Gyles talks the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, and as this is a Rosebud conversation, we begin by hearing about Justin's fascinating family story. We hear about Justin's father - the charming, but alcoholic, Gavin Welby. About his mother, Jane Portal, who had worked as Winston Churchill's secretary and also struggled with alcohol addiction. About how, in the midst of chaos at home, Justin found solace in books, school, his grandmother, and eventually, in God. We hear about Justin's spiritual journey, about reading the Bible from cover-to-cover by the light of an oil lamp, about 'coming to faith' and about meeting his wife, Caroline, through the church. We hear about the birth of their first daughter, Johanna, and her tragic death in a road accident at only seven months old. We hear about Justin's career - first in the oil industry, and later in the Church of England. We hear about becoming the one hundred and fifth Archbishop of Canterbury, and some of the high points of that job. We hear about the shocking discovery Justin made about his family history in 2016.

Gyles also talks, in some detail, to Justin about his resignation in 2024 - about his regrets, his learnings, and how that chastening experience has affected him. This is a long, thought-provoking and we hope, interesting conversation about failure, humanity and the possibility of redemption.

Our thanks to Justin Welby.

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