Joy Over Happiness

In this episode of the Just Schools Podcast, Jon Eckert engages with Alyssa Gallagher to discuss the intricacies of educational leadership and the importance of creating a culture of feedback. Alyssa highlights the optimism that persists among educational leaders despite high stress levels, noting the concept of "gritty optimism" as a key trait for effective leadership. Jon emphasizes the difference between naive and gritty optimism, celebrating the resilience of leaders who remain hopeful through challenges.

Transcription:

Jon Eckert:

Welcome back to the Just Schools Podcast. We're really excited today because in our podcast studio/my office, we have the award-winning amazing science teacher, Krystle Moos. A huge blessing to be able to work with her through our master's program. She's also a local educator that's impacted many, many kids' lives over the last several years. So, Krystle, thank you for being here first of all.

Krystle Moos:

Oh, it's honestly an honor and a joy to share education and our experiences with everybody we can.

Jon Eckert:

Yeah. Oh, and I should mention you're also... My kids got to pick one teacher that they dedicated the book just teaching to, and so one of my daughters picked Ms. Moos as her most just teacher. So teacher that leads to justice and flourishing, not just a teacher, but the most impactful teacher that she had. So she had selected Ms. Moos. And now my other daughter is getting the benefit from Ms. Moos as well. So I think this is the first educator that I've been able to interview that's taught my own children. So you can feel free to share any shortcomings as a parent that I have that you see through my children. But really, what I want to talk to you today about is you've been teaching for a while, and you've won these awards and these accolades for being a great teacher, which are well deserved. But I'm curious, what do you see that's different about kids today than when you first started teaching?

Krystle Moos:

Yeah, I don't think there's much that's different, honestly. They have different distractions. And so I started my first five years at Waco ISD. It was a title one school, and their distractions were very different than when I moved to Midway ISD. It's more of a suburban school. They didn't have as many phones back then. Not everybody had a phone. We weren't assigning digital assignments when I first went to Midway, but they still had other distractions.

I had distractions when I was a student. It was writing notes and finding cute ways to fold them and sneak them along, and we still... I would leave and go to the library to write a paper. And so, I think they're the same. They're still distracted. They still have the same fundamental belonging in the classroom. And when we look at students and we look at what they're facing, and I do think they're facing more, everything's just way more visible in their life and way more connected, which can be really distracting. But then I think about sitting in my course, three math class, and writing notes to my friends and folding them, and I definitely was not engaged.

I think that sense of belonging in any classes where that teacher really made me feel like things were meaningful, they really cared about what I was doing, and what I was learning, and where I was going really were the most impactful classrooms that helped me center. And so, whether it was 17 years ago when I started or today before I get to the content, you have to get to the belonging and why we're doing things, and then the distractions fade away.

Jon Eckert:

Well, I like that you went back to the part that makes us human, which we all have this desire to belong. We want to be seen and known by other people, and that's an innate need. I think that's true. I think the distraction is also true, depending on how engaged we are in the classroom. We're looking for distraction. I think the challenge that I see is I don't think kids are different. I would agree, and I hope that's an encouragement to educators today that the kids aren't different. I do think the ability to distract them has increased significantly because we didn't walk around in our pocket with this device that engineers are paying billions of dollars to turn us as kids into the product. Their attention is that we didn't have that. You had the paper and pencil and the pen and the origami folding, which you could distract yourself, but nobody's being paid to distract you.

Krystle Moos:

Yeah. And I think that is something that we battle in my classroom. I make you grab your phone and show me it on days where I notice that things are going to be a little bit harder and I need them all in. I'll say, "Grab your phone. If you're not reaching in your bag, you're doing something wrong. Get your phone in your bag." When I walked in here today, I took my watch off. And so I think it's training people on when it's appropriate to use devices and when we need to put it away and really focus on what we're learning on each other, so that way the experience is more meaningful.

Jon Eckert:

Well, and I think in your classroom... Again, as a middle school science teacher, I never rose to the level of high school teacher, but I was a middle school science teacher. What I loved about middle school science is it's hands-on. You're doing things. You're experimenting. You're demonstrating. You're seeing how this works, and you did it this way this time, and now you do it this other way, this other time, and what's different, and you're recording it, and you're observing. And so it's designed to capture your attention. It requires your attention. So talk about some of the ways you make science come alive through the ways you make it hands-on in your class.

Krystle Moos:

So I went to school, where I loved all my teachers. I was a very compliant student, and I just did what I was told to do, and I was horrible at lab. I was the student that would finish a lab, have all the numbers, and then go sit and bother the teacher until they told me exactly what step to do to get the result.

When I started teaching, I took all labs and took the instructions away. I would do all the labs first. And I really made it more about exploring and modeling and less about manipulation of equipment. And so, I felt like a lot of labs were cookie-cutter labs. You just followed the instructions, and then it kind of connected to the content, but not at all. For me, it wasn't until I started teaching that I understood all the big connections.

As I rewrite labs, I take away the instructions. I make them target labs, or we'll spend multiple days or minutes, even just minutes, looking at a phenomenon, something as simple as ice melting on a block of plastic versus a block of metal. And then we draw, and we discuss, and we show transfer of energy. And so a lot more of the class is discussing revising models. And then I can drive the conversation of what's happening based on student misconceptions, and it makes it less paper pencil working through practice problems and more relatable, so I can say things like, "Do you remember in class when we did this thing? What did you learn, and how can you apply it to this problem?"

Jon Eckert:

Why do you think more teachers don't do this? Again, science lends itself to this, but a lot of science teachers, it's all procedures. It's all trying to track what you did when you did it. Be very careful in your observations, but it's not this exploration of the bigger concepts. Why do you think teachers don't do that more in whatever discipline they're in?

Krystle Moos:

Yeah, I think we do what we were taught. And so I think for a lot of people, it's just really easy to take what's out there and do it, and it worked. And so why change it? And for me, it didn't work for me. And I hated that I spent hours in college in lab, not understanding why I was doing it. And I wanted my students to have a different experience. And I wanted them to see the science around them coming to life so that when they walk outside and it's snowing, they're thinking about the transfer of energy and what's actually happening with the individual water molecules. And I just know I have to change what happened to me so that my students could see all the things that I'm seeing now.

We were just driving down the road. I drove from Denver to New York. And I looked out the window and saw a huge solar panel, a whole field, really, of solar panels. And I got this incredible idea that when I do a topic, I could actually have the students do those little... You know the car where this has a little solar panel, and when light strikes it, it bobbles its head? Well, I could have them explore with different color light on the end of flashlights to figure out a new relationship, a new lab that might make a little bit more sense to the students than the way I had been doing it by just discussing it.

