Lead & Follow

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-4-h-builds-youth-leadership-skills-through-teamwork-maddie-gray/

Long before people have a job title, youth programs can teach them how to step forward, support others, and handle the challenges of working with a team. Maddie Gray shares how fifteen years in 4-H shaped her understanding of when to take initiative, when to support a teammate, and how strong teams depend on people who can move between roles.

Maddie Gray is a Leadership & Organizational Studies major at the University of Southern Maine and a member of the USM Collegiate Leadership Competition team. She has been involved with 4-H for fifteen years, where she developed skills through public speaking competitions, team experiences, and youth leadership opportunities. Her perspective offers a firsthand look at how young people learn to contribute, communicate, and grow through shared responsibility.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How youth leadership programs help people develop confidence before they have formal authority
• Why rotating leadership roles can strengthen team communication
• How to approach difficult conversations with teammates
• Why accepting a support role can be just as important as taking charge

Episode References 

Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower
https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738/

4-H Youth Development Organization
https://4-h.org/

Dancing Guy – First Follower Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/quick-tips-great-meeting-agendas/

Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is make meeting agendas and make them great. 

One reason we tend to complain about meetings is that they feel like a waste of time. I know that when I don’t have any meaningful way to participate, or the topic isn’t relevant to me, I can’t get out of the room fast enough, and if I’m required to be in the meeting, I start feeling resentful pretty fast, because my time is limited and I have things to do. I imagine you may feel the same way.

The good news is that if you are leading a meeting, you have a lot of influence over how that time is spent. Making a great agenda is one way you can make really good use of time. I know the term agenda may sound boring, but it doesn’t have to be. I actually really love agendas because to me a well-crafted meeting agenda is like a well-crafted choreography or set of stage directions. Basically, it’s a way of organizing time so that the meeting flows in a logical, useful, and maybe even interesting and fun.

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

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Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/teaching-leadership-skills-through-games-activities-and-reflection-fran-kick/

Most leadership training focuses on the person in charge. Fran Kick takes a different approach: using interactive games and experiential learning to help people see how they contribute when they are leading, supporting, making decisions, and working as part of a team. From fifth-grade classrooms to Fortune 500 organizations, Fran shows why understanding both sides of a working relationship creates stronger results.

Fran Kick is an author, educational consultant, and professional speaker with more than 30 years of experience in education and business. Drawing from his background in Educational Psychology, he designs workshops, programs, and keynotes that combine leadership development with the skills people need to contribute effectively within teams. He is also a Certified Speaking Professional through the National Speakers Association.

You’ll learn:

• How learning games can reveal team behaviors that traditional training misses
• Why leadership development is more effective when it includes the people supporting the work
• How experiential activities help participants practice communication and decision-making
• Why Fran teaches leadership and support skills together in classrooms and corporations
• What happens when organizations stop viewing leadership as only a role or title

Connect with Fran Kick
www.kickitin.com

• Neil Howe and William Strauss, Generations
• Morris Massey's Stages of Values Development
• The work of Marshall Goldsmith 
• The social change model of leadership development
• Edgar H. Schein and Peter A. Schein, Humble Leadership 

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/quick-tips-style-your-language/

If you’re a strongly narrative thinker, you may respond to any kind of question by telling a story. That usually starts by providing considerable background information and then describing what happened in chronological order. Stories are definitely a crucial part of how we learn, but they can also be time-consuming and therefore sometimes distracting.

Abstract thinkers like me fall on the opposite end of the spectrum. If this is you, you probably tend to zero in on one specific detail that you feel is important, or provide the verbal equivalent of a bulleted list. If someone asks you how your day was, you might just give a quick one-word assessment or list a few key events that took place. 

Boiling things down to the essentials is definitely time-efficient, but it can also prevent people from relating to you and understanding why they should care about what you are saying to begin with. The single detail doesn’t always give someone that bridge into your perspective like a story does. We even know from research in neuroscience that stories create an emotional hook and that’s why they motivate people to act, to learn and to change.

Both abstract and narrative thinking are useful in the right context. The question is: Which one will help you the most with the conversation or interaction you are having right now?  

A good rule of thumb is to use stories for presentations, proposals, and establishing common ground. Use concepts for troubleshooting, project updates, or brainstorming.

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/why-great-architects-know-when-to-lead-and-when-to-listen-michael-christoff/

An architect’s job is not just to bring a vision to life — it is to understand a client’s goals, challenges, and way of working well enough to create a space that truly serves them. Michael Christoff explores how designers move between leading with expertise and listening deeply to clients and collaborators throughout the design process.

Michael Christoff is Senior Associate and Practice Leader for Architecture at Vocon. He holds a Master of Architecture from Kent State University and an MBA from John Carroll University, and has developed expertise across corporate headquarters, mixed-use, and multifamily projects. Beyond his professional practice, Michael has contributed to Cleveland’s creative community through PechaKucha Night Cleveland, nonprofit arts and education boards, international design competitions, and leadership with the American Institute of Architects Cleveland Chapter.

