Lead & Follow

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-leaders-build-capable-teams-without-doing-everything-themselves-chad-bennett/

Many leaders become the person everyone depends on — but that can prevent the very people around them from developing their own skills and confidence. Chad Bennett shares how learning both sides of team dynamics changed the way he approaches leadership, delegation, and developing people who can contribute beyond their assigned roles.

Chad Bennett is Director of Technology for Sturgis Public Schools in Michigan and Tech/Production Director for Radiant Life Church. He completed his Bachelor of Science degree in Organizational Leadership from Indiana Wesleyan University, where he studied leadership alongside the skills needed to contribute effectively within teams. His experience leading technology and volunteer teams gives him a practical perspective on creating opportunities for others to grow.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leaders can unintentionally limit teams by holding onto too much responsibility
• How delegation helps people develop new skills and confidence
• Why team members contribute more when they understand their role in the bigger mission
• How leaders can create opportunities for others to step up
• What servant leadership looks like when everyone contributes to the work

References

John 13: Jesus Washes His Disciples Feet 

Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/rethinking-leadership-education-why-roles-matter-more-than-rank-michael-linville-and-mark-rennaker/

Many leadership programs teach people how to lead — but fewer explore what makes people effective when they are contributing from every other role on a team. Michael Linville and Mark Rennaker discuss why understanding team roles, purpose, and contribution changes the way students and professionals think about leadership.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leadership education is incomplete without understanding how teams function
• How separating roles from rank changes students’ perspectives on leadership
• Why purpose can become the foundation for how people contribute within organizations
• What educators can do to create more complete leadership development programs
• How understanding different team roles can change the way people see themselves and others

Michael W. Linville is professor in Indiana Wesleyan University’s PhD in Organizational Leadership program. He holds several certifications in areas such as leadership, emotional intelligence, and personality typology, including Ira Chaleff’s Followership Train the Trainer program. Combining 15 years of corporate experience with 25 years of international nonprofit experience (including four years directing a college in Kiev, Ukraine), Linville was awarded Dragomanov University’s Silver Medallion Award in 2009 for his service and contribution to education in Ukraine. He also leads an international nonprofit organization that he founded in 2001 and is the cofounder and senior adviser of a leadership think tank based in Ukraine. Linville regularly presents on leadership and followership topics at various national and international academic and professional conferences, including the International Leadership Association’s Annual Global Conference. He also consults with organizations and individuals both nationally and internationally.

Mark A. Rennaker is chair of the Division of Leadership and Followership Studies at Indiana Wesleyan University. He served 30 years in faith-based and nonprofit leadership roles at local, regional, and national levels. He has also served a variety of leadership roles during 15 years of higher education experience, and he is certified with Ira Chaleff’s Followership Train the Trainer program. Rennaker has multiple research interests, including servant-leadership, trust, followership, and human resource development. Rennaker regularly presents on leadership, followership, and higher education topics at national and international academic and professional conferences, including the International Leadership Association’s Annual Global Conference. He consults with organizations and speaks at various events. 

Connect with Dr. Michael Linville and Dr. Mark Rennaker
www.purposeshipmatters.com

Order your copy of Essentials of Followership
Order at Kendall Hunt
Order on Amazon
Order at Barnes and Noble

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/the-problem-with-teaching-leadership-without-team-awareness-scott-allen/

Leadership education often focuses on how people take charge — but Scott Allen believes people need a broader understanding of how they contribute within a team system. Through his work with students, educators, and organizations, Scott explores how awareness of different roles helps people become more intentional, effective participants in any group.

Scott Allen, PhD, is professor of management at John Carroll University and co-founder of the Collegiate Leadership Competition, an experiential program that helps students practice leadership in real-world team settings. He is also an author, host of Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders, and a frequent facilitator of leadership workshops across industries.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leadership development is incomplete without understanding the full team system
• How awareness changes the way people participate in groups
• Why intentionality matters more than simply holding a leadership role
• What students learn when they practice different roles within teams
• How educators can create leadership programs that prepare people for real-world collaboration

Connect with Scott Allen
www.scottjallen.net

Collegiate Leadership Competition
www.collegiateleader.org

Phronesis Podcast Episodes
Dr. Barbara Kellerman - Leader, Followers, & Contexts

Dr. Ron Riggio - Leadership: Here's What We Know

Sharna Fabiano – Connect, Collaborate, Co-Create

Sharna Fabiano – Lead & Follow

Dr. John Ross - Team Unity: A Leader's Guide to Unlocking Extraordinary Potential 