Jon Eckert:

So what I love about what you've described already is you talked about this human piece that we want to belong. And then I think you also are tapping into this idea of wonder. How do we create a sense of awe and wonder about how things work? Not just, "Oh, that's amazing and that's beautiful," but what makes that work?

And when kids start doing that, I think that's how five-year-olds are. They have this curiosity that somehow school rings out of them. And I do think you're right that sometimes we just replicate what we experience as students. But I also think there's a fear of turning over control to students, where it's a lot easier to bore kids into compliance or make sure they follow these steps. And you can see, "Oh, they're not following the steps. They're not complying," where someone might walk into your classroom and be like, "What is going on here?" There's so much happening, there's so much energy. And that creates a sense of loss of control. And if I did that in my classroom, it would just get out of hand. And they fear that loss of control. Do you think that's true, or am I overstating what some teachers might be feeling?

Krystle Moos:

I think it's a little bit of that, and I think it's having those procedures in place. I go everywhere and in populations of adults, obviously, if you can hear me clap once, and it works every single time. But it's also that awkwardness and that a willingness to try something new. Science is about experimentation. I think education is about experimentation. So today, you said wonder. One of the things that I ask my students to do when they model or when they observe a phenomenon, the first thing I ask them is to write down two things they notice and then two things they wonder. And when we start to do that, we start to get them to think. And today, I even messed up in class. I said, "What do you guys notice?" And instead of giving them time to talk to each other first, I asked that question to the whole class complete in utter silence.

And so in the next class period I was like, "I got to do this better," so I gave them some time to talk together, "and I need three answers. I need three people to respond when you're done." I had eight people that just... I had to let them answer all eight of them. And so it's looking at what works and what doesn't work. It also is getting together with other educators. And so, so much of what I do has been revised by talking to teachers across the nation, not just in chemistry, also in biology, and really driving those conversations about, "What do you do? My students struggle with this. Do you have a lab or an activity or a way to teach it? Tell me how you teach it." And being okay, saying, "My students are struggling. What I'm doing is not working. I need some new ideas so that I can get my students to the point of wonder."

Jon Eckert:

Well, I think isn't that ultimately the goal for each of us is that whatever our subject is to get them to wonder. Because if we really want to tap into intrinsic motivation, we can intrinsically motivate them. That's, by definition, impossible. But if you can create the conditions like you did in the second class period where you set it up where it wasn't about you, it was about what they wanted to share, that creates conditions where they might be intrinsically motivated by the concept that they're studying. Because again, intrinsic motivation isn't "I want to be good at science so that I can get into college and then become a doctor." That's all delayed extrinsic motivation. It's, "Do I really have this awe and wonder about what I'm doing?" And I think that's more likely to happen in a class where they feel like they belong.

I will say too, my daughters have both said they love Ms. Moos because of your kind of nerdy love for so many things. And I think that's great because I think you've done a great job modeling that you're not trying to be cool, as whatever an 18-year-old thinks is cool. It's, "No, I think this is amazing," and that passion comes across to them. It's like, "Wow, I've never known anybody quite like that." And then that makes it okay for them to be excited about things that really get them going.

Have you seen that pay dividends? Do you ever struggle with that? I mean, I was clearly not a cool person by the standards of middle school kids, but I felt like I tried to make it okay to be quirky and be a little different and weird. Have you seen that pay dividends for you?

Krystle Moos:

I think I'm just quirky and weird. I'm okay. Just I am who I am, and I don't want my students to think that they have to be anything different than what they are. And having that belonging means that they get to see my weird. They get to see me on my best days when I'm just so excited, and they get to see me on some days that are a little bit harder. And so I really... I guess I didn't think I was that quirky, but I like it. I tell them, "I run science UIL. We're the nerd herd, and we are going to embrace it and love it." And the thing is that science and math and those are the places that I live and breathe. And man, if you want to come with me, great. If not, just appreciate the fact that I'm really excited about something, and I'm happy to hear about what you're excited about too.

Jon Eckert:

And I think that's part of the belonging you create in your classroom. And I may still remember you were talking to us about the eclipse that's coming.

Krystle Moos:

Path of totality.

Jon Eckert:

We've been talking about the path of totality in our house ever since, and-

Krystle Moos:

I'm not even a space person. Just you know, I've never taken a day of a space science class, but I am so excited. I didn't know when we had the annual eclipse. I don't know if you saw the pictures. But when the annual eclipse shines through the trees, the shadow is actually representative of what's happening in the sky because you're not supposed to look at it directly.

Jon Eckert:

Interesting.

Krystle Moos:

And so I didn't know that. And that stuff, what I didn't know, I didn't know. And what I've learned, I'm just so excited to share. It's path of totality on April 8th. I'm so excited.

Jon Eckert:

Space science, I never took anything in space science. I never taught it. And again, if you haven't taught something, it's hard to really know it. So I'm with you, but it is fascinating. And I just love that the energy you bring to that, but it's not just for the subject because sometimes people say, "Oh, elementary teachers teach the kids, and high school teachers teach the subject." It's like, no, you still teach kids, but you teach them to be passionate about what they're interested in. And you bring a passion to the science that I think is it effervesces in a way that it draws people in.

So one of the things you talked about before we jumped on is the way you give feedback based on this. So again, it's really way easier to give meaningful feedback when you have kids who are deeply engaged. But how do you give feedback in a way that helps kids grow and stretch in ways that are hard and uncomfortable but pays big dividends in the end?

Krystle Moos:

Yeah, I think anytime something's tied to a grade, you have a chance of not seeing what students really know and don't know. When we start deducting points for showing what you don't know, I just feel like it's asking students to copy from someone else because it has a stake in it, even if it's just a practice grade, especially when we get to evaluation grades. I don't want to be surprised on a test if a student didn't know something that I thought that they knew because they completed all their assignments. So I like to frequently stop, give the questions, give two or three questions to the students, and say, "Take it like a test. Take it like a quiz. Go in a corner. Don't get help from anybody. Just get as far as you can." And so we do this once or twice a week.

In AP chemistry, we do it all the time. I'm like, "Okay, you're going to do a CF..." We call it a CFU, a check for understanding. And what I do is they are low-stakes, very low-stakes, or no-stakes grades. And so, I'll get someone that turns it in completely blank, and they tried. They read the question. They'll have circled things, but they don't even know where to get started. I know that when I hand it back the next day, I'm going to pull that kid for a small group and work with them. It takes six weeks to drive out from students. That's okay to not know. It's not okay to not ask for help. And I'm still slowly getting the kids to kind of get rid of that. I would rather have you turn in assignments late. I would rather have you learn it later than now if you're not ready for it now, as long as you're willing to work on it later. And it has just been incredible. Students will get...

