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Nourishment: How Animals, People & Landscapes Learn — with Dr Fred Provenza

In this powerful conversation, Dr Fred Provenza — author of Nourishment — explores how animals and humans learn from experience, how environments shape behaviour through epigenetics, and why real change in agriculture begins "between the ears." From in-utero learning to regenerative decision-making, this episode challenges us to rethink how we manage land, livestock, and ourselves.

🌱 What This Episode Covers

In this wide-ranging and deeply thoughtful discussion, Fred Provenza joins the KLR team to explore how biology, behaviour, belief systems, and learning are inseparable — in animals and in people.

You'll hear about:

• How animals develop the ability to digest and utilise poor-quality feed through experience and early-life exposure

• The role of epigenetics — how genes are expressed in response to social and environmental conditions

• Research showing animals exposed to certain plants in utero later choose those plants and adapt physiologically to them

• Why animals — and people — resist change, even when current systems are no longer serving them

• What morning sickness may tell us about evolutionary protection of the developing fetus

• Why transformation usually comes through trial, discomfort, and disruption

• How regenerative change must start with mindset, not just management practices

• The influence of Bud Williams and the power of learning to truly think for yourself

🧠 Key Takeaways for Livestock Producers

• Animals are not passive — they learn what to eat, where to go, and how to survive through experience.

• Early nutrition and exposure shape lifetime performance, preference, and resilience.

• Behaviour and biology are shaped by environment — management matters more than genetics alone.

• Change is hard because beliefs are hard to shift — both in livestock and in people.

• Regeneration isn't just about what you do with the land… it's about how you see the land.

As one Mexican regenerative farmer famously put it:

"If you want to change the land, the change has to happen between your ears first."

📖 About the Guest — Dr Fred Provenza

Dr Fred Provenza is Professor Emeritus at Utah State University and author of the book Nourishment: What Animals Can Teach Us About Rediscovering Our Nutritional Wisdom. His work has transformed how scientists, producers, and land managers understand:

• Animal behaviour and diet selection

• Learning in livestock

• Plant–animal relationships

• Ecological and human health connections

Fred's research and philosophy have influenced regenerative agriculture thinkers and stockpeople around the world, including close collaboration and friendship with the late Bud Williams.

💬 Memorable Quotes from the Episode

• "Genes are incredibly stable — what changes is how they are expressed in response to environment."

• "Animals become intimately linked to the landscapes they are required to survive in."

• "It's hard to change core beliefs — in animals and in people."

• "The trials are what transform consciousness."

• "I don't want you to think like I think… I just want you to think." — Bud Williams

🔁 Why This Matters for KLR Producers

This conversation reinforces a core KLR principle:

Management decisions — not markets or genetics — drive outcomes.

Understanding how animals learn, adapt, and respond to environments strengthens our ability to:

• Match livestock to landscapes

• Build resilient grazing systems

• Improve animal welfare and performance

• Make more intentional, less reactive decisions

It also reminds us that profitable, regenerative systems start with how we think, not just what we do.

Building Resilient Soils: Cover Crops, Biology & Profitable Pastures with Kevin Elmy Episode Overview

In this conversation, Grahame is joined by Canadian cover cropping specialist Kevin Elmy, author of Not Just Dirt and long-time regenerative agronomist. Kevin shares how he turned "dirt back into soil" on his Saskatchewan farm, and how the same principles apply in Western Canada, Western Australia and across Australian grazing country.

From multi-species cover crops and relay cropping, to weeds as indicator plants and the power of livestock, Kevin unpacks a practical, biology-first approach to reducing risk, improving water use, and lifting profitability in both cropping and livestock systems.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• What cover cropping really is (without overcomplicating the definition) – simply growing plants to protect and improve soil, whether you're a grain grower, grazier, horticulture producer, or gardener.

• How Kevin realised he'd "bought dirt, not soil" in 1999 – and the steps he took over 22 years to rebuild organic matter, structure and biology.

• The five soil health principles Kevin lives by and how they link to longer growing seasons, living roots and reduced synthetic inputs.

• Why water infiltration and "functional water" matter more than rainfall totals – and how diverse cover crops help capture and hold every millimetre.

• How relay cover cropping works: seeding a low-growing cover into a cash crop, harvesting the cash crop, then letting the understory explode into growth for biology and feed.

• Why weeds are indicator plants, not enemies – and how high nitrate levels, low calcium and compaction are often the real problem.

• The importance of the fungal:bacterial ratio in your soil, and what different plant communities (weeds, natives, shrubs) are telling you about it.

• How combining grasses + legumes + forbs (and even flowers) creates synergy for nutrient cycling, animal performance and nutrient-dense grain and fodder.

