In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas Drohan is joined by Rachael Herbert, Director of the National Economic Crime Centre (NECC), to explore how economic crime is playing out closer to home than many people realise.

Rachael explains how money laundering, illicit finance and organised crime are increasingly embedded in everyday places – including the UK high street – and why tackling these threats requires a genuinely system-wide response. Using Operation Machinize as a case study, she unpacks how law enforcement, regulators, government and the private sector are working together to disrupt criminal networks, uncover hidden harms such as modern slavery, and generate intelligence at scale.

The conversation also looks beyond enforcement alone. Rachael reflects on the role of policy and legislation, the importance of trusted public–private partnerships, and how intelligence-led approaches can help organisations and authorities get further upstream of risk. Looking ahead, she shares her perspective on emerging threats – from crypto and synthetic identities to AI – and why local, community-level crime still matters in a rapidly evolving threat landscape.

This is a practical, grounded discussion for anyone working in economic crime, financial crime, regulation, security, or risk – and for anyone interested in how national strategies intersect with local realities.

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Jamie Bartlett, journalist, author and creator of the BBC podcast The Missing Cryptoqueen, for a wide-ranging conversation on emerging technology, influence and how society responds when innovation outpaces institutions.

Jamie reflects on his career tracking the social impact of new technologies, from the dark web and cryptocurrencies to social media, online radicalisation and now artificial intelligence. He explains why it is rarely the technology itself that causes disruption, but what happens when large numbers of people begin using it in ways its creators never expected.

The conversation explores Jamie’s latest work on how to talk to AI, including why large language models are best understood as tools shaped by language, tone and framing. He shares practical reflections on prompting, bias and why AI can reinforce our assumptions unless we actively challenge it to act as a devil’s advocate.

Jamie also discusses the growing influence risks created by AI, from synthetic media and emotionally persuasive scams to large-scale disinformation. Drawing on years of research into propaganda and online movements, he explains why cherry-picked truths can be more powerful than outright lies, and why public trust is becoming harder to maintain.

The episode closes with a candid update on The Missing Cryptoqueen. Jamie shares where the investigation stands today, what the FBI’s ongoing interest does and does not mean, and his current assessment of what likely happened to Ruja Ignatova. He also explains why there will be no further episodes unless there is a definitive breakthrough.

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Tony Sales, Co‑Founder of We Fight FinCrime and a former prolific fraudster, for a candid conversation about the realities of economic crime - from both sides of the line.

Tony shares his journey from a childhood shaped by organised crime and years spent committing fraud, to prison, rehabilitation, and ultimately using his lived experience to help organisations understand how criminals really operate. Drawing on first‑hand insight, he explains why technology alone will never stop fraud - and why human behaviour remains the biggest vulnerability criminals exploit.

The discussion explores how fraud and organised crime have evolved from physical theft to cyber‑enabled scams, the rise of social engineering, and why “getting the basics right” still beats chasing the latest security technology. Tony also examines youth vulnerability, money muling, and the way online environments can quietly pull young people into criminal activity.

Looking ahead, Tony shares his views on emerging threats — including data exploitation, deepfakes, and AI‑enabled scams — and why stolen data never truly loses its value.

This is a raw, thought‑provoking episode on modern fraud, human risk, and what it really takes to prevent economic crime.

In this episode of Joining the Dots, Thomas is joined by Matt Horne, Director of Intelligence and Investigations at Clue and former National Crime Agency Gold Commander, to unpack one of the most significant law enforcement operations in UK history: Operation Venetic.

Matt provides a rare insider account of how UK and international law enforcement disrupted EncroChat - a supposedly impregnable encrypted communications network used by serious organised crime groups. He explains how investigators went from “going dark” to facing an overwhelming flood of anonymised data, and the challenge of turning that information into actionable intelligence while protecting life, preserving covert access, and building cases capable of standing up in court.

The conversation moves beyond the headlines of the Channel 4 documentary Operation Dark Phone: Murder by Text, exploring what EncroChat revealed about the global, businesslike nature of organised crime, the accelerating role of technology, and how digital platforms can rapidly elevate criminal capability.

Matt and Thomas also discuss the wider lessons for intelligence and investigations today – from data overload and evidential integrity, to the responsible use of technology and AI in identifying risk, prioritising threats, and preventing harm.

Thomas is joined by Will Lyne, former Deputy Director of the National Crime Agency’s Cyber Intelligence team, and Matt Horne, Director of Intelligence and Investigations at Clue and Chair of TechUK’s National Security Committee, for a fireside chat on today’s rapidly evolving threat landscape. 

They explore how cybercrime has transformed into a global criminal ecosystem – lowering barriers to entry, enabling ransomware at scale, and blurring the lines between state-backed activity and organised crime. Will and Matt unpack why this “grey zone” of threats demands new strategies, from smarter disruption operations to cross-sector collaboration and data-driven attribution. 

The conversation also looks ahead to the challenges and opportunities of emerging technologies like AI and quantum computing, the double-edged role of digital ecosystems, and the importance of resilience and whole-of-society responses to national security risks. 