The class average on a CFA will be 50%. And I will feel so bad about myself because that means I taught it horribly the first time. But maybe I'll do peer-to-peer tutoring, or maybe I'll pull small group, or maybe I'll go over the CFA together. And it was the way the question was worded. And then on the test, the class average is a 90. So at first, I was like, "Maybe my tests aren't hard enough." But that feedback that constantly having students do it low-stakes, working with them, conferencing with them, and then having them learn from their mistakes has just been so impactful on their overall grades. They don't freak out for tests like they used to.

Jon Eckert:

And I know you don't teach for an AP score. I know that's not what motivates you, but your kids do well on AP exams. And that's the kind of teacher that I like to see because that AP exam is validation that, "Hey, they learned a lot." And it's not about grade inflation because we have this really problematic thing going on in high schools right now where there's a ton of cheating going on. There's a tacit endorsement among some teachers like, "Hey, I don't care how you get the answers, just get the answers and let's move on." So you have graduation rates that are off the charts because kids are moving through, and the National Assessment of Education Progress, ACT, SAT they're all showing these declines in actual learning.

And so what I loved in what you described was this check for understanding is not a throwaway grade. This is a true formative check for me and you to know what you do and don't know. And so then, when you get to the summative assessment, you have these high scores because you and your student know what you didn't know, and then you figure out ways because you are one of the most tireless teachers I've seen for reteaching, figuring out ways to show it a different way, and have an unbelievable amount of energy for that. And that's what gets them over that bar. So it's not about grade inflation. They've truly earned that. And that is, to me, the goal of any teacher.

I don't understand teachers that are okay with a class average of 60% that they then curve and bump up because I really want to know what's the 40% of what you taught that you don't care that your kids don't know. I would hope in most classes, the class average is 90% are higher because I want to know if I'm the teacher that's going to get those kids they learn those things. And coming out of your class, they know that. Now, that's not the way most educators work. Why do you think that is?

Krystle Moos:

It's hard. It is really hard to get the students to take ownership over their own learning because we have just passed them on. And so, if in second grade they struggle with one aspect of math, we pass them on. We're in a very heavy math unit right now, and it involves solving proportions. I can teach them the chemistry. They know all the units. But when it gets to the math, I had to spend a half a class period pulling out small groups of students, that when I said, "Look, it's a proportion. You cross multiply and divide." I had kids honest enough. Let's just be real there. Teenagers being honest enough to say, "I don't know how to do that." They said... An exact quote was, "Teachers have been saying this to me. Cross multiply and divide for the past three years, and I don't know what they mean."

And these are students in honors chemistry. And so I've broken down this wall of it's okay to not know, but you have to ask. And if I don't explain it well the first time, I put a lot of the blame on me. If I didn't explain it well the first time because you didn't get it, ask me again, and we'll come up with something else. Or let's go ask one of your friends, because your friend may have been through the same exact system you were. Something I said clicked for them. And so we just do a lot of peer-to-peer tutoring too.

Jon Eckert:

No, that's great. And I do think sometimes you take too much of the responsibility on yourself as an educator. And I think, as educators, we need to know it's a partnership. And kids have to ask, and they have to do the work. I think, sometimes kids, and I don't think this is true in your class, they'll say, "Well, I don't get it." It's like, "No. You have to articulate what you don't understand because I don't get it is basically saying, 'I'm not even going to try to articulate what I don't know.'" Your example with the proportions is a good example. "Teachers have told me this over and over again, and I don't know what that means." That's a really helpful place because then you can step in and say, "Oh, here's what this is." And you shouldn't have to be teaching that in honors chemistry, but...

Krystle Moos:

I'm going to. If we look at... You're talking about the learning connection, what our students know. I think for me, honors chemistry, the big thing is I can support our students in ACT, SAT, and just general knowledge. And if that's the hole they're missing, I'm going to jump in and fill it because do I want them to learn chemistry? Yes. But how many of them are going to use ideal gas law later on in life? And so if I can teach them proportion, I'm good for the day.

Jon Eckert:

Right, right. No. And I really appreciate that about the way you approach, and that's what a lot of great teachers do, and we need to just continue to highlight that. So we always wrap up with a lightning round. So here's your chance in a word, phrase, or sentence to answer a few. And I have a few common ones I go back to, so I'll ask some of those, and we'll see if I come up with anything random. Feel free to take a pause if you need to, because a lot of times these are the first times you've heard these questions, but what's your favorite book that you've read in this past year? It could be education-related, or it could be anything else. I always want a good book recommendation.

Krystle Moos:

I always go to Limitless Mind by Jo Boaler, Productive Struggle, just that grit, that tenacity, that it's okay to not know. I would recommend it for any math, really. Any science teacher.

Jon Eckert:

Yeah, you recommended that to me early on when a friend, Jo Boaler, does great stuff. Great, great example for educators. Okay. What is the worst piece of advice you've ever received?

Krystle Moos:

Yeah. I've watched a lot of the podcasts, and so I know the repeat ones, but I had someone recommend. And I thought it was a great idea to separate all the loud students that talk from each other. And I very quickly learned that they still talk just across the classroom. And so I'm a little bit more intentional about that. And I provide them opportunities to work with their louder friends, but gosh, that was just horrible. The one here, I separated, and they were screaming across the room.

Jon Eckert:

Well, with my middle schoolers, what I would do in the lab is I would let them choose who they got to sit with for the quarter, and then they get to pick their seats again the next quarter. They said to pick, they couldn't sit with anybody they sat with that quarter, so their group of four would get broken up, and so they had to move those around. But what I found was they so badly wanted to be together that if you put them together and said, "Hey, if this isn't a good choice for you, I'm going to intercede, and we're going to move you," I found that that was my best way to control some of the off-task behavior that they would get. Sometimes, putting them together was the best thing I could do. Not always, but sometimes.

Krystle Moos:

And their conversations are just so much cooler when they're willing to talk to one another.

Jon Eckert:

Yes. And hilarious.

Krystle Moos:

Oh, hilarious.

Jon Eckert:

And hilarious. All right. Best piece of advice you've ever received.

Krystle Moos:

Yeah. Support the support staff. My secretaries, custodians, they are the backbone behind the school. I support my leaders, support everybody, but those custodians and secretaries really can get overlooked. And their impact is very powerful at the school.

Jon Eckert:

Well said. Good thing to remember. Love that. What's the biggest challenge you see for educators in the year ahead?

Krystle Moos:

Anticipating gaps in learning. As a secondary teacher, I used to know what the students weren't, and were going to know, and where they were. And it seems like each year, planning for those misconceptions is getting a little bit more challenging, but I think it's also really fun to look at the first period and go, 'That did not work. Let's scrap it and try again."

Jon Eckert:

Yep. No, well said. What's the thing that makes you most optimistic as you look ahead?

