Launch With Words

Matt Levenhagen of Unified Web Design works with businesses to translate their visions into code. He's been working on the web for 20 years and his business just passed its five-year mark.

https://www.thebuilders.fm/
https://www.unifiedwebdesign.com/
https://twitter.com/mattlevenhagen

This episode focuses on why custom WordPress websites allow you to scale your business, how maintenance allows you to make "quick changes," and ends with five quick takes you'll want to hear.

"Once you have that website, especially on WordPress, the beautiful thing is that it can grow with your business." Matt Levenhagen

Did you miss my last appearance on his podcast (July 2022)? Watch it on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbmexJxfu6E

Listen to more episodes of the Launch With Words Podcast on your favorite podcast player or on the landing page for the podcast, hosted on Castos.

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

Sherry Holub of JV Media Design is "Your trusted partner for worry-free custom websites + design." She is the Creative Director at JVM Design with over 25 years of experience designing custom WordPress sites. When she's not helping support nonprofit and LGBTQIA+ businesses, she's taste-testing cupcakes and fostering cats.

https://jvmediadesign.com/

This episode focuses on why it's important to hire a professional, how custom sites help small businesses, and what you should look out for in security and marketing scams out there.

"You may be the expert in your business, but you're not the expert in everything." Sherry Holub

(Did you miss our first conversation? Watch it on YouTube.)

https://www.youtube.com/live/-RyoY1QTGbc?si=0OBv2nxwTCAMMWVS

Listen to more episodes of the Launch With Words Podcast on your favorite podcast player or on the landing page for the podcast, hosted on Castos.

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

It's 2023 and the Launch With Words Podcast is back. If you haven't listened to episodes before, feel free to start at Season 1. I don't put my episodes behind a paywall.

This season is going to be all about WebDevs. I'll be interviewing people who build websites to help you, the small business owner, understand the process and participation that goes into website launches. 

WebDevs: I just released the Launch With Words SEO Mini-Pack and that is available here.

https://bit.ly/LWWSEO

September 2023 will include an eCommerce Mini-Pack. And I'll also be taking requests for topics. 

Do you just post like a robot, schedule everything, and never respond? When's the last time you took a look at your target audience? Who are they -- really? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by writer and developer Hashim Warren for an insightful conversation on the importance of humanity in marketing.

"So the way that I've grown is understanding that not all of their business has to transact through the website. So I used to oversell the website as a part of the sales process now I'd say your website is your recommendation tool -- even when you have great word of mouth. That person who's receiving that referral is going to look you up online. You want your story to be the first thing there." Hashim Warren

Follow Hashim on Twitter

https://twitter.com/hashim_warren

Justice Year Newsletter

https://justiceyear.com/

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

http://bit.ly/LWWPremium

Do you just post like a robot, schedule everything, and never respond? When's the last time you took a look at your target audience? Who are they -- really? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by writer and social media manager, Carol Stephen, for an insightful conversation on the importance of empathy in our marketing.

"I think empathy is more important than ever. And if somebody's bullying somebody else, for example, that doesn't go over. You know? People are quick to jump in and help that person. I think that's become more evident over the last couple of years" Carol Stephen

Follow Carol on Twitter

https://twitter.com/carol_stephen

Carol Stephen's Blog

https://yoursocialmediaworks.com/blog

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

00:22.64
Bridget Willard
Hey hey! Welcome to another episode of Launch With Words. This is season 2, episode 8 with my very good friend Carol Stephen. Carol, how are you doing today?

00:33.77
Carol Stephen
But I'm doing great today. It's a wonderful day. We just had a big rainstorm and we're in the middle of a drought. So we're very happy. Oh yeah, everybody just loves going outside after the rain.

00:41.50
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's good and I love the way it smells after the rain. It's just, it just feels, it smells so fresh and clean and it's just wonderful. Gets all the pollen out of the air.

00:59.35
Bridget Willard
So, when it comes to like you're small. I mean I know like you have roots in technical writing and you've worked with a lot of startups in the Silicon Valley area of the Bay Area of California but you also work with small businesses. So a lot of times you're doing the writing but I imagine sometimes people are like where do I even start? I mean what is your advice to small businesses who know they need to be blogging like we've said it enough like how do they even start.

01:32.74
Carol Stephen
Oh my gosh. Well I think the number 1 thing is they have to find their audience. So they need to know who their audience is. Like who is that person in the middle of their target? And I think for some people, that's probably changed since they started their business and they might not have revisited who their audience is. So if it's been two or three years I'd really recommend that people revisit figuring out who their target audience is. Now you don't necessarily have to pay somebody to help you do this but you you know you could find somebody who's just outside your business and someone who'll be honest with you to give you some advice.

02:14.35
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's really important. Rhonda with Fat Dog Creatives and I are doing a presentation at our small business chamber in a couple weeks. And we're like your website has to talk to your customer. It's not about you and then we both said that to each other and then we both went and looked up our own websites really quick.

02:35.25
Carol Stephen
Ah, well, that's right because I was thinking about my own business and it's changed so much. So I mean this is something that I'm telling myself as much as I'm telling the person listening to this that um that person that you were targeting is not the same person. And that that goes for everybody. So a refresh is good even if it is the same audience is it's a good reminder to do this exercise to figure out who that person is so.

03:03.60
Bridget Willard
Yeah, for sure. So once you know that your audience is like property managers, for example, how do you um, find those topics to you know to write about that will resonate with property managers?

03:21.10
Carol Stephen
Well I think one thing that really helped me was figuring out who my target audience is, you know, what they look like specifically. And that means like physically what do they look like.

03:36.41
Bridget Willard
Okay.

03:39.20
Carol Stephen
But also socially what do they look like? And like psychographically what do they look like? So that means and that's probably the most important thing is knowing what people believe, what they dream about, what their fears are, what their desires are.

03:45.15
Bridget Willard
Wow.

03:57.73
Carol Stephen
That kind of thing that and that's beyond. You know the the very basic thing of knowing the demographics you know like age and sex and race and that kind of thing the invisible ones.

04:09.34
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's it can you give us an example of when what that would look like for someone? Like psychographically that's that's a ¢75 word Carol, like I've never heard that but it makes so much sense.

04:21.95
Carol Stephen
Um I think Seth Godin used that word and yeah, by the way here's an actionable tip and that is to go and look at Seth Godin

04:28.52
Bridget Willard
That makes sense that was Seth Godin. Ah, how do they think we're going to look at them psychographically.

04:41.68
Carol Stephen
Look at some of his videos on YouTube and that will help you a lot so figuring out those pain points. You know like your audience. Do they have a good grasp of technology? How do they spend their free time? And how does your product or service fit into that person's life?

05:00.13
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, those are all good questions.

05:01.24
Carol Stephen
So you know you may have to go and and do a um you know a questionnaire or something with some of your top audience members to figure out some of these questions. You know what are the answers that these what health issues do they have?

05:17.32
Bridget Willard
Yeah, and we do evolve. Like I love that you're talking about essentially that persona document or those personas and then evolving them. So like you know me I'm bullish on Twitter and I've I've I've said so many times that personas are basically legitimized stereotypes. But at the same time I always say, of course, you have to have a persona but you also need to reevaluate it. And that's why I love Twitter because you can see how people have changed even how they're speaking within your own industry. And the problems that they're having. You know like COVID hass completely shifted the way we think about the houses we want just because a lot of knowledge workers are working at home and they're going to always work at home because they choose it.

06:09.26
Carol Stephen
Bright right.

06:14.10
Bridget Willard
So now they need that third bedroom. But what if you have 2 people that both need an office and they can't be in the same room because they're driving each other banana pants. Yeah.

06:23.83
Carol Stephen
Banana Pants! Another ¢75 word. Well, I think for people you know in the real estate market. It's important to have an outdoor area and you can move your office outside or at least. Work outside a little bit of the time when the weather is good so that's something that people could do.

06:39.91
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, so once the small business owner is like okay I've been doing this for a while. I've reevaluated who Bob is he goes by Robert now because he wants to be viewed as more of an adult. And you know, he's he's still watching science fiction. But really, he just subscribes to Disney plus. And his big problem as a property manager is he doesn't want to have to deal with all these you know electrical. You know, energy costs -- the, the energy costs being so high. So you're a window film company, for example, and how do you? How do you reach Robert who's having to deal with high energy costs and managing his facility?

07:19.30
Carol Stephen
Um, yep.

07:28.55
Carol Stephen
We always talk about energy saving as well as cost saving. And cost saving is something that it doesn't matter whether there's a pandemic or not, everybody is interested in saving money. So that's got to be one of the top things that you talk about no matter what field you're in.

07:38.56
Bridget Willard
Yes.

07:47.27
Carol Stephen
You know, how does this product save you money? You know and if you can make that an emotional topic or you can somehow create some humor around the topic that also helps. You know, so we tend to have a lot of funny content. You know the blog posts are often funny because you know at a certain point. You're just repeating yourself when you're talking about something like window film. And a lot of these niche topics are like that you have to find a new angle.

08:14.32
Bridget Willard
Yeah, and you're really good with using humor Um with throughout content marketing. So like okay so yesterday now this dates this episode, but last night Will Smith um basically bitch slapped Kevin Hart on the stage of the Oscars and I've already seen on Instagram this morning three memes just from businesses here in San Antonio, Texas.

08:37.40
Carol Stephen
Right.

08:48.41
Bridget Willard
I mean like everything can be a joke and it's never like too soon anymore. I was like wow that was like five hours ago you guys.

08:52.18
Carol Stephen
Right? Yeah right, There used to be like a certain amount of time before people felt safe to talk about it. But I think with the rise of social media, that time is like really decreased. And also people are on a lot more.

09:07.72
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, how do I mean? how do you use humor in ah in a good way with you know you like a service-based business?

09:17.85
Carol Stephen
Um, what I find is that you write the blog post or whatever you're you're creating first and then you inject humor into it at the end. Now. Yeah, and then you have to you have to be really.

09:25.69
Bridget Willard
Ah, aha that makes a lot more sense.

09:34.69
Carol Stephen
Careful with humor because it can backfire as as Will Smith found out, right.

09:35.34
Bridget Willard
Oh for sure. Yeah, don't choke about anybody's wife ever and then you're fine. But like, dude I was like I've really liked her outfit but like her face said more than Will Smith's slap.

09:43.57
Carol Stephen
Right? Especially if they're sitting right there in the audience looking at you.

09:53.19
Carol Stephen
Yes, yes.

09:54.14
Bridget Willard
Poor thing. But you know that's the thing is humor is tricky because we all have different things and as it gets closer to our reality, it feels more offensive. like you know, um, but but it's.

10:06.21
Carol Stephen
Um, you can.

10:13.28
Bridget Willard
Nobody wants to read technical papers. You know.

10:15.50
Carol Stephen
Right? right? So what I would do is create some kind of it doesn't have to be a manual but it just a few things that you're not going to talk about or you're not going to write about. So I think it's important to have empathy for your audience.

10:30.47
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's really where the humor comes in like you can I feel like it's on thing to make fun of yourself. It's a totally different thing to make fun of other people. But you could like you know do a Dave Letterman top 10 reasons why you like paying high energy bills.

10:36.43
Carol Stephen
Right.

10:47.22
Carol Stephen
Um.

10:49.70
Bridget Willard
You know? You could do the opposite you know, Um, instead it's more. It's more like casual and fun. It's not like you really do hate the world and want to ruin the environment. Like it could be like just top level like that.

10:53.83
Carol Stephen
Ah, yeah.

11:08.57
Bridget Willard
But it could be a little more engaging and people are like oh Wow I didn't know that I could get at installation that has a higher R-value or whatever like that. You know, um?

11:16.36
Carol Stephen
Um, right? and it's always adding a little knowledge in there but making it funny too like using more casual language.

11:24.10
Bridget Willard
Yeah, so for people that are looking to hire someone to write for them because they're like you know they're doing their own yoga studio they're doing pilates classes. That's.

11:36.47
Carol Stephen
Um.

11:39.24
Bridget Willard
That's what consumes most of their time their own business Development. You know, creating the flows for example, and how does that person even go and find a ah freelance writer like yourself? How did they even start that journey to find someone to write for their business?

11:56.53
Carol Stephen
I would talk to friends and then you know friends of friends. And you can go online and start seeing you know, like who is writing about this? I mean Google's your best friend you have a library in your pocket.

12:00.95
Bridget Willard
Yeah, just ask them.

12:09.37
Bridget Willard
Ah, that's true. Oh man, it's just come a long way since the ah microfiche and a roll of dimes hasn't it? But ah so like when when a client comes to you.

12:19.96
Carol Stephen
Um, yes, definitely. This.

12:28.21
Bridget Willard
Do you have a qualification process or do you do test projects? How does that work?

12:31.54
Carol Stephen
Um, it's important for me that I don't have to talk them into my services. Like I want that person to already be qualified when they contact me at this point. You know I'm not going to talk to somebody that needs to be convinced about the power of social media. I mean, ten years ago? Maybe. You know, but now there is no way, especially after the pandemic people really have realized how important it is.

12:50.23
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

13:00.27
Bridget Willard
Oh for sure. I'm the same way I'm like listen I'm not evangelizing you to Twitter anymore. I've written some blog posts. If you don't like money, I don't know to tell you. Do you want people to see your stuff or you just don't care like about your business at all?

13:19.22
Carol Stephen
Yeah, no, if yeah and I usually know like right away off the bat If if they don't believe in social media or they don't see how powerful it is. I mean how do people find you?

13:31.35
Bridget Willard
Yeah, my when they say "word-of-mouth," I'm like what do you think social media is? Just a bunch of Will Smith memes today. But like you know, two years ago with some other meme. You know it's just a Karen meme or whatever it's you know.

13:36.24
Carol Stephen
Yeah, exactly right.

13:50.65
Bridget Willard
I I feel like the pandemic has really intensified our use of humor as a coping mechanism. And.

13:55.85
Carol Stephen
Oh for sure. It'll be interesting to see how it that changes after the Pandemic's completely over.

14:02.30
Bridget Willard
Yeah I mean I don't I don't even know how much our society's been indelibly changed by our isolation. You know? And so that's why I feel like even more important now than ever it is to to be top of mind. I mean even even here in San Antonio people are finally going to like chamber events in person and like the small business council I'm on.

14:22.41
Carol Stephen
This is.

14:31.12
Carol Stephen
Um.

