“If you are not interested in helping your clients, then you should just stick to employment.”

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He is the author of Hourly Billing Is Nuts, the host of the Ditching Hourly podcast, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals. Jonathan has also written a number of books, offers a coaching program, and runs live group courses.

I ran into Jonathan’s writings a few years ago, when I was first learning about the world of online business. I was pursuing a business idea that didn’t end up going anywhere—more on that in the episode—but while doing research, I discovered Jonathan’s ideas about how to run a service-based business and those ideas blew my mind.

Jonathan and I discuss:

• Why marketing isn’t bullshit
• The role that aligned incentives play in building trust with clients
• What Jonathan’s daily workflow is like

And much more. Oh, and Karl Marx makes an appearance. Enjoy the show!

Find Jonathan:

• JonathanStark.com
• An introduction to Jonathan’s ideas: JonathanStark.com/free
• Jonathan’s book, Hourly Billing Is Nuts
• Jonathan’s podcast Ditching Hourly
• Jonathan’s other podcast, The Business of Authority
• Jonathan’s daily mailing list