Krystle Moos:

The kids. They're absolutely just doing incredible things. My students are trying and working with me and growing and building. And really, this move to a standards-based learning. Learning to learn and not learning for a grade has changed so much of my students' perspective on learning. They're willing to try things and ask questions in a way that I haven't seen in a while.

Jon Eckert:

Well, I really appreciate you coming on today. And also, just thank you for helping kids become more of who they're created to be. I think sometimes kids don't even have a vision for who the Lord has made them to be. Obviously, God's never surprised by who that kid, what they can do, but I feel teachers like you help speak into kids' lives, share that with them explicitly, but then implicitly, through the way you teach, give feedback, and push them, allows them to do things that they probably didn't imagine they could do. And you have a lot of kids at Midway High School who consider chemistry and the sciences because they feel like they can do it coming out of your class. So it's a huge blessing to my own children but also to the community. And again, it's what great teachers do. So thanks for being on, and thanks for all you do.

Krystle Moos:

Of course. Thank you.

Jon:

Welcome back to Just Schools. Today we have two guests in from Australia. Darren Iselin is one of our only ever repeat people on this podcast, he was so good the first time we brought him back again. And this time he's also brought his daughter Beck. Beck is in her sixth year of teaching year four in Australia. And so today we are going to have a conversation where we make a case against wellbeing. So if you aren't intrigued already, hopefully you will be after we start to hear from some of our friends here.

So let's start with Beck. So Beck, you're in your sixth year. So you've been teaching a little bit before Covid hit and then you've had almost half your time before and after Covid. How would you describe the wellbeing of your students in Australia now? And then we'll dig into why maybe that wellbeing is not the right term for our kids.

Beck:

Yeah, absolutely. Within my classroom context, in any given year post Covid, I generally have around 10 kids diagnosed anxiety. I've seen depression as well in addition to then neurodivergent behaviors, seeing a massive increase.

Jon:

Neuro divergent. I love the terms used. I mean five years ago, we never heard that but all right, so continue with neurodivergent. Sorry to interrupt.

Beck:

So that's an increase in that, in addition to what I was already seeing. I think there's been a lot of children coming in just not at their, we talk about battery packs and they're coming into that school day and their battery pack is just completely drained at the start of the school day. And I think Covid times are really interesting for me. I was still teaching grade one back then and in Australia we only had remote learning for a short time. But for my students, the students who attended school, their wellbeing if you want to call it that I guess, they just seemed happier and settled and then the students who were learning at home seemed the same. And so then coming back from Covid was really hard because the students at school that had had so much more attention had had a different school day, they then struggled with having everyone back together and then the students who were at home who had had Mom and Dad doting on them for the whole day and only having to do some hours.

Jon:

I want to be in that house. I don't think our kids felt like they were doted on our house.

Beck:

I know sitting in Mom and Dad's office chair, we saw Ugg boots with the school uniforms, so then they loved that time. And so what I found really interesting was the coming back to I guess what we had considered normal school. And I feel like we've kind of been struggling to still come back after that, if that makes sense.

Jon:

Yes. Well in the US some schools were out for long periods of time, so there's significant learning loss that's happened and they're not able to figure out ways to minimize that impact and then accelerate forward on top of all the shifts in the way kids have gone through schooling over the last four years.

Darren, we had a conversation with a renowned education scholar and in that conversation we were talking about wellbeing and flourishing and some of the issues that Beck just alluded to because we're seeing that in college students, we're seeing in grad students, we're seeing it in K through 12 students for sure. He mentioned that he did not like the term wellbeing and he didn't like the term flourishing. From what you recall of that conversation, what was his beef with those two terms? To me those have been some of the most ubiquitous terms in schools and who's against wellbeing? And here I'm saying we're making a case against it. What was his problem with those terms?

Darren:

Yeah, I think it comes out of a sense that the way that we are orientating the whole educational process has become highly individualized, highly about the self, the atomized version of who we are, and we've lost sight of, I guess a larger understanding of community and understanding of relationship and understanding of how we do this educative process together as opposed to siloed and isolated. And I think his main concern was around that the notion of wellbeing has become more and more about an introspective subjective version of what that means as an outcome as opposed to something that is around a collective purpose and meaning making that can be shared in a journey together.

Jon:

So when you think about Aristotle's view of the purpose of education, it was to lead to a flourishing society, which is an individual component to that, but that also has a communal purpose, it's not just to flourish. That becomes an issue. So I think I agree that was one of his things that he was pushing back against. And then I felt like he was also pushing against the idea that if kids believe that when they go to school their wellbeing is going to be attended to, and educators see wellbeing as the end, that communicates to them a freedom from struggle. And in fact, in his view, and also I think in our shared view, education is struggle. It's not freedom from struggle, it's freedom to struggle well.

So I know Beck, you were just in US schools, you were visiting and then you have your school context, and again, you just got to drop in on a US school. But do see kids struggling well in schools, do you think they think of wellbeing and flourishing including struggle? Is that something that your students in Australia... Or my perception is in the US that's not something that's expected as a part of wellbeing and that wellbeing is freedom from it. What do you see?

Beck:

I love that because I think some teachers can be so quick to put up the poster, the growth mindset poster of the struggle is healthy. And you might see it in a room in that sense physically, but I like to talk about it almost like this sense of accomplishment. And so at one point a school that I was in had a model where if students experienced struggle, the classroom was then no longer a safe space. And it was like, okay, we need to remove them from the struggle. We don't really know what we'll do with them at that point. We might have calm down strategies, we might do all sorts of things, but then what was happening was that these students never got to experience the sense of accomplishment that came from doing a task that they thought they couldn't do and then actually succeeding in that.

And I've even heard students say to me like, "Oh, I had no idea I was able to do that," or "Oh, that was actually really fun." Or to the point where I had one student discover just a love of reading, had never wanted to touch a book or pick up a book before that. And then just with that I guess a sense of going, you can do it and being careful with the language that I used around her, she's now the student that literally walks around with her head in a book and that's just unlocked a whole new world for her as well. And so I think I'm cautious to never rob my students of that and to embrace that struggle.

Jon:

I love the idea of not robbing your students of it. And you mentioned in a conversation we had earlier about the space in a classroom you can go if you feel like you need a time to take a break and you just need to disengage and then not participate. And obviously there are times when kids are unregulated and they just need a space to calm down and that's real, but it becomes a crutch. And so then you've taken away the chance for a kid to struggle well. So how do you balance that? The kid who needs some time to regulate versus the kid who needs to be stretched, the cognitive endurance needs to be challenged, the push has to be there. How have you figured out how to balance that? I know you've figured out all the answers because in your sixth year of teaching, so how do you do that?

Beck:

I think I couldn't not mention relationship. So much comes down to the trust that is built. But I guess if I could say practically aside from that, I have had spaces like that in my classroom. In my grade one classroom we had the cool down couch.

