Debut novelist Kasim Ali goes head to head with author and teacher Okechukwu Nzelu in a war of the words...

They discuss their publishing journeys, how they approach rejection, "messy" romcoms, queerness and the joy in "simple writing". They also recommend us some books they have read and loved recently - and give us some tips for getting books back from friends you've loaned them to!

In the Book Off, they pit "The Incarnations" by Susan Barker against John Paul Brammer's "Hola Papi" - but which one will win?

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