Other Resources

John Ross, Team Unity 

Kansas Leadership Center, “Intervene skillfully”

Youtube Video Clip, Apollo 13 - A New Mission

Mike Linville and Mark Rennaker, Essentials of Followership

Anthony E. Middlebrooks, Scott J. Allen, Mindy S. (Sue) McNutt, James L. Morrison, Discovering Leadership, second edition

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-college-students-learn-to-lead-without-being-in-charge-henry-sergent/

Many college students think leadership begins when they are given a title or position — but Henry Sergent discovered that influence happens long before that. Through student clubs, fraternity conversations, and creative projects, Henry shares how learning to contribute, support others, and shape group outcomes changed the way he understands teamwork.

Henry Sergent is a third-year student at Christopher Newport University and a participant in the university’s President’s Leadership Program. Through the program’s focus on different roles within teams, he has applied what he learned while organizing the student golf club, participating in campus organizations, and collaborating on creative projects like a clothing brand photo shoot.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How college students can build leadership skills before holding formal positions
• Why strong teams depend on people who contribute ideas from every role
• How creative projects reveal different ways to influence a group
• Why self-awareness helps people find their best contribution on a team
• What students gain when they learn to support a group’s success, not just lead it

Henry Sergent's Hand-Painted Vintage Clothing
IG @sergentvintage

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/what-a-disney-first-job-teaches-about-teamwork-and-customer-experience-lawson-herold/

Working at Disney requires more than performing a role — it requires understanding the experience you are helping create for others. Lawson Herold shares how his first professional role aboard the Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser at Walt Disney World revealed the importance of empathy, storytelling, and knowing how to contribute effectively within a team.

Lawson Herold is a graduate of Christopher Newport University’s President’s Leadership Program, which includes dedicated coursework on understanding different roles within teams. During his time with the Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser experience, he applied lessons from that program to a highly collaborative environment where every crew member shaped the guest experience.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• What a first job can teach you about teamwork and professional growth
• Why customer experience depends on every person understanding their role
• How empathy and moral courage influence everyday workplace decisions
• Why supporting others can be an active way to create change
• How storytelling requires both understanding your audience and knowing your own role

 
References:

Leadership is Half the Story
Marc and Samantha Hurwitz

Lightness & Play - Tova Moreno 
(Season 1, Episode 18)

Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-college-leadership-programs-prepare-students-for-real-world-teamwork-lori-throupe-lacey-grey-hunter/

Most leadership programs focus on preparing people to take charge — but students spend much more of their lives contributing within teams where they do not hold the formal title. Lori Throupe and Lacey Grey Hunter share how Christopher Newport University redesigned its leadership education approach to help students understand their influence, advocate for their ideas, and contribute more effectively from every position.

Lori Throupe is Leadership Studies faculty and Faculty Director of Academic Success at Christopher Newport University. Lacey Grey Hunter is Director of the President’s Leadership Program and Adjunct Professor of Leadership Studies. Together, they helped integrate a new course into CNU’s leadership curriculum focused on helping students understand how they participate in teams beyond traditional leadership roles.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leadership education needs to prepare students to influence without authority
• How a university designed a course around real-world team participation
• Why students gain confidence when they recognize their own influence
• How understanding different roles changes relationships between students and leaders
• What educators can do to create more complete leadership development programs

Books 

The Power of Followership, Robert Kelley

Followership, Barbara Kellerman

The Courageous Follower, Ira Chaleff

Leadership is Half the Story, Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz

Other References

Collegiate Leadership Competition
www.collegiateleader.org

 Radical Candor
www.radicalcandor.com

Global Followership Conference, March 24-26, 2023
www.followershipconference.com

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/what-multi-person-puppetry-teaches-about-teamwork-kelsey-kato/

What happens when three or four performers must work together to bring a single character to life? Multi-person puppetry demands extraordinary coordination, trust, and communication, making it a fascinating laboratory for understanding how people share responsibility without competing for control.

