Lasers in Skin

Today, Mike and Lisa dive into the intricate science of hair follicles and the role of melanin. Mike shares insights from his recent research, including the significance of the dermal papilla and the matrix in hair growth cycles. They look into how laser treatments target these components, the complexities of hair follicle regeneration, and the implications for effective hair removal.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Hair follicles occupy indentations in the skin, with a complex structure that includes the dermal papilla and matrix, which play crucial roles in hair growth and signalling.

The dermal papilla acts as the signalling centre for hair follicles, controlling their growth and degeneration. Disruption of its function could lead to hair loss, making it a key target for effective hair removal treatments.

The concentration of melanin in the matrix of hair follicles is significantly higher than in the hair shaft itself. This means that even with reduced fluence from laser treatments, the matrix can absorb more energy due to its higher melanin content.

The effectiveness of hair removal treatments may depend on the timing of the treatment in relation to the hair growth cycle, particularly targeting the anagen phase when the matrix is fully formed and contains melanin.

The Fitzpatrick scale for skin tones is overly simplistic, as it does not account for the wide range of melanin concentrations within darker skin tones. A proposed new scale includes a "skin tone 7" to better represent this variability.

BEST MOMENTS

"The current thinking is that we have to kill the stem cells which reside in the bulge... is it that simple? Or is there more to it?"

"The dermal papilla is kind of described as the nerve centre, the headquarters. It controls the growth and degrowth of the follicle."

"If you can kill the dermal papilla cells, then you knock out the signalling centre."

"The concentration of melanin in the matrix is significantly greater than the concentration in the hair."

"I think we need to kill both the papilla, which is the nerve centre, and probably also most, if not all, of the stem cells in the bulge."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

In this second part of their listener Q&A, Lisa and Mike clear up common myths (like whether it’s possible to “overcool” a follicle), explain why pre- and post-cooling matter so much, and dive into the big debate: stamping vs. the gliding SHR method. They also share some important safety insights, and talk about why having an LPA and LSO is essential for running a safe, professional clinic.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

It is not possible to "overcool" the hair follicle before a laser treatment, as a dark, melanin-rich hair will still absorb enough energy to reach a destructive temperature, even if the surrounding skin is chilled to 0°C.

The purpose of pre- and post-cooling (e.g., with ice packs, air, or cryo systems) is to cool the skin, not the machine's optics, and is essential regardless of whether you are using a Diode, IPL, Nd:YAG, or Alexandrite laser.

The preferred technique is stamping (one-by-one pulse application) over the gliding SHR method, as stamping allows for a higher fluence, which more effectively raises the temperature of the hair follicle to ensure complete destruction.

It is highly unlikely for a white cotton pad to catch fire with a Q-switched Nd:YAG or Pico laser, even at the highest fluence, because white cotton is highly reflective and has poor absorption of the energy.

Clinic safety involves a daily checking routine, proper training, and having a designated Laser Safety Officer (LSO) on site, but finding a qualified Laser Protection Advisor (LPA) is the best starting point for a new clinic.

BEST MOMENTS

"The cooling is to to negate that temperature build-up in the epidermis and help to reduce pain."

"But my thought on this, why are you shooting anywhere near the bloody pad anyway?"

"The technology really has no bearing on it, because it's got nothing to do with the technology, it's all to do with cooling the skin."

"Buying the equipment, getting the training, getting premises, that's the easy part. The difficult part is is promotions and marketing and getting the clients in."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today, Lisa and Mike tackle a series of listener questions. Mike shares a personal anecdote about his own sun damage from a recent trip to Italy, despite his usual advocacy for sun protection. He also discusses a curious case from early in his career involving a client's red tattoo that turned black after a laser treatment, a phenomenon he explains is an oxidation process. They consider the complexities of laser technology, the importance of training, and the nuances of treating different skin tones, particularly with diode lasers.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Mick discusses an early case where a red tattoo pigment unexpectedly turned black after a Q-switched Ruby laser treatment. Mick explains this is a genuine chemical oxidation reaction, a different process from the simple fading of permanent makeup (PMU) inks.

Mike and Lisa emphasise that most lasers on the market are effective, but the key to good results and safety lies in proper training and understanding the technology.

Mick humorously recounts getting sunburned in Italy, despite his reputation for wearing a t-shirt in the pool to protect his skin from UV rays.

The composition of tattoo ink, whether metallic/organic (pre-2000s) or polymer-based (post-2000s), significantly affects how it reacts to laser removal treatments.