Jon:

I want to go to the cool down couch.

Beck:

It was great. It was this bright green vinyl. I had kids asleep on that thing. It was great. But one thing I loved was having a space, I've seen tents, I've seen all sorts of things, having a space where the student was still in close proximity to their peers. They were still part of our discussions, but they just perhaps weren't sitting at their desk in a scratchy chair. Maybe it was a little bit quieter where they were, but there was always a sense of I feel that it's best for you to be in this room. We want you here. This is community, this is belonging. And what pathway is built if when they begin to struggle, I send them out. And so yeah, I guess what I saw then was children who maybe don't look like they're listening the way that we might expect. I've heard crisscross applesauce. That's a big thing here.

Jon:

Yes, it's a big thing here. Yes.

Beck:

Yeah. But then still being able to engage in discussion just might not look the way that I expect it to look.

Jon:

No, that's good. So Darren, when you look up the word flourish, so we've picked on wellbeing for a little bit, and again, I want to make it clear we're all for wellbeing. We know you can't do any of the work that we do in schools without wellbeing. But if we're communicating to kids that the definition of wellbeing or flourishing, if you look up in Merriam Webster's, the dictionary, it says flourish means to grow luxuriantly. I don't think anyone would read that and think, oh, that means I need to struggle. And so how do we as leaders of schools and catalysts for other school leaders, how do we help our educators communicate to students what it means to struggle well? Especially as Christians because I think we have a better view of what it means to flourish as human beings knowing that we're made in the image of God. So how do we do that? Have you had any success in Australia doing this? Do you have any hope for us?

Darren:

Look, I think there is hope, and I think it's very much around how we're framing that conversation, Jon. To talk about this notion of flourishing as though it's the removal of all of those mechanisms that will imply risk, that will imply struggle, that will imply a wrestling through actually goes against the very grain of what we're really after with genuine wellbeing and genuine flourishing which we want in our school communities.

I think something that comes back to our training as educators is always around that Vygotskian term around the zone of proximal development. And of course what we can do together can be exponentially better than what we can do on our own. And I think that notion of proximal development, we could apply to very different frames.

We can do that pedagogically, what that pedagogical zone of proximal development looks like. What does relational proximal development look like? Going back to Beck's couch and the safe spaces that we create within our classrooms, what does cultural proximal development look like? Where we're actually together working on solutions that will expand and what we end up with through struggle, through risk, through uncertainty is actually better rounded and better formed students, better formed teachers, better formed communities within our schools.

Jon:

I love that ZPD applied to relational development. So my question then for Beck is you're now in that sweet spot I feel like in the teaching profession. The first year you're just trying to figure it out. The second year you're trying to pick up what you muddled through the first year. And by the third year you hit a, if you've gotten to teach the same grade level subject, you kind of like, okay, I get this. And you can look around and see what colleagues do I pull into this? How can I be more intentional about things other than just being survival mode?

So your zone of proximal development for relational development as a leader in your classroom and beyond, you have more capacity for that now. So how have you seen your capacity for struggle increase? Because now you have the ability to not constantly be thinking about what am I saying? What am I doing? What's the lesson plan? You have this bandwidth, how have you seen yourself grow in that relational ZPD?

Beck:

I think there's definitely been, as with probably comes with any job, just an easing into it. And so there is a sense of it just being a lot of second nature and also just coming back every day and just having eyes that would see beyond the behaviors and having eyes that would see beyond maybe the meltdowns and the language used not just from my students but from within the whole school community. I think that obviously with then success and going, oh, I've done this before. I remember when I did this for this student before, this really worked quite well.

And it never is the same for two students, but there's definitely a confidence that grows. And whilst I am in my sixth year, I don't feel like I'm in my sixth year. I feel like I have so much more to learn. But I think teaching is just like that. I think that the point where you just say, no, I've learned everything there is to learn, that's a dangerous place to be in. And I think there's so much to learn from our students as well. They teach me so much every day. And one of my greatest joys is when I see them begin to celebrate each other's successes and interact with each other in the same way that I guess I'm trying to create that culture.

Darren:

And becomes a very cultural dimension, Jon, where there is that capacity for trust, for engagement, for that sense of that we are in this together. And because we're in it together both within the students but within our classroom, there are these cultural norms that are created that are so powerful. And as someone who, obviously I'm very biased going into my daughter's own classroom, but when I see classrooms that are actually reflecting a culture where that proximal development is taking place culturally, relationally, pedagogically, it really is a transformative space. It's a safe space, but it's not without risk. And so it's not safetyism, as Jonathan Haight would say, it's actually a place where people are entrusted to be able to be who they are, to be real and authentic in that space and allow for that image bearing capacity to find its fullness.

Jon:

Yeah. So when you say that, I go back to the, obviously we need schools to be safe, we need classrooms to be safe, but I think if we tell kids that they're going to wait until they feel safe to share, marginalized kids will never share. And so in fact, they need to be respectful spaces that celebrate the risk taking what you described about seeing kids and celebrating that. And I think what you also described was gritty optimism. It isn't the naive optimism of a beginner. So my first book I wrote was called The Novice Advantage, and I talk about the shift that happens when you go from naive optimism to gritty optimism where you're optimistic based on things you've seen kids grow and do that you didn't think they could do.

And when you can take that from the classroom and make that be a school-wide value, that's when it gets fun. Because when we say struggle, nobody wants to struggle. I don't want to struggle. I know sanctification is a process of being stretched. I want to be stretched without having been stretched. I don't want to go through the process of it. I want the benefit of it on the back end. And so I think what I want to see as a profession or people like you Beck and you Darren, leading other educators in this struggle where we celebrate the growth that we see, when we do more than we thought we can do and that it be fun.

I don't think that the way I'm conceiving of wellbeing, that includes freedom to struggle well as being something that's onerous and compliance driven. I see it as something that, no, I could do this in August. I can do this now in December. Beck, I could do this as a first year teacher. I can do this now in my sixth year and I can point to how I've grown. So if you were to think back over the six years, how are you fundamentally different as a teacher because of some of the hard things that you've gone through in your first six years?

Beck:

I think to throw another buzzword in, I would say resilient.

Darren:

Oh yes.

Jon:

Yes.

Beck:

I think there's been so many micro moments. It's very hard to pinpoint and say this class or this child or this parent or this moment, but it's just the micro moments every day. Teachers make thousands upon thousands of decisions daily. And I think there's almost a sense of empowerment in going, when I speak from my own successes, I then can call that out in someone else. I think every teacher starts their career one of two ways, very bright-eyed. I was like, I've got the rainbow-

Jon:

Idealistic.

