A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.
Tonight on APEX Express, guest host Ravi Grover explores the team behind Haibayo, a community base rooted on Argyle Street in Chicago. Listen in!
Haibayo Interview Transcript
Ravi: [00:00:44] Welcome to Apex Express. Today, we’re exploring the vibrant and deeply rooted cultural corridor of Argyle Street, nestled in Chicago’s north side Uptown neighborhood. Known as a historic hub for Vietnamese and Southeast Asian communities, Argyle has long been a place of family, food, resilience, and reinvention.
Today, we’re joined by Jennifer Nuky Pham and Hac, the duo behind Haibayo. This episode is especially meaningful to me because I’m also a resident of Uptown, the neighborhood that Argyle calls home. Chicago has 77 neighborhoods, and when we first moved to Chicago, I lived in Edgewater, which was right on the border of Uptown.
What initially drew us to this area was the affordability, but what truly made it feel like home was its incredible diversity. We had access to American grocery stores alongside Ethiopian, Indian, Pakistani, Mexican, Colombian, Vietnamese, and Chinese markets, and that cultural richness extended to the residents who made up the area. Being next to Lake Michigan, with strong public transit connections to the rest of the city, there was also an added bonus.
I first met Jennifer Pham several years ago at a group puja, a religious ritual ceremony performed in Hinduism and Buddhism. We realized we were neighbors living fairly close to each other, and not long after, she invited me to one of Haibayo’s early gatherings. Haibayo events were always filled with creative and interesting people from all walks of life.
There was always great food, great music, and a sense of belonging that was reflective of the Uptown neighborhood itself. What struck me most was how Haibayo brought together people from different backgrounds and different neighborhoods, and it built something grounded, dynamic, and deeply community-centered. What started out as a series of social events designed to draw people to Argyle and support local businesses has grown into something much more expansive.
Today, Haibayo is a community-rooted force, offering youth arts programming, wellness and healing workshops, music events, vendor markets, and marathons that raise funds for neighborhood causes. In this episode of Apex Express, we’ll talk about how Haibayo came to be, how it’s working to protect and reimagine Argyle’s legacy, and why preserving cultural corridors like this one matters now more than ever. Let’s dive into it.
Ravi: [00:03:29] Hac and Nuky, what’s up? Thanks for joining us. Why don’t we start off with introductions and maybe talk about how your family made their journey from Vietnam to the city of Chicago?
Hac: [00:03:35] Hi, I’m Hac. I’m one of the co-founders of Haibayo. So yeah, my family came here after the Vietnam War, both my parents. So my father actually is the one that came to Vietnam, from Vietnam to Chicago in 1975. He was actually on one of those historic photos of the last day of Saigon and the South Vietnamese government, those helicopter photos. He was on one of those helicopters that left the embassy. So he came after fleeing in 1975 on the 30th of April.
Hac: [00:04:10] He went to Wake Island. And my mom separately, her family also went to Wake Island. It was like a refugee camp. So yeah, my parents, they both left on the last day of April 30th, 1975, which is actually this year going to be the 50th year anniversary of the fall of Saigon. So both of my parents separately left Saigon on that day, and they arrived in Wake Island, which was a US island in the Pacific, and they set up refugee camps over there. My dad actually was an English teacher, like an ESL, teaching other refugees English in the camp. And my mom was his assistant. So they met each other for the first time in the refugee camp after the fall of Saigon. And then my father, he was the only one in his entire family that actually left Vietnam.
Hac: [00:04:55] So he was sponsored, I think after Wake Island, a lot of the folks, they went to Fort Chaffee, which was another refugee base for a lot of Vietnamese refugees in Arkansas. From there, my father was sponsored by Trinity Christian College in Palos Heights, Illinois. So he came here. After graduating, he actually moved to Argyle Street. And then my mom’s side of the family actually was sponsored by a Lutheran church, I believe, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But it was in like 1977. Yeah, I think it was 77. There was a huge snowstorm, historic snowstorm in Chicago that year. My dad was actually at a friend’s house at Sheridan and Argyle Street. And my mom and her friends from UW Milwaukee came down. They were going to intend to go to Chinatown, but because of the snow, they stopped by this person’s house. Back then, there was not a lot of Vietnamese businesses or anything. So people were selling things out of their house, but they reconnected on Argyle Street in 77. So that’s kind of like the history and the background of my parents to Argyle.
Ravi: [00:06:14] So what was it about that specific area that drew Vietnamese people to Argyle?
Hac: [00:06:18] Yeah, so the history of Argyle Street, actually, it was intended to be like a Chinatown north. So it was like an extents of the Chinese community here. I think it was like the Tong Wars. I don’t know if you’re familiar.
Ravi: [00:06:27] Yeah, clans.