BEST MOMENTS

"The red ink all turned black. And I remember him coming back and thinking, 'Oh my God, what is this?' I'd never seen it before."

"So what's happening there is not an oxidation process at all. What's happening is purely the darker inks are fading, revealing the lighter colored inks."

"Don't believe all the flannel that you hear from the sales guys, because they'll tell you anything to sell a machine."

"We will not support any machines that we don't absolutely love."

"The 1064 nanometer wavelength is the most benign wavelength that we use."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Lisa interviews a very special guest today - her dad, Mike Murphy, a true pioneer in medical aesthetic lasers. From being captivated by the moon landing as a kid to diving deep into physics and astronomy, Mike’s lifelong love of science eventually led him to make history by opening the world’s first private tattoo removal clinic using Q-switched lasers. His story is equal parts inspiring, nerdy, and groundbreaking.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Mike Murphy was born in an RAF hospital in Germany and lived in various countries due to his father's military career, including Holland, Singapore, and Northern Ireland. His early curiosity about science and technology was influenced by significant events like the moon landing.

In 1989, Mike and his colleagues established Dermalase, the world's first clinic using Q-switched Ruby lasers for tattoo removal. This clinic became a pioneer in the field, attracting clients from across the UK and even internationally.

The company faced challenges, including a bankruptcy in 1996 due to a premature product launch in the U.S. market. Despite setbacks, Mike continued to innovate and adapt, eventually expanding into training and consulting in the laser industry.

Mike is now focused on training professionals in the aesthetics field, emphasising the importance of proper education and safety standards in using laser technology. He is also working on new research projects and aims to continue contributing to advancements in the field.

BEST MOMENTS

"I was born in an RAF hospital in Germany, because all military bases across the sea are Crown property, so they're part of the UK."

"You could have been Elvis in the laser world, that would be so cool."

"We were the only clinic in the world, apart from the clinic in the hospital. We were the only private clinic at that time."

"I wrote up a thesis to present for PhD and then I read it and didn't like it. I thought this is a pile of sugar."

"You guys introduced aesthetic laser tattoo removal to the UK and the world."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today, Lisa and Mike delve into the intricacies of relaxation times in relation to laser treatments, particularly focusing on tattoo removal. They clarify previous discussions about the relevance of relaxation times, emphasising their importance when dealing with tiny ink particles in tattoos. They explore how these particles behave under laser energy, the mechanics of steam formation, and the differences between nanosecond and picosecond lasers.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Relaxation time is crucial when considering tattoo removal because the tiny ink particles can lose heat rapidly. This means that the energy from the laser must be delivered in a short enough time to create steam bubbles that help break down the ink.

While picosecond lasers are marketed as superior to nanosecond lasers, both can effectively remove tattoos. The difference in effectiveness may not justify the higher cost of picosecond lasers, especially since nanosecond lasers have been successfully used for decades.

The process of tattoo removal involves heating the ink particles, which leads to steam formation. The explosive force from the steam causes the ink particles to break apart and disperse, making them easier for the body to eliminate.

The pulse width of the laser is significant; shorter pulses (picoseconds) can deliver energy more effectively to create the necessary temperature rise for steam formation. However, nanosecond lasers can still achieve this effect, especially with proper technique.

BEST MOMENTS

"Relaxation time is much more important when you are considering tattoos. These particles are incredibly small, they can be easily down at like 40, 50, 60, 100 nanometres in size."

"If you heat up these ink particles using laser energy, they will lose that energy extremely rapidly."

"The ink gets hot and some of the heat diffuses into the water, creates steam and the macrophages explode."

"I always say it depends on your budget, but also how much money have you got to waste?"

"Sometimes the old stuff is still very relevant because it still works."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Today, Mike and Lisa dive into a passionate discussion about the ongoing debate between two hair removal techniques: stamping and Super Hair Removal (SHR). Lisa expresses her frustration over misleading social media posts that claim stamping is outdated and ineffective, while SHR is the superior method. They explore the importance of technique in both methods, emphasising that neither is inherently better if not applied correctly.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Both stamping and Super Hair Removal (SHR) techniques can be effective for laser hair removal, but their success heavily depends on proper application. Incorrect techniques can lead to ineffective results regardless of the method used.

The fluence (energy delivered per unit area) is crucial for both stamping and SHR. Low fluence levels can result in inadequate heat accumulation in hair follicles, leading to poor treatment outcomes.

New claims about lasers being safe for tanned skin are met with scepticism. The skin's response to tanning indicates underlying damage, and treating tanned skin with lasers can pose risks of further damage and ineffective results.