Beck:

... rainbow decor, I've got the cool down couch, everything's alliterated. And I think I was very blessed to actually have taught the two cohorts that I taught in first grade again in fourth grade. And that was very significant for me because one, I got to enjoy all of the great things I saw in grade one, but they was so much more independent. But also it was in some ways a second chance to go, Hey, that thing that I really didn't do well when I was fumbling around in grade one, let's do that again and let's do it together.

You know that I was there and I know that I was there, but we're both on this journey together. And that then created stronger community and this sense of identity to the point where I had one of my students create a hashtag on Cecil, which is a platform that students can upload to. And one of the photos he goes, hashtag 4B for life. And I was like, "What did you mean, Luke? What is this?" And he was like, "Oh, it just means we've got each other's backs," and all these things that, I mean, I could have put signs up and said, we're a family and we have this and these are our class rules and whatever. But I would much rather that come from their mouth and just knowing that they felt it was safe, I didn't have to prove that something... I didn't have to prove that I was a safe person. I didn't have to prove that my classroom was a safe space. It just became that. And yeah, looking back, I think it just makes me more excited, I think for the years ahead.

Jon:

Well, they owned the culture. It wasn't you forcing the culture. They owned it and you have the evidence of it. So Darren, you've been in education a little bit longer than Beck.

Darren:

Just one or two more years.

Jon:

How do you see your growth or the growth of educators like Beck? Where are you encouraged by growth that you've seen in yourself or growth just in the profession and what you've seen in Australia or you've been all over the world seeing this, where do you see optimism for this growth?

Darren:

I think the optimism comes Jon, when you see the capacity for that transformative interaction between student and teacher. That sacred moment on day one, which for many of our schools in Australia are going back within one or two weeks for that day one. And we start afresh. We start afresh with the newness of a new year, a new class, new minds, new hearts, new relationships to engage with and to see the transformative impact that that has.

And year after year, we come back to that core element of what it means to actually be about this ancient task of teaching. To be able to engage this space well through struggle, yes, through risk, through uncertainty, through all the things that will be thrown at us in this year. And yet there is something about being a part of a community, a network, a culture that is established within a classroom that truly is a microcosm of what that school should look like right through as you talked about those norms and values that flow, and then indeed what a wider community would look like.

And that notion of flourishing of what shalom might look like in its holistic sense, I think is the responsibility that every teacher has. And I get excited at this time of the year, this beginning phase that every teacher goes in, whether they've been teaching for 30 years or this is their first year of teaching, when they stand before that class for the first day, that first hour when they're establishing those norms, those expectations, we are filled with hope. We are filled with expectation, we are filled that we want to be part of 4B forever-

Jon:

That's right.

Darren:

... because of what we are endeavoring to achieve here with purpose and meaning and something that goes far beyond just a transactional arrangement.

Jon:

I mean, teaching is one of the most human things we do and it's what keeps us coming back to it. And I'm excited about the tools that are out there from AI to ChatGPT to whatever, but anything that takes the human out of it is a problem. And so in just teaching, I define wellbeing as purpose-driven, flourishing, and then feedback is purpose-driven wisdom for growth. There's this huge component. And that only comes from humans. Because AI is consensus, it's scraping whatever the web has said on a certain topic and says, Hey, here's what consensus is. That's not wisdom. And so we gain wisdom from struggle. We're much more able to help and have empathy for people once we've been through something hard. We become much less judgmental. And I think that's grounded in two Corinthians four, seven through 10. And I think as educators we get to live that out all the time.

And so I was sharing with you before we jumped on, I memorized these verses as a kid, but I didn't memorize verse 10, which is the most important one. So if you remember Paul's writing to the Corinthians and they were known for pottery that would be cracked and you could put a light in it and the light would shine through it. So it makes this passage even more powerful. And it comes from our friend Lynn Swaner and Andy Wolfe's book Flourishing Together. And they use this as their paradigm for what this means. And it's super encouraging in this way. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that the all surpassing power is from God, not from us. We're hard-pressed on every side but not crushed, perplexed but not in despair, persecuted but not abandoned, struck down but not destroyed. So those are the ones that are there and those are daunting if you put in educators instead of we. Educators are hard-pressed on every side.

Darren:

Sums up our profession.

Jon:

It's felt like that, right? But that gives us the opportunity to show Christ. And so that's where verse 10 comes in. We always carry around in our bodies the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus may also may be revealed in our bodies. So our creator had to come, suffer, die and we carry that around so that we can then reflect his glory to others because he's at work in us. So as we do this work, that's the hope, that's the joy.

Darren:

Absolutely.

Jon:

Right. And so we're going to wrap up our time with a lightning round. And so I always like to ask, I have five or six kind of go-to questions here. And so I'm curious and feel free to build on anything that we've talked about so far, but this is a word, phrase or sentence. I'm terrible at this. I always would go too long if I were asked this. But if you were to think back on this past year and what we've just talked about, what real wellbeing is, really that's what we're talking about. What is real wellbeing? What's one word that sums up for you how you've approached your own wellbeing in this past year? What would be a word that comes into mind? And in this one, I really do want the first word that pops in your head.

Beck:

Fulfillment for me.

Jon:

Great word, Beck. That was quick. She's younger than we are. Her mind works faster. So Darren, go for it.

Darren:

I'll tell you something quite random, gaming. Now I'm not a gamer, but I love games and Beck shares that passion. We often don't get to play them as much as we should, but we have room full of games that we can pick at any given time. But there is something that is dynamic about gaming. There's something about when you enter into play into that space of actually struggle, of risk, of uncertainty, of joy. And I think in all of that, that to me has been something that has really resonated with me as I've looked at this whole notion of wellbeing is we need to play more, we need to have more fun, Jon. We get to far too serious about too many things.

Jon:

That's right. Darren's a lightning round guy like I am. Beck had literally one word.

Beck:

I'm obedient. Follow the instructions.

Jon:

So I wasn't planning to ask this one, but in the last year, what has been your favorite game that you have played? One of your top five?

Beck:

I have to say Ticket to Ride for me.

Jon:

Oh, I love Ticket to Ride.

Beck:

And all the expansion packs.

Jon:

I've not done the expansion packs. All right. Ticket to Ride. Great.

Darren:

We just love our trivial games. So anything that's got trivia in it. And there are some really awful games of that, there are some really fantastic games that we play with that.

Beck:

Lots of eighties trivia.

Darren:

Lots of eighties and nineties trivia. Just to boost the points for-

Beck:

That's not my sweet spot.

Darren:

... Mom and Dad.

Jon:

Yes. Well my kids love the Harry Potter Trivial Pursuit because I sit and listen to them and I am both proud and cringing that they know Harry Potter that well.

Darren:

My children are like that with Lord of the Rings and Star Wars.

Beck:

Or any sport.

