In which John Heilemann talks with Kurt Andersen, the host, writer, and co-producer of the podcast series "Nixon at War," a seven-part exploration of Richard Nixon's downfall through the less of Vietnam. Heilemann and Andersen discuss Andersen's thesis that the war in Southeast Asia and the Watergate scandal, the twin disasters of Nixon's time in office, are not separate stories but deeply entwined; the astonishing archival audio, much of it from Nixon's White House taping system, that makes the series come alive; the striking similarities between Nixon and Donald Trump, personal (insecurity, paranoia, resentment) and political (us versus them divisiveness, appeals to white grievance, demonization of the press); and the direct line between Nixon's criminality and disregard for democratic norms and today's Republican Party. Andersen also reminisces about growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, during the Vietnam era, and his transformation from a Nixon-supporting eighth-grader to a pot-smoking, McGovern-backing, Abbie Hoffman-loving high schooler.

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