• Practical ideas for using cover crops in the "shoulder seasons" so you can rest perennials, reduce tractor hours, and keep livestock grazing instead of feeding bales.

• Why broadcasting seed and using animal impact can be a simple, low-steel way to establish diverse covers – especially when timed with rain.

Key Concepts & Takeaways

• Principles before products: Start with biology, living roots and diversity; inputs and machinery are secondary.

• Diversity trumps density: Five functional plant groups – grasses, legumes, brassicas, non-brassica forbs, and other broadleaves – with mixes of summer/winter active and annual/biennial/perennial species.

• Weeds as messages: Species like wild oats, Capeweed and thistles are signalling high nitrates, compaction or mineral imbalances – not "bad luck".

• Livestock as critical partners: Properly integrated livestock elevate soil health to the "next level" through grazing, trampling and nutrient cycling.

• Think like a plant and a microbe: The aim is to feed soil biology so it can feed plants, animals and ultimately human health.

Guest Bio – Kevin Elmy

Kevin Elmy is a Canadian agronomist, cover cropping specialist and author based in eastern Saskatchewan. After buying highly degraded "dirt" in 1999, Kevin spent over two decades rebuilding soil function using cover crops, diverse rotations and well-managed livestock. He has consulted widely across Western Canada and Australia, including work with Haggerty's in WA and workshops at Dunedoo (NSW). Kevin's work focuses on practical, profitable regenerative systems that reduce reliance on synthetic inputs while improving resilience, productivity and animal performance.

Quotes Worth Remembering

• "If we're not making money, we're not going to be doing good things for the soil for very long." – Kevin

• "Weeds are just really successful plants trying to fix the soil." – Kevin

• "Diversity trumps density – every time." – Kevin

• "We focus on the livestock above the ground, but if we ignore the livestock under the ground, we're missing half the picture." – Grahame

Resources & Mentions

• Kevin's book: Not Just Dirt

• Sir Albert Howard – early soil health pioneer

• Dr Christine Jones – soil ecologist, regenerative ag educator

• Nicole Masters – agroecologist, author & educator

• Dr David Montgomery – Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations

Who This Episode Is For

• Mixed farmers wanting to integrate cropping and livestock more profitably

• Graziers looking to reduce drought risk and improve pasture resilience

• Grain growers wanting to lift soil health without going broke on inputs

• Anyone curious about practical regenerative agriculture that works in low-rainfall, challenging environments

Co-trainer Mel Kiel (Yeoval, NSW) and co-founder Grahame Rees unpack what KLR Marketing is really all about — beyond the myths, beyond "systems," and well beyond simply trading cattle. Mel shares how she went from turning up at a KLR school with a two-year-old on her hip to running a 100% trading operation and now training producers across Australia and the US. Grahame traces the origins of KLR back to working with Bud Williams, the partnership with Rod Knight and Jim Lindsay, and how the KLR principles have evolved over more than 20 years. Together, they walk through the five KLR principles, why grass is the real driver of profit, how to think about cost of carry that incorporates overheads, and how KLR helps you create cash flow and profit in any market — rising, falling, or sideways. If you've ever wondered, "What actually IS KLR?" or "Is it only for traders?" this conversation gives you a clear, practical overview. What We Cover

• Mel's story: from a small farm and young family to Full-time Trading and KLR trainer
• Grahame's background at Ivanhoe, stockmanship with Bud Williams, and the birth of KLR
• How Knight, Lindsay & Rees (KLR) came together — and the legacy of the Late Rod Knight
• Where KLR is being used: Australia, NZ, US, Canada, South Africa, and beyond
• Why KLR is not just about trading – and why breeders often have more opportunity
• The five KLR principles and how they guide day-to-day decisions
• Grass as the foundation: matching stocking rate to carrying capacity
• The concept of cost of carry vs "cost of gain" and why overheads matter
• Using the Business Analyzer, spreadsheets, and the cloud app to make decisions
• Real examples: When to Sell, When not to Replace, and when the numbers say "walk away"
• The role of agents, bankers and advisors in your KLR "team"
• The structure of the KLR Marketing School and the ongoing Mastermind & 6-week sprint
• Why KLR doesn't try to predict the market — and focuses on margin, not prices.

