In which John Heilemann talks with John Avlon, senior political analyst and anchor at CNN and author of the new book, Lincoln and the Fight for Peace. Heilemann and Avlon discuss the escalation of Russia’s bombardment of Ukraine, the staggering scale and velocity of the Ukrainian refugee crisis and the implications for neighboring countries, and whether Biden is right to predict that Putin’s invasion will leave “Russia weaker and the rest of the world stronger.” They also unpack Abraham Lincoln’s view that to win the Civil War would require also winning the peace through reconciliation and reuniting the nation — a plan foiled by his assassination — and the lessons his approach holds for presidential leadership, especially in times of extreme polarization.

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