Claims about the effectiveness of SHR and its advantages over stamping should be backed by credible research. The lack of accessible studies supporting these claims raises concerns about their validity.

It is essential to prioritise client safety by advising against laser treatments on tanned skin. Proper healing time should be observed to avoid potential skin damage and ensure effective treatment outcomes.

BEST MOMENTS

"So these things I get sent from different laser techs or people that we've trained, kind of just saying, huh, is this right? And obviously then we have to say, meh. Maybe not."

"If you're doing too big an area, the target is going to be reducing its temperature every time before you get back to it."

"The problem is though, as far as I can tell, most people are not doing it correctly."

"What people have to understand is that when you get a tan, what you are essentially seeing is the result of a damaged skin."

"It's a really dangerous thing to be promoting as new technology. It's not new technology."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Lisa and Mike delve into a series of curious cases they've encountered in their laser treatment practice. They discuss unusual reactions from clients, including prolonged redness after cooling treatments and unexpected swelling in sensitive areas. The conversation also touches on the challenges of treating stubborn hair in the bikini area and the complexities of tattoo removal, particularly with dense ink

KEY TAKEAWAYS

One client experienced prolonged redness on her lower legs after laser hair removal treatments, suggesting a possible mild inflammatory response to the cooling process rather than the laser itself. This highlights the importance of monitoring individual reactions to treatments.

Another client, who is very sensitive to cold, had a significant reaction after a standard cooling duration. Adjusting the cooling time to less than two minutes still yielded good treatment results, indicating that individual sensitivity should be considered in treatment protocols.

Labia hairs are noted to be particularly stubborn during hair removal treatments. Many practitioners face difficulties achieving complete removal in this area, which may be due to deeper hair follicles and the unique tissue composition of the labia.

A case involving a client's tattoo removal revealed that excessive ink density in a specific area led to severe blistering and infection. This suggests that the amount of ink and the depth at which it is placed can significantly affect the healing process and treatment outcomes.

BEST MOMENTS

"The fact that she's seen this for days afterwards is very strange. That kind of suggests there is some sort of mild inflammatory response to the cooling."

"Labia hairs are bloody stubborn. It's a well-known fact in the industry that it's not just a few people struggling with that area."

"If you have an excess of ink put into a particular area, then you're going to have an excess of microscarring."

"I suspect that is most likely down to the very high density of ink in that particular region."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.  

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com 

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

Light Scattering and Laser Treatments: What You Need to Know

In this episode of Lasers in Skin, Lisa and Mike explain how light scatters in the skin during laser treatments. They uncover the risks of treating tattoos, pigmentation, and permanent makeup (PMU), and debunk the myth that white tape or pencil can safely protect tattoos. Listeners will also hear about Mike’s upcoming experiment on different light wavelengths and what it means for safer, more effective laser procedures.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Light scattering in skin – how lasers and light bounce within the dermis, creating risks if not carefully managed.

Risks of treating tattoos – why lasers and IPL near tattoos can cause unintended damage or unwanted changes.

Why distance matters – maintaining a safe distance from tattoos and pigmented areas is critical, with factors like wavelength and skin type influencing the risk.

Permanent Makeup (PMU) concerns – the pigments used in PMU can react unpredictably to lasers, causing colour shifts or skin damage.

Professional assessment is essential – moles and pigmented areas should always be checked by qualified professionals before laser treatments to ensure safety.

BEST MOMENTS

"The light scatters all over the place, in the dermis and everywhere, and back out of the skin. But the sideways scattering is what could cause problems if you are treating close to a tattoo or to some pigmentation."

"If you fire a millisecond laser at tattoos, then we do not get the same sort of reaction that you would with a Q-switched or picosecond laser."

"You can't just laser on top of this and hope it's going to be okay, which I've seen people do just because they're trained to do that."

"The darker colours, the browns and blacks, they'll absorb quite strongly. The reds and yellows will absorb quite poorly. So what's going to happen is the browns and the black colours, they'll fade preferentially."

"If we're going to be going over freckles, we might remove these freckles. As long as people are happy with us to do that, then I'm happy to go ahead."

HOST BIOS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.  

