As President Trump was about to walk out of the White House for the last time, he made some final pardons. Ken White and Josh Barro talk about who got one in the final days of the Trump presidency, who didn’t (the Capitol rioters, Donald Trump Jr. and the other Trump children, Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump himself), and whether that was bad legal advice. Would it have been wise for President Trump to give the self-pardon a shot? How many people, pardoned or not, are at risk for prosecution by state officials?

Plus: who will represent Donald Trump in his upcoming impeachment trial, and is it really a thing that Rudy Giuliani can’t represent him for ethics reasons? Ken and Josh also talk about whether “but President Trump told me to do it” is a good defense, Mike Lindell, and the new name of this podcast.