John Heilemann talks with Jonathan Lemire, White House Bureau Chief at Politico, host of Way Too Early on MSNBC, and author of the new book, The Big Lie: Election Chaos, Political Opportunism, and the State of American Politics After 2020. Heilemann and Lemire discuss the January 6 select committee's final hearing of the summer; the scandal over the Secret Service's purge of text messages from the day of the Capitol riot; and the growing impatience among top White House officials with Attorney General Merrick Garland's Justice Department over its apparent lethargy around bringing criminal charges against former President Trump related to the insurrection. Lemire also unpacks the history of Trump's Big Lie as an idea; recalls what it was like to see his face on every TV screen in the world for days after asking the question at the 2018 Helsinki summit that led Trump to declare that he sided with Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence officials regarding Russia's interference in 2016; and discusses various 2024 scenarios, from a Biden v Trump rematch to potential presidential runs by Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom, the ultra-thirsty governors of Florida and California.

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