Hac: [00:06:28] Yeah. So there was like, you know, the Hip Sing organization versus the Ong Leong, which are two different Tongs that have beef historically. But basically, Hip Sing was not allowed into Chinatown where it is now. So they had to find another home. So that organization actually identified like Argyle Street to make like a Chinatown north in Chicago in like probably the mid to late 60s. So there was like primarily Chinese businesses at the time. But like with the influx of, you know, refugees from Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, a lot of them just migrated to Argyle. I don’t know exactly why. But, you know, I think like Uptown has historically been kind of a port of entry for many people from around the world. And there was like a lot of social service organizations that existed then.
Nuky: [00:07:14] My name is Jennifer Nuky Pham. My parents, they both ended up at Fort Chaffee, the refugee camp that Hac mentioned in Arkansas. They met at the refugee camp. But prior to then, they both fled Vietnam in April 30th, 1975 as well. They both split up from their families. So half of the family on my mom’s side left to, you know, to try to get to the States. And same thing with my dad. And my dad was actually, he had a room at the refugee camp. My mom was looking for one of her friends. And that friend wasn’t at home. And my dad was there. So he was, you know, just trying to, you know, have conversation with her. And then, you know, a love story happened. And then they eventually stayed in touch. And they found out there was some opportunity to be able to get sponsored to go to school at the University of Iowa. After about a year or so, my dad started at the University of Iowa. My mom ended up following later. But during this time, my grandmother and my cousin was in Chicago. And so my dad was going back and forth from Chicago to the University of Iowa.
Nuky: [00:08:16] They eventually moved to Uptown area. My dad started working in a pharmacy right by Truman College. He noticed that there were many Vietnamese people in the area that needed his help translating prescriptions. And eventually he opened up a pharmacy on Argyle Street. My mom chose the location. She thought Argyle Street, right smack in the center of where the heart of Argyle is now, which is on Argyle and Winthrop. She chose that location because she thought it would be, you know, central for Vietnamese folks. Because she noticed there were many folks that lived in the area. And there were some Thai grocery stores close by, which is, I would say, closest to Vietnamese ingredients.
Nuky: [00:08:56] And eventually my dad opened up the first Vietnamese business on the street. It wasn’t the first Asian. He was the first Vietnamese business.
Hac: [00:09:00] But also interestingly, like kind of our family histories, there’s kind of some intersection as well. Her mother and my father actually were classmates in Vietnam.
They went to college together. So they had known each other like during the war, right? Like they were like students. So like that’s where kind of there’s an intersection of like how our families kind of have known each other even before we were born.
Nuky: [00:09:20] We have a photo of them together too, back in Vietnam, which is interesting.
Hac: [00:09:25] Oh, no, that one? No, that one was here.
Nuky: [00:09:25] Oh, that one was here?
Hac: [00:09:25] It was like the graduates from Da Lat University.
Nuky: [00:09:25] Oh, the graduates. Okay.
Nuky: [00:09:29] She looked, they looked so young. Yeah.
Ravi: [00:09:34] Thanks for sharing a piece of your family’s history. Why don’t we segue from the parents and talk a little bit more about your generation? How was your relationship with Argyle as you were growing up?
Nuky: [00:09:44] Well, Argyle was home for me. I didn’t know anything outside of Argyle at the time. Growing up, I grew up on Winona on Broadway, which is just a few blocks from, you know, like the center of Argyle. And I would go to the pharmacy every day with my parents and it felt like Little Vietnam back then. And, you know, you walk outside, everyone’s speaking Vietnamese and Cambodian and Khmer, and you’d hear loud music playing. There were always people just hanging out by their cars, blasting their music. In my parents’ store, their store was blasting music because back then it was a mini mall. So they had, you know, a video rental shop in there and they had a music shop and, you know, kids playing on the corners. And it was just bustling. Like there were so many people outside all the time and everyone knew each other. And if you didn’t know them, then you just knew them by face. But everyone was, I would say, overall pretty friendly.
Nuky: [00:10:31] I mean, you still had to watch your back back in the day, you know. There was a lot of gang activity and there was just stuff going on. But I felt, I would say I feel overall pretty safe.
Hac: [00:10:42] Yeah, for me, it’s a little different history. My parents re-met each other and they lived, my father lived in Argyle. But by the time I was born, they had moved away from the area. So we lived like in the pretty far west side for the first few years of my life. And then we moved to Elwood Park, which is like right at the border of the city and north of Oak Park. And they had a restaurant when I was born, like out there, a Vietnamese restaurant. So my first five years, six years, I don’t really recall Argyle. It was more the years after. So because my dad was part of the Vietnamese Association of Illinois, he was a board member during the 90s.