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com 

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

In this episode, Lisa and Mike discuss the concept of thermal relaxation time (TRT) and its relevance in laser treatments. They explore the historical context of TRT, tracing its origins back to discussions between physicist Dr. John Parrish and dermatologist Dr. Rox Anderson in the 1980s. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding how heat affects blood vessels and hair follicles during laser procedures. Lisa and Mike also introduce the concept of thermal diffusion time (TDT) and emphasise that the key to effective treatments lies in the denaturation time of stem cells, rather than solely focusing on TRT or TDT.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

This is the time it takes for the temperature of a target (like blood vessels) to drop to 50% of its peak temperature. It is crucial for determining how to effectively use lasers for treatments.

The concept developed by John Parrish and Rox Anderson, which emphasises the importance of matching the laser wavelength to the target's absorption characteristics to achieve effective treatment outcomes.

This is the time required to heat stem cells to a temperature that effectively destroys them. It is more critical than TRT or Thermal Diffusion Time (TDT) when it comes to ensuring the success of hair removal treatments.

The effectiveness of a treatment depends not only on the temperature reached but also on how long that temperature is maintained. Higher temperatures can reduce the necessary time for effective treatment.

Most of the denaturation and chemical processes occur after the laser pulse has finished, meaning that the effects of the treatment can continue even after the energy delivery has stopped.

BEST MOMENTS

"The whole point of the thermal relaxation time calculation was to say, let's confine the thermal energy within the blood so that it doesn't spread out everywhere during the pulse."

"If you're trying to kill a hair follicle, we know that you have to basically kill the stem cells."

"We don't care about TRT. Herein lies the problem. If you're basing your timings on a relaxation time, which is a cooling time of the hair, they are irrelevant."

"The higher the temperature, the shorter the time you need to cook. So at 80 degrees, you might need one millisecond. 90 degrees, you might need 0.1 millisecond."

"Most of the actual chemical process of denaturation and cooking occurs after the pulses, not during."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

In this episode, Lisa and Mike discuss their recent experience as a VTCT approved training academy, focusing on their first cohort of students completing the Level 4 Certificate in Laser and Light Treatments. They share insights on the assessment process, highlighting the challenges and peculiarities of the VTCT regulations, particularly regarding hygiene practices and the emphasis on gloves. They also touch on the current state of proposed regulations for the aesthetic industry in Scotland, the implications for both medical and non-medical practitioners, and the importance of proper training.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

The VTCT process emphasised minor details, such as glove changes, which may not reflect real-world practices in clinics. This led to a discussion on the need for a more practical approach in assessments.

The current VTCT syllabus lacks sufficient emphasis on the scientific principles behind laser and light treatments, which are crucial for practitioners. The hosts aim to enhance their course content to provide a more thorough understanding of these concepts.

Proposed regulations for the aesthetic industry in Scotland are being discussed, with concerns about the representation of industry professionals versus the general public in the consultation process. The hosts advocate for regulations that ensure safety without unfairly restricting non-medical practitioners.

There are warnings about training academies that may mislead potential students regarding the qualifications needed under the new regulations. It's essential for practitioners to ensure they receive accredited training that aligns with future regulatory requirements.

Mike and Lisa express a strong commitment to providing valuable training that goes beyond basic requirements, emphasising the importance of thorough education in building confidence and competence among practitioners in the aesthetic field.

BEST MOMENTS

"We need to be more mindful of the regulations because at the moment we live in the wild west. It's crazy what happens."

"The problem that I had was that I wanted to talk about groovy stuff like affluence and wavelengths, but we just spent an awful lot of time talking about gloves and gel."

"We have about 12 to 14 weeks for full duration. It's not just a couple of days and out your door here's your certificate."

"Just because they're medically qualified doesn't mean they automatically know more. That's not the case."

"Be really careful because there are companies out there that are sadly feeding on this and they're loving it because they get vulnerable people."

ABOUT THE HOSTS

Mike began his career in medical lasers in 1986 with a physics degree and a post-grad in bioengineering. He helped develop the scar-free removal of tattoos using a Q-Switched Ruby Laser in Glasgow, and the world's first IPL system. Known well in the industry for his hard truths, no BS attitude and logical answers. As the author of three books, articles for medical journals, a well read blog, a Laser Protection Advisor and contributor to the BMLA, Mike is the Laser Guru.

Lisa's claim to laser fame is being Mike's daughter. Growing up with lasers and never avoiding a physics lesson from her Dad, it was natural to enter the industry. Leaving a corporate career with a baby to jump into self employed life came with challenges. Despite that Lisa has been well recognised for her teaching style, practical tips, bringing the compassion to the science, and laser mentoring.

Instagram: @dermalase_lasertraining

https://mikemurphyblog.com

https://www.dermalasetraining.com

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/