will cover Acts 14:8-20 and discuss the “natural knowledge of God” in a secular world.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Show Notes

This week we are joined by Professor Stephen Geiger, who teaches New Testament and education at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon, Wisconsin. He also hosts a YouTube channel called His Word 360.

Professor Geiger shares how his ministry, whether in the seminary, his church, or his family, focuses on equipping people to use God's Word to fight their own spiritual battles.

The conversation delves into the genealogies of Jesus found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, highlighting how each was crafted by the Holy Spirit to connect with a specific audience. Matthew's genealogy traces Jesus's line back to Abraham for a Jewish audience, while Luke's traces it back to Adam for a Gentile audience. This serves as a powerful model for missionaries to apply the same gospel message in culturally sensitive ways, without compromising its truth.

The discussion also explores the concept of God's "long game" in salvation history. Professor Geiger uses the Abrahamic covenant as an example of God's 2,000-year plan, a period that culminated at Pentecost when the gospel began to be spread to the entire world. This perspective provides encouragement for missionaries who may not see immediate results, reminding them that their responsibility is the work, while the results belong to God.

Finally, the episode highlights the story of the demon-possessed man whom Jesus commanded to "go home to your family and tell them how much the Lord has done for you". This simple testimony serves as a model for all believers, proving that simplicity is not deficiency when sharing the Gospel.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:

* His Word 360 YouTube Channel: The YouTube channel hosted by Professor Stephen Geiger.

* Forward in Christ: The official publication of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS).

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Show Notes

In this episode, we welcome missionary Bounkeo Lor, who serves as a missionary in the WELS and as the president of the Hmong Fellowship Church in Vietnam. A fourth-generation Christian leader, Boun shares his powerful story of how the distinction between Law and Gospel transformed his understanding of faith and led him to gospel ministry.

Boun explains that he initially resisted becoming a pastor because he saw how hard his father and grandfather worked, serving 24/7. He pursued a medical degree but was moved to ministry after hearing a message on Law and Gospel. Growing up in a somewhat legalistic Christian environment, he was taught that good works and strict adherence to rules were the path to heaven. When he realized that salvation is by grace alone through the blood of Christ, it changed his heart and mindset.

Boun explains that many in the Hmong community and other Asian cultures struggle with a similar legalistic mindset due to their cultural background, which emphasizes respect for elders and doing good to have a good afterlife. He stresses that while the first generation of believers may find it difficult to fully escape this cultural influence, training younger generations can help cultivate a purer faith rooted in the Gospel. He advises young missionaries to understand the culture and "put your feet into their shoes" to effectively lead them.

The conversation also explores Boun's leadership style, which is rooted in honesty and care. He builds trust by following through on his promises and by treating his fellow leaders like family, staying in the same hotels and eating the same food as them. A key part of his approach is the concept of "letting leaders sit inside your heart". This involves observing and understanding the struggles of fellow pastors—like their children being sick or not having enough food—and serving them so they feel encouraged and supported.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Matthew Doebler and Mike Hartman speak with Elise Gross, a "Third Culture kid" from Antigua. Elise shares her personal story and spiritual journey, including her frustration with the perceived lack of active roles for women in ministry and her discovery of strong female figures in the Bible. The conversation explores how her background shaped her view of women in the church and her eventual calling to a ministry role that allows her to use her spiritual gifts in a way that honors God's truth.

Key Takeaways

* Third Culture Kid: Elise discusses her experience growing up as a Third Culture Kid in Antigua and how it shaped her perspective on life and faith.

* Women in Ministry: She shares her journey of grappling with the roles of women in the Bible and discovering figures like Lydia and the daughters of Philip.

* Spiritual Gifts and Service: The conversation touches on the challenge of a spiritual gifts test that revealed her gifts of leadership and administration, and her struggle to find a place for them.

* Academia Christo: Elise describes her work with Academia Christo and how it allows her to use her gifts effectively in a structured ministry environment.

* Leadership vs. Headship: The episode concludes by distinguishing between the concepts of leadership and headship, emphasizing the importance of all believers being equipped for gospel proclamation while honoring God's design.

Links Mentioned

* Academia Christo: The organization Elise Gross works with, which provides resources and training for ministry and church planting. The website can be found here: https://wels.net/serving-others/missions/latin-america/

* Kingdom Workers: A global Christian non-profit that mobilizes believers to meet physical and spiritual needs. The website can be found here: https://kingdomworkers.com/

* Jesus and Jetlag with Ken Cherney: A previous episode mentioned in the conversation. You can find this episode and more at the podcast's main page: https://www.gospelcenteredmentoring.site/s/jesus-and-jetlag

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.

In this episode of Jesus and Jetlag, hosts Mike Hartman and Matthew Doebler interview each other, diving into the ambitious yet humbling call to plant a church body rather than a single congregation. They share their experiences as missionaries in Australia and the UK, reflecting on how their calls encompass entire countries, similar to early missionaries called to whole continents like South America.

Key discussion points include:

* Broadening the Scope of Ministry: Mike and Matt emphasize that their mission is to bring the Gospel to regions, not just individual communities. They discuss the challenges of reaching millions of people in places like Mexico City and China, highlighting the impossibility of one person doing it all.

* The Importance of Multiplication (PARB): The conversation centers on building capacity for Gospel ministry expansion through multiplication. Matthew introduces the PARB framework:

* P - Partners: Making witnesses and disciplers, not just converts and disciples.

* A - Apprentices: Raising up new leaders through an apprenticeship model.

* R - Repeats: Developing simple, repeatable methods for sharing the Gospel, citing Martin Luther's catechism as a historical example of this principle.

* B - Broadens: Constantly thinking broader than immediate communities to reach more people through various means.

* Balancing Depth and Breadth: Mike and Matt explore the tension between deep, thorough training and broad, rapid evangelism. They advocate for a balanced approach that ensures the Gospel message remains clear and unchanged over time while still reaching as many people as possible.

* Leveraging Modern Communication: Mike shares how he uses platforms like YouTube and TikTok to connect with people and generate interest in the Bible in the UK, adapting communication methods to reach a wider audience. Matthew also discusses using English classes to connect with immigrant populations in Australia.

* Encouragement for Missionaries: The episode concludes with powerful encouragements, reminding listeners that ministry will have struggles, it's God's church not ours, and it's okay to make mistakes and learn from them. They differentiate between "lead measures" (controllable actions) and "lag measures" (results that are God's work), advocating for missionaries to "work hard and rest well".

Listen in as Mike and Matt offer practical insights and theological reflections on the joys and challenges of global Gospel ministry.

Relevant Links:

* Mike’s YouTube Channel “Discover Hidden Gems”

* The new church body Mike is helping to form in the U.K.

Common Terms and Links on Jesus and Jetlag

* WELS = Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (wels.net)

* WLS = Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon Wisconsin (wisluthsem.org)

* Collection of Confessional Lutheran Essays

* BWM = WELS Board for World Missions

* CELC = Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference

* CICR = Commission on Inter-Church Relations of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

* Vicar = a pastoral intern in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran system

* Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly (WLQ) - A theological journal, published by Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, that aims to serve pastors and theologians with scholarly articles, book reviews, and reflections on contemporary theological and pastoral concerns.

* Pastoral Studies Institute of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary

* Asia Lutheran Seminary

All commentary, statements, and discussion on this podcast reflect the knowledge, insight, and experience solely of the individuals presenting and featured on the podcast.