Lead & Follow

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-ordinary-people-influence-leaders-through-collective-action-yulia-tolstikov-mast/

Can people without formal authority influence the decisions of powerful leaders? Dr. Yulia Tolstikov-Mast explores how collective action, shared values, and individual choices can shape outcomes far beyond traditional leadership structures. Using examples of global movements—including how messages initiated by groups such as soccer players can be amplified into broader social change—Yulia examines why influence does not only flow from the top down.

Yulia Tolstikov-Mast, Ph.D., is a global leadership and followership scholar, award-winning researcher, and educator. Her work explores global citizenship behaviors, non-Western approaches to leadership, leader–contributor role switching, and how cultural contexts shape the way people participate in collective efforts. She is the editor of The Handbook of International and Cross-Cultural Leadership Research Processes and served as Co-Investigator in Russia for the GLOBE 2020 Research Project.

You’ll learn:

• How people without formal authority can influence leaders and institutions 
• Why collective action becomes powerful when individuals amplify shared messages 
• What it means to see yourself as an active participant in global communities 
• How culture shapes ideas about leadership, influence, and participation 
• Why organizations and societies need engaged contributors, not passive supporters 

Episode References

Tolstikov-Mast, Y. (2016). Global followership: The launch of the scholarly journey. In J. S. Osland, M. Li, & Y. Want (Eds.), Advances in Global Leadership (Vol. 9, pp. 109-150). Bingley, UK: Emerald.

Tolstikov-Mast, Y., & Aghajanian, C. (2023). Intersectional approach to combating human trafficking: Applying an Interdisciplinary Global Leader-Follower Collaboration Paradigm. In: Dhiman, S.K., Marques, J., Schmieder-Ramirez, J., Malakyan, P.G. (eds) Handbook of Global Leadership and Followership. Springer.
https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-75831-8_38-1

"What is Global Leadership?"
https://blog.utc.edu/mark-mendenhall/files/2015/05/World-Financial-Review_What-is-Global-Leadership.pdf

"10 socially-conscious players who showed footballers don’t need to 'stick to sport'"
https://www.squawka.com/en/socially-conscious-footballers-dont-need-to-stick-to-sport/

Title IX Company
https://www.titlenine.com/who-we-are.html

Mighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War, by Leymah Gbowee
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Be-Our-Powers-Sisterhood/dp/0984295194 

National Whistleblower Center
https://www.whistleblowers.org/how-whistleblowers-changed-the-world/

 Global Followership Conference
www.followershipconference.com

*
Connect with Yulia Tolstikov-Mast
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yulia-tolstikov-mast-ph-d-b8b18611/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/navigating-ethical-dilemmas-at-work-kyle-payne/

Most of us like to believe we'd make the ethical choice. But in the moment, competing pressures—loyalty, fear of consequences, career ambitions, or uncertainty about what's right—can make ethical decisions far more complicated than they appear. In this episode, Sharna talks with Dr. Kyle Payne about why good people sometimes stay silent, what makes it difficult to challenge authority, and how individuals can respond with integrity when faced with questionable decisions or behavior.

Kyle works in technical services at the American Welding Society, teaches in the Heller College of Business at Roosevelt University, and supports clients with Development Dimensions International and his own consultancy, Quality Culture. He has a PhD in human capital management and master’s degrees in philosophy, education, and business. 

You'll learn:

• Why ethical dilemmas at work are often more complicated than they seem
• The barriers that keep people from speaking up
• How employees can influence ethical leadership without formal authority
• Strategies for responding to difficult situations 
• Why creating ethical organizations is a shared responsibility—not just a leader's job

Research References 

• Mary Uhl-Bien, Ronald E. Riggio, Kevin B. Lowe, Melissa K. Carsten. Followership theory: A review and research agenda. The Leadership Quarterly, Volume 25, Issue 1, 2014, Pages 83-104.
•  Carsten, M. K., & Uhl-Bien, M. (2013). Ethical Followership: An Examination of Followership Beliefs and Crimes of Obedience. Journal of Leadership & Organizational Studies, 20(1), 49-61.
•  Chaleff, I. (2009). The courageous follower: Standing up to and for our leaders (3rd ed.). Berret-Koehler Publishers.
• Hernandez, M., & Sitkin, S. B. (2012). Who is leading the leader? Follower influence on leader ethicality. In D. D. Cremer, & A. E. Tenbrunsel (Eds.), Behavioral business ethics: Shaping an emerging field (pp. 81-104). Routledge. 
• Kassing, J. (2011). Dissent in organizations. Polity Press.
• Payne, Kyle (2024) "“Making Room for Followers: A Grounded Theory Study of Ethical Followership Among Professional Engineers”," The International Journal of Ethical Leadership: Vol. 11, Article 6.

Other References 

• Kasia Urbaniak, Unbound
•  S1 E8: How Courageous Followers can stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales
•  Global Followership Conference

Connect with Dr. Kyle Payne:

 Website: http://www.kylepaynephd.com

 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-payne-phd-98567b50/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/season-3-preview-sharna-fabiano/

Hi Everyone, this is Sharna. I’ve spent the beginning of the year in a resting phase with the podcast, letting the new season slowly take shape in my mind. New episodes are coming soon, in early March, and I’m hoping this little preview will give you a sense of how I’m thinking about season 3 as a collection of conversations.

