It's harder than ever to define what it means to be evangelical in America. But one constant? The Trump support. "The MAGA base is very real inside these evangelical spaces and it's not accurate to try to separate them," says scholar Kristin Kobes Du Mez, who herself has an Evangelical background. She tells Niala why white Evangelical power is stronger than ever for Republicans in 2024.

• Plus: Axios' Sophia Cai on what she's seen covering the Evangelical vote on the campaign trail, and why it matters that more pastors are spreading their word on social media.

Guests: Kristin Kobes Du Mez, professor of history and gender studies at Calvin and the author of the book "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation."

Credits: 1 big thing is produced by Niala Boodhoo, Alexandra Botti, and Jay Cowit. Music is composed by Alex Sugiura. You can reach us at [email protected]. You can send questions, comments and story ideas as a text or voice memo to Niala at 202-918-4893.