Lawyers Who Learn

Jonathan Cohen became a mental fitness expert the hard way. As a Bronx DA in the Special Victims Unit, he prosecuted trauma cases while training for ultramarathons and studying what separates elite performers from everyone else. When those worlds collided, he built something most attorneys have never been offered: a practical system for managing the mind under pressure.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Jonathan to trace that journey—from Bronx prosecutor to Director of Sales at PNY Technologies—and the mental fitness practice he built along the way. Jonathan now teaches the Lawline CLE course Mental Fitness for Lawyers, which has earned 1,000 completions and a 4.9 out of 5 rating.

At the heart of his approach is one deceptively simple formula: Event + Response = Outcome. Lawyers default to reactive, undisciplined responses—and Jonathan argues the fix isn't therapy or yoga, but practical tools: intentional breathing, chasing perfect days, and treating recovery as something you actively build, not passively wait for.

His most honest moment? Failing a sub-three-hour marathon twice and realizing the person he became in pursuit of that goal mattered more than the finish line. That mindset shift, he believes, is exactly what the legal profession needs right now.

Most lawyers practice law. Gigio Koshy Ninan (‘Gio’) built a machine around it. State and Federal cases in three states, a thriving firm co-run with his wife, five Lawline courses with over 4,000 completions — and a brand strategy most law firms pay consultants to figure out. He just lived it.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, digs into how a kid from the Bronx — who almost became a high school history teacher — turned teaching into his sharpest competitive weapon.

Gio breaks down how he uses AI tools like NotebookLM to craft courses people actually finish, why prompting well is now a core legal skill, and where AI will genuinely disrupt law practice — and where it simply won't touch it for decades. His take on the fractional GC world is particularly sharp: disruption isn't coming, it's already here. But immigration law? Litigation? Still human territory for the foreseeable future.

Then there's his "R&R of lawyering" framework — reputation and relationships — the unglamorous system behind every major opportunity that's come his way, from Rutgers commencement speeches to federal court keynotes to clients who find him without a single cold call.

The lesson he keeps coming back to: in a world where clients don't know who to trust, the lawyers who teach, show up, and build in public are the ones who win.

Carrie H. Cohen has seen the American justice system from nearly every angle — as a civil rights attorney, a state and federal prosecutor, and now as a white collar defense partner at Morrison Foerster. That rare journey gives her a perspective few attorneys can match: she knows what it looks like to build a criminal case, tear one apart, and guide clients through the most serious moments of their careers.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Carrie for a candid conversation about current trends in federal law enforcement and new priorities including the increasing role of State Attorneys General in all areas of enforcement. From a renewed focus on narcotics trafficking to the  dismissal of charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams, Carrie cuts through the noise with clarity that only comes from having lived it.

Carrie takes listeners inside the Sheldon Silver prosecution — and the surprising detail that cracked the case open. She explains why political corruption cases are so hard to win, what it really means to guide someone through a potential criminal charge, and how empathy turns out to be one of the most important skills a defense attorney can have.

Carrie also teaches a seminar on public corruption at University of Pennsylvania Law School, and shares how today's headlines have transformed her classroom. Her belief in democratic institutions — tested but intact — makes this a grounding conversation for any professional trying to make sense of a complicated moment in American law.

What happens when a lawyer gets penalized — not for using AI, but for failing to catch someone else's AI-generated error? That's one of the counterintuitive lessons at the heart of John Koss's thinking: in the age of generative AI, ethical competence means understanding the tools even if you never touch them.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with John Koss, Head of Innovation and AI at Mintz, to explore what responsible AI adoption actually looks like inside a 600-attorney firm. John also teaches at Suffolk Law School and created the Lawline course Human Judgment Required, now one of the platform's most-completed ethics programs.

John unpacks why AI hallucinates legal citations — and why switching to a paid tool doesn't solve it. He also raises a warning most firms overlook: feeding client information into a public-facing AI can waive attorney-client privilege, a principle already tested in federal court. And before firms rush to buy the next platform, he argues the real work is unglamorous — cleaning up and organizing the firm's own data so any AI tool can actually do its job.

His own path mirrors that tension between speed and substance. A product liability litigator turned e-discovery pioneer, he earned an MBA from Kellogg while working full-time — not for the credential, but because the job was pulling him toward building something. His message to lawyers feeling overwhelmed: know how the tools work, know how to use them, and the noise gets quieter.

Stephanie Everett built her career by doing the one thing most lawyers avoid: asking the hard questions. After joining Lawyerist to launch Lawyerist Lab, navigating a leadership transition, and merging with Affinity Consulting, she's now Chief Growth Officer of a company helping small and mid-size law firms build healthier, more profitable businesses. Her secret weapon? Refusing to accept "I need to hire more people" as a real answer.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Stephanie to unpack what it actually takes to grow a law firm in a world being reshaped by AI. They cover her entrepreneurial journey from Atlanta-based consultant to co-owner of a coaching program David says he'd model his own after, and what she learned about building businesses that serve their owners rather than consume them.

The episode also dives into AI integration, from Lawyerist's weekly AI workshops for Lab members to Affinity's new Claude implementation packages. Stephanie's take is nuanced: pre-built tools are a starting point, but a lawyer's real edge lies in customizing them with the provisions, templates, and judgment they've spent years developing.

For attorneys feeling stuck, behind on AI, or just plain overwhelmed, this conversation delivers a grounded roadmap for what comes next.

Scott Sholder didn't plan on becoming one of the lawyers at the center of one of the most consequential legal battles of the AI era. The entertainment litigator and partner at Cowan, DeBaets, Abrahams & Sheppard LLP — a boutique firm with a long history in film, television, theater, music, visual arts, and publishing — found his copyright expertise suddenly in high demand the moment generative AI began reshaping the creative economy. Now co-counsel on class action suits against Anthropic and OpenAI, Scott is helping define where human authorship ends and machine output begins.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Scott to unpack the fast-moving legal landscape where copyright law and generative AI collide.