*
Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden
The Ezra Klein Show
 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democrats-have-a-better-option-than-biden/id1548604447?i=1000645559771

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/three-compelling-ideas-for-2024-sharna-fabiano/

In this short, end-of year episode, host Sharna Fabiano reflects on season 2 and shares three  compelling lead and follow ideas to try out in your own life and work in 2024. Please send feedback on Season 2 along with suggestions for Season 3 directly to Sharna at [email protected].

Special thanks to Glover Gill for providing our music.

Lead & Follow, by Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/book/

The FREE Lead & Follow  Skill Sheet
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/book/

Unbound: A Woman's Guide to Power, by Kasia Urbaniak
https://www.kasiaurbaniak.com/unbound-book

S1 E 23: The Necessity of Followership in Peace Building – Pedro Portela
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/10291927-the-necessity-of-followership-in-peace-building-pedro-portela

S1 E12: Followership Skills as Part of Professional Development - Brian Rook
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9075187-followership-skills-as-part-of-professional-development-brian-rook

S1 E8: Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/8716279-courageous-followers-can-stop-destructive-leadership-alain-de-sales

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/toxic-workplace-culture-why-people-follow-bad-leaders-and-how-to-change-it-wendy-m-edmonds/

Why do people continue supporting harmful leaders, even when they recognize destructive behavior? Dr. Wendy M. Edmonds explores toxic followership—the repeated choices and behaviors that allow damaging leadership patterns to continue. Her research challenges the idea that only leaders create organizational problems and reveals how people at every level can recognize and use their own power to influence what happens next.

Dr. Wendy M. Edmonds is Interim Chair of the Management, Marketing, and Public Administration Department in the College of Business at a Historically Black University and Co-Chair of the Global Followership Conference 2024. An internationally recognized researcher on toxic followership, she describes herself as a Workplace Toxicologist focused on understanding harmful patterns and creating more constructive ways of working together. Her teaching uses popular media and experiential role plays to help people examine leadership and followership choices.

You’ll learn:

• How toxic workplace cultures develop and continue over time 
• Why followers play a critical role in reinforcing or interrupting harmful leadership 
• How people can recognize their own power even without formal authority 
• What repeated destructive behavior reveals about toxic followership 
• How classroom conversations and role play can change the way people understand power and responsibility 

Episode References

CNN: Escape From Jonestown
https://vimeo.com/244066619

 
 S1 E8- Courageous Followers can Stop Destructive Leadership - Alain de Sales
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/8716279-courageous-followers-can-stop-destructive-leadership-alain-de-sales

 Time of Essence documentary - the story of Essence Magazine
https://www.oprah.com/app/time-of-essence-full-episodes.html

Intoxicating Followership, by Wendy M Edmonds
https://www.amazon.com/Intoxicating-Followership-Jonestown-Wendy-Edmonds/dp/1800714599

Global Followership Conference
http://www.followershipconference.com

Connect with Dr. Wendy M. Edmonds
https://www.drwendymedmonds.com/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/leading-under-pressure-how-the-british-army-uses-followership-to-build-better-teams-langley-sharp/

What makes a team effective when the stakes are high and there is no room for individual performance to overshadow the mission? Langley Sharp explains why the British Army is making followership more explicit in its leadership doctrine—and why successful command depends on people who can both take initiative and support others when needed.

Langley Sharp is the former head of the Centre for Army Leadership, where he championed leadership development across the British Army. A graduate of Sandhurst, he served for two decades in the Parachute Regiment, with operational deployments including Northern Ireland, Macedonia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. He is the author of The Habit of Excellence, the British Army’s official account of leadership, and founder of Frontier Leadership.

You’ll learn:

• Why mission command depends on people who can lead and follow effectively 
• How high-performing teams know when roles should shift between leading and supporting 
• Why individual excellence is not enough for complex missions 
• What military organizations can teach businesses about trust and decision-making 
• How making followership explicit changes leadership training and culture 

 
Episode References

> Langley Sharp, The Habit of Excellence

> British Army Doctrine Note on Followership

> Centre for Army Leadership Conference 2023 - Creating Effective Followership

“Freedom, however, is not the last word. Freedom is only part of the story and half of the truth. Freedom is but the negative aspect of the whole phenomenon whose positive aspect is responsibleness. In fact, freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness.”
–Frankl. V.E. (1992). Man’s Search for Meaning, 4th edition. Boston: Beacon Press, 134.

Kelley R.E., The Power of Followership: How to Create Leaders People Want to Follow and Followers Who Lead Themselves, New York: Doubleday, 1992

Chaleff, I. (1995). The courageous follower: Standing up to and for our leaders. San Francisco: Berrett-Koehler Publishers.