Kelsey Kato is a puppeteer and educator who has explored collaborative performance through his work with Rogue Artists Ensemble in Los Angeles and as a performer and guide for Noah's Ark, the award-winning interactive exhibition at the Skirball Cultural Center. His experience creating performances that rely on multiple puppeteers offers a unique perspective on how teams communicate through movement, timing, and attention rather than words alone.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What multi-person puppetry reveals about effective teamwork
• How nonverbal communication helps teams coordinate complex work
• Why clear cues and shared timing build trust under pressure
• How creating a strong foundation allows others to contribute their best ideas
• Why choosing to support someone else's lead can strengthen the entire group's performance

Resources

Skirball Cultural Center
www.skirball.org

Rogue Artists Ensemble
www.rogueartists.org

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-peacebuilders-move-beyond-command-and-control-leadership-pedro-portela/

Many of today's toughest challenges—from organizational conflict to global crises—cannot be solved through command-and-control leadership. Pedro Portela explains how peacebuilding and systems thinking offer a different approach, one that depends on shared thinking, voluntary participation, and strong relationships that inspire people to move forward together.

Pedro Portela is an engineer-turned peacebuilding consultant, complex systems thinking coach, and conflict transformation practitioner based in Portugal. His work helps organizations and communities understand how networks, human relationships, and distributed influence shape lasting change in situations where no single person can direct the outcome.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why command-and-control leadership often fails in complex systems
• How systems thinking changes the way we approach conflict resolution
• What peacebuilding teaches about shared responsibility and collective action
• Why choosing who to support can be as important as deciding who should lead
• How networks create change that no single leader can accomplish alone

Episode References

John Paul Lederach, The Moral Imagination: The Art and Soul of Building Peace

Connect with Pedro Portela

Podcast: It Takes Two to Tango  

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedro-portela-9a40423/

Medium: https://medium.com/@pportela

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/why-the-best-leaders-dont-always-take-the-lead-sharna-fabiano-eran-magen/

What if our biggest assumption about leadership is wrong? In this thought-provoking conversation, guest host Eran Magen turns the microphone on Sharna Fabiano to explore whether always taking the lead is really the most effective way to influence people, make decisions, and work together.

Rather than offering another model of leadership, they examine the deeper assumptions that shape how we think about authority, decision-making, and human relationships. Drawing on experiences from social dance, organizational life, and everyday interactions, they consider what changes when we see influence as something reciprocal rather than imposed.

This conversation invites listeners to rethink one of the most fundamental ideas in leadership: that effective collaboration may begin not with leading, but with responding to something.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why constantly taking charge is actually not the most effective way to influence others
• How responding to what is already happening can be more important than initiating a new action
• How social dance offers surprising insights into collaboration and decision-making
• What changes when we see influence as something everyone does, not just the person in charge

Episode References:

Joshua Wolf Shenk
Powers of Two: How Relationships Drive Creativity

Marc and Samantha Hurwitz
Leadership is Half the Story: A Fresh Look at Followership, Leadership, and Collaboration

Connect with Dr. Eran Magen
www.parentingforhumans.com

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-skilled-collaborators-learn-to-respond-instead-of-control-daniel-burkholder/

What happens when you stop trying to control every outcome and start responding to what is unfolding in the moment? Choreographer Daniel Burkholder explores how Contact Improvisation and the Feldenkrais Method develop the awareness, trust, and adaptability that make great collaboration possible—on stage and far beyond it.

Daniel Burkholder is a choreographer, performer, educator, Feldenkrais Method practitioner, and Associate Professor of Dance at the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, where he directs the MFA in Dance program. His work spans live performance, site-specific choreography, screendance, mindfulness, and embodied improvisation, all centered on how people move, create, and solve problems together.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What improvisation teaches about trust and effective collaboration
• How responding to others in the moment can create better decisions than sticking to a rigid plan
• Why active listening begins with paying attention to physical and nonverbal cues
• How positive outcomes emerge naturally when people adapt instead of trying to control the process
• What leaders, educators, and teams can learn from movement practices that depend on mutual awareness

Connect with Daniel Burkholder
www.danielburkholder.com

Listen to Daniel’s act | re | act podcast
www.danielburkholder.com/actreact-podcast

Example of Contact Improvisation
https://youtu.be/q4wUEiHowSU

Information on Feldenkrais Method
https://feldenkrais.com/

 
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
www.sharnafabiano.com

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support