Part 1 of 3 with David Artman - Welcome to Jesus the Legend! I am so excited to have a very special guest joining me today - David Artman.

David is a husband, banjo player, and minister who believes God will ultimately redeem everyone by grace. After over 30 years in pastoral ministry, he loves to engage in today’s spiritual conversations.

His journey has led him to embrace Christian universalism—not as a break from Scripture, but as its deepest truth. His book, Grace Saves All – The Necessity of Christian Universalism, argues that ultimate redemption is both possible and necessary within the Christian faith.

Through his podcast, Grace Saves All – Christianity and Universal Salvation, David explores God’s endless mercy in conversations with theologians, pastors, and seekers. With a heart for Jesus, he desires to share a message of hope, healing, and God’s radical love.

Whether playing music or diving into deep discussions, David is passionate about spreading the good news that grace truly does save all.

Welcome to Jesus the Legend… today we’re diving deep into another fun parable -  Matthew 25: 31-46 - “The Sheep and the Goats”. This passage has been a cornerstone of thought on judgment, mercy, and eternal destiny. But what does it really mean? Does it teach eternal conscious torment, or is there something deeper happening? Today, we’ll touch on a few different ways of how this passage has been understood, the significance of the Greek words used, and what this parable reveals about God’s justice and restoration.

Welcome back to Jesus the Legend, where we’re doing our best to explore the radical goodness of God and how He’s better than we could ever imagine. Today, we’re going to chat about a big question: "Who is a child of God?" And, "Why does so much of Evangelical Christianity insist that you're either in or out?"

I want to invite you into a deeper, broader, and more beautiful vision of God’s love and belonging. Because when we take a step back and look at the full sweep of Scripture, we find a much bigger story unfolding. One where God’s fatherhood extends beyond rigid categories, where His love reaches further than we may have been taught to imagine, and where the dividing lines some have drawn may not be as fixed as we think. What if the Gospel isn’t about who's in and who’s out—but rather, about awakening to the reality that we have always belonged?

Hey everyone, and welcome back to Jesus the Legend. I’m so excited for today’s episode because we’re diving into a passage that, for most of my Christian life, I thought was one of the clearest texts for a hell of eternal conscious torment. At least that was how I had always read it and always been taught. Like many others— I thought the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus was rock-solid evidence that once a person dies, their fate is permanently sealed. No second chances and no hope of redemption. You either experience eternal bliss in heaven or eternal agony in hell—no crossing over, no possibility of change. That was the framework I had been given, and so I read this passage assuming that’s exactly what it was saying.

But here’s the thing—I now see that’s not what this parable is about at all. I’ve come to realize that I've been reading something into this text that simply isn’t there. I was bringing a set of assumptions to the passage rather than letting the passage speak for itself. And when I started looking at it with fresh eyes and through the lens of Jesus - I realized this story is about something much different than I had thought.

Today, we’re going to take a look at a topic that has the power to shift our perspective, renew our minds, and even help transform our hearts: gratitude. And I’m not just talking about saying “thank you” when things are going well—I mean living with a deep, daily awareness of God’s goodness, even in the ordinary moments of life.

We live in a world that constantly pulls our attention toward what’s wrong. Turn on the TV, and it’s filled with crisis after crisis. Scroll through social media, and it’s a flood of arguments, complaints, and bad news. Negativity surrounds us, and if we’re not careful, it can shape the way we see everything. But what if we flipped the script? What if we made a conscious decision to train our eyes and hearts to recognize the blessings God places in our lives every single day?

Gratitude isn’t about pretending life is perfect. It doesn’t mean ignoring pain, hardship, or injustice. But it does mean choosing to see the bigger picture—to acknowledge that even in the midst of struggles, God is still present, still faithful, and still working for our good. It’s about learning to trust Him enough to say, “Lord, I see Your hand, even here.”

Today, we’re diving into something that calls us to rethink everything—the overwhelming vastness of God’s love. I believe if we truly understood it—if we could even glimpse how high, how deep, how unshakable it is—we wouldn’t hesitate. We wouldn’t hold back. We’d run straight into His embrace without fear, without doubt, without second-guessing.

When I talk about God’s love, I’m NOT talking about shallow sentimentality or fleeting emotion. This isn’t some feel-good, fairy-tale romance that fades when things get tough. It’s not the kind of love that makes grand promises one minute and walks away the next. The world is full of love that is conditional, love that changes based on feelings, circumstances, or convenience. But God’s love? It’s in an entirely different category.

This is real love I’m talking about. The kind that sacrifices. The kind that endures. The kind that never gives up, never backs down and never stops pursuing. It’s not just words—it’s action. It’s not just a feeling—it’s a commitment.

Why serve God now? Simple—because He’s everything. He’s life itself. He’s the source of eternal purpose, supernatural calm, and a love so deep it makes the Grand Canyon look like a crack in the sidewalk. I don’t want to live a single second feeling apart from Him… I don’t want to waste my life chasing things that don’t matter.

This life with Jesus? It’s so ridiculously good, I can’t imagine ever going back. And the amazing part? He’s offering that same abundant life to you. No subscription fee, no fine print—just grace, love, and a joy that doesn’t make sense.

Philippians 4:7 says, “And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” 

That’s not just a nice verse to put on a coffee mug—that’s real life.

So, let’s walk together in that joy. Let’s live in His presence. And let’s make Jesus so visible to the world that people can’t help but ask, “Okay, what do they have, and where can I get some?”

What if the "fire" of hell is God’s refining love, not some weird retributive eternal punishment with no real, redemptive purpose? 

Malachi 3:2-3 - “For he is like a refiner’s fire and like washers’ soap; he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the descendants of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, until they present offerings to the Lord in righteousness.”

When we think of the "fire" of hell, many of us picture an enraged father intent on pain and destruction. But what if that fire is not about retribution but refinement? Malachi describes God as a refiner’s fire and a launderer’s soap, purifying and cleansing His people until they reflect His image. Fire, in this sense, isn’t about roasting people to make God feel better; it’s about refining and restoring.