Hac: [00:11:16] So, you know, my connection to Argyle has always been mostly through my parents’ involvement with the VAI organization. So I mean, like growing up, like we would attend the Lunar New Year festivals, the Mid-Autumn Moon festivals. And during the Lunar New Year, like actually like growing up, like I was one of the child dancers. And also Nuky was a child dancer as well, amongst like all these other youth. So my connection to the Vietnamese community was through my father’s involvement with the Vietnamese Association of Illinois. But also there was a piano teacher not far from Argyle, probably like one of the meanest. Also, you know, you played piano with her. She was like an amazing, talented pianist. But like the way she taught was like very traumatic. Like I remember like any mistake you make, like she had a pencil and she would whip your hand. Like everyone was like afraid of her. But she had like 50, 60 like Vietnamese students. So like we would always have recitals. And like there was like a lot of kind of overlap and weaving between like that group and like people involved in VAI. And like after piano lessons, we would always go to Argyle and eat.
Hac: [00:12:27] So I just remember like, you know, similar to what like Nuky is saying, compared to now, it was much different. I think that like sheds light on the time and era of like migration. Like at that point, it was like roughly 15 years, 10, 15 years into like, you know, being in the US and coming to America, coming to Chicago and settling on Argyle versus now, you know, especially like with a lot of refugees, it takes time to build a life. They lost everything. Like my family didn’t come with anything. So they had to start from scratch.
So that back then, like I would imagine like, you know, similar to my father and my mother and like Nuky’s family, like everyone’s just really getting like starting a new life. So Argyle was home. And like a lot of new businesses opened during that time, right? Like to cater to the community. So yeah, my memory was just like, yeah, like, every time I was there, it was just like it felt yeah, like I’d never been to Vietnam at that point, because I was born and raised here. It felt like Elwood Park, where I was living, it was like a completely different world. You know, obviously, like 20, 30, 40 years on, it’s definitely changed the character of the neighborhood has changed, the demographics have changed. But like kind of the commercial identity of Argyle Street and organizationally, there’s still remnants of, you know, that Southeast Asian identity that exists today.
Nuky: [00:13:39] Well, for me, it was my parents’ business. It was a pharmacy, but it wasn’t.
It was called many things are mini mall. So it wasn’t operating only as a pharmacy back then it was, you know, operating as a video rental shop, you get your film developed their music shop, a sold laser disc and karaoke system. So you walk in there and there’d be loud, like Vietnamese new wave music playing. And sometimes people would be singing like Vietnamese like folk music. And I would say you know, people are there and they’re they’re also buying jewelry and going to see the doctor. So being in that environment where people were in there for various reasons and connecting through their culture and music, I don’t know, I just I’ve always felt comfort in that.
Nuky: [00:14:12] As earlier, I mentioned that I felt safe in the neighborhood. It wasn’t safe, but it felt safe in a sense where it’s like I’m surrounded by my people. So it almost feels like you’re just with family all the time.
Ravi: [00:14:23] Were there any businesses or community spaces, like restaurants or gathering spots that shaped your connection to Argyle when you were a kid?
Hac: [00:14:27] For me, like specific places, there’s like, I would say there’s probably a multitude. Like I did mention earlier, like the Vietnamese Association was like really kind of like the place that I was like, always there on the weekends, but also like to like businesses, you know, like as a child, like, you know, like for Nuky, her memory is kind of through the music, mine’s like through food. And I just remember like, as a kid going to like the grocery stores, like Viet Hoa is still there today on Argyle, just a few doors down from where Nuky’s pharmacy is. And also like what later on, like Tai Nam opened, like just a little north, but just like going through the snack aisle as a kid and getting like Haw Flakes. And I remember like, I don’t know if everyone, I’m pretty sure like listeners will know what Haw Flakes are. They’re the shape of like a quarter, but I remember just loving the taste, but also like trying to like take that with my cousins and like putting into like little vending machines to get more candy. Never worked though, you know, it would just crush it. But yeah, like kind of like the grocery stores, it was just, yeah, it was like bustling, like on the weekends, like people are just, and like Argyle too was like really the only Southeast Asian hub for the Midwest at the time.
Hac [00:15:23] You know, now it’s a lot different where people have moved to like different areas and developed like grocery stores and other commercial districts that are predominantly like Southeast Asian. But back then, it was like everyone from like Wisconsin, Michigan, like the surrounding states would come to Argyle. So it felt like not only did Nuky feel it like, you know, during the week, it’s like even more heightened of like this kind of like, you know, these are our people. And it, for me, it was just like exhilarating because I would, like in Elmwood Park at the time was like all Italians. I was like the only like Vietnamese kid, like in school, you know? So like to go from being the only like little Vietnamese boy to like, you know, like these are my people. And having that like distinction at such a young age, like for me, it felt like this neighborhood was special because of that. Through the food, you know, through the people. And like there’s a noodle shop that still exists today, Double Happiness. I remember going there all the time with my family. And like even if you look at the menu today, like it’s literally a Xerox copy with like, like from the original, they just whited out the menu, like the price and like just increase it and like photocopy. It’s still the same exact menu. It’s probably like 50 years like of a photocopy. So like kind of just like those kind of like sensory memories, like through, you know, eating.