"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.”
–Rudyard Kipling, The Jungle Book

Connect with Langley Sharp

https://frontierleadership.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/langley-sharp/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/how-to-develop-frontline-leaders-who-solve-problems-without-waiting-for-answers-david-elser/

What happens when experienced employees have the knowledge to solve problems, but organizational habits teach them to wait for direction? David Elser draws from more than 30 years in the transportation industry to explore how leaders can step back at the right moments and create space for employees — from frontline workers to executives — to contribute solutions.

David Elser, author of Doing the Chores, shares his concept of smart followership through personal stories of growing up on a small family farm in northwest Ohio. He is a learning and development professional based in Coldwater Lake, Michigan, with over 30 years of experience in the transportation industry. He works with employees at all levels, from essential front-line workers to executive leaders. David has a master's degree in organizational management and is a Certified Professional Coach.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to develop employee initiative in frontline teams
• Why effective delegation requires leaders to step back sometimes
• How talent development programs can teach employees to provide meaningful support
• What supervisors can do to help employees become better problem-solvers
• How leaders can balance giving direction with creating ownership

Episode References

Shirtless Dancing Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ

Trust, Followership, and Leadership in Non-Profit Change Processes - Tom Klaus
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9340458-trust-followership-and-leadership-in-non-profit-change-processes-tom-klaus

Training Everyone in Both Leadership and Followership – Samantha Hurwitz
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13325495-training-everyone-in-both-leadership-and-followership-samantha-hurwitz

 HR Perspective on Followership and Leadership Training - Julie Newman
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13364704-hr-perspective-on-followership-and-leadership-training-julie-newman

Connect with David Elser

Doing the Chores Website
https://doingthechores.com

Doing the Chores Book (adults)
https://a.co/d/esqqdoS

Doing the Chores Book (kids)
https://a.co/d/9QvryVq

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/FollowSmart

LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-r-elser-5a17655
 

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/use-your-voice-how-informal-leaders-shape-better-decisions-david-scott/

Who gets recognized as a leader inside an organization — only the people with executive titles, or also the employees who influence decisions, shape culture, and move a purpose forward? David Scott explores how organizations can identify and value informal leadership, drawing from his research on how leadership emerges beyond formal roles.

David Scott is a PhD Researcher at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, Scotland, exploring Followership Salience as a factor of Leadership in Organisations. He is also a Visiting Lecturer in Business at Leeds Trinity University. David is a highly experienced Company Director and Charity Trustee with a particular interest in creating positive environmental and social change through people. He is Co-Chair of the 2024 Global Followership Conference hosted by the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How organizations can identify leadership potential beyond job titles
• Why employee voice matters when making strategic decisions
• How informal leaders can influence executive teams and boards
• What inclusive leadership structures can learn from UN Sustainable Development Goals
• Why stepping into a supporting role can strengthen your ability to lead

Episode References

Jimmy Collins, Creative Followership
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Followership-Greatness-Jimmy-Collins/dp/1929619480

Philip Meilinger, “The 10 Rules of Good Followership”
https://engineeringmanagementinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/10_Followship_Rules_Meilinger.pdf

Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower: Standing up To and For our Leaders
https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738

Edmonstone, J. (2003), "Learning and development in action learning: the energy investment model", Industrial and Commercial Training, Vol. 35 No. 1, pp. 26-28.

Mango, E. (2018) 'Rethinking Leadership Theories'. Open Journal of Leadership, 7 (01), pp. 57-88.

Barbara Kellerman
https://barbarakellerman.com/

Julian B. Rotter, Locus of Control
https://www.simplypsychology.org/locus-of-control.html

Connect with David Scott
https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhunterscott/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/the-surprisingly-intuitive-nature-of-self-organizing-teams-christian-mono/

For thousands of years, humans organized in small groups where influence emerged through trust, shared purpose, and expertise rather than formal authority. Christian Monö explores what modern organizations can learn from these patterns — and why creating more freedom inside teams may lead to stronger decision-making and ownership.

Christian Monö is a Speaker, Author and Sweden’s first and only followership expert. In more than 15 years of research and practice, he has explored what he calls “natural followership,” including how human ancestors self-organized in egalitarian band societies and what these lessons reveal about today’s leadership industry. Among Chris’ clients are the Swedish Armed Forces, and he has a new book coming out in English in 2024.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How self-organizing teams make decisions without constant direction from a manager
• Why employees resist environments where they feel they lack autonomy
• What ancient human group behavior reveals about modern organizations
• How leaders can create conditions where initiative emerges naturally
• Why shared purpose can sometimes guide teams more effectively than top-down vision 
  
  

Episode References

Robert Kelley, Power of Followership

Valve Software
https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/

 Buurtzorg
https://www.buurtzorg.com/
https://www.theguardian.com/social-care-network/2017/may/09/buurtzorg-dutch-model-neighbourhood-care

 Björn Lundén Information
https://bjornlundenblogg.se/sv/mina-bocker/2021/10/sim-metoden/

Connect with Chris Monö

Website - https://www.followership.se/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-monoe/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/followership.se/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Send Fan Mail by Text!

Full transcript and show notes: https://www.sharnafabiano.com/2026/07/29/student-leadership-development-teaching-ethical-decision-making-fatema-haque-and-dorine-lawrence-hughes/