You’ll learn:

• Why architects must balance creative authority with client understanding
• How listening becomes a critical design skill
• Why professionals need to shift roles throughout a project’s lifecycle
• How project teams decide when someone should lead and when someone should support
• What architecture teaches us about collaboration and shared responsibility

Episode References:

www.vocon.com

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/quick-tips-stretch-before-meetings/

Your lead & follow coaching tip for today is Stretch Before Meetings

Pre-meeting stretches, especially if you can stand up to do them, wake up your body so that you can connect more easily and more quickly to other people. Just 15 seconds is enough!

One the reasons the quick stretch works is that when you sit still for long periods of time, whole sections of your nervous system kind of go to sleep. Without your physical senses active, you’re actually less aware of your own body and your own emotional state, and having your body half asleep can make it harder to think. 

Try this out and let me know how it goes!

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-universities-teach-leadership-through-real-team-experience-dan-jenkins/

Leadership programs often teach people how to take charge — but fewer teach what happens when those same people are part of a team where someone else is leading. Dan Jenkins explores how changing the way leadership education is designed can help students develop a deeper understanding of teamwork, communication, and the responsibilities that come with every role on a team.

Dan Jenkins is Professor of Leadership & Organizational Studies at the University of Southern Maine and an expert in leadership education, curriculum design, and learning assessment. He is co-author of The Role of Leadership Educators: Transforming Learning and has published more than 40 articles and book chapters on leadership education. He is also a co-founder of the International Leadership Association’s Leadership Education Academy, Vice-Chair of the Collegiate Leadership Competition, Associate Editor of the Journal of Leadership Studies, and co-host of The Leadership Educator Podcast.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leadership programs benefit from teaching students multiple team roles
• How experiencing different roles changes the way students understand teamwork
• How educators can design leadership courses that build stronger team awareness
• What research reveals about students who learn to contribute beyond a leadership position

Episode References

Global Followership Conference
www.followershipconference.com 

The Leadership Educator Podcast
theleadershipeducator.podbean.com

Collegiate Leadership Competition
www.collegiateleader.org

 New Directions in Student Leadership, Volume 2020, Issue 167
Special Issue: Followership Education 

Leadership is Half the Story by Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz

Kolb’s Experiential Learning Model

The Role of Leadership Educators: Transforming Learning

Leadership and Followership Tango Video 

The Courageous Follower by Ira Chaleff 

ILA Leadership Education Academy

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
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Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/quick-tips-dress-comfortably/

Your lead & follow coaching tip for today is Dress Comfortably

This tip comes straight from my training as a social dancer, which includes a big focus on subtle non-verbal communication. To understand why this might be important in a professional context, think about communication in a very broad sense, not only as the words you speak or write, but also as the non-verbal tones and qualities you transmit to another person through your whole presence, through your body language, through your expression, your emotional state. And this is true by the way even if you’re writing an email, if you’re on video conference, if you’re talking on the phone. The way you feel in your body when you’re communicating, directly influences what you actually communicate, no matter what the delivery format may be.

Try this out and let me know how it goes!

Support the show

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Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-emotional-intelligence-helps-employees-speak-up-at-work-yolonda-tonette-sanders/

Many organizations say they want honest feedback and better ideas — but creating teams where people feel confident enough to question, challenge, and contribute requires more than asking for input. Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders explores how emotional intelligence influences the way people participate on teams and why leaders benefit from understanding the behaviors that help others speak up.

Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders is co-founder of Traction, an organizational change consulting company, and holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Indiana Wesleyan University. Her research examines the relationship between emotional intelligence and patterns of team contribution, building on her experience as a CEO, board member, program director, author, and educator.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How emotional intelligence affects the way people contribute within teams
• Why employees with strong judgment still need environments where they can speak up
• How leaders can encourage constructive challenge instead of passive agreement
• Why the best ideas often come from people without the final decision-making authority
• What emotionally intelligent teams do differently when solving problems

Episode References 

Robert Kelley, Power of Followership 

Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower

Daniel Goleman, Emotional Intelligence

Barbara Kellerman, Followership

Connect with Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders

Traction, an organizational change consulting company

Research Gate Scholarship Page

Amazon author page

Faith and Fellowship Book Festival

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/leading-in-human-services-why-listening-changes-outcomes-grace-wright/

In human services, leadership begins with understanding people — their needs, their experiences, and the perspectives they bring to a team. Grace Wright shares how her work in hunger relief and community services has shaped her belief that effective leaders must stay curious, listen carefully, and recognize the influence each person has in creating solutions.

Grace Wright is board president of the Euclid Hunger Center and community resource manager at University Settlement, a social service agency serving Cleveland’s Slavic Village neighborhood. She has spent 12 years working in hunger relief services, managing hunger centers throughout Greater Cleveland, and holds degrees in social work, nonprofit management, and an MBA from John Carroll University.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why listening is one of the most important skills for nonprofit leaders
• How community service work changes the way people think about leadership
• Why assumptions about people’s intentions can limit effective teamwork
• How leaders can adapt their approach as teams and circumstances change
• What human-centered leadership looks like in mission-driven organizations

University Settlement
www.universitysettlement.net

Euclid Hunger Center
www.euclidhungercenter.com

Tango Video
Leadership and Followership: What Tango Teaches Us About These Roles in Life

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support