Nuky: [00:16:26] For me, going to from the pharmacy every day, my brother and I would get bored as kids. So for us, we’d go to Hoa Nam, which was a grocery store across the street every single day. Every day we would go there or like, you know, pick up some soy milk or a lychee drink or, you know, a Haw flakes, white rabbit candies, Pocky sticks, Hello Panda, you know, there’s just so many snacks that we would eat every single day. But I remember going to Double Happiness all the time as well. That’s one of our favorite restaurants.
Hac: [00:17:33] Yeah, yeah, it was the same block.
Nuky: [00:17:35] So, you know, we ended up there and I used to go to, I used to like eat pho all the time too in the area. Yeah. And we’d go to Hon Kee all the time. My dad was at Hon Kee maybe once, one to two times a week, every week. He would frequent all the restaurants and he’d make friends with all the folks.
Hac: [00:17:52] And yeah, there’s not many, you know, legacy businesses from that era that still exist today. Like I would say Double Happiness is still there, Viet Hoa, Hon Kee, Sun Wah. Hai Ying, but before Hai Ying, it was called Mai’s Fashion. Yeah. So like, like I feel like those four, like back from the 80s, like kind of maintained and for a mob, of course, but those are like more Chinese restaurants. But yeah, yeah, the food. Yeah.
Ravi: [00:18:17] Since we’re talking about local businesses that are no longer around, why don’t we touch on the broader issue of gentrification in the area? What changes have you noticed? And how is Haibayo working to preserve the neighborhood’s culture and also support local businesses?
Hac: [00:18:29] Yeah, I think generally, like there’s been a lot of kind of shifts demographically. For one thing too, is, you know, like with gentrification, yeah, like what Nuky said, it was not a safe area, right? Argyle specifically, which is part of the larger Uptown area, is a very lucrative plot of land in the city of Chicago because it sits right next to Lake Michigan. So, for like many, many years, like Uptown has been kind of a contentious neighborhood. Like who does it belong to? Depending on if you’re kind of more affluent, non-BIPOC, like there’s always this desire to revitalize, quote unquote, this neighborhood to make it nicer. The shift has, I think it was really like the late 90s to the early 2000s. You see like the demographic changes. I think, like when I was in grad school for urban planning, like I looked at the numbers from like the 80s, 70s, 80s, 90s, versus like the 2000s moving forward. And like the white demographic was like in the 70s, 80s was like low. It was like 30%, but also too, like a lot of the white population then was also like Appalachian white folk who were like also persecuted against like white, other white folks, you know, they were like, Hey, you know, these are uneducated, poor white folk. And there was like that whole rainbow coalition that existed back then between like the Black Panthers and like, you know, like certain different groups of people like Appalachian whites during the civil rights era. But yeah, since like the 2000s, like that 30% of white folk have like doubled and almost like a little more than doubled. So like the African population has decreased to under 10%.The Asian population is like at 5%, 6% now. And the Latinx demographic has also gone down. And it used to be like home to like the Native American organization in Chicago, they’ve been kind of displaced and pushed over to Albany Park.
Hac: [00:19:48] So you see this kind of like gradual shift and like the desire of the city as like this land is so valuable. And wanting to revive it as like this entertainment district of the 1920s. So like these policies like within the city have spurred gentrification in a way where a lot of people of color, especially refugees and immigrants who have found home in Uptown, and more specifically, Argyle have been pushed out. So like the property values have like skyrocketed over the years. I remember even when I was in college, and this was like, early 2000s or something like you can find a studio like for 400-500 bucks, everything included. Like in Uptown, I looked at a few in Uptown. And now it’s like a studio is like, you can’t afford it’s like, you know, obviously you have to account for like inflation, but it’s not, it’s like 1500, you know, so like, it’s not affordable, you know, for families who are, who are struggling. And a lot of it is, you know, immigrants and refugees that have called Uptown home.
Nuky: [00:21:19] Yeah, so years ago, my father was approached by a larger pharmaceutical corporation, and they wanted to basically take over the pharmacy and like buy it out. At the time, my dad, you know, wanted to retire and, and just sell it. But after having a conversation with my dad, I started to realize how important the pharmacy was to the neighborhood. And it being the first Vietnamese business on the street, and it being a staple in the community, and it being, in many ways, a cultural hub for, for the community for many years. And I realized that it was, you know, I wanted to just continue to see it stay there. I think from there, I just, you know, I guess it, it made me want to step up as a, as a community member. I’ve always wanted to get away from Argyle Street. I didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Although I grew up there, I always felt that it was going to remain there. It, you know, you grow up in a space in an area where you have, you make so many memories there, you, you met so many people there, and you never think it’s going to go away. And that was the first time I realized that it could go away, that it could change in a way that I wouldn’t feel comfortable with. So I would say that that’s where my, my love story started. Again, with Argyle Street, it’s like with with what we’re doing right now is a love letter to my younger self.