14:35.88
Bridget Willard
We're finally having in-person meetings. But they're all virtual before. You know? They were still virtual and and even when you're with the other people and you have a mask you don't see all those smiles. You know? So we've we've lost a lot of what makes us relate to other people and other businesses.

14:37.78
Carol Stephen
Um.

14:45.57
Carol Stephen
Right.

14:51.39
Carol Stephen
Um, and then.

14:54.94
Bridget Willard
And so I feel like it's even more important to convey that through imagery and words on your website and social. Um, how do you think it's changed with people posting Um you know on Linkedin or Twitter? Have you seen any of that really change the last couple of years with small businesses?

15:15.69
Carol Stephen
I think empathy is more important than ever. And if somebody's bullying somebody else, for example, that doesn't go over. You know? People are are quick to jump in and and help that person. I think that's that's become more evident over the last couple of years.

15:28.96
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

15:35.65
Carol Stephen
You know, because like everybody's struggling. Everybody's struggling right now. You know?

15:37.43
Bridget Willard
Yeah, a hundred percent. And that kind of goes back to what you're talking about earlier, which is you know who is the person in the middle of your target? How do they think and how do they feel and what are they afraid of?

15:48.76
Carol Stephen
So.

15:56.81
Bridget Willard
It's almost like method acting would you say?

15:58.52
Carol Stephen
Yeah, you really have to get inside the skin of that person. You have to figure out what's important to them and then find out how you can help that person. You know it doesn't matter so much that it's your service but you know. You can talk about other things that are going to be important or that are pain points.

16:16.55
Bridget Willard
Yeah, what do you feel about more personal blogging when it comes to a business owner? I mean I know like ah some of my clients appear on podcasts and they talk a little bit about why they started their business.

16:31.25
Carol Stephen
um ha

16:33.56
Bridget Willard
And how they started their business where they went to school and things like that. I mean does any of that is that valuable? Or is it too much? Do you have a yeah.

16:41.58
Carol Stephen
I think it is valuable. Because you never know what it is that's going to make somebody hire you or buy your service or product. And I think it is valuable. I mean, of course, if you're a nazi maybe maybe don't talk about that. You know? But I think it's valuable. Yeah.

16:47.98
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

16:53.99
Bridget Willard
Yeah, for well? yeah yeah I feel like it's I think people are reluctant to give up personal details. But I'm always like there's got to be something. If you like golfing then just say you go golfing and then.

17:00.59
Carol Stephen
Now.

17:04.45
Carol Stephen
Um, yeah, if you're crazy about dogs. You know? yeah.

17:13.61
Bridget Willard
Yes, and then it gives us something to talk to you about. Because, you know, a lot of times you you come across a business on social and then go their website and it's just like [sad sound effect]. Like show some personality. There's gotta be something you're willing to tell us.

17:24.28
Carol Stephen
Right? exactly? so.

17:33.43
Bridget Willard
Don't put your social security number up there. And um, stop doing the date of birth things on Facebook. But like it'd be nice to know, you know, if you if you're you know watching March Madness or.

17:40.83
Carol Stephen
Ah.

17:48.31
Carol Stephen
Um, who.

17:50.89
Bridget Willard
If your people already left. Or if you prefer a latte or Chai latte or you don't even drink tea at all? You're just all about mineral water. Like who are you?

18:00.69
Carol Stephen
Yeah I I think those things are are valuable to share. You know, for example, and I was thinking about my own Target audience. It started out a lot older and it was mostly women who weren't very tech savvy. And then it, my whole audience became younger more tech savvy and it included a lot of startups. And now I'd say my target audience my target market are mostly Asian. And I really love that so you know it's a way for me to go back to my roots and figure out what where I came from and it's just so interesting to see how things change.

18:41.97
Bridget Willard
So as you the business owner are evolving your priorities evolve and that's sort of reflected in the persona that of the people that you're working with. Wow.

18:47.98
Carol Stephen
Are.

18:53.48
Carol Stephen
Yes, exactly and you don't know what it is. That's going to attract people.

19:01.25
Bridget Willard
That's so true. I mean when I first started it was it was all about WordPress people. I don't have. I have one WordPress client. Yeah and my other tech client is it is sort of WordPress adjacent. But it's it's not. It's really for Jamstack. So like my my biggest client is of big data company and my second biggest client is a science company and then my next client is ah cremation company. And let me tell you about the death care industry. There's a lot they have their own trade shows. They have their own podcasts. It's really. is a different world. Death death care. Yeah, like cremation, urns, funeral.

19:43.20
Carol Stephen
Um, I'm not sure I heard what you said Death Death. Oh Death care. Wow. Um, wow.

19:53.81
Bridget Willard
parlors, writing obituaries. It's totally like a different. It's like completely opposite of like building websites. Yeah, and so I'm like. But my my experience with being a widow right? And writing about life insurance and understanding life insurance. And one of my clients we write ah for baby boomers and it's just like that's all stuff that I've been through. I understand Medicare. I understand what they cover and what they don't.

20:29.33
Carol Stephen
Wow. You know.

20:31.11
Bridget Willard
So it's like as I've aged and experienced life, people have gravitated gravitated toward me because of my personal story. And I feel like part of what I'm extracting out is like live your life in a truest way to yourself and then allow that to attract the ideal customer for you. You're so awesome. Ah, love it to the moon and back carol. So how do people find you on the internet or how do you want them to find you.

20:53.28
Carol Stephen
Um, yeah I love that. that's that's amazing. No, you. To you for sure.

21:08.56
Carol Stephen
Well I Actually I'm so busy right now. I got even busier during the pandemic and you know for a lot of people or a lot of businesses they their businesses slowed down. So I feel very blessed that my business is really booming.

21:09.75
Bridget Willard
Do you want them to find you? ah.

21:28.19
Carol Stephen
So I'm not really taking new clients right now. But who knows? Anything could happen. Yeah I would love people to read my blog and that is getting more personal, too. So I'll probably be writing about some of these things that we talked about today.

21:33.12
Bridget Willard
Do you want them to read your blog?

21:45.40
Bridget Willard
I.

21:47.32
Carol Stephen
On a blog post in the future because I'm, I'm still continuing you know once a week to be to create some kind of a post. And oh it's YourSocialMediaWorks.com.

21:51.80
Bridget Willard
Awesome! So Do you want to tell people that website address? Awesome! Thank you So much Carol, You're the best. Yeah I'm gonna press Outro. Don't hang up yet.

22:03.58
Carol Stephen
Ah, Ah, thank you is It is that it. What? okay.

Is blogging bad or a waste of time? Do home remodelers and design-builders have to blog? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by SEO Writer, Tess Wittler, for an insightful conversation on why small businesses should care about publishing regularly on their websites.

"Your website is your Number 1 piece of digital real estate." Tess Wittler

Follow Tess on Twitter

https://twitter.com/TessWittler

Tess Wittler's Website

https://tesswittler.com/

Are you ready for the Done For You Newsletter?

https://bit.ly/DoneForYouTess

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

00:19.11
Bridget Willard
Hey, hey! Thanks for joining me again on another episode this time with my longtime friend Tess Whitler. She is a remodeler and custom home builder marketing solutions person. She is that Marketing Department that you want. She has a Done For You Newsletter Program. She is amazing. She is smart. Tess, welcome to the show. So I know that you have been writing in the service industry for contractors for

00:40.92
Tess Wittler
Oh it's great to be here. Bridget thank you.

00:52.41
Bridget Willard
a very long time enough to have a MBA if if we were just handing them out. How do we get people who are small business owners, how do we get plumbers and yoga teachers and manicurists to care about having a blog on their website?

01:12.79
Tess Wittler
Wow so you know that's kind of like the million-dollar question but it really boils down to a couple of things, right? So it. It boils down to um Google likes fresh websites and fresh content. So what better way to do that than to have a blog? But more importantly than that, I think that 1 thing that a lot of small businesses sometimes forget is as we're feeding that Google Monster, you know, common, everyday customers -- they check you out before they ever pick up the phone to call you. You know they go to your Facebook page and they go to your Instagram and they go to your Google My Business or Google Business Profile as it's called now. And they definitely go to your website to learn more about you to see if.

01:54.94
Bridget Willard
Hm.
Bridget Willard

02:07.76
Tess Wittler
number 1 you offer the services that they're looking for and number 2 if you are the right solution. So I think even more important than, than SEO which is definitely my geek zone and I love that space. But I think even more importantly than that, it's just to be able to be there to help your potential customers understand what you do and get to know you better.

02:28.41
Bridget Willard
Oh for sure. I mean yeah, if Marcy told me to go to Alamo City Plumbing because my bidet is leaking, Ah, I'm gonna go look and see if they even talk about bidets. I'm gonna look and see if they have reviews I'm gonna check out their, you know, Facebook Page. Are they still even in business? Do they have Instagram? What is going on with this place? And I think that most people have overly obsessed on what's being found ah on a Google Search Engine Result or the SERPs. Um as opposed to "plumber near me."

02:49.93
Tess Wittler
Yep.

03:06.77
Bridget Willard
Ah, "manicurist near me." I mean how many of us are doing those searches?

03:10.77
Tess Wittler
All the time every single day.

03:14.10
Bridget Willard
Yeah, because I don't really care about you know a manicurist who's in Nashville. I don't even care about a manicurist who's in San Antonio. I want a manicurist who's in Southtown that I can go walk to when ah my cuticles are looking like they do right now.

03:30.52
Tess Wittler
Right? right? right? And so you know going back to the original question with, you know, how important is content? So you know that content then becomes -- and I am huge you follow me for years I am huge with repurposing content. So.

03:47.23
Bridget Willard
Yes!

03:49.88
Tess Wittler
So, having a piece of content and finding 50,000,000 ways to use it over the long haul. So you know you you write a blog article. You know, how you know, "how to tell if a bidet is leaking," for instance.

04:02.92
Bridget Willard
Oh.

04:05.28
Tess Wittler
And you post that on your blog because your website is your number 1 piece of real estate -- digital real estate -- so it needs to go there first. And then perhaps you post it on Facebook and then maybe you post an image of it on Instagram with a little bit of explanation -- because, of course, you can't do links. Um and then, you know, you post it on Twitter and you post it on Google My Business. And ah you know you, you use it once -- there immediately. And then three months later, guess what? You get to do it again.

04:33.82
Bridget Willard
Ah, yeah, yep.

04:39.72
Tess Wittler
Um, so yeah I mean you have to, you have to care about content. And then you have to constantly be -- I don't want to say constantly because people get scared when they say, "oh my goodness we have to blog 5 times a week?" Those days aren't necessarily here anymore. But you do need to be adding new, fresh new content to your website on a regular basis.

05:00.13
Bridget Willard
Oh yeah. That's, that's the thing I always emphasize is it's more like a metronome. You know, we say consistent and then like I'm not even consistent. So like Fridays, I have it in my calendar -- which I just deleted them all because I'm just so used to doing it -- But Fridays in my

05:11.51
Tess Wittler
Um.

05:19.55
Bridget Willard
calendar -- I, I do something to my website every single week because I know it changes the sitemap and that is what that's how Google sees the consistency. So you want that that same beat going on. Whatever it is. So that's why with, for example, with the Launch With Words Starter pack -- that's free -- it has blogging prompts so that you will publish something once a month. because that is consistent. Right? Now, if you want to use them and do twelve weeks at a time --that's twelve weeks and then you're done. That's fine, too.

05:47.00
Tess Wittler
That.

05:56.80
Bridget Willard
But hen you're not going to be consistent later. So it's 10. Especially now, especially in this post-pandemic. I don't know if we're even "post" because a pandemic isn't over. But in this like new global economy with things So uncertain. I just saw like three businesses close on Instagram yesterday. It's. We have to have that validation part. In the agency, my agency days, we talked about validation and discovery. Like this is why and blog isn't a four-etter word. It is but it's not like Oh mommy bloggers. It's so such a derogatory term. But it's publishing articles so that you are seen as the expert in your field. Like why am I going to you> Why would I get ah dip nails instead of gel nails? You know?

06:43.26
Tess Wittler
Absolutely.

06:53.13
Tess Wittler
It's a credibility builder. So, you know. You know, there's There's so many positive reasons for you know, making sure that you are adding blogs, adding articles to your blog on a consistent basis. You know, um.

06:54.72
Bridget Willard
Yes.

07:08.98
Tess Wittler
from my perspective and, hey we can use the plumbers perspective too, but I write for a lot of custom homebuilers and high-end, design-build remodeling firms. And one of my favorite pieces of content is what I call project stories. But yeah, so you can in.

07:20.96
Bridget Willard
Oh yeah.

07:26.30
Tess Wittler
You see this all the time on Facebook or Instagram where you have before and after photos. So instead of just showing the before and after photo, actually write 300, 400, 500 words along with that to talk about the project. Whatever that project is. Whether it's a toilet replacement or a shower reinstall or you know tile work or you know -- in my world -- you know Ah, an addition, a home edition or a new kitchen remodel. I mean those are amazing pieces of content that you obviously put back on your website somewhere.

07:51.98
Bridget Willard
Me.

08:02.50
Tess Wittler
Whether it's your blog or your portfolio or somewhere. And then, you know, it's evergreen content. It'll last for years and years and years. And then, of course, I always encourage my clients to use email newsletter. And and put that in your email newsletter. And that's a great piece of content to show credibility of your craftsmanship, show inspiration to inspire new homeowner, or to inspire homeowners that are like, "oh I really want a kitchen upgrade, too." So It's It's a great piece of content that can be used over and over and over again.

08:36.90
Bridget Willard
And just to go back to the before and after, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen on Instagram -- because that's like my little soothing place where I barely sell myself -- is I'll look at before and afters and I'm like I'm not sure which one is the before and I'm not sure which one is the after. So you need the context. Why did you change this kitchen? Did, did you get pregnant again? Is Grandma moving in and the counters need to be lowered to accommodate for a wheelchair?

08:53.39
Tess Wittler
Agreed Yes, yup.

09:08.77
Bridget Willard
What is the reason behind this remodel?

09:13.88
Tess Wittler
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. What was the why? And then what did you discover? Because there's always, I always try to incorporate some type of challenge. Especially in home improvements remodeling is there's always a challenge. There's always something behind the walls that you weren't anticipating. Even if you were anticipating it, tell us, who don't know that stuff as well, that that it was a challenge. Right? They absolutely.

09:34.95
Bridget Willard
Right? I mean that's what This Old House has been doing for 40 years. So like if they're Norm Abram and Bob Villa and whoever the new guy is. I just found they have a channel on Roku and I just started bingeing it.