Key Takeaways

• KLR is a decision-making framework, not a rigid system. It gives you tools and principles to make your own choices around grass, money, and livestock.
• Breeders AND Traders can use KLR. KLR applies whether you're trading, backgrounding, or running a breeding enterprise — you simply use the tools in different places in the business.
• Grass comes first. You're a grass producer before you're a livestock producer. Matching stocking rate to carrying capacity is central to both profit and peace of mind.
• Cash flow is as important as profit. KLR helps you design trades and strategies that keep money moving through the business, not just paper profits.
• Cost of Carry includes overheads. It's not just freight and animal health — overheads, interest, and time all need to be accounted for in your trades.
• You can profit in any market direction. Rising, falling, or sideways, there are always price relationships and margins to work with — if you have a way to measure them.
• Know and understand yourself. Your risk profile, habits, skills with numbers, grass management and people all affect how you use the KLR tools.
• You're not alone. The KLR Mastermind, agents who understand the approach, and other graduates create a support network to help implement, not just "learn and leave."

The Five KLR Principles

1. Balance the trading between the inventories of grass, money and livestock
2. Every day we sell and replace (can be sell and replace with grass or upcoming progeny)
3. Know the price relationship between what you have to sell and what you can replace it with today
4. Sell the overpriced, buy/keep the underpriced (for you, after cost of carry)
5. Know and understand yourself

About the Presenters Mel Kiel – Co-Trainer, KLR Marketing School Mel lives at Yeoval, NSW, where she and her husband Dave run a 100% trading operation complemented by a mobile diesel mechanic business. She first attended a KLR school over 20 years ago and has been using the principles ever since. Today, Mel co-trains KLR schools in Australia and the US, supports producers through the KLR Mastermind, and is known for her practical focus on grass, cash flow, and unemotional decision-making. Grahame Rees – Co-Founder & Trainer, KLR Marketing School Grahame spent his early life at Ivanhoe, NSW, managing sheep and wool operation and trading cattle, He has a long background in grazing management and low-stress stock handling. After working closely with Bud Williams and partnering with Jim Lindsay and the late Rod Knight, he helped develop what is now the KLR Marketing School. Grahame continues to teach, manage livestock on a smaller scale, travel to ranches worldwide, and refine the KLR tools and principles. Standout Quotes

• "We're not teaching a system. We're teaching principles you can apply anywhere."
• "We're really grass producers. The way we sell that grass through animals determines profit."
• "The formula is simple: sell – buy – cost of carry = profit or loss. The human mind is what complicates it."
• "It's not about whether the market is high or low. It's about the relationship between what you're selling and what you're replacing it with today."
• "Knowing and understanding yourself is often the biggest block when making decisions."

Trading With Confidence: How Numbers, Grass & Teamwork Drive Better Decisions ~ Rhys and Catherine Daniels

In this episode, we dive into a practical and powerful conversation about livestock trading, using tools like AuctionsPlus and the KLR Marketing calculator, and how clear thinking—not emotion—creates consistent profit. Our guests share how they transformed their business by focusing on cashflow, grass budgeting, timing, and teamwork.

🔥 Key Topics Covered

• Using AuctionsPlus strategically – how real-time updates during a sale with the KLR Calculator App, help remove emotion and guide buying decisions.

• The power of the KLR calculator – working out profit per head, per trade, and per annum before committing.

• Setting a clear "sell" first – why knowing your sale price makes buying decisions far simpler.

• Removing emotion from trading – no more falling in love with "nice-looking" cattle; decisions are purely numbers-based.

• Cashflow transformation – how their trading success exceeded expectations and delivered stronger-than-anticipated cashflow.

• Why market risk is overrated – and why feed risk is now the biggest factor to manage.

• Grass budgeting as the real edge – understanding how feed reserves unlock opportunity and protect profit.

• Opportunity in low markets – why falling prices often create the best margins.

• Teamwork in trading – how Catherine's fresh perspective and enthusiasm enhanced decision-making.

• Using data to challenge assumptions – when the calculator shows cattle are overpriced, even if "they don't look done".

• Finding margins everywhere – using the calculator to test scenarios: sell now or add weight? Hold or trade?

• Balancing fieldwork and market awareness – how working together helps identify opportunities they might otherwise miss.

💡 Key Quotes

• "I just look at the numbers and that's the decision."

• "The market isn't the risk for us anymore—the biggest risk is feed."

• "Low prices create the best opportunities because people make silly decisions."

• "The calculator says they're ready."

• "Being able to take opportunities has been a huge part of our success."