Ravi: [00:22:46] Before we continue our conversation, we’re taking a short music break to honor someone whose spirit continues to resonate deeply here in Uptown, John Vietnam Nguyen. John was a gifted artist, rapper, poet, and activist who spent his childhood and teen years right here in our neighborhood. Through his music and spoken word, he used his voice to speak truth, build community, empower and inspire youth, and push for justice. In 2012, while still a college sophomore, John tragically lost his life while saving a friend from drowning. His legacy is still very much alive. A mural dedicated to him stands just off the intersection of Argyle Street and Winthrop Avenue. In a historic moment, he became the first Vietnamese American in Chicago to have a street named in his honor, Honorary John Vietnam Nguyen Way, located on the 5000 block of Winthrop Avenue. To honor his memory and influence that he planted in this community, we’re sharing one of his tracks. This is “If a Minute Would Reverse.”
Ravi: [00:27:14] That was If a Minute Would Reverse by John Vietnam. You can find more of his music streaming on YouTube, Spotify, and other major platforms. Now, let’s get back to our interview with Nuky and Hac as we continue exploring the story and spirit of Haibayo.
Ravi: [00:27:32] Could you please speak a little bit more about how this incident of you persuading your father not to sell his pharmacy kind of acted as a catalyst for the creation of Haibayo?
Nuky: [00:27:45] After having a conversation with my dad, at the time I was in acupuncture school, I had this idea of bridging east and west ideas when it came to healing. And so my dad was happy with the idea. And so I started to take on a more important role at the pharmacy. But when working with a parent, it’s not always easy. And since it’s, you know, the pharmacy has been his baby for all these years, we actually bumped heads pretty often. And the ideas that I wanted to implement, he was happy about at first, but he wasn’t ready to change. And I didn’t think that that was going to be an issue, but it was for a few years. So instead of making the changes from within, I thought it would be a good idea on my end to start connecting with the community so that people at least knew that the pharmacy existed. I started making a list of the people that I, the people and organizations that I wanted to reach out to. One of the people that I wanted to reach out to was Hac, because he’s like a friend from when I was younger. And I just wanted to reach out to people that I remember growing up with. And I also felt that if I were to connect with people that I grew up with, they would perhaps have the same sentiment I had about Argyle Street. Because I feel that if, when you come to Argyle, you don’t, you know, at the time, it just, it felt like it was a dying area after a while.
Nuky: [00:29:21] Like I would invite friends to come eat on Argyle, nobody wanted to come, you know, they would suggest going to downtown or, or Wicker Park, or, you know, just another area of Chicago. And so it was almost like pulling teeth trying to get people to come to Argyle, which is very different from, from what how I remember it back in the day. So Im you know, started making a list. And, and then eventually, I started to meet with organizations in the area. And then Hac came into the pharmacy one day, dropped off a flyer for the first event, right, with the Uptown Chamber. And it felt very serendipitous, actually, because I had a dream about the future of Argyle and how I thought it would end up and and so I, I was able to see Argyle go in two directions. I saw it thriving and then I also saw it dying, dying out and it was just another area that, you know, was like something from the past and it just didn’t sit right in my stomach to, to have it, you know, just get lost to history and when Hac came into the pharmacy that day, I just felt that, you know, it was, was my cue to step up and, you know, do something about the community and after having a conversation with him, we eventually threw like a market together with some other folks. It was like an art, yeah, it was like a vendor market. Just, I wanted to just involve creative friends and we really just wanted to test it out. Eventually, Hac, you know, one day he was just like, hey, you want to throw a party?
Nuky: [00:30:54] I was like, yeah, actually I, I have a background in nightlife. I’ve thrown parties all over the city. I’ve been a bartender for many years and I had never done anything in Uptown, which is where Argyle is and so we’re like, yeah, let’s just throw a party and see what happens and when we had this conversation, we happened to be sitting inside of our friend’s restaurant, Hong Ngu, and we’re like, we should just throw a party here. Like, let’s just, let’s just see what happens.
Ravi : [00:31:15] I remember that. Okay, and yeah, I mean like your parties had really good turnouts, right?
Nuky : [00:31:16] Yes, I was very surprised at the turnout because when I would throw events around the city, I knew the people that were coming in, the people that were coming into our parties.
Hac: [00:31:27] I didn’t know anyone.
Nuky: [00:31:27] Yeah, I was surprised. It was like most of the people that came in, I never met them in my life, so I, I was surprised. Like you, we just, again, we just put it out there and, you know, just to see what it was going to be, but the intention of it was to bring folks back to the community and so we had Vietnamese street food. I came up with a Southeast Asian cocktail menu, Southeast Asian DJs, and we had a 12 a.m. late night pho hour. I remember my parents dragging me to their parties growing up, and they would sing all night, and at the end of the night, they would close out the evening with a noodle soup, and so I just wanted to bring, you know, something from our culture into the mix, and I would say it was a great turnout. We were doing it every month, and it grew fast. It grew fast, and we, we ended up moving it into a larger loft location.