09:51.24
Tess Wittler
Yeah.

09:53.40
Bridget Willard
Like I love This Old House. You're like oh no, this is happening The drain is bad and what are they going to do.

09:57.57
Tess Wittler
Well and This Old House is yeah. And This Old House, this a great analogy, because they also have that whole piece that whole segment where they kind of talk about and a solution right? I Love that piece as well. So of course you have This Old House.

10:09.16
Bridget Willard
Um, yes.

10:16.43
Tess Wittler
But then you also have the piece where they're back at the shop and they're talking about either a newer product that's on the market or just a common solution that people haven't really dived in dive dove into. And that also you know those questions, those burning questions, that consumers have are also great pieces.

10:24.33
Bridget Willard
Right.

10:33.25
Bridget Willard
Oh for sure because it can be part of the project portfolio and it and it can also be a blog article. But it could also be, for example, one of the episodes I was watching they wanted the open beam ceiling. Okay and this is in Concord, New Hampshire. So guess what? It's cold and it's hot.

10:34.13
Tess Wittler
For content right.

10:52.50
Bridget Willard
So you in the winter you can't have ah an exposed beam ceiling and not have um you know heat. So they decide to do a radiant of radiant. Um, ah what? What is it called?

10:59.88
Tess Wittler
Ahead.

11:07.51
Tess Wittler
Yeah, radiant heating in this in the ceiling area right? Okay, yeah, yeah, more.

11:11.81
Bridget Willard
No, they actually did it on the baseboards. Um, but and but in the but in the master bath they did it in the tiles in the flooring. So then that means they needed a bigger capacity for their um actual ah heating equipment and their water tanks in the basement. So like.

11:18.50
Tess Wittler
And.

11:26.95
Tess Wittler
Listen.

11:31.43
Bridget Willard
These are the things that's like oh well I want exposed beams you know like what Creative Woodworking Vermont does. Right? I want those exposed beams but I need heat because I live in the northeast or I live in Dallas and it snows or I live in Reno, Nevada. Right?

11:46.14
Tess Wittler
Right.

11:47.91
Bridget Willard
So, like what is what are those solutions? And that's part of the blogging that I think a lot of small businesses don't get, is you are educating the customer. They don't know that they have those choices unless you are educating them. I mean maybe they saw that episode, but you know they might be thinking Oh man I really like exposed ceilings but what do you do about the ductwork?

12:09.58
Tess Wittler
Right? Yeah, cause I don't want the ductwork to be exposed. And those are great pieces for you know, showing your expertise. Um, you know the other thing that's really coming up a lot in my world is smart home technology.

12:24.49
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah.

12:27.49
Tess Wittler
So smart home technology in the bathroom, for instance, and it's not so much that consumers don't understand that smart home technology isn't available anymore. But now, now contractors are running into issues with compatibility issues. So you know.

12:40.84
Bridget Willard
Yes.

12:45.43
Tess Wittler
So, you know, consumers want it to be, want it to be smart and they want it to do all the things. But they don't want to have to download 5 different apps to make each thing work. It's like oh okay, well this app is only for my lights and this lap is only for my shower and this app is only for my radiant floor heat. They want it all to synchronize.

12:50.16
Bridget Willard
Right.

13:03.36
Tess Wittler
So that's another big challenge that contractors are, are working with now is do they do it themselves or do they hire a smart home technology manager to do those things for them? And that's great pieces of content. And here you know you and I focus on on writing.

13:12.34
Bridget Willard
In.

13:20.25
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

13:22.34
Tess Wittler
I Especially focus on writing but podcasts as long as you have a transcript afterwards is is a great way. Video is another big thing that a lot of people in my audience want to tap into.

13:25.70
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yes.

13:35.70
Tess Wittler
Video is outstanding, you know, obviously. But you still need to make sure that you're adding that to your website and adding a description of what the video is on your website with a link to YouTube or however, you want to do it, you know. Work with your web developer to figure out the best way because video is very laggy but um.

13:48.70
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

13:53.80
Tess Wittler
You know? so but you always need that word piece because that's still how people are finding you. Right.

13:58.94
Bridget Willard
Well, the internet's blind. And I'll tell you my friend just bought a house last June and she you know went with you know it was in a you know home development new house and they used whatever alarm system, okay? And now she's like well dang I really kind of wanted Hey Google. And it's not compatible. That's a real thing because you're not thinking that. You have to make so many choices when it's a new or you're remodeling a home There's like from the fixtures to the technology to the upgrades that it becomes decision fatigue. It's so overwhelming.

14:18.94
Tess Wittler
Yep.

14:38.29
Bridget Willard
You know. In some ways, it's almost better to just walk into a home and be like okay, whatever it is I'm just here. But that's not why we buy homes right? That's not why we remodel homes so it's that education piece. And you touched on something that I think is really important, Tess, a lot of.

14:42.99
Tess Wittler
Yeah.

14:55.70
Bridget Willard
Ah, contractors especially or people in the service-based industry. One of the reasons why they're in that industry is because they're doers. They're not necessarily readers and writers. And, a lot of times, Um, they have Dyslexia or they're Neurodivergent. And so sitting down and writing a blog article is not going to happen. Ever ever ever. So video is perfect. You grab your Samsung Galaxy or your iPhone and you go, "Hey, this is Bob. I'm just, just installed Google Home Manager for our new client and they are super happy because now they only have one app that controls all their devices from their lights to their dishwasher to their refrigerator to the washing machine to the alarm." And, and then you, you have your office staff send it to a transcription service. And put it on the internet. You know? But like I, I do want to talk about what you do because that's you come in where it's like or my understanding is you're that external marketing team -- a lot like I am -- but you specialize with home remodelers and design-build.

15:54.65
Tess Wittler
Yep.

16:12.66
Bridget Willard
Which is totally different. You know, I was with the design-build commercial contractor. So that's like elite. So like what do you tell people? like how do they? Okay, they don't have time for this crap. How what is the best way?

16:25.85
Tess Wittler
No.

16:30.20
Bridget Willard
Because you can't write for all of the contractors. You don't even have time. But but how do you advise our listeners? How do you advise them to find someone like you if not you to work with?

16:43.87
Tess Wittler
Wow. Um, you know so I would say you know honestly if you are a remodeler or a contractor and you and you are listening to this just reach out to me. I'll connect you with some of my other friends who do what I do. Um I would say that's probably your first bet is.

16:58.80
Bridget Willard
Nice.

17:03.35
Tess Wittler
That whole referral piece, right? Bridget, I know you do that as well. Um, you know, we have a great referral network. Um I would say the other thing is is that sometimes you know you can. There's a lot of ways you can navigate content where you don't necessarily have to do it all.

17:04.32
Bridget Willard
Um.

17:21.38
Tess Wittler
But you could give ah you could give them a good step. Like one thing I'm thinking about, as an example, and this applies to all small businesses, you talked about the video, you know, piece where you grab your Samsung or you grab your iPhone and you shoot a quick video. But another piece is to use that recording feature on your phone and just start talking about a topic. And then use a transcription service like Otter.ai or something that's fairly inexpensive and transcribe it. And then you have your basis for an article.

17:39.40
Bridget Willard
Oh.

17:51.51
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah.

17:54.73
Tess Wittler
Or, you know ,your blog posts. Or if you happen to have someone on your team, if you have a big enough team, who is interested in marketing and flushing out those topics. You can give the recording to him or her, and they can you know run with it. There's a lot of ways to navigate that piece. I'm not sure that answers your question not, bridget. But I know you and I have over the years have come up with some quote unquote shortcuts for navigating this content piece.

18:19.24
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, start with someone you do know and they can always refer you. So what about the Done For You Newsletter Program you have? Can you talk a little bit about how that's important with content marketing?

18:35.70
Tess Wittler
Oh yeah, sure. Thank you. So my Done For You Newsletter Program is specifically for um I would say designers, remodeers, and custom home builders who want content specifically on kitchens and baths.

18:49.72
Bridget Willard
Who.

18:52.80
Tess Wittler
Sometimes I touch on laundry rooms or mudrooms, but mostly it's kitchen and bath topics. And it's done six times a year so and it's a newsletter program. So I provide all of the content. It's shared content that goes out to all the subscribers in the program. And then you can lay it out into your newsletter program like Mailchimp, Constant Contact. Or, you can hire me -- and I can for a little bit extra -- and I'll lay it out in your newsletter. And it goes out six times a year to your subscribers.

19:20.71
Bridget Willard
Oh.

19:27.39
Tess Wittler
What I found with this program is especially with um my so my target audience is they really want to be able to do marketing and do marketing well, but they don't have the time. So I provide that content for them that then they can stay in touch with their subscribers in their audience through their email newsletter program.

19:47.62
Bridget Willard
Okay I know we're hitting our our our mark but I want to ask you. Like so when you're doing this with with your people and they're like yes I want to do the Done For You Newsletter, what is your recommendation for that lead magnet to get people to subscribe to them? Or do they already have that in existence?

20:08.15
Tess Wittler
You know, I'm going to be completely honest with you. Most of them already have a subscriber list and I walk them through the process of how to ensure that we're doing it all legally as far as you know adding their previous customers and their prospects. And I have a whole process that I go through to make sure that you know we're not doing anything against CAN-SPAM Act. But um and the other piece that I love about with lead magnets is we can do like a kitchen remodeling checklist or a bathroom remodeling checklist. It's a one pager.

20:28.10
Bridget Willard
Awesome. Perfect.

20:44.45
Tess Wittler
Great um, with some of my other subscribers I've done a series of articles that then we've turned into an ebook or a guide. So um, like you know how to remodel your kitchen or you know the, the 5 steps you need to um for building your custom home: steps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

20:50.27
Bridget Willard
Oh.

21:04.24
Tess Wittler
Those are each blog articles then we throw it into an ebook and then that becomes their downloadable. So, I work with each of them on a very customized basis depending upon what they have already in their content inventory or what we could possibly create to help them.

21:16.58
Bridget Willard
Perfect. Perfect. I Love that. It's so. I, I just love this idea. I, I think this wonderful. Um I, I often think about hiring somebody to my newsletter because the more I know, the more I know I don't know. But really thank you for your time. How do people get in contact with you, Tess, and your services?

21:40.99
Tess Wittler
Sure the easiest way is to go to my website which is http://tesswitler.com -- and I'm sure Bridget will put that in the show notes. But and then from there, there's all kinds of other ways that you can connect with me through, you know, social media or um through, you know, email directly.

21:59.35
Bridget Willard
Awesome! Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Tess.

22:00.19
Tess Wittler
Thank you, Bridget.

How do you start writing if you keep staring at a blank page? Are you in your own way? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by marketer and coach Jen McFarland for an insightful conversation on why small businesses should put their audience first with their website content.

"You just have to get started." Jen McFarland

Follow Jen on Twitter

https://twitter.com/jensmcfarland

Jen's Blog Post on ClickFunnels

https://womenconquerbiz.com/clickfunnels-review-2022/

Take an Ephipahy Course and Stop Decision Fatigue

https://epiphanycourses.com/

00:19.23
Bridget Willard
Hey hey thanks for joining me on this latest episode. I'm here with the Jen Mcfarland. Welcome! I am doing fabulous.

00:26.61
Jen McFarland
Hey hey how are you doing, Bridget? How you doing listeners?

00:33.64
Bridget Willard
And so we're we're talking to our small business owners. You and I have worked with a lot of clients and what's like so something that you kind of wish I feel like you wish they had an epiphany about?

00:49.16
Jen McFarland
Ah I feel like all of us as consultants give our clients small epiphanies every single day and that's one of the reasons why I started a new business called Epiphany Courses -- because it's our job as consultants to do that. But then there are people who can't afford us as. Consultants. So Why not give them little epiphanies? And that's my new business called EpiphanyCourses. They are courses based on business decisions, so in in an hour or less, you can make some exceptional business decisions on things that often confuse a lot of people. Like I am a total tech Nerd. We've just spent the last.

01:25.62
Bridget Willard
Um.

01:26.80
Jen McFarland
What hour talking about all of our tech nerdiness? And so a lot of things that I am passionate about people get really confused about. And so that's kind of my focus whether it's on my podcast or my website or now with courses is to just help people untangle the techie bits that seem to really keep them from taking action on things.

01:47.95
Bridget Willard
Yeah, um, with the Launch With Words starter pack the whole point of it is that it gets imported as a blog draft and so they know how to use the Draft Folder in WordPress. So just write. You know? A lot of people wanted it to be complicated, like a course, I'm like no -- small business owners don't have time for this crap. They just need to get in there write a blog post.

02:11.56
Jen McFarland
Yeah, and well what I love about what it is that you've done is it's like you're giving them drafts and you're giving them prompts. Like so many people hate the blank page and I'm one of them. And I've actually sometimes hired people just to help me keep the blank page from staring back at me. And when I see somebody else start it then I'm like oh okay now I got this. Now I can do this because I love to write; I hate the blank page. And that's what is so powerful about Launch With Words, I think, in the people that I work with they're like: I don't even know how to get started. So now I can be like well actually here's the thing.

02:45.69
Bridget Willard
Yeah, the blank page is anxiety's best friend and in small business owners. We sometimes forget that we have so much to talk about and I suffer from the same thing. I would just open Google Docs and and go oh this person keeps asking me this question. That's my next blog post. This is my next blog post. This is my next blog post. Or even brainstorming with friends. You know? Um, but I always recommend that small business owners have some kind of journal or something where they collect those things all in one spot so that when they sit down on Friday afternoon to write their blog posts.

03:08.81
Jen McFarland
Yeah, yeah.

03:24.23
Bridget Willard
for the month or the week -- depending upon how often they want to publish --they'll just have that those headlines. But I know there are other tools and methods. For example, you're doing a lot of podcasting, which can be transcribed into words on your website. So like how is somebody start with.. Do you like do you think that it would be easier for some people and their personality types to start with making videos?

03:50.55
Jen McFarland
You know it's interesting when I work with people I tell them? Okay, This is so easy. You can start with a notebook -- just a little piece of paper next to your desk and you can start taking notes and if they look at me and they're like I don't know. I'm like okay. Or you can start talking on video, you're doing videos to your group or you're doing all different kinds of things and then we just transcribe it and put that on your website. And they're like okay or they get even more freaked out, you know? And the point is I'm like -- look figure out the thing that you like to do and do that.

04:25.20
Bridget Willard
Yes.