Scott breaks down why raw AI output belongs to no one even if a prompt might earn copyright protection. He explains the crucial distinction between input and output claims, what thin copyright actually means, and why effort alone doesn't make AI-generated work protectable. In the midst of a litigation landscape  with over 100 lawsuits filed against AI companies and settlements pending, Scott offers a practitioner's view of a legal doctrine under genuine stress.

But the conversation doesn't stop at doctrine. Scott shares how a journalism major who once dreamed of music transactional work ended up in litigation — and why staying visible in a competitive field has everything to do with being unapologetically yourself. His lifelong taekwondo practice and intentional approach to stress reveal a lawyer who builds discipline into every part of his life.

For any legal professional navigating the collision of creativity and technology, this episode is required listening.

In March 2020, David Lat checked into NYU Langone struggling to breathe. Seventeen days later—having been intubated and fighting for his life—he walked out with a clarity he hadn't expected: life is short, and he wanted to return to doing work that he loved.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with David Lat—Harvard undergrad, Yale Law grad, former federal prosecutor, founder of Above the Law, and now the writer and publisher behind Original Jurisdiction—for a wide-ranging conversation about legal journalism, AI's disruption of the profession, and the future of the legal industry.

David shares how that near-death experience became the catalyst for launching Original Jurisdiction, a subscription newsletter and podcast that lets him do exactly what he loves: write. He reflects on why he walked away from Above the Law and why running a deliberate one-person operation feels like freedom, not limitation. The conversation digs into the legal profession's most pressing challenges—from unauthorized practice of law and AI dismantling Big Law's training pipeline to whether the billable hour can survive what's coming.

David also opens up about sharing his COVID ordeal publicly—how those social media posts kept him connected during lonely hospital nights and reminded the profession this was no joke. His book recommendations, including Status Anxiety and On Liberty, reveal the intellectual curiosity behind one of legal media's most distinctive voices. This is a conversation about choosing meaning over prestige, and finding the courage to build a career that is entirely, unapologetically your own.

Ahmad Alokush has spent his career at the intersection of technology and regulated industries, building AI systems for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Barclays, and some of the world's largest law firms. But his most important insight has nothing to do with code. It's a philosophical warning rooted in Plato: stop treating AI like a human.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Ahmad to unpack two of his most popular Lawline courses, AI in the Courtroom and Decoding Blockchain, Cryptocurrency, and the Law, and the conversation gets surprisingly candid and practical.

Ahmad explains why generative AI doesn't actually think. It guesses. That distinction matters enormously in a legal setting, as one judge discovered when he ran the same damages analysis three times in open court and got three different answers. Ahmad also breaks down prompt engineering, the underrated skill that separates lawyers who use AI effectively from those who get burned by it, and why a single well-built prompt can be worth more than any off-the-shelf legal tech subscription.

The episode also tackles the rapidly shifting crypto legal landscape, the Genius Act, the U.S. Strategic Bitcoin Reserve, and an SEC that is finally committing to telling you the rules before penalizing you for breaking them. For any attorney trying to make sense of where crypto regulation is actually heading, this conversation cuts through the noise.

If you've ever wondered whether you can really trust AI in your practice, this episode will change how you think about it.

What if watching your parents' destructive courtroom battle as a nine-year-old could become the catalyst for transforming how thousands of families end their marriages? For Elizabeth (Liz) Vaz, that painful childhood memory didn't just shape her. It gave her an unshakeable professional mission decades later. At 55, she still remembers every detail of how ugly it got, and how no one was looking out for the kids.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, sits down with Liz Vaz, Collaborative divorce attorney and Lawline faculty member, to explore how she turned personal trauma into a pioneering legal practice and why collaborative divorce may be the most underutilized tool in family law today.

Elizabeth's model keeps families out of the courtroom entirely. Each spouse retains their own Collaboratively trained attorney, but instead of battling before a judge, the couple works alongside a financial neutral and a mental health professional to craft their own agreement. The result is roughly a third of the cost of traditional litigation, with decisions made by the family, not a stranger in a robe who doesn't know them.

She also dismantles the biggest myth surrounding Collaborative divorce: that it only works when couples already agree. Parties can be deeply at odds. The only requirement is a willingness to sit at the table. It's a reframe that opens the door far wider than most attorneys or clients realize.

For Liz, this was never just a career choice. Sometimes your deepest wound points you straight toward your life's work.

Joni Watke has spent decades championing LGBTQ+ rights. She's a social justice advocate to her core. So when she took an implicit bias test and discovered she had a measurable preference for white people, she was mortified — and spent days trying to convince herself the results were wrong. Then she realized that if she couldn't say it out loud, she was part of the problem.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman talks with Joni Watke, Nebraska family law attorney and founder of Academy LGBTQ, about what it actually means to show up for marginalized clients — in the courtroom and in the classroom. Joni didn't set out to become an LGBTQ+ advocate. She fell into family law through her uncle's practice, and it wasn't until a DOMA ballot vote in 2000 — when she realized the opposition wasn't a fringe minority — that something shifted.

That awakening led to 30 years representing same-sex couples and transgender clients through an increasingly hostile legal landscape. She walks through why a birth certificate alone doesn't protect parental rights, why hospital visitation documents belong in every same-sex estate plan, and why transgender clients in certain states now face jail time simply for using a public restroom — part of more than 500 anti-LGBTQ+ bills pending across the country.

Her training work through Academy LGBTQ meets all of this with science rather than politics. But what ties her practice and her teaching together is a willingness to keep discovering what she doesn't know, and do something about it.