Ravi: [00:32:30] Yeah, so you started off with social events and parties, but then over the years, it kind of evolved into something different with other types of programming.
Nuky: [00:32:35] We didn’t start this thinking that we were going to start a non-profit organization and work with the youth. Our intention at the time was just to bring people back to the neighborhood. As time went by, we would pivot into different role each time we were able to step up, if that makes sense. Like, for example, the pandemic hit. Like, okay, well, what are the needs now of Argyle Street? We need to start promoting the businesses. You know, people, people don’t have money to spend on food. Like, let’s give out free groceries. Like, what, like, what can we do? So, I feel like we’re met with an opportunity. We see what the needs are, and then we just fulfill it
Hac: [00:33:10] Yeah, like, so the, yeah, the origin of Haibayo was, you know, it was always kind of the main intention of, like, hey, what can we do to just draw people back? Right? Because, like, I think, like, we were reminiscing about, like, Argyle of the past. It’s, like, so bustling, you know, whatever happened to all these other kids that, you know, especially when we reconnected. It’s, like, what happened to all these other youth that we knew growing up? Like, no one’s here. Like, there’s not many of us, like, from back then that still come here. So, that was, like, one of the reasons why we did this. It was, like, okay, let’s come up with a cool name. Haibayo, actually, like, what Jennifer said earlier, it was, you know, like, there’s this element of food. There’s this element of drinks and music. And that’s, like, a very quintessential, like, Vietnamese thing, which is nhau. It’s like, really drinking and eating together. And in a way, it’s building community, right? Like, you, you, you’re breaking bread, whatever, through drink and just connecting with your neighbor, your friend, your community. So, that, that’s why, and, and a thing with, like, Haibayo, that’s, like, the saying when you’re nhau within the Vietnamese culture. You say, like, one, two, three, in, two, three, in, two, three, in. Translated it to English, or to Vietnamese, it’s more Haibayo, Haibayo, Haibayo. So, you know, we were thinking, like, like, Haibayo seems like a catchy name. Like, no one really knows what it means. Like, even, like, Vietnamese people, when they’re, like, oh, Haibayo. You know, it’s, like, oh, it’s from, like, that drinking thing and just building community. So, we chose that name. But, you know, like, what, what she’s saying, like, you know, we started with always the intention of, how do we bring people back to Argyle? Because in the back of our mind, it’s always about this space. How does it exist in the next five, ten, fifteen years? But it wasn’t, like, this grand scheme of, like, how do we come up with this massive plan for that? It started with, like, really just, like, hey, let’s just draw people here. And through that, we evolved, right? Like, similar to what Jennifer said, the pandemic hit. We shifted to, you know, more community-focused work. Once things started opening, we expanded kind of the social, cultural aspect onto the street with, like, you know, street festivals. So, we did, like, the Argyle Activation Walk, which really engaged a lot of the businesses, the restaurants specifically, but also added an element of, like, young AANHPI craft and artisan vendors, as well as musicians and other creatives.
And we did that again with the Mid-Autumn Moon Festival, like, in the fall. So, we did that two years in a row.
Hac: [00:35:52] And, like, another opportunity came up where, where we are now today, it’s like, you know, we partnered with Q-Ideas, but, like, a grant opportunity came up to, like, redevelop a space. So, we’re like, hey, let’s just, let’s just try, you know, in partnership with Q-Ideas, which is a legacy business, as well. Helen from Q-Ideas, like, she took over the business from her father. They started, like, in the early 2000s, and they’ve owned multiple businesses in the area, and their grandparents, as well. So, it was like, you know, it just made sense that, like, you know, another legacy business, the second-generation person of this family, partnering with us and us partnering with them to apply for this. And, you know, eventually, we got this grant to redevelop 1132-1134 West Argyle Street, which is, like, right next to the Red Line train station. And, you know, that’s where we are today, in terms of, like, our brick and mortar. So, it’s always been this, like, weird evolution and evolving, like, but very unintentional. Like, opportunities arose, and we said, hey, why not? But always, in the back of our mind and in our hearts, it’s always been about, like, it’s always for the community, and, like, how do we think critically about, like, what we do? And that’s why it’s, like, a lot of stuff we do. Like, when someone asks, like, what is Haibayo, it’s, like, a little difficult for me even sometimes to, like, give you what it is, like, give you an explanation of what it is.
Yeah. I would say, you know, like, Haibayo was really a multifaceted, like, kind of community, cultural, economic development organization, but also, like, a business. So, you know, we try to do a lot, and we’re not really just—I think, like, one of the things that she mentioned is, like, looking at the needs.