04:29.12
Jen McFarland
And that's all that needs to happen. Like I used to make Facebook Lives and then I'd be like, "I went live!" And I'd always said it to like "only me." Only me -- like I would practice. I practiced for years just doing it the first time with nobody, no risk, and then doing it the next time to everybody and.

04:43.19
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

04:48.65
Jen McFarland
It it just you just have to get started.

04:49.83
Bridget Willard
Yeah, getting started is tough because of our inner critic. Um, some people don't like the way they look, or they don't like the sound of their voice, or, or, or, or. Um and the thing is they I think a lot of us think that we're gonna be criticized. But it's our business. So what I encourage people to do is to tap into their passion like what is it they wish -- like one of the prompts is what is that you wish people knew about your industry? What is a common misconception? Like I'll never forget my neighbor when I lived in in Dana Point. I lived at the top of the stairs and she would see me I mean she would walk by my front window by my desk when she um when she went upstairs and she she asked me one day -- she said, "Bridget what exactly are you doing when you're sitting at your computer all day?" And I finally just said, "I put words on the internet."

05:44.18
Jen McFarland
Exactly. It's like how I talk to my relatives were like I have no idea what you do and I'm like that's fair and I explain it. And I'm like oh or yeah I just help people be on the internet and they're like okay.

05:55.40
Bridget Willard
Yeah, and then if they have more questions. Right? So it's like I know when I was working in construction, there were so many things that we wanted people to understand. You know? ah that you know. If you have a crack in a concrete panel, it's not cosmetic. It's going through all 6", you know? There's always something in your industry that you wish somebody would understand. When I was working in a travel agency. They're like travel agents are still relevant? Travel agents are not paid by the person booking the travel. They're paid.

06:15.82
Jen McFarland
Right.

06:31.37
Bridget Willard
From the wholesaler. They're um, they're paid from the travel. And that there are deals you can get with the travel agents that aren't even available to the general public because they're literally wholesalers. So. Unless you. Yes unless you tell them! and that's the whole thing.

06:31.85
Jen McFarland
Right.

06:41.74
Jen McFarland
Exactly and people don't know that unless you tell them? ah.

06:50.49
Bridget Willard
It's like do something and like to me I'm like almost channel that rage. I I was talking to somebody and they're like all into Thenagram or anagram or what what aneogram and um I was like I think I'm a 5 or an 8

07:02.45
Jen McFarland
Enneagram yeah.

07:09.27
Bridget Willard
So I decided to take the $20 test last night. and I'm I'm not any of those. I'm a 4 or something like that. No I'm my 6. I'm a six. I'm a 6. I don't know what? No I'm a 6. I think I don't know I can't remember but I'm know I'm one of the ones that's fueled by fear.

07:17.24
Jen McFarland
I'm a 3

07:28.32
Bridget Willard
Think it's a 6 but all these numbers could you just give it a name like at least I know ISTJ but like what enneagram people need to you know, come up with a name for each number. I know and I as a math person but you know, but but it was like it's all fueled by fear.

07:38.14
Jen McFarland
And make it easy.

07:45.87
Jen McFarland
Yeah.

07:47.40
Bridget Willard
Like my all my motivations are fueled by fear. And then I'm pretty heavy in like 8 and 9 or something that are like really into anger and anger comes from fear. So obviously there's a lot of fear going on. And that self-awareness you know, it's just like oh I kind of didn't realize that about myself. But I've you always used that to fuel you know people see it as passionate. That I see it as I don't want to be homeless. So ah, what keeps you going, Bridget on a daily basis? Fear. Just fear. Fear what being homeless. Like what do you want.

08:21.13
Jen McFarland
Fear absolute fear the fear.

08:26.00
Bridget Willard
When you when you start your own business right? You have to it's on you to educate people about what you do.

08:33.22
Jen McFarland
Right? So so a couple things. One: just to go back to something that you said earlier about everybody watching you. Think of it as the gym. When you are sweating it out at the gym, are you looking at the person next to you and and judging them? No, you're sweating it out. You're thinking about your own stuff.

08:46.91
Bridget Willard
Now.

08:52.31
Jen McFarland
It's the same thing about your business. You're educating people. They're not judging you. They're truly interested if they're watching it. And then about the fear: I totally understand that and feel that because when I left my job and, you know, it was super emotional and I start I had not I was not really ready to have a business yet. I was kind of playing around with side projects and stuff. I still remember when I was like the end of this job was there I was like staring me in the face; I had to leave. And I looked up at my husband and I said look I'm not going to let us be homeless. You know? That fear was really there. And I think in the Enneagram I'm whichever one is like achieve! You know? Achieve, achieve! You know? I'm like I'm like Parks And Rec. You know, I'm I'm like let's go! I'm Leslie Knope. I've got like the the notebooks with things and we need to go do it! And you know.

09:28.20
Bridget Willard
Okay.

09:34.40
Bridget Willard
Ah, Leslie Knope.

09:42.15
Bridget Willard
But yeah.

09:44.66
Jen McFarland
Everybody has that whatever it is that that drives them. And the thing about not if you don't talk about what you're passionate about then nobody really knows what side of what side of the field you're playing on. If nobody knows that you can fix that crack in your foundation.

09:56.28
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

10:03.15
Jen McFarland
Then they're not going to come to you for that. You know? I talk about things that I'm passionate about. And I whenever I do it I think of it as being super high risk but it's always had some sort of payoff. You know? And I have a hard time getting my clients to do that. Even though when they see it

10:03.24
Bridget Willard
Right.

10:22.70
Jen McFarland
paying off for other people. They're like I want that. And it's like well if you want that then you have to go after it and you have to take a stand.

10:26.61
Bridget Willard
How did they find that though? How did they find what they're really passionate about? Because there's you know. I mean, I know what I think. I know what I think, but I want to know what you think. Like how do you get that person who says -- well I don't know what I'm passionate about -- how do you get that out of them? How do you extract that? Or how do they extract it from themselves?

10:46.91
Jen McFarland
You know it's interesting because I don't consider myself a coach. A lot of people lately have been calling me like a marketing coach. And I think it's because I love listening to people and I will just repeat back to them. I'll be like well what I'm hearing you say is. You know you do this and they're like well yeah. And I'm like and do you love doing this? And they're like well yeah. And I'm like well write about that. Make videos about that. Tell people about it because if you're not then they just don't know. And it took me a long time in my own journey to really realize that. Like I feel like there's always a risk when you say something controversial. Like I wrote this blog post about ClickFunnels. Like and I said it's good for some people but I just don't really think it's good for small businesses because it's really expensive and there's so many other ways that you can do it that are free, cheap and easier.

11:40.96
Bridget Willard
Ah, ah.

11:43.20
Jen McFarland
And don't break all the time. So so I wrote this like long and it was really just a post for myself. Honestly, it was me like I'm taking a stand. I've cleaned up so many ClickFunnel's messes because a lot of people I work with don't have the money for it and on and on. And I wrote like this 2,000 word blog post about it. And then I SEO'd it because I was like well I might as well see if I can get this to show up in search. And then I forgot about it. It was like last May and then -- I was telling you before the show -- I was interviewed for a documentary because of that blog post and it's crazy.

12:16.84
Bridget Willard
Wow.

12:20.64
Jen McFarland
Like I'll admit when they sent me the message in Linkedin, I was like is this for real? Bike who is this? But and then I was and and so I'm researching the guy because I'm like a big time researcher and I'm like well it might be for real and I was like okay well I'll meet with you and then you know we're talking on Zoom and I'm like oh dang this is for real.

12:23.62
Bridget Willard
Ah.

12:40.45
Jen McFarland
And they're like when do you want to meet? And I was like well I don't know. I have this that and the other thing going on. And they're like um how about in two days? And I was like holy cannoli! And I had like a film crew -- some guy who had like won an Emmy who lives in Portland (I'm in Portland, Oregon) -- who like came and filmed and I was just like.

12:54.68
Bridget Willard
Whoa. Ah.

12:57.91
Jen McFarland
I can't believe this is happening because of a cheeky post I wrote about ClickFunnels a year ago. And that's why you take a stand. That's why you talk about the things like if you are cleaning up messes over and over and over again. If you know about a product that's on the market that everybody's talking about. Like my example is about something super niche that like a lot of people don't know about unless you've been marketed to about it. But there is something in every so stinking industry out there that is used by everybody or talked about by everybody. Like to talk about construction, you know, Hardie® Plank

13:25.77
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

13:34.21
Bridget Willard
Yep.

13:34.67
Jen McFarland
Siding is talked about here all the time. Well fast forward to when I had a REALTOR®. She's like yeah it doesn't really do good in all this rain we have here. So maybe don't get that. And I'm like but everybody says. And she's like it doesn't matter so like why can't somebody be talking about that here?

13:42.14
Bridget Willard
Yep.

13:49.61
Bridget Willard
Yeah I mean I would if I were doing siding that wasn't Hardie® Plank, right? I mean, or or a mold remediation company, or even a REALTOR®. And and so -- to use my active listening skills -- what I hear you saying is, take a stand.

14:06.68
Jen McFarland
Yeah, and then -- to use my active listening skills -- say it loud. Get loud about it. I mean that's that's what you were saying over the course of the weekend. You were talking about it and you know how it doesn't have to be this whole big thing.

14:10.21
Bridget Willard
(singsongy) Loud loud, get loud, get loud, get loud, get loud.

14:24.88
Jen McFarland
Like if you research ClickFunnels, until you get to my post -- which is probably like number 10 at this point or 7 on like reviews of ClickFunnels -- everyone is saying how lovely it is. And then you get to this one person who's like -- well actually I give it 2 stars because it's not good for small businesses and that's my post. So.

14:34.40
Bridget Willard
Yeah, okay.

14:43.97
Jen McFarland
You know I said it loud .I shared the heck out of it when I first came out and and that's what you have to do. It's not even about the SEO necessarily. It's about the fact that I really talked about something. And it was long and and it made a lot of sense. It doesn't have to be long.

14:44.85
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

15:01.99
Jen McFarland
It doesn't even have to be a blog post. It could be a video and the transcript would would drive people there. It's really just about sharing what you care about in a way that helps people. And I wrote that because I was tired of cleaning up messes. And I thought even if I have like one client or former client who reads this,

15:04.47
Bridget Willard
Like.

15:19.13
Jen McFarland
and thinks twice, then I've done my job.

15:19.66
Bridget Willard
Well by advocating for your current, past, or future customer -- and taking that stand -- you are actually promoting yourself as an expert.

15:33.18
Jen McFarland
Yeah.

15:34.73
Bridget Willard
And you're saying, look -- all these shysters are saying this, I'm telling you the real deal.

15:38.90
Jen McFarland
And that was exactly why they asked me to be in that documentary. They're following all of these high flyers around and then they're interviewing me in my basement. And I'm like well, actually a sales funnel is really just word-of-mouth and how you get people to be your customers. Everybody has a sales funnel. And they're like,

15:54.95
Bridget Willard
Right.

15:58.10
Jen McFarland
Oh wow! You know? I was like brought in literally -- they said -- "to be the voice of reason." And it's because they gathered that from that blog post. And without even knowing it, that's actually what I do in terms of marketing. When I talk to people, and they're my clients, it's about like

16:16.30
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

16:16.26
Jen McFarland
what makes sense? This doesn't make any sense. What you're telling me and you're not even taking any action. You don't have any, you don't even have a website because you're so freaked out about it. What's it going to take? What's it going to take? How can we get you there so that you can feel good about it or it's just good enough?

16:26.41
Bridget Willard
Yep.

16:34.81
Jen McFarland
Like I work with a lot of people and I'm like let's get you to that good enough website. You know, so that it has accurate information on it and you can start to feel comfortable enough to add things to it.

16:43.33
Bridget Willard
Yeah I mean if if they're kind of hesitant to publishing on their WordPress, Webflow, Wix, Squarespace site, then maybe writing in Microsoft Word or Google Docs is the first step.

16:59.13
Jen McFarland
Right? Oh I Tell people that. Yeah, I tell people that all the time. Yeah.

17:00.94
Bridget Willard
Or voice typing in them. Google Docs has native voice typing. You have to pretend you're a secretary. Ah you have to pretend you're dictating to a secretary though. "Comma, da, da, da da. Next paragraph."

17:14.31
Jen McFarland
I know and that's so hard. That's why it doesn't work for me. It comes out as like, you know, this. I don't know, just ocean of consciousness. You know I you know it is so funny. And I guess that this is probably also the part where I say I'm a recovering English Major. So I come at the written word you know, just by my own nature because I was an English major. Like that's what my Bachelors degree is in and so I love to write. You know, I'm listening to your show before this interview, and everybody's saying you don't you don't even have to write much people don't read.

17:48.57
Bridget Willard
I Know yeah.

17:50.12
Jen McFarland
They don't read blogs anymore and I'm like I do! So there are still people who do and it's really just about getting your content up there. And whatever it's going to take. I mean, I think the Launch With Words product is great because a lot of people need that. Oh, it's, you know, it's June 1st. And I know that I have a prompt and they're waiting for me. And whatever it takes for you to go from knowing there's a prompt to like not doing it, to knowing there's a prompt and then taking action on it. I mean that's that's what that's what needs to happen. And like having that tool is I think very powerful for people to get them started.

18:26.83
Bridget Willard
Yeah, and thank you. I mean, of course, and also thank you. But I mean I I also see as I ask people actual my actual friends that I kind of had in mind when I built this or had it built is is that decision making process. So I know we might go a tiny bit over the time, but I really want you to talk about your Epiphany Course because in the preshow, I was like yes! If you are like just starting your business or struggling in your business, I feel like this is the tool before you start anything. Can you tell them? Can you tell us about your course?

19:05.21
Jen McFarland
Yeah, so what Epiphany Courses is they are filler-free, online business courses. So there's no extraneous bonuses. These are not 16-hour courses. It's helping you make decisions in an hour or less. So if you have a question about how do I find marketing tools for my small business?

19:24.85
Jen McFarland
In an hour or less, there's ah, a system that I use that is very easy for business owners to go through and say oh okay, this is what I need. You know what kind of web platform do I need? You know, all of these questions that we get over and over and over again as marketing consultants. My business partner's a finance consultant. We just see all of this misinformation out online. And we wanted a place where we could have low-cost, quick courses, so that people could be like -- oh you know I do this that and the other thing I should really have a Shopify website. Or I should have a WordPress website you know, whatever it is. Help people make those decisions without having to go through all the blogs and without having to go through social media -- which is my least favorite thing by the way. "Hey guys. Um, so what email marketing program do you use?" And then it's like 7000 responses. And they have no idea what you're talking about, what your business is about or anything.