🎧 Why This Episode Matters

This episode is a masterclass in thinking clearly about livestock trading: ✔ How to trade confidently—without stress ✔ How to use numbers instead of emotions ✔ How to turn low prices into opportunity ✔ How teamwork and fresh eyes improve decisions ✔ How to remove market risk and focus on the real risk—feed

If you're managing livestock, juggling grass, cashflow, and markets, or looking to improve decision-making on your farm, this episode is full of practical insights about the benefits of attending a KLR Marketing School. Find out more at www.klrmarketing.com.au

Episode: Adaptive Grazing, Sell-Buy Marketing & Ranch Team Culture with Fiona Jackson (Redwing Ranch, Colorado)

Guest: Fiona Jackson, Ranch Manager – Redwing Ranch, South-Central Colorado Host: Grahame Rees Location: Eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains, elevation 7,200–8,500 ft

Episode Overview

In this conversation, Fiona Jackson shares an in-depth look at the evolution of Redwing Ranch — a diverse grazing operation in south-central Colorado — and how adaptive management, flexible marketing, and strong team culture drive remarkable production and financial results.

Fiona walks us through the ranch's landscape, their shift away from set-stocked management, and the sell-buy strategies that generated over 42% return in 180 days being attributed to both a 'good' trade and a rising market, on some trades – without flogging the paddocks. Realistically we were aiming for around a 20% ROI and the 42% ROI in 180 days was phenomenal.

The initial price relationships were showing 24% ROI which is on target for what we are looking for, and then with a rising market contributing as well, we were positioned with the 42% ROI when we sold 180 days later.

Another example on our ROI, our 300 head of stocker heifers this summer had a 21% ROI in 270 day.

We were pleased with this.

She also discusses how their decision-making is grounded in grass availability, not habit or tradition, and why people management is one of the most critical skills for running a profitable ranch.

What We Cover in This Episode 🏔 Ranch Context & Landscape

• Elevation ranges from 7,200–8,500 feet across mixed country:

  • Shortgrass prairie

  • Sub-irrigated meadows

  • Historic irrigated hay ground

• Over 35 permanent barbed-wire pastures, a mile of river, and 20+ watering points

• Temporary electric fencing used to increase stock density and control graze periods

• Typical moves every 3–5 days, aligned with grass growth rate and season

🐄 Operation Overview

Redwing Ranch is only three years into a major transition, and now runs:

• Custom grazing

• Short-term cattle ownership / sell-buy trading

• 3x Airbnb short-term rentals

• A new events & education arm (workshops, field days, women's chainsaw training, grazing schools)

Before 2023, the ranch was leased for 16 years under continuous set-stocking with low ecological response. Today, the focus is profitability + animal performance + ecological regeneration.

💹 Sell-Buy Marketing: A Big Win in 2024

Fiona breaks down their major trade of the season:

Initial Plan:

Run 500 stockers for the summer.

The Problem:

By March, prices became too high to "buy right" — stockers were no longer underpriced.

The Pivot:

They identified an undervalued class: 3rd-trimester aged cows, expecting May–June calves.

All while maintaining ecological goals and not over-grazing their country.

🌾 Grass-First Decision Making

A key takeaway:

"We don't talk enough about grass in marketing." — Grahame

Fiona explains how grass conditions — not markets alone — determined their exit:

By early fall, they had just 60–75 days of feed left. Instead of pushing the system, they:

• Sold all heifers and pairs on one big day

• Did NOT retain calves or keep cows (even though tempting at high prices)

• Switched to custom grazing with a neighbour to protect ecological and financial outcomes.

This avoided:

• Feeding hay

• Market-mistimed selling

• Elevation health risks (PAP / brisket disease) in older cows

Smart, fast decisions = avoided risk + preserved profit.

👥 Team & People Management

Fiona believes:

"Everything is a people problem."

Highlights include:

• Weekly team meetings

• Working-on-the-business (WOTB) sessions

• Intentional hiring of apprentices via the Quivira Coalition

• Hiring for attitude and integrity more than experience

• Clear training systems for new team members

This year's apprentice — zero ag background, previous aircraft mechanic — was a standout due to mindset and willingness to learn.

Key Takeaways

• Flexibility beats tradition: Don't lock into one class of stock.

• Grass drives profit: Plan marketing around feed, not habit.

• Sell-buy works when you identify undervalued opportunities.

• People matter: Culture, communication, and fit are as important as grazing skills.

• Small changes compound: Moving cattle every few days, using temporary fence, and monitoring grass growth create ecological and financial resilience.

Connect with Fiona & Redwing Ranch

Website: Redwing Ranch, Colorado Email: Fiona Jackson (contact shared in the webinar)

https://www.klrmarketing.com.au teach the 5 key principles to running a profitable Livestock business.The KLR Marketing School is a 2 /12 day school for breeders and backgrounder's of sheep and cattle.

https://www.klrmarketing.com.au teach the 5 key principles to running a profitable Livestock business.The KLR Marketing School is a 2 /12 day school for breeders and backgrounder's of sheep and cattle.