America has now gone through this multi-decade long period where the fashionable belief was that people are at their best when living unfettered lives. Things like community, tradition, religion, are mostly—in this view—just hokey, backward relics of a bygone, credulous era. And while living without these things may make us kind of miserable…at least it’s safe and comfortable! If there’s one thing we know how to do well in America today, it’s cheap, shallow, unthreatening culture.

But what would our society look like if we aspired to something much greater, albeit scarier. What if we took a chance on commitment to something obligatory; to building community with people we may not particularly like; to experiencing wonder in a de-mystified world?

To unpack all of this, Ari Lamm brought on writer and podcaster extraordinaire, Kylie Unell, to talk about God; 19th century philosophy; race and identity politics; “the universe” in pop culture; and what Spinoza got wrong.