20:09.80
Bridget Willard
Ah.

20:15.48
Bridget Willard
Ah, it's engagement bait. It's engagement bait.

20:15.61
Jen McFarland
And I'm like -- that needs to stop. Ah so I just hate that. No no these are like business owners these are in like small business platforms. Sometimes as people I know and I'm like girl don't ask. Ah.

20:29.33
Bridget Willard
I told you like 10 hours ago but it's.

20:35.21
Jen McFarland
Ah, so that's that's fundamentally what Epiphany Courses is. Auick courses. Not a lot of ah crummy, BS bonuses that don't make any sense. Just get in and get out because business owners don't have time. For if I gave you a 16 hour course would you ever take it no matter how good it is? like would you ever go through it all? You wouldn't. And a lot of courses are trying to to sell you on a concept that you may not even need. So these courses are before that happens. Do I even need it?

20:54.48
Bridget Willard
Probably not.

21:02.82
Bridget Willard
Right.

21:07.31
Jen McFarland
And that's that's the thing we don't go into it thinking that you need XYZ we go into it with what's the information we can give you so you can decide for yourself.

21:14.26
Bridget Willard
And how do people find out about that course or those courses all right? So your biggest challenge is spelling Epiphany and I will make sure that I spell check it in the show notes. Jen, this has have been amazing.

21:20.59
Jen McFarland
http://epiphanycourses.com

21:29.89
Jen McFarland
Thank you so much for having me This is great.

21:33.32
Bridget Willard
Oh my gosh I'm so excited. Thank you guys! Going to the outro.

21:45.24
Bridget Willard
What the heck? User error. Go machine.

How much does SEO matter to a small business? How complicated is coming up with blogging topics? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by writer Kitty Webb for an insightful conversation on why small businesses should put their audience first with their website content.

"Always think about your customer first." Kitty Webb

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

00:22 But first, a word from our sponsor.

Zencastr.

I use Zencastr because it takes the headache out of producing podcasts. Who has time to edit in Garage Band all day long?

Zencastr is an all-in-one podcast production suite that gives you studio quality audio and video without needing all the technical know-how.

It records each guest locally, then uploads crystal clear audio tracks right into the dashboard so you have high-quality raw materials to work with. And then they run the production -- and TRANSCRIPTS.

With my promotional code, Zencaster will give you 30% off for 3 months
of their professional plan (the one I use).

Plus, the hobbyist accounts are always free.

So, what have you got to lose? You only have time to gain.

zen.ai/launchwithwords0

The Promo Code is LaunchWithWords0

That's Launch With Words 0 no spaces.

02:23.25
Bridget Willard
Hey hey it's season 2 episode 5 with Kitty Webb Webb -- one of my favorite people on the planet: SEO, writer, dancer. All the things.

02:34.62
Kitty Webb
All the things.

02:39.90
Bridget Willard
So We're talking to small business owners, Kitty Webb, and like to me everything I know about you makes SEO so easy like it's not really that hard. Like what are some of your like top-of-mind tips to small business owners who are writing their own content?

02:58.29
Kitty Webb
Well first of all, you're not writing for Google you're writing for people. Google is a tool that is trying to connect actual human beings with the information that they want to find and it gets better and better at that as time goes on so you see a lot of these trends in SEO. And everybody's talking about things like keyword density and neural networks and now they're like looking at different keyword categories and you look at Wikipedia and then you look at the subcategories in the Wikipedia category to make sure that you have your internal linking. None of that is necessary because all of that has to do with Google trying to find ways to connect actual human beings with the answers that they want. And it gets better and better and if that's what you're focused on then you really don't have to worry about all those complexities of SEO. Um, honestly, that really only comes into play when you're in the corporate SEO category and it's hyper-competitive and you're competing against Walmart or Petco or something like that, you know, which I've done. And that's a different ball game. But if you are you know a roofing company a contractor, a dentist. Um Google's not going to put you up against dentistry.com. I assume that's a thing. Ah, it's.

04:05.44
Bridget Willard
It should be.

04:09.51
Kitty Webb
It probably is and if it's not I'm sure the domain is like a hundred thousand dollars

04:11.38
Bridget Willard
Right? I mean that's the thing is we hear about these giant eCommerce stores and then we think we had to compete with that. We don't even have to compete with that. We just have to compete with ourselves and our other small businesses.

04:26.14
Kitty Webb
And the truth is that SEO is such a small part of small business strategy at this point. My corporate job right now, Um I'm building their SEO strategy just knowing that that's not how people find us. Nobody is Googling what we do because they're at a different phase. And maybe that's really the key where to start with SEO is understanding how people are finding you and what they want from you. Um, because if they don't know that you exist they're not looking for you yet.

04:47.97
Bridget Willard
Yeah. Yes, I mean your industry, especially if your your industry is like not really known to them. I always talk to people and they go, "what I didn't know that was a choice?" So of course I wouldn't be looking for a laser vacuum.

05:05.33
Kitty Webb
Hear that.

05:11.58
Bridget Willard
You know, but my friend saw it on Tiktok and then she bought it and I saw it and you can't unsee the dust that you regular vacuum. You cannot unsee that. But I didn't know it existed. So I would never type in "laser vacuum."

05:17.44
Kitty Webb
Um, yeah, true sorry.

05:24.23
Kitty Webb
Yeah I mean I've been in content marketing since before it was called content marketing. And way back in the day when I was starting my career, people weren't looking for that because they didn't know they needed it. But they did know they had a problem. And the key to connecting with them was understanding what they were looking for.

05:28.50
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah.

05:41.69
Kitty Webb
They weren't looking for a content marketer. They weren't looking for SEO they had never heard of it. What they were looking for was "my website sucks, how do I fix it?" And that's kind of the key is understanding why does somebody want to find me? do they want to find me? So I want them to find me, right?

05:50.25
Bridget Willard
Aha yeah.

06:01.40
Kitty Webb
And the things that I know are great about me and or my selling points are not necessarily the things that attract people in the first place. If you're doing inbound marketing, you're you're putting out the fishing net. You're saying this is the bait that the fish like and then once they're i --n once they're in my tank, in my net -- then I can talk to them about these other things.

06:16.71
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

06:19.33
Kitty Webb
Show them this beautiful wide world of a lovely aquarium that they didn't even know existed that they want to live in.

06:23.72
Bridget Willard
Right? Yeah, and so when they're saying my website sucks. What do you think that they are fixating on these small businesses? Yeah.

06:34.91
Kitty Webb
I think the trick there is that they don't know what the problem is. Right now where my boyfriend and I are are taking on some projects together. He's a web developer and I do all the other stuff that's not code and we're building websites for dancers and 1 of the dancers is building a entire language.

06:45.65
Bridget Willard
Cool.

06:54.55
Kitty Webb
Ah, like an actual physical language almost like sign language in dance and he wants to eventually register it with WHO as an official language. Um, but he wants to build this curriculum and and spread it out to the world. So he wants to reach people who want to learn how to dance and want it to be easier than the way that West Coast Swing is usually taught. It's a very complex dance. It's not like ballroom.

06:55.92
Bridget Willard
Oh cool.

07:13.30
Kitty Webb
It's not like put your feet here and then you're doing the dance. It's very much in the communication. So understanding how to teach that is something um that he needs to express. And it's brand new. Nobody is looking for this yet. Um, and then the other side of that is he wants people to teach it and teachers who are really frustrated and saying, you know,

07:27.22
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

07:32.72
Kitty Webb
"I'm losing a lot of students. I'm not getting people to stick around very long because this is very hard." It's an answer for them because this is the way that you can teach it and describe it in such a way that it does make sense on levels and to build a website for him. The first step was he was like I I have no idea where to start I don't know. How to get this in front of people? I don't have the budget to get this in front of people. And I think that I'm probably going to come up with some resistance because the people that really are my target have these ideas already and I'm telling them the things that you know about what you're doing are wrong and there's a lot of resistance. So the answer for him was.

08:05.40
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

08:11.40
Kitty Webb
What What are they frustrated about? And what they're frustrated about is I have new students and nobody sticks around. And then what the students are frustrated about is I Want to do this dance because it looks so cool, but it's too hard to get started. Like I feel like I'm never going to get there. And both of those are the same core Problem. So being able to talk to them on that level of Okay, what are the people looking for? What what his problem is is he saying I don't know what people want from me and most of the people I talk to say they don't want me but they really do. I can solve their problem and the trick is okay well your problem is that you don't know the language you need to convey this idea. You don't know what people are asking from you. You think they want this and they want that. So Let's translate that. Let's get deeper into who's going to come to your website and figure out why? Why do they need this. You know they need it. But why? what is that deeper thing? What's that emotional connection? And let's start there. Let's not start with we have a new curriculum. Let's start with hey your students are going to stick around longer if you learn how to do this.

09:10.57
Bridget Willard
Right? And with that emotional connection. How how much does regular blogging play into that?

09:18.27
Kitty Webb
For him, it's pretty vital and he's going to be doing a lot of vlogging. It's dance, right? And he is communicating through movement. So he's got to put his you know money where his mouth is he has to do videos and and create a lot of stuff on his own that shows people how this is working and demonstrates it so that they believe it.

09:25.90
Bridget Willard
Bye.

09:38.30
Kitty Webb
Because I can read this thing on a web page saying if you do this thing that I'm teaching you to do your students will stick around longer. But if I don't have a place where I can dig in and say okay, but how how does that work? I'm skeptical. I need enough information to come to this idea and be like okay this makes sense to me.

09:46.29
Bridget Willard
Um, my.

09:56.44
Kitty Webb
Now I Want to start digging into this system and that's where vlogging and blogging come in. Because they need somewhere where they can dig in and everybody has different questions.

10:01.87
Bridget Willard
Yeah I mean and with so many people that are neurodivergent as well. Vlogging is a very good um, kind of entry way into blogging. Just, you know, people that are really great talking. They just want to get the words out. They're salespeople. Or or they're moving like a dance. How do you translate something that's essentially movement into the words that we know Google wants and people? How do you, you know, bridge that accessibility issue?

10:36.39
Kitty Webb
It's interesting that you bring up neurodivergent because the person that we're building this website for is neurodivergent. He has the condition where he can't actually visualize things. He has no visualization system. He can be very literal and he can describe things but he cannot create pictures with his mind and he's a world champion dancer.

10:52.86
Bridget Willard
Wow.

10:54.58
Kitty Webb
So obviously he has some spatial awareness but this is an interesting neurodivergent thing that he's dealt with um so understanding his needs has been really key to being able to say okay, we're talking about movement. We're talking about dance. We're talking about art and expression and creativity and specifically communication. Through movement and through touch and to describe that in words gets a little tricky. His system, he's been working on it for a really long time; it's very clear. Um, but a lot of it is being very visual. And again getting back to not really thinking about what the product is or what the system is or what he knows.

11:17.56
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

11:33.59
Kitty Webb
But what do people want and what's the problem that they need to solve? And the deeper you go into it. Like we're we're doing learning content -- a lot of it is video-based -- but describing it and being able to break it down into the the simplest forms is really key.

11:34.64
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

11:48.98
Kitty Webb
It's almost like that Einstein idea of if you can't explain it to a three-year-old, you don't know it well enough. Yet so to create the content we've had to really get into it and know it forwards and backwards and do it. Um, we're learning the system too. We're dancing every day we're testing the concepts and then.

11:51.15
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

12:05.96
Kitty Webb
Talking about it afterwards. So to have somebody else describe you know this is what I'm feeling and this is what it seems like to me. Does this make sense to you? Has been really helpful in creating that kind of challenging content and I see this in other businesses too especially in tech businesses. Ah, my my main Gig is at a legal technology company. This is the one where people aren't searching for us because they don't know what they need. There's not even a name for the type of software that it is. Um and when they see it, they're like oh that solves this problem that I have but they have to see it first. And the big challenge for them is when they land on the homepage of the website.

12:26.45
Bridget Willard
Right.

12:39.50
Bridget Willard
Right.

12:40.54
Kitty Webb
Do they know what this is? And it's hard because if you do so many different things, I think. This software helps you efile. It helps you serve documents if you need to, like Subpoena somebody in another state. It'll go through all the different steps to find somebody to serve the subpoena for you and then it manages your billing and it does all of these little things but there's not a nice neat umbrella to put that under..

13:00.00
Bridget Willard
Right.

13:00.24
Kitty Webb
And there's not an easy way to describe that where it would make sense to somebody who's never heard of it or doesn't have the frame of reference to it. So The exercise there is again getting really deep and knowing it very well. nd then paying attention to the questions that people ask you. If you describe it to somebody else sitting in a room, what questions are they asking you? And write those down. Because those are the things you want to answer right away. Like those are the points of confusion and like oh I get it. Because of bla Bla Bla Bla. It's your words are the least important ones; their words are the most important points.

13:19.37
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah.

13:28.62
Bridget Willard
Yes, yes, and I've seen tech companies do this with their support tickets. They will publish it as a blog post I mean I know this one in the Netherlands That's what they do. It's ah you know it's a form and then once it submitted and the ant.

13:35.84
Kitty Webb
This.

13:48.60
Bridget Willard
Answer then it's like I don't know whatever he did made it automated so that the actual question is the headline. Then the question is answered. And that's the text of the blog post. So you get to use the the way people are asking and use your jargon to define the actual steps that are missing. I I find that that's really helpful when I write for clients. I just start typing in a question at Google and let Google auto fill. It.

14:16.55
Kitty Webb
A.

14:20.52
Bridget Willard
You know if I don't have access to their frequently asked questions or their pain points or points of confusion. But that is an excellent tip. I know for my Launch With Words pack and the book that it's based on I recommend that small businesses owners have a journal where they write these specific questions down. So that when they do write or hire a writer they will have that right there. These are the questions we need answered. and it is difficult when you're far away ah from the customer and you're not hearing those pain points.

14:56.18
Kitty Webb
That is million dollar advice right there is to like take literally the questions that people have asked you and answer them in those words on your website. What am I favorite absolutely that's the words that people are using and you can do SEO research all day long. But if nobody is targeting a keyword.

14:57.40
Bridget Willard
So yeah.

15:05.10
Bridget Willard
Because that's how people are going to ask them, right?

15:15.66
Kitty Webb
You don't know that people are typing it in necessarily plus SEO research is nuanced anyway. One of my favorite things to do is to go look at Reddit threads or type do a Google search and you type in url forum and you find question forums because but think about it when somebody has a question online.