Jon:

Oh well that's okay. Sport is all clear. All good. Okay. So what's the best book you've read in the last year? And it doesn't have to be education related, but it could be.

Beck:

Mine is a Hinds' Feet on High Places by Hannah Hurnard.

Jon:

Okay.

Beck:

Yeah. Fantastic book. It's an allegory, follows the story of a character called Much Afraid, who is on her way to the high places and has to walk in the hinds' feet of the shepherd leading her. Powerful.

Jon:

That sounds powerful. All right, Darren?

Darren:

Mine was a book by Andy Crouch called The Life We're Looking For, really about reclaiming relationships in a technological age. And I just found that such a riveting read. I read it almost in one sitting. It was that engaging.

Jon:

Wow. I love Andy Crouch. That's great. So two great recommendations there. All right. Worst piece of advice you've ever received as an educator? Either one of you.

Beck:

As an educator, that's tricky.

Jon:

Or you can just go, worst piece of advice that could be fun too.

Darren:

Well, the classic that is often rolled out is don't smile till Easter, right. Now it might have a different terminology in the US .

Jon:

It's Thanksgiving. Don't smile till Thanksgiving.

Darren:

From my day one of teaching Jon, I refused to even go to that space. It was just so against everything that I believed as far as the relational heart of teaching.

Jon:

That's great.

Beck:

I would've said the same. Non-educator worst advice, just add caramel syrup to American coffee and it tastes better. That's terrible advice. Nothing will save it.

Jon:

Nothing will save American coffee. Hey, it's a struggle. It's part of the struggle. There you go. It's not contributing to your wellbeing.

Darren:

The joy in the journey.

Jon:

That's good. All right. So I will say about 70% of the people on this give the worst piece of advice that they've ever received that don't smile till the thing. And so we get that every time.

Beck:

Original.

Jon:

It's so sad that-

Darren:

Tragic.

Jon:

...that is so pervasive. Best piece of advice you've ever received? And this could be in general or as an educator.

Darren:

I will go with education again, Jon, that at the heart of education is the education of the heart. And so just keep it real and keep it relational. And it's all about relationships.

Beck:

As an educator, best advice I've received, I don't know if you could call it advice, but the quote "The kids who need love the most are the hardest to love." That's my favorite.

Jon:

That's good. Last question, last word for the listeners. What do you hope in the years ahead as an educator will best define what it means to flourish as a student? So word, phrase, or sentence. What would flourishing really look like for a kid moving forward?

Beck:

I would say a word, connection. And I would love to see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs starting at the bottom not always at the top in our classrooms.

Jon:

Love it.

Darren:

Yeah. I think for me the word that constantly comes to mind is joyful hope, is a joyful hope in what we do, that what we've been entrusted with every year within our classrooms. That there's a joyful hope that awaits.

Jon:

Well, thank you for being with us today. It's been a huge blessing for me.

I really hope that you will join me for this episode because I had a truly inspiring conversation with John Walker, the superintendent of Central Christian School in Kansas. John shares his nontraditional journey into education, emphasizing the importance of building a supportive community of leaders around him, and we delve into the challenges he faces as a school leader and how he leads with vulnerability, inviting others into messy conversations to solve problems and make decisions.

John's commitment to creating an affectionate school culture, where teachers, students, and parents flourish together, really stands out, and we also explore the idea that leadership doesn't have to be lonely; instead, it's about fostering collaboration and support!

Join us for insights into leadership, vulnerability, and the joy found in the lives of students. It's a conversation filled with wisdom and a refreshing perspective on the future of education!

To learn more, order Jon's book, Just Teaching: Feedback, Engagement, and Well-Being for Each Student.

The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work.

Be encouraged.

Timestamps:

[0:37] - My guest today is John Walker, a humble education leader who exemplifies communal leadership.

[2:05] - John traces his path from public school to Bible college, discussing his higher education roles and being superintendent.

[5:30] - John humbly acknowledges his imperfections, sharing a recent parenting struggle and emphasizing vulnerability.

[8:12] - I humorously suggest that John became a school head to get parenting advice, highlighting vulnerability and humility.

[9:38] - John highlights the importance of team collaboration and seeking advice.

[11:56] - John emphasizes the value of seeking input from a supportive community when facing challenges.

[13:37] - We both agree that leadership does not need to be lonely.

[14:58] - John shares that he feels immense joy in witnessing the positive impact on students' lives at his school.

[17:46] - Learn what John's favorite book of 2023 is: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer.

[18:14] - Hear both the worst advice and best advice that John has ever heard about being an educator.

[20:18] - John characterizes his optimistic view of education in 2024 as being affectionate.

Connect on Social Media:

Baylor MA in School Leadership

Jon Eckert: @eckertjon

Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl

Books Mentioned:

John Mark Comer - The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: How to Stay Emotionally Healthy and Spiritually Alive in the Chaos of the Modern World

I am so thrilled to introduce our latest episode featuring the incredible Lauren Houser, who brings seventeen years of experience as an assistant principal. Lauren shares her journey from unexpected twists, like taking a year off after graduation, to finding her true calling in education.

We also dive deep into topics like the power of building relationships through looping (did you know Finland does it for up to six years?), the importance of failing forward in education, and how to lead well even when values clash. Plus, we even explore Lauren's unique perspective on discipline as the "playground of life" and why creating a culture of trust is at the heart of overcoming challenges.

This is a candid conversation filled with incredible insights that will resonate with educators at all levels. You definitely won't want to miss this one!

To learn more, order Jon's book, Just Teaching: Feedback, Engagement, and Well-Being for Each Student.

The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work.

Be encouraged.

Timestamps:

[0:37] - Hear an introduction providing some information about Lauren’s credentials.

[2:01] - Lauren's journey into education took an unexpected turn from traditional teaching to looping through grades.

[3:47] - Lauren shares how her educational journey continued as she transitioned from a teacher to an instructional coach.

[5:30] - I discuss the positive impact of looping in education, emphasizing the importance of deep student-teacher relationships.

[7:30] - Lauren highlights the significance of elementary teachers as experts in understanding and connecting with students.

[9:54] - Focusing on common values when working with diverse leadership styles is crucial.

[11:45] - Lauren emphasizes influential leadership, prioritizing relationships, and applies Leander's pillars—collaboration, ownership, improvement cycles, and resilience.

[13:20] - I underscore the importance of influence in leadership and explore the concept of strategic failure.

[15:04] - Lauren highlights the necessity of strategic failure in education, emphasizing the importance of reflection and growth.

[18:05] - How does Lauren lean into her core mission and calling in her role as an educational leader?

[20:23] - The role of sincerity in restoring community in education is discussed.

[22:00] - What is some good advice and bad advice that Lauren has received?

[25:08] - Lauren discusses the profound challenge of overcoming distrust and fear in education communities.