Hac: [00:37:15] There’s, like, really great organizations on Argyle that have been doing critical work for, like, the community for many years. Like, us coming here, we didn’t want to do the same thing, because there’s other needs, right? And what we felt like, you know, how we evolved over time was, like, what we identified, really, and how we got into an organizational level, you know, like, in 2021, 2022, we got our 501c3 was, like, hey, you know, there really isn’t, like, something that’s talking about—so, yeah, like, as we got our 501c3 status, and, like, you know, right after the pandemic, you know, we identified the need as, like, hey, there isn’t an organizational presence of, you know, cultural preservation, and my background is urban planning and policy, and my master’s project, like, 10 years ago was, like, this type of third space for, like, Argyle, which kind of—it’s, like, weird to see, like, what Haibayo—it’s very similar to, like, what I thought about in the past, and, obviously, you know, working with Nuky, like, that has developed Haibayo to be that. But, yeah, I think, like, it’s always—it’s this unintended, like, process and path towards where we are now, and that’s—like, we couldn’t have been luckier, and it’s, like, for the love of the community and, you know, our home, so. But I remember the first Haibayo event at Hong Ngu. Like, so Charlie, like, mixed—because I was, like, up there on the mic, was, like, Haibayo. I felt like a cult leader. Everyone, like—I was, like, Haibayo! I felt like some, like, weird cult leader. We wanted to teach people how to say it, so I got on the mic, yeah. But, yeah, it’s interesting, like, how we started as, like, what we knew, right? Like, it’s, like, through, like, hey, let’s have fun. Let’s bring people here. And, like, from, like, that point in 2019, six years later to, like, like, we’re having a brick and mortar—you know, we’re grant-funded.
Hac: [00:39:01] We’re—we’ve evolved to, like, something much bigger and, I think, like, more impactful. And, like, building the collaborations, like, with the Alderman, or Alderwoman Leni Manaa-Hoppenworth, which is, like, the first Filipinx Alder in the 48th ward, and also, like, the first Vietnamese-American, like, congressman. So, like, you know, like, we’ve evolved to a point where, like, we’ve built, like, these great partnerships and relationships with not only artists and, like, artists and craft vendors and, like, chefs and creatives, but, like, on different scales, on different levels, to, like, really think and advocate for, like, the community. You know, there’s no blueprint in how to, like, think about anti-gentrification work and also cultural preservation. You know, there is something that I went to a few years ago. Like, I think a lot of, like, Chinatowns and Little Saigons across the U.S. face the same thing that we face here on Argyle Street, and that’s, like, how do you preserve culture and the cultural identity of the space and not be displaced? So, there’s, like, you know, a lot of work and strategies and tools that a lot of organizations and academics, like, you know, have developed in terms of, like, this type of work, and we’re learning it ourselves as we, kind of, evolve and grow and be that kind of other entity beyond all the great organizations that already exist on Argyle, and how do we partner with them to, like, kind of push this work of cultural preservation.
Ravi: [00:40:26] Can we talk more about your brick-and-mortar space and some of the new programming that you’ve all introduced?
Hac: [00:40:34] Haibayo, our space itself functions, kind of, like I said earlier, it’s, I would describe it as, you know, a social enterprise, which means there’s a for-profit element as well as a non-profit element. So, we are going to have a cafe, tea house element, and eventually, you know, a music space in the back that is always, kind of, rooted within our culture, but also, like, some of that funding will go towards our non-profit programming, which we also have a 501c3 status. So, like, how we’ve evolved, like, we’re going to have, like, really four key areas. One is, like, you know, similar to, like, what we’ve done in the past of activating the streets through street festivals, cultural festivals of that nature. We still want to maintain that through our activate program. So, anything, like, street-public realm related, we want to continue and develop further and grow that. There’s also regenerate, the idea of, like, which is new to us too, like, me as an urban planner, what I think is really important and critically is thinking about tools and implementing those, like, strategies, specifically for cultural preservation of, like, these ethnic enclaves. So, we recently just applied for a grant. Actually, it’s based, I think, on the west coast, northwest coast, to get some funding and have, like, this learning circle about, like, cultural preservation of, like, the little Saigons, the Chinatowns. So, you know, that’s, like, one key area that we were trying to evolve and grow. Another one is cultivate, which is our youth programming, kind of more social service, but, like, through the arts across multi-generations. So, like, youth to, seniors and elders that we want to develop as well. And then finally, captivate, which is our fourth area of programming, which is kind of our own more, like, curated events. More specifically, like, right now, like, we were a recipient in 2023-2024 through a healing grant through the Department of Cultural Affairs and Special Events to do kind of a four-pronged event, which you were part of, actually. But that, like, you know, it’s, like, kind of food ethnography talks, film through healing practices
Hac: [00:42:45] So, we want to, like, curate our own programming that engages with not only our community, but, like, other BIPOC communities as well in talking about, like, how do we maintain home, but also, like, share our culture with one another. So, like, that’s kind of, like, how we’re evolving and moving towards, sort of, the future.