15:18.18
Bridget Willard
Right.

15:33.99
Kitty Webb
First they Google it. And if they don't find the answer in Google going to a forum and typing your question and waiting for a stranger to answer you on the internet is a last resort and that is a hundred percent something they couldn't find the information for before. So now you are the person with that source of information. You're the credible source as opposed to the Yahoo answers which.

15:40.96
Bridget Willard
Right.

15:50.41
Bridget Willard
Right? ah.

15:53.73
Kitty Webb
Oh my gosh. And if you're the person that has the answer to that question and you know how they asked it, talk about SEO. Wow! That is your long-tail keyword.

15:59.97
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's that is something that's still on my whiteboard I started doing last year was answering questions in Quora exactly the way I did it and I used that as my video content then of course the transcript of has.

16:18.50
Kitty Webb
Um, yeah.

16:18.61
Bridget Willard
Those words. So but that is a great tip for small businesses if you're just wanting to find like people that are asking questions about dentistry or dance lessons or any of those things. They are going to be in there and that would include even ah local Facebook groups.

16:35.56
Kitty Webb
Um, absolutely.

16:37.35
Bridget Willard
Um, NextDoor which is usually a dumpster fire but I like I like Reddit as a choice. It's a really ugly platform. I don't use it very often, but that is like kind of ground 0 for a lot of these ah discussions.

16:54.70
Kitty Webb
Reddit is especially valuable if your audience is Gen x heavy because that is the group of internet citizens who will tend to hang out on Reddit and discuss ideas. Um for a clothing brand Reddit turned out to be really important for us.

16:57.41
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

17:12.39
Kitty Webb
It was a Bamboo premium t-shirt that only made sizes 3x and up. So if you go to like a vacation resort, you'll find those bamboo t-shirts but they were only being manufactured up to size 2x. Period. iterally nobody was manufacturing them any higher. So this guy said well I wear a 3 x.

17:13.76
Bridget Willard
Um, Wow yeah.

17:25.00
Bridget Willard
Wow.

17:31.20
Kitty Webb
I Like these. I'm going to start a company that just caters to these extended sizes. This is going to be our core sizing and then if we do regular sizing before that's going to be our extended sizing. And we thought like okay so you know fashion, bloggers, the body positive movement, all kinds of thing.

17:39.47
Bridget Willard
Right.

17:49.80
Bridget Willard
Wow.

17:50.39
Kitty Webb
No. Reddit. It turned out to be Reddit and all it was was guys on Reddit who were being like, "yo I'm a really big dude. I go to the gym, I chafe. I hate workout shirts. What can I get?" and somebody's like hey have you tried these bamboo shirts and then somebody else was like. Yo I'm a big dude I have to wear a t-shirt under my suit jacket I don't want to wear a long sleeve shirt but I don't want to wear something that shows my sweat. What I got? And he's like have you seen these bamboo t-shirts? And we found all of these threads where it was being mentioned and it was turned out to be one of the best sources for new customers.

18:11.82
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah, yeah.

18:21.24
Kitty Webb
Because it was people saying, "yo I'm frustrated about this. How do I fix this problem?" We started adding that kind of content to the website and it really helped with SEO because like like they're googling it before they went to Reddit.

18:26.36
Bridget Willard
Wow.

18:34.52
Bridget Willard
They're googling it before they go to Reddit. That's so smart I know that one of my peers is in the canna industry and that is a great place for sort of those more taboo industries when it comes to Facebook and Instagram it's a no, it's a no-go. So.

18:48.27
Kitty Webb
Is it.

18:51.60
Bridget Willard
That is a really good reminder that Reddit is still alive and popular and people use it and that it's a last resort so that that's great fodder for topics I love that no um, Amy Donohue um yeah yeah, she's um.

18:59.98
Kitty Webb
Are you talking about Shayda, by the way? Amy Donohue.

19:08.99
Bridget Willard
She's just doing great things in that and industry and yeah Shayda and her sisters are like doing great too obviously Toyabi. And but I'm just like you know that we forget that sometimes getting those topic ideas are very simple as simple as the customers asking us a question..

19:11.98
Kitty Webb
Are.

19:25.33
Kitty Webb
Um, yeah, and in highly regulated industries like cannabis like firearms a lot of the industries that I've worked that have been highly regulated. Mortgages. You you can't promote them the way that you can promote other things. You can't run Facebook ads about cannabis. you can't run Facebook ads a lot of supplements.

19:38.85
Bridget Willard
By. Right.

19:44.93
Kitty Webb
And if you're going to be heavily restricted in. You're advertising your content is that much more important. And understanding how people are going to find you so much more important than understanding where the sales process is.

19:56.91
Bridget Willard
Right.

19:58.95
Kitty Webb
Because the other big Gap I see in content all the time is like you can get people to your site but then are you giving them what they wanted to find when they get there? Are you answering their questions? Do they know who you are? Can they get a feel for you? Did they find what they care about even if it's not you know here's my sales funnel here's what people need to know before they make a purchase decision? That's great.

20:04.40
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

20:18.77
Kitty Webb
But is that what people want to know when they make a purchase decision in the Bamboo t-shirts. People really wanted to know who was behind that company and they wanted to know if there were like real human beings that actually cared about the causes and cared about the people because the Brand took a stance.

20:18.97
Bridget Willard
Right? right. Um.

20:37.83
Kitty Webb
Brand was like, "Yo. We are not extended sizes. We are calling this our normal and everything outside of this extended sizes. You're not an afterthought here." And that resonated with people. But they also wanted to know that it was real. Like okay, are you virtue signaling?

20:40.16
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

20:51.51
Bridget Willard
Oh yeah.

20:53.56
Kitty Webb
Or is this something you really care about? Because if I'm going to spend $40 on a t-shirt I want to make sure that that money is going to something that I want to support.

21:02.50
Bridget Willard
That's fair. Because that's almost like a hospitality isn't it? Yeah, so if you just bring some hospitality to your online presence, you'll have the customers there. You'll serve their needs. And then maybe they'll buy from you and tell their friends.

21:05.11
Kitty Webb
Very much.

21:16.68
Kitty Webb
Yeah, like it's software. It's really common to see like hey here are the people that actually built this and it makes a difference. It seems like fluff content but it really does make a difference. You'd be surprised how many times people go to about pages before they ever make a purchase decision.

21:21.75
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah, it's really that does surprise me actually. I always think they just don't matter. But I that. Glad you told me that because have a website to write. Ah oh my gosh, Kitty Webb, I could talk to you like all day long but we have reached the end. What one last thing you want to tell people or do you want them to go to a certain website to find you or?

21:40.60
Kitty Webb
Um.

21:53.42
Kitty Webb
Um I don't want to be found right now.

21:58.98
Bridget Willard
You seem kind of like you're chilling. You're loving your life. You're just kind of.

22:03.68
Kitty Webb
So but I'm about to move from Las Vegas to Kansas City so I am trying to not be found until after I get settled it in a new location cross country back to big. But though I think the parting thought is to always think about your customer first and it's.

22:07.38
Bridget Willard
Nice.

22:18.89
Kitty Webb
really hard to do when you're writing about yourself to not write about yourself and the perspective of the things you're proud of and you care about. Really stay in that mindset of what does this person care about? What why are they reading this website in the first place and am I serving them well?

22:26.90
Bridget Willard
Mm.

22:36.34
Kitty Webb
My needs are secondary if I meet their needs. They'll meet mine.

22:37.38
Bridget Willard
Yeah, wow, That's just that's it. That's the mic drop. Thanks Kitty Webb.

22:43.68
Kitty Webb
Um, thank you? um.

Why should your small business value writing as part of its marketing efforts? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by writer Robert Nissenbaum for an insightful conversation on why small businesses should consider writing as part of their SEO efforts.

Follow Robert Nissenbaum at @RNissenbaum on Twitter and check out his company website at tso.media.

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

00:22 But first, a word from our sponsor.

Zencastr.

I use Zencastr because it takes the headache out of producing podcasts. Who has time to edit in Garage Band all day long?

Zencastr is an all-in-one podcast production suite that gives you studio quality audio and video without needing all the technical know-how.

It records each guest locally, then uploads crystal clear audio tracks right into the dashboard so you have high-quality raw materials to work with. And then they run the production -- and TRANSCRIPTS.

With my promotional code, Zencaster will give you 30% off for 3 months
of their professional plan (the one I use).

Plus, the hobbyist accounts are always free.

So, what have you got to lose? You only have time to gain.

zen.ai/launchwithwords0

The Promo Code is LaunchWithWords0

That's Launch With Words 0 no spaces.

02:23.27
Bridget Willard
Hey, thanks everyone for turning in season 2 episode 4 with my friend, writer, SEO consultant, and kayaker Robert Nissenbaum. Welcome to the show, Robert. So um. It might be that you're muted. It happens. It happens. It happens. Yeah, ah hey it happens. Ah you know it. This is technology is not always easiest thing. But you know.

02:43.26
Robert Nissenbaum
Oh there we go I wasn't muted a few minutes ago. Ah.

02:58.25
Bridget Willard
We live with it. It's it's working for us remote working writing um. Hey can you tell a little bit about yourself and what what motivates you to the audience?

03:07.96
Robert Nissenbaum
Ah, from a writing perspective I've been writing for thirty some odd years. I've been published forever in some form or another. First real thought as to this being something I was good at was back in college. So would have been like 87 where I -- first week and on campus ended up reading something as like oh no and sent a quick letter to the editor to the yeah school newspaper was immediately asked to start writing for him and just kind of went from there.

03:41.50
Bridget Willard
Nice. So ah, you've been writing a lot for your clients and small businesses for you know, a lot a long enough amount of time that we probably shouldn't be telling people.

03:55.69
Robert Nissenbaum
Um.

03:59.60
Bridget Willard
But it's definitely longer than me and um, what do you think small business owners kind of miss when it comes to content on their website?

04:12.31
Robert Nissenbaum
They're not putting any on it. I mean I. I mean they're just missing it all together. Um.

04:20.43
Bridget Willard
Concisely put by Robert Nissenbaum. Thanks for watching everyone. No for real. Like because people talk to me a lot about Launch With Words and duplicate content. I'm like you know what's worse than duplicate content? No content. Waaka Waka Waka

04:22.54
Robert Nissenbaum
Are.

04:29.95
Robert Nissenbaum
Exactly so and I think they get worried about having saying the same things over and over again or having repeated sections on websites. Google doesn't necessarily penalize you for having the same content in multiple places as long as it's at all perfectly verbatim.

04:48.23
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

04:49.70
Robert Nissenbaum
Um, you know you're you're going to be more penalized for not having anything up there. Um I've done a few experiments with websites even mine I haven't read anything in 2 years and basically it just drops off the face of the earth if you don't um you know and even if it's not great content.

04:53.49
Bridget Willard
Exactly.

05:01.49
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

05:07.17
Robert Nissenbaum
Content alone added on a regular basis will improve ranking. So it really is that it's getting as much content out as you can or.

05:12.12
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

05:18.11
Bridget Willard
I Know even for my blog and I've been spending more time on this podcast and writing my Launch With Words blog posts that don't go on my website you know? And I'm my traffic is terrible right now and it.

05:32.27
Robert Nissenbaum
On.

05:35.37
Bridget Willard
That's exactly what happens. I have high quality articles but I haven't been giving that cadence. So like why is that important? Like can you so explain why it's an important raking factor?

05:46.30
Robert Nissenbaum
Yeah, so think about adding content as um and I like to look at this from like perspective of a you know leading scientist sort of thing. Um, if I'm the foremost leading expert in my field and I suddenly disappear off the face of the earth for 2 years. I don't write anything. I don't publish anything. I don't do anything. Um, do you know if I'm still an expert in what I do, I could be out in a hermit in the middle of the woods and haven't looked at a scientific book for those 2 years. You wouldn't know that I'm still doing research and everything else on the side. And as things change and, as you know, data changes and we get new information out there. You have to keep up with this stuff and if there's no indication that you're keeping up with what you're doing, you're going to fall off rankings. Because everything is about credibility and authority and if you're not writing, if you're not putting out information, and and not demonstrating that, you're not going to rank.

06:46.79
Bridget Willard
Exactly. I mean this is how I met you when I was riding for Riggins Construction back in 2009 because ah, the reason why I do is I wanted people to know we were still in business. Because everybody was shuttering their doors around us after that housing crisis. Um. And and you know when people are looking at your website and um, you haven't published anything -- if they even find your website -- you haven't published anything that's kind of a problem. But what about like the validation part? Like so discovery. Discovering that business. Discovery and validation are two sides of the same coin and in lead generation and word of mouth. So when you you found a, you found a business right, because so and so Allison told you to to hire this roofing company. You go to their website, and it's not answering any of your questions.

07:42.59
Robert Nissenbaum
Well and that becomes a big thing. There's this level of, you know people. It's like we used to turn around and I remember my mom would just turn around and call up her friends and say hey who do you recommend for this who do you do for this?? um and she get off the phone and make a phone call to that Business. Um. Even now the same thing on social media. People will recommend 3 and 4 and 5 different businesses. But that doesn't mean anybody's going to simply just call them right away. What I tend to find is that people will do their own due diligence once they have that recommendation. They're going to go over to a website. They're going to look up their social media profiles. They're going to look for something that validates what they've just been told. Great; my Best friend told me this and hire this company but I go to their website and it doesn't work like they've been in business for 10 years, I don't think so. Right? If It doesn't look like they can actually do what I'm I'm asking for what my friend recommended them for I'm going to be leery about hiring them I've had you know roofing companies do the same thing. Well if they specialize in flat roofs, and that's what they're being recommended for, but there's no content on their website showing anything that they know what they're doing about flat roofs or with them I'm probably not going to hire them. At least need to I at least give me something that says you understand my problem.

08:54.68
Bridget Willard
Right. Yeah I mean be like going into a bank. I remember the first time I went to a Chase branch that didn't look like a bank anymore. I want the tellers. I want to tell our windows. I want to see the vault otherwise it looks like a storefront that's for money laundering like there's a trust issue. I I want. I never forget I walked in there I was like and there's just people like you see them at desk and there's like these little Kiosk for ATMs and I'm just going is this a bank? And even my credit my credit union down the street.

09:17.85
Robert Nissenbaum
Ah.

09:31.19
Robert Nissenbaum
Right.