[26:12] - What makes Lauren most optimistic about the year ahead?

Connect on Social Media:

Baylor MA in School Leadership

Jon Eckert: @eckertjon

Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl

Books Mentioned:

Clay Scroggins - How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge: Leveraging Influence When You Lack Authority

Amy C. Edmondson - Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well

Join me for this episode of Just Schools as I have a fascinating conversation with Shaun Brooker, a former rugby player turned school leader from New Zealand!

Listen in as we explore Shaun's journey into education, driven by his experiences at youth camps and his love for motivating students to push their limits. Shaun sheds light on his role in developing user-friendly systems for teachers, emphasizing the importance of meaningful engagement over mere busy work.

The discussion also touches on the strategic use of technology in education, with Shaun sharing insights into a game plan approach to identify and address students' individual needs. Furthermore, Shaun provides a glimpse into the unique aspects of the New Zealand education system, including the freedom to design classroom spaces and the integration of Christian truths into the curriculum.

I hope that you will join us as we dive into the nuances of education, engagement, and the distinctive features of New Zealand's educational landscape.

To learn more, order Jon's book, Just Teaching: Feedback, Engagement, and Well-Being for Each Student.

The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work.

Be encouraged.

Timestamps:

[0:37] - Today’s guest is Shaun Brooker!

[1:35] - Shaun's journey into education, inspired by youth camps, reflects a passion for motivating and teaching children.

[2:56] - Shaun, shaped by rugby in New Zealand, took his passion overseas, playing and coaching various sports.

[4:54] - Shaun advocates for user-friendly systems, prioritizing meaningful student engagement to ensure every classroom moment is purposeful.

[6:48] - Shaun's game plan prioritizes individual recognition, zone of proximal development, and relational strategies for engagement.

[8:47] - Shaun emphasizes the effectiveness of the game plan in addressing student engagement, leading to positive outcomes.

[10:33] - Shaun draws parallels between church engagement and artificial intelligence, emphasizing the importance of emotional connection and human elements in learning.

[13:23] - Shaun emphasizes the shift from knowledge to wisdom, highlighting the importance of a meaningful relationship with Christ and responsible technology use.

[14:57] - Shaun aligns the SAMR model with a matrix for purposeful education technology integration.

[17:33] - Shaun raises the bar for students by creating an engaging album, emphasizing meaningful technology use.

[18:45] - I underscore education in wisdom tied to God, and I emphasize tech as tools for growth.

[21:02] - Shaun values the New Zealand curriculum's flexibility, enabling teachers to tailor lessons based on competencies.

[23:15] - Learn about New Zealand's education system, which is funded by taxpayers and fosters engaging, contextual learning.

[27:02] - Shaun identifies Erin Meyer's The Culture Map as the best book he read in 2023.

[27:49] - Hear the best advice and the worst advice that Shaun has heard as an educator.

[29:18] - What encourages and gives hope to Shaun about education in the future?

Connect on Social Media:

Baylor MA in School Leadership

Baylor Doctorate in Education

Jon Eckert: @eckertjon

Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl

Books Mentioned:

Erin Meyer - The Culture Map

I'm so thrilled to share today's episode with you. I am joined today by Matt and Eric as we dive deep into well-being, belonging, and the fascinating world of education. Matt and Eric are wonderful educators in Canada and are doing remarkable work in fostering a sense of belonging for international students and enhancing the well-being of every student in their respective schools.

In this engaging conversation, we explore their unique approaches to creating a vibrant school culture, from multicultural clubs to innovative events like multicultural weeks. Matt, the Vice Principal and International Student Coordinator at Woodland Christian High School, shares his insights into redefining the narrative around international students, emphasizing the importance of fostering genuine relationships and a sense of belonging. Meanwhile, Eric, Athletic Director and teacher at King's Christian Collegiate, sheds light on the collective efforts to prioritize student well-being, especially in the post-pandemic landscape.

As we delve into the challenges and triumphs of education, we touch upon the impactful concept of restorative justice and its varied implementations. Discover how these educators are navigating the evolving educational landscape, tackling issues such as technology barriers, and instilling empathy as a core value in students. Tune in, and join us for this enlightening educational discussion!

To learn more, order Jon's book, Just Teaching: Feedback, Engagement, and Well-Being for Each Student.

The Just Schools Podcast is brought to you by the Baylor Center for School Leadership. Each week, we'll talk to catalytic educators who are doing amazing work.

Be encouraged.

Timestamps:

[0:37] - Today’s guests are Matt Hazenberg and Eric Bulthuis!

[1:43] - Matt is the vice principal international student coordinator at Woodland Christian High School in Kitchener, Ontario, inspired by childhood teachers and a passion for learning.

[2:21] - Matt has been teaching since September 2015.

[2:26] - Eric, at King's Christian Collegiate in Oakville, Ontario, embraces education inspired by his parents, both of whom were teachers.

[3:58] - Matt explains how he transformed the international student program at his school, prioritizing belonging through a multicultural approach.

[6:56] - Eric emphasizes the importance of student well-being and implementing diverse programs.

[9:20] - Addressing student discipline, Matt emphasizes a restorative justice approach to mend relationships and build community.

[11:31] - Eric notes the universal care and love in handling discipline, emphasizing shared values across diverse schools.

[12:34] - Matt discusses alternatives to student removal, highlighting a Mennonite-inspired approach.

[15:17] - Eric envisions a collective effort for student well-being, emphasizing unity and collaboration in achieving goals.

[16:18] - Matt emphasizes the post-pandemic challenge of re-establishing school culture, aiming for renewed student interactions and engagement.

[19:16] - Matt stresses the value of collective effort, acknowledging individual limitations and the need for collaboration.

[19:37] - Eric received advice to avoid smiling until November for classroom management but disagrees, choosing to prioritize building connections.

[20:33] - The best piece of advice that Matt received was about the importance of learning to say no and set boundaries for well-being.

[21:00] - Eric advocates for the transformative power of loving first, erasing labels like "bad kids" for a better teaching experience.

[21:44] - Addressing the challenge of technology barriers, Matt aims to foster present community engagement beyond just the classroom.

[22:17] - Eric emphasizes the crucial task of teaching and fostering empathy for a more compassionate future.

[22:37] - I emphasize leading with love and fostering empathy, viewing AI as an exciting yet challenging educational prospect.

[23:37] - Matt envisions Christian school educators expanding their network, fostering collaboration and learning across North America and beyond.

Connect on Social Media:

Baylor MA in School Leadership

Baylor Doctorate in Education

Jon Eckert: @eckertjon

Center for School Leadership at Baylor University: @baylorcsl

Resources Mentioned:

Rita Pierson - “Every kid needs a champion” TED Talk

Bob Goff - Love Does: Discover a Secretly Incredible Life in an Ordinary World