It’s a candid discussion on the realities of cybercrime today – and what it will take to disrupt harm in an interconnected world. 

In this powerful episode, Thomas sits down with Anna Rowe – survivor, activist, and founder of Catch the Catfish – to uncover the disturbing reality of romance fraud. Anna shares her deeply personal journey, from being manipulated by a serial fraudster living a double life to becoming one of the UK’s leading voices on deception in online dating.

Together, they explore how emotional manipulation, psychological grooming, and emerging technologies are reshaping the landscape of fraud. Anna reflects on the long-term trauma faced by victims – and the gaps in law enforcement, tech accountability, and public understanding that allow these crimes to thrive.

They also discuss how AI is turbocharging deception, how tech platforms are failing to act on fake profiles, and what policy and prevention strategies are urgently needed to protect the vulnerable. With insights from both victim and advocate perspectives, this is a rare and candid conversation about trust, control, and the human cost of digital deceit.

It’s a sobering look at how love can be weaponised – and how survivors are leading the fight back.

Join Thomas for a remarkable conversation with Will Lyne, former Deputy Director and Head of Cyber Intelligence at the UK’s National Crime Agency, as they unpack Operation Destabilise – a landmark investigation into one of the world’s most prolific money laundering networks.

What began with tracking ransomware payments on the blockchain led Will’s team to a sprawling illicit finance ecosystem connecting UK drug gangs, Russian cybercriminals, South American cartels, and even hostile state actors – all funnelling billions through crypto exchanges under a veil of legitimacy. At its core was “Smart,” a Moscow-based exchange that facilitated global cash-for-crypto swaps, enabling sanctioned elites and criminal networks to bypass traditional financial systems.

Together, they explore how the NCA coordinated dozens of complex operations across the UK and internationally, ultimately disrupting a network operating in every major Western jurisdiction. Will also reflects on why criminal justice alone isn’t enough in today’s threat landscape – and how disruption, intelligence sharing, and collaboration across borders and sectors are becoming vital to staying ahead.

Tune in for a fascinating inside look at the new face of organised crime, where digital innovation meets global scale – and how law enforcement is adapting to confront it.

Join Thomas for a compelling conversation with Alex Rothwell, CEO of the NHS Counter Fraud Authority, as they delve into one of the UK’s most complex and emotive crime landscapes: fraud in the National Health Service. 

From insider threats and procurement scams to multi-million-pound prescription fraud and criminal infiltration of NHS supply chains, Alex shares how his decades in policing and cybercrime now help him protect one of Britain’s most cherished institutions. With the NHS handling over £192 billion a year and employing millions, the scale of the fraud risk is staggering - and so are the strategies to combat it. 

Together, they explore how prevention must outweigh prosecution, why many fraudsters don’t set out to offend, and how data, deterrence, and cultural change can help safeguard healthcare. Alex also reflects on the ethical tightrope of risk appetite in public services, and why the goal isn’t perfection, but resilience. 

Whether you work in healthcare, law enforcement, or fraud prevention, this episode offers a rare, unfiltered look at how fraud really happens inside the NHS - and what it takes to stop it. 

Mark Button – Inside West Africa’s cybercrime ‘kingdoms’

Join Thomas for a revealing conversation with Professor Mark Button, Director of the Centre for Cybercrime and Economic Crime at the University of Portsmouth, as they delve into the hidden world of global fraud and the rise of sophisticated scam networks across West Africa.

Drawing on years of frontline research, Mark unpacks how deep-rooted socio-economic challenges in countries like Nigeria and Ghana have given rise to sprawling cybercrime ecosystems – where young, tech-savvy individuals turn to fraud not out of greed, but as a means of survival and status. From romance scams to business email compromise, Mark reveals how these digital hustlers are trained in “hustle kingdoms” – underground schools where scamming is a craft, complete with rituals and hierarchy.

Together, they explore how these networks are generating tens of billions globally, the psychological toll on victims, and how emerging technologies – including AI – are making scams harder to detect. Mark also highlights what it will take to turn the tide: international cooperation, public education, and addressing the root causes that push young people into cybercrime in the first place.

Tune in for a gripping exploration of how fraud has gone global, why it’s thriving in unexpected places, and what must be done to stop it.

Join Thomas for a compelling conversation with Laura Eshelby, former Cabinet Office counter fraud leader, as she unpacks two decades on the front lines of the UK’s fight against fraud. Starting her career as a graduate trainee and auditor, Laura quickly rose through the ranks to lead complex financial investigations into high-value legal aid fraud.

Together, they explore how fraud has transformed - from paper-based deception to high-tech crime fuelled by AI, deepfakes, and digital identity theft. Laura shares why fraud is no longer just a financial issue, but a systemic challenge that demands cultural change, cross-sector intelligence sharing, and smarter investment in prevention.

They also discuss the barriers to effective fraud response, the promise and peril of emerging technologies, and why breaking down silos across government and industry is essential for staying ahead of increasingly sophisticated criminal networks.

It’s a candid look at the evolving nature of fraud - and what it will take to fight back in a world where truth is harder than ever to verify.