09:36.76
Bridget Willard
Credit Human they don't have tellers like that. They're not all lined up and I just go like can I deposit money here? I mean what is happening? There's a trust factor. How important is that? I know it's part of the authority. You know the expertise authority trust I know that's part of Google's thing but Google's thing is because of human behavior. So can you like talk a little bit how those words on your website contribute to trust in business?

10:05.94
Robert Nissenbaum
Well, um, that's just it I mean Google's entire search rank I really believe is based around how we would search as human beings. You know old school sort of thing right? They're trying to duplicate the same thing. Um. And understand how we think. That's where the AI is coming from That's why they're looking for more long, um, long tail keyword phrases as opposed to specific words. We search we ask questions about hey we're looking for this. Um we don't go up to our friends and say you know, "roofer Chicago." Right? Right. And even if you do then they're going to ask for more questions. Okay, what do you need before I can recommend the roof or to you I need to know are you looking at replacing a roof repairing your roof, have you had problems before right? All of these things which go back into your search history. So yeah, and as far as the Trust piece of it, It's just that. I think we get too worked up and that we have all right read all these keywords are on there and I've got here but I don't have any sense of who you are as individuals. I don't it doesn't look like you're active again. That's going to having old content. Websites can be found, but if they haven't been updated in 10 years are you still in business? I'm not really confident that you are. Um and not seeing new pictures posted anywhere. I'm just, it's just a name. And even what you have on the website are you simply giving me technical stuff.

11:15.40
Bridget Willard
Right? right.

11:30.78
Robert Nissenbaum
Need you this this and this I need you this or you having a conversation with me and I think that's when we get back to what our business is missing in terms of content aside from not having any content, the content they have is this all technical bullet pointed list as opposed to talking to their clients.

11:33.19
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

11:47.33
Bridget Willard
Yeah, like what the hell is a modified bitumen roof? I thought I had a flat roof right? So I mean we had this a big time problem when the pandemic hit and now all of a sudden. Everybody's looking at restaurant websites just see (a)if they're open.

11:48.69
Robert Nissenbaum
Customers.

12:01.83
Robert Nissenbaum
Yep.

12:05.83
Bridget Willard
And (b) if they still have a menu? Like just having updated information ah is really important.

12:11.65
Robert Nissenbaum
Yeah, and it's not difficult I mean. We get I think people also get hung up with us. Well it needs to be you know X number of words and it needs to be this and needs to be this. Yeah in an ideal world, it's mostly long-form content. It's well written. It's properly edited. It's properly formatted. It meets all the little, I mean for anybody still using Yoast, it meets all the little green dots. That's what this like and people get so worked up this so it doesn't mean it does. It doesn't matter right.

12:35.32
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

12:44.68
Robert Nissenbaum
300 words, even less sometimes is enough. It may not help rank, but it does help when somebody gets to your website to offer that credibility. And even if those are updated and I have it's funny I have people turn around.

12:53.76
Bridget Willard
Like a FAQ like a frequently asked questions.

13:02.10
Robert Nissenbaum
Just have these list of questions. Why isn't every one of those questions just a simple blog post that can individually be shared. And it doesn't take much. It's again and if you have 1 blog post that you simply keep updating on a regular basis, it eventually becomes long form.

13:04.70
Bridget Willard
Exactly exactly. Ah.

13:15.24
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah, exactly and they're just speaking of that like you're saying sharing. Um so having links on your website and like taking that FAQ page and then maybe you even you repurposing it as blog posts gives you something to share on social media. How much does social media play into SEO? Like a lot of times business owners don't care about a blog but they care about SEO, and I'm like words is SEO -- SEO is words -- and I use the wrong form on purpose.

13:47.52
Robert Nissenbaum
Well, I well I think it gets confusing because everybody hears SEO and thinks Google; when the SEO is search engine optimization and at this point Facebook.

13:50.37
Bridget Willard
Because it's funnier.

13:54.25
Bridget Willard
Right? right.

14:04.63
Robert Nissenbaum
Instagram. LinkedIn. Twitter. They're all search engines. We are looking exactly so any bit of content that you put out there will help you be found. It's a matter of where you be found where where you're going to be found. Um, so yeah, anything that you can create that allows you to share content.

14:07.52
Bridget Willard
What about Alexa and Siri?

14:24.21
Robert Nissenbaum
You may never come up in a Google search, but that doesn't mean you won't be located. Right? If I'm searching and I find an article on Facebook, great. And again E.A.T. All those individual articles. Especially Twitter articles get indexed. So anything you you can create that's shareable is.

14:27.72
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

14:38.30
Bridget Willard
Yep.

14:43.80
Robert Nissenbaum
Is perfect. I mean and I think at this point most people don't read full, long-form articles. Anyway.

14:47.41
Bridget Willard
No, because you're sitting there watching a movie and you're like dang how old is Jerry Seinfeld? And you go< hey Alexa how old is Jerry Seinfeld?" You just want the answer.

14:55.28
Robert Nissenbaum
Yeah yep, and I you know so I think we get this rate. So if I can't do these long form articles I don't have this time I don't have it don't put out anything. Um you know I think half of my articles I've started writing on my.

15:05.69
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

15:12.32
Robert Nissenbaum
Personal website have really been just these short little micro-blogs. You know they'll be 300-400 words it's just a topic I can't really do anymore. It's fine.

15:22.16
Bridget Willard
Yeah, so when a small business owner is like, "okay, fine Bridget. Okay, fine Robert. I get it I need to have words I don't have time for this crap. I need to hire somebody." How did they find somebody that actually like we know a writer is not a writer is not a writer. Okay. You don't want somebody who does who has wrote wrote their thesis for a PhD. That's not writing for the internet. How do these small business owners go about finding a writer?

15:50.46
Robert Nissenbaum
Ah, um, it you know over been doing their own search?

15:57.68
Bridget Willard
Yeah I mean like how like what's a way to find like for example, like I could you know Betty could tell me about this roofing company like you were saying, but if but if I want it for my commercial property and they don't do that. Right? Or vice versa like we used to get a lot of people coming to us for apartment communities and we don't do them. You know? So it's like there's just because it's a roofer or just because it's a nail salon. Maybe they don't do dipping. Maybe they only do shellac. Right? So.

16:30.97
Robert Nissenbaum
One of the easiest things, is if you if you that serious even a basic search. The ideas that as writers if I can't write something for somebody, if I don't have that skill set, if it's not something I would normally do I'm going to refer somebody else out. Right? i'm.

16:44.47
Bridget Willard
Right? But I mean I mean is it ah like what would you suggest would be the phrasing of the search? I guess is the question I'm asking.

16:53.70
Robert Nissenbaum
Okay, if we're going phrasing as much details you can um, "content writer for" and you know the type of article you want. It's a technical article. It's um, you know or even in industry you're in.

17:04.10
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, "content writer for nail salons." Um, yeah.

17:11.30
Robert Nissenbaum
Right? Or for sustainable-based businesses or environmental-based or. You know? The more information you can put into that search parameter to pinpoint what you're looking for the more likely you'll get a close match and then anybody at that point send an email.

17:24.60
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

17:30.54
Robert Nissenbaum
Once you reach a contact page reach out. If it's again, if it's something they're unable to deliver, they're probably tapped into somebody who could deliver it.

17:38.54
Bridget Willard
Yeah, "content writer." That's a perfect phrase because ah only copywriters are going to use that to describe themselves right? You're not looking for somebody to write your college essays on the down-low in a Reddit.

17:45.47
Robert Nissenbaum
Ah, right.

17:51.10
Robert Nissenbaum
Um, maybe you are but yeah.

17:58.20
Bridget Willard
I'm not saying exists but it exists. Ah so um, well, that's funny but it actually I know people have done that not me I just have a Bachelor's degree. So um, are there any.

18:10.28
Robert Nissenbaum
No.

18:15.10
Bridget Willard
writing tools that you would recommend for small business owners to kind of help them get this stuff right? I mean I know there's not a lot of Grammar Nazis out there and people don't even and read on the internet; they scan. But like what are what are what are some tools you would.

18:18.12
Robert Nissenbaum
Wow. Mr.

18:32.00
Bridget Willard
You know, suggest?

18:32.71
Robert Nissenbaum
I You know I think the biggest one is just write. Don't worry about what it says um you know and it doesn't matter how organized or whatever it seems to be just write. And once it's on paper it becomes much easier to edit and play with and you know how that doesn't sound right and we'll actually re reword it.

18:36.22
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

18:49.63
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

18:51.65
Robert Nissenbaum
Even without a whole lot of skill. Um and the other thing is to you know, stop using specific words that you always use. Find another word or phrase or a way to say something so you're mixing that piece of it up. I mean I've written articles where it's like okay, don't use certain words or don't use certain letters in me.

18:57.95
Bridget Willard
Yes.

19:11.12
Robert Nissenbaum
And writing if you can't write a you know a hundred word paragraph without using the letter "a" sort of thing right.

19:19.58
Bridget Willard
Yeah I was reviewing your tweets just to like get my head back into the Robert Nissenbaum world and you hit the two points I was hoping you would hit -- which is if you use your jargon define it and write every day. And I believe it was you

19:31.00
Robert Nissenbaum
Right.

19:37.31
Bridget Willard
who showed me that quote from Ernest Hemingway, "write drunk; edit sober." Get it out. Get it out of your head because Grammarly can always help you. Right?

19:40.19
Robert Nissenbaum
Yeah, yeah, there's always once content's out there. You can actually do something with it. It's kind of hard to work with nothing.

19:52.50
Bridget Willard
Yes, so even if a business owner hires a writer. They're gonna need some partnership with the business owner right?

19:58.44
Robert Nissenbaum
And then they have a couple of options if one of them is to hire somebody to write the articles for them or get them core articles that they can work from or otherwise it's to basically did their own brain dump. Right.

20:13.27
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:16.80
Robert Nissenbaum
Send anything you have anything you can think of on the topic or if you were just writing this and then send it to me send it to you send it to somebody who can actually do something with it then.

20:23.77
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, that's a great tip. Wow! Thank you for your time. Ah how can people find you? How do you want to be found on the internet?

20:32.72
Robert Nissenbaum
Um, um, the the easiest way to find me the website is TSO.media um and that'll get to my content and writin.g personal website that if people are looking for which is more of my own writing and the kayaking stuff that you brought up is going to be Robert or excuse me. Yeah, it.

20:38.62
Bridget Willard
Okay, yes.

20:52.70
Robert Nissenbaum
RNissenbaum.com

20:57.80
Bridget Willard
Awesome! Thank you so much for being on the show I'm just so excited. You're always full of great ideas and wisdom. Practical wisdom and very concise.

21:07.71
Robert Nissenbaum
Thank you appreciate it and and always fun to chat with you.

Why should your small business value writing as part of their marketing efforts? In this episode of the second season of the Launch With Words Podcast, Bridget is joined by writer Maddy Osman for an insightful conversation on how small business owners can DIY their content or hire a writer.

Follow Maddy Osman at @MaddyOsman on Twitter and check out her company website at theblogsmith.com.

More Episodes

https://launch-with-words.castos.com/

Get the Launch With Words Plugin for free on WordPress

https://wordpress.org/plugins/launch-with-words/

Transcript

00:19.53
Bridget Willard
Hey hey season 2 another episode. This is episode 3 with Maddie Osman -- the Maddie Osman. If you have seen anything in WordPress written about anything you've seen her byline. Maybe you haven't seen her byline. D you ghostwriting? yeah.

00:34.26
Maddy Osman
I Do some ghostwriting.

00:39.13
Bridget Willard
She's she's pretty ah prolific, is the word we would use, welcome. I'm like career goals I want to be like Maddie Osman. Will you be on my podcast?

00:44.20
Maddy Osman
I'm glad you think so and thank you for having me.

00:50.84
Maddy Osman
Well I'm I'm super happy to and I feel like Bridget like we learn from each other. You know, like we both have these different approaches but we both like ultimately are trying to do the same thing which is like help businesses communicate better.

01:06.18
Bridget Willard
Yeah, and that is a problem because they have a passion and an an expertise and knowledge for what they do, but sometimes they feel inhibited ah by writing.

01:13.60
Maddy Osman
Right.

01:19.22
Maddy Osman
So yeah.

01:21.31
Bridget Willard
So like what are some of the things you think small business owners need to know or to get over that inhibition. Like for me I'm a something is better than nothing person. Like just put it on the internet fix it later.

01:33.99
Maddy Osman
Solo. Yeah yeah.

01:36.52
Bridget Willard
So like what kind of tips would you give a small business owner?

01:40.47
Maddy Osman
Yeah, no I think that's ah, a really great start and I think that the beauty of the internet as a publishing medium versus print or even you know like media like TV or radio or something like that is that we can change it. Right? after we publish it. We have that power and not that the bar is like lower for things like grammatical errors or making mistakes. I mean that's still super important. But I think that because of the medium that we're publishing on and the fact that a lot of content that we're creating has some sort of timely nature to it. There's also this like forgiveness like if you do make a mistake or you know maybe you like need to dig a little bit deeper into something for it to really provide the value that you want somebody to get out of it or if you made you know, just a grammatical error or whatever, you always have the option to go back in and edit it and I don't think that many people are are going to be upset about that. Versus like a print book and it's like oh crap that's how it is now.

02:45.40
Bridget Willard
Well I started my career working at a publisher of college textbooks. There are errors in every book Always as they just have those redlined for the next edition. It's not that big of a deal even in print.

02:49.70
Maddy Osman
Nice Oh sure.

02:59.68
Maddy Osman
Right.

03:01.67
Bridget Willard
But now with "screenshots are forever" - everybody's like you did this wrong. I just read a job opening today for a mortgage company that had the wrong like plural. The plural was missing like ah all you're only going to use 1 resource I guess not many of it. So but that's me.

03:07.37
Maddy Osman
Yeah, yeah.

03:13.13
Maddy Osman
Ah, snaps.

03:21.20
Bridget Willard
And that's my, you know, occupational hazard. But wouldn't you say that most people don't even read on the internet?

03:23.18
Maddy Osman
Show. Right? They they Skim is really what we're trying to optimize for and so that's maybe another maybe another like helpful thing to know for a small business owner. That people aren't going to like dig into it. They're not going to write literary critiques about it. It's.. It's really just like you want to write something. It's the same approach as um, trying to optimize around somebody going into search and typing something and being like what is what are they trying to find and how can I be the perfect answer to their question. And so that's that's kind of how you have to go into it and the perfect answer is not a novel. It is as short as you can answer that question and then you can provide some additional information if people really want to know more. So.