Ravi: [00:43:04] Before we continue our interview, let’s take another short break for a piece of music that speaks to healing and cultural memory. This next track is by Crossing Borders Music, a multicultural collective that uses music to amplify voices that are often marginalized. We’re about to hear “Fishing Dance”, a traditional Khmer folk piece from Crossing Borders Music’s Cambodian Music for Healing set, performed live at the Chicago National Cambodian Heritage Museum. Here is Fishing Dance from Crossing Borders Music.
Ravi: [00:48:13] Alright, that was Fishing Dance by Crossing Borders Music. If you enjoyed that, you can find Crossing Borders Music on YouTube. Now, let’s get back to our conversation with Jennifer and Hac.
Ravi: [00:48:26] Do you feel like there is interest among younger people to carry the torch of the work that Haibayo has been leading?
Hac: [00:48:34] So, one of the key areas that we really strive for is, oftentimes, like, within our community, there’s a huge gap between, like, seniors and the young generation, and that’s where we want to kind of fill that gap and draw that bridge. So, like, a lot of our programming engages the youth and engages the elders and engages, like, multi-generations. So, I think, like, it is critically important, you know, as us as a young organization and entity to definitely engage youth because, like, one of our missions is to really build future leads to carry on this work, right? I don’t think it should stop with us. You know, we’re not that young. I mean, I’m, like, 40. You know, we’re not getting younger. So, I think, like, you know, this type of work and, like, cultural preservation work and the future of Argyle doesn’t start and end with one person. It has to continue on through building future leaders who want to carry on that work. So, you know, for us, I think it’s critically important to engage the youth, build leaders, and through that program of regenerate, like, one of my aims and goals is to, like, how do we talk about urban planning? How do we talk about cultural preservation, community economic development work in the younger generations so they can be community leaders of tomorrow? So, that’s, like, yeah. I think that’s, for me, that’s critically important, and we’re actively trying to do that in terms of, like, youth programming, engaging volunteers, interns that, you know, feel like our work is impactful. And there’s a lot of young, you know, AAPI youth. Like, there’s the Vietnamese student associations at, like, multiple colleges that we’ve engaged. They volunteer for us. So, how do we sustain and build that relationship? Because, you know, Argyle, even though they’re younger, it is, like, they feel at home. They come to Argyle, they support the businesses.
It is a pathway and a gateway to their Vietnamese culture, and they’re, like, the third generation now, right? Fourth, even. So, it’s, like, this place, a tangible, physical place for them to really experience, like, their grandparents’ culture, their parents’ culture. So, I think it’s an opportunity, and it’s happening now, but, like, how do we kind of even strengthen it for the future?
Ravi: [00:50:44] Before we wrap things up, could you let the listeners know how they can support your work? Share your website, your social media, where they can find more info on getting involved, signing up to volunteer, maybe making a contribution?
Nuky: [00:50:58] Sure. To get more information from Haibayo, you can visit haibayo.org, and that’s H-A-I-B-A-Y-O dot org, or you can visit us on Instagram, H-A-I underscore B-A-Y-O (@hai_bayo).
Hac: [00:51:15] You know, we are 501c3 now. We’re a very small organization, you know, so, like, any type of help, you can find us at haibayo.org, H-A-I-B-A-Y-O dot org, to learn more about our programming. You know, there’s ways to support either your time through volunteering, always accepting donations in terms of, like, monetary or other types of donation, equipment to help support the work that we do, in terms of, like, cultural preservation and cultural activation work on Argyle.
Ravi: [00:51:44] All right, thank you very much. Thanks for all the work you’re doing for the community. Appreciate you sitting down and talking with us.
Hac and Nuky: [00:51:47] Thank you, Ravi. Thank you so much for having us.
Ravi: [00:51:49] Thank you.
Ravi: [00:51:58] A few weeks after this podcast was recorded, Nam Chau Pham, the father of our guest, Jennifer, sadly passed away. He was a pioneer on Argyle Street, opening the first Vietnamese business in the area, and he played an active and influential role in shaping the community for decades. He is survived by his wife, daughter, and son, and will be deeply missed by all those who knew him. We dedicate this episode to his memory.
Ravi: [00:52:24] Special thank you to our guests, Jennifer Nuky Pham and Hac Tran, for joining us and sharing their stories. And thanks to you, our listeners, for tuning in and being part of this journey through Argyle and Uptown. As we close, may we continue to support spaces like Haibayo that preserve and transform these legacies for the next generation. Please check out our website, kpfa.org, to find out more about Haibayo and the guests we spoke to. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions for the world. Your voices are important.
Ravi: [00:53:12] Apex Express is produced by Miko Lee, Ayemi Kian Lee, Anuj Vedia, Cheryl Truong, Jalina Kian Lee, Piti Mangalasekar, and Swati Rajasthan. Tonight’s show was produced by me, Ravi Grover. Have a great night.
The post APEX Express – 7.3.25 – Haibayo appeared first on KPFA.