04:12.53
Bridget Willard
[Bridget laughs] I can't. I can't help myself. I can't believe we haven't ah talked you know actual with our voices conversation yet. "The perfect answer is not a novel" is now the title this episode. But.

04:24.62
Maddy Osman
Oh love it! Perfect.

04:32.31
Bridget Willard
Ah I always tell people that writing a blog post isn't an eighth grade essay. Writing an email isn't an eighth grade essay and if you really need some help Grammarly is right there by your side for free.

04:35.92
Maddy Osman
Right.

04:44.25
Maddy Osman
I Swear by Grammarly honestly everybody on my team has a premium subscription. And I'll say part of the reason why is not only like Grammarly is fallible. You can't. It's not the same as a human editor. You know it doesn't get nuance the same. But what's really cool about Grammarly is you can add your own custom style guide so that you know it it adapts to the things that you decide are important, that you say are important and.

05:11.44
Bridget Willard
Yeah I should definitely get that premium subscription because I'm constantly going incorrect suggestion incorrect suggestion. Go home You're drunk. But seriously it's a great tool because a lot of times.

05:18.56
Maddy Osman
Ah, come on Grammarly right.

05:27.45
Bridget Willard
You know, Ernest Hemingway said, "write drunk at it sober." We we just need to get it out of our system. We need to get out. When I was in construction we we would hear these like objections people had to epoxy injection, for example, and and then you just solve that problem. It doesn't have to be necessarily polished.

05:33.55
Maddy Osman
Yep.

05:40.19
Maddy Osman
Okay. Right? so.

05:46.60
Bridget Willard
They just need to know that their building isn't going to look ugly when you finish correcting this problem. So there are tools as you mentioned like you know, but um, like what kind of a what kind of.

05:50.60
Maddy Osman
Totally.

06:03.10
Bridget Willard
Like that perfect answer. How does a small business owner who is super good at framing or drywall and maybe doesn't do SEO because they don't do SEO but like how can you give them that common sense tip of what is that perfect question?

06:03.60
Maddy Osman
And.

06:09.35
Maddy Osman
Sure.

06:17.87
Maddy Osman
Yeah, yeah, totally yeah. I think for somebody who doesn't want to spend like one hundred plus dollars a month on SEO tools, that's you know, just going to be for you know some smaller marketing efforts.

06:22.80
Bridget Willard
I mean I have my methods I Want to know what you're getting your secrets. Ah.

06:37.21
Maddy Osman
You know that they barely have time to run. Um I think honestly the easiest way to find that information and the most effective way to find that information is to go in and start doing those searches. And to see like what comes up as like a suggested search. So like what are different ways to think about the same topic?

06:49.39
Bridget Willard
Yep.

06:56.59
Maddy Osman
Um, looking at other like Google SERP which is Search Engine Results Page for anybody who doesn't know that um features like the People Also Ask. So that's kind of like you know what specifically do people want to find in these search results I mean that's that's probably the most useful part of.

07:06.34
Bridget Willard
Yep.

07:15.49
Maddy Osman
Google Search data um and then looking at the bottom. Yeah I mean that's it's really that simple I think that a tool like Hrefs which we swear by because that's what we do is SEO content. Um a tool like Hrefs is good to validate.

07:15.52
Bridget Willard
Um, literally that's how I do it. That's literally how I write for my clients.

07:34.73
Maddy Osman
Things like the market or how difficult like realistically it's going to be for you to be able to rank in that market and so that's fair if you're doing it at scale. But if you're just trying to to answer the question and you know which. And SEO might not even be your goal. But I think that SEO has a lot of answers for even just like outlining content.

07:56.30
Bridget Willard
Yeah, absolutely so when when you're not using it for that reason not SEO in particular although publishing is a ranking factor which is my point with Launch With Words is just do it right? What? What would you say is.

08:01.94
Maddy Osman
And. Sure right.

08:15.24
Bridget Willard
Um, ah other uses of the content on their website?

08:17.82
Maddy Osman
So Oh yeah, what I was going to say that I forgot to add to my last thought was in coming up with those answers something that we're doing a lot more now at The Blogsmith now that I've hired some more people and have more time to think about it is like coming up with Sales Collateral. So It looks like a blog post but really, it's something that I can send to people who have the same questions over and over again, you know, to necessitate creating a piece of content for it and sort of like confidently answering the question and, you know, people being able to feel confident in that answer and and knowing that we've addressed that before and and that we have a process around it. So.

08:58.96
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's I mean it feels so good to hear another writer do exactly what I do. That's how I started. Well because ah you know that was what was happening people were asking a question over and over and over again. Back when I was the secretary.

09:05.91
Maddy Osman
So validating.

09:13.10
Maddy Osman
Joe. Yeah.

09:16.45
Bridget Willard
If we would have all these files right? Physical paper files. and if if there was something that didn't belong anywhere you put it in the alphabetical miscellaneous file. But once there were 3 of them, it got its own file. I approach that the same way with content. If somebody's asked you the same question 3 times then it's not.

09:23.70
Maddy Osman
Show. Here.

09:36.00
Bridget Willard
You know for WordPress people, it's not in your documentation well or they can't find it or it's not on your website. And often people hear about you from word-of-mouth like this is the objection I hear from small, especially service-based industries that oh we work on word of mouth. Okay, so if Betty told

09:44.46
Maddy Osman
Yeah.

09:54.53
Bridget Willard
her friend Karen about your roofing company. She's going to go to your website now she's using your content for validation. Not just discovery. So when people are looking at their content like let's say they've been doing it.

09:56.56
Maddy Osman
Yeah, right. Right? yeah.

10:13.30
Bridget Willard
Now they're looking at Google Analytics, what which part of Google Analytics do you think a small business owner should pay attention to because you can just like geek out and be sucked into the black hole of Google Analytics? Like what is a good thing for them to focus on?

10:13.37
Maddy Osman
So.

10:21.34
Maddy Osman
Oh my god totally yeah I think that in general the overview is a good like summary of like the health of your website. Um. In terms of just like are people even using it you know and it's not so much about having like a million visitors a month or something it's is it growing are people staying on the page. Are they bouncing after looking at 1 page or you know do you have enough content to kind of keep them engaged and keep them. Doing kind of what you're saying this like self-service process of of deciding if you are the right business to help them with whatever it is that they need help with um and then I would say also just kind of more from my perspective. The queries report is useful because it shows. Um.

11:05.94
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah, um.

11:16.89
Maddy Osman
I can't remember if it's stuff that leads people to you from search or if it's what they're actually typing like in the search on your website but either way I mean useful data for sure to know like what people want to know.

11:26.76
Bridget Willard
Yeah, because if they're coming there because they're looking for advice on relationships and then they're not finding it or you don't write about it enough. Yeah, that's telling you what people are looking for and how that's bringing them to your websites. That's.

11:41.80
Maddy Osman
Right.

11:45.85
Bridget Willard
Super useful information. So ah, you have a company called The Blogsmith and you service these these other small businesses in tech and things like that. What advice would you give to a small business owner who's like listen I don't have time for this crap. Ah.

11:45.98
Maddy Osman
Yeah, and.

11:55.60
Maddy Osman
And.

12:04.50
Bridget Willard
The small business owner sometimes forgets that they are the source of truth in many ways to even ah, a writer that they hire. But how do they go about finding a writer?

12:07.89
Maddy Osman
Right? so.

12:19.77
Bridget Willard
Like where would you send them to search?

12:21.73
Maddy Osman
So sure. Yeah I mean besides working with The Blogsmith, Um, I would say that one of the places I've had the most success finding great writers is actually on Reddit. There's this hire a writer subreddit and you know what you do is you go in and you kind of just.

12:25.00
Bridget Willard
Um, yeah.

12:35.92
Bridget Willard
Um.

12:40.83
Maddy Osman
Post generally about the job you're looking for and like the expertise you're looking for. You do have to specify a pay rate that's important and I think that's important really on any channel because you don't want to waste. People's time you don't want them to waste your time. You don't want to waste their time you want to make sure you're in the same ballpark. Um. I've had success on Craigslist, too. I think it's all about setting expectations. So like going through and writing a job description before you post and not just kind of you know, finagling it together, um without any sort of idea of like what you're really looking for. And then the other part of the process is having a good application so that you can ask them questions about their experience or like how they would handle certain situations especially if they're going to be working on a team setting where it's like you but maybe also an editor or something like that. Um, and then like the last part for me is having.

13:28.70
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

13:35.60
Maddy Osman
Some sort of paid test project where you can really test whoever the best of the best applicants are to see that they can actually follow your processes. Because they might be a great writer but they may not work the same way that you do and and if they don't then it's just not a fit and that's okay, but you know you don't want to.

13:50.78
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah.

13:55.25
Maddy Osman
You don't want to spend a whole lot of time on something that's like never going to work and.

13:56.94
Bridget Willard
Absolutely and I like that you add paid tech the test project because I'm I'm always saying I don't do free work. I don't do spec work. Like that's the that's the reason why I am prepaid in my business because.

14:02.25
Maddy Osman
Very important. Hell No. No.

14:15.40
Bridget Willard
You know in construction which is my big background before I became went in marketing for tech you do you get a deposit you do some of the work and you bill progressively. It's the same as web development actually. And you bill progressively. You do the work you get paid. You do the work you get paid.

14:19.30
Maddy Osman
Yeah, right? right. Yeah.

14:32.90
Bridget Willard
But if you do spec work. It's out there and they can use it and they're just getting free work and you don't get feedback and you don't get compensated for your time. So um, that shows you as a small business owner are serious about finding somebody on staff.

14:35.28
Maddy Osman
Right? right.

14:50.98
Bridget Willard
Who understands your industry and and can write about it in a way that makes sense to the general population. You know.

14:55.67
Maddy Osman
Totally and I think like you and I Bridget we have enough experience at this point where it's like check out our portfolio. You know? Like like what more do you have to figure out? You know it's like.

15:08.58
Bridget Willard
Do a Google search.

15:10.51
Maddy Osman
The only the only question is if we're going to fit like your specific business. But if you want to know like are we professional writers. It's like there's enough out there. You can figure it out right? like.

15:17.84
Bridget Willard
I know Google my name I mean I used to have more bylines, um, but you know some people take their websites down after a while or whatever but like I have books I'm like whatever. like yeah so I mean for me. For writers and that's another that's a good way to pivot the rest.

15:26.50
Maddy Osman
Sure it happens that.

15:37.25
Maddy Osman
Sure.

15:37.47
Bridget Willard
The balance of this conversation I do as a client I do have a page where I have writing samples of things where I don't have to kill you if I tell you that I wrote for them. It's like I'm a ghostwriter, what am I supposed to show you? But the ones where I have a byline in all these different industries. You can go read that.

15:41.73
Maddy Osman
And.

15:48.83
Maddy Osman
Right.

15:54.31
Maddy Osman
Okay.

15:55.56
Bridget Willard
If you still have a problem I mean feel free to go to fiverr. But like what it's what advice would you give to writers who are trying to pair with small business owners? Because that's match made to heaven. There's there's a lot of that that needs to happen.

16:01.62
Maddy Osman
Yeah, yeah I I Totally yeah I think um I think that curating your portfolio is important. And I and I think that for ghostwriters, there is some, there are some things that you can't put on your public portfolio because of the agreements you have with clients. But I think most clients are okay if behind the scenes through a private email conversation that you would send them those pieces and say this is this is something I wrote. Um.

16:30.90
Bridget Willard
Right.

16:36.10
Maddy Osman
But yeah, curating it so that it's as relevant as possible to that small business and like let's just say construction like maybe you've worked with like um, someone who does like plumbing but you haven't worked with this new client or a new client like them where maybe they do HVAC or something.

16:52.30
Bridget Willard
Right? right.

16:55.21
Maddy Osman
And so you could still send those like plumbing samples just to show them like in the sort of like trades and stuff like I have handled this before maybe even connecting the dots to say here's how I can bridge that gap to work with you and I think another thing that's really important really.

17:07.86
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

17:12.99
Maddy Osman
Regardless of what client you're working with is asking like do you have access to a subject matter expert. Whether that's the client or somebody on the client's team or even somebody on their network. That's just willing to be a voice in these articles for the sake of them. Also like you know being promoted being shared.

17:30.10
Bridget Willard
Yeah.

17:32.28
Maddy Osman
Um, and having a process where you kind of go into these new articles coming up with questions that you can ask and and get a real answer from a real expert and then using that to make a truly unique piece of content because you are doing your research and you are you know, getting experts. Involved in it. So I think that I think maybe like a general answer to this question is just have good processes for dealing with situations especially where it's a topic that you don't know that much about and.

18:01.83
Bridget Willard
Yeah, yeah, the other day I was sitting in the bathtub learning about Gatsby. So like that's just what happens. You know writers are learners. Yeah. Well um, do you have a little bit of extra advice.

18:07.80
Maddy Osman
So nice right? Lifetime learners for sure.

18:20.39
Bridget Willard
Like like what's like something that frustrates you that small business owners don't seem to understand about writing and the value of it for the web?

18:28.93
Maddy Osman
Sure. Sure. I think that this hasn't been a huge issue recently and probably more because we've started like actually enforcing it but having like an intake process and then like forcing the client to go through that. Not just making it optional. I think. I Think that was my mistake in the past was I created this like kind of long, intimidating form. And so I tried like a couple different things I was like you know I'll get on the phone with you and fill it out with you if that helps. Now I think that people actually like just doing it themselves. And something that I've started to do to incentivize that is like sending them like a gift card to a coffee shop or something and saying like get a little you know treat for yourself while you fill this out. Because I know that it's It's a lot of work but you know the other thing that I do to incentivize people filling that out is I give them a copy.

19:14.28
Bridget Willard
Smart.

19:24.40
Maddy Osman
Of it. It automatically gets sent to them when they finish it and that way any other marketing vendors they work with will benefit from that same information. They might have their own questions but it's you know the the details about their competition or Personas and stuff like that like that's going to help any person they work with.

19:32.64
Bridget Willard
Right.

19:43.29
Maddy Osman
In the future. Even if they don't work with me long-term and.

19:44.12
Bridget Willard
Yeah, that's so smart. Wow that there's so much in just a short period of time. How can people find more about you and your company.

19:52.85
Maddy Osman
And sure so we're Theblogsmith.com and, like Bridget, I love Twitter so at MaddieOsman on Twitter and.

20:01.50
Bridget Willard
Thank you so much for being on this. I am so fan-girlling. You're the best.

20:06.72
Maddy Osman
Ah I'm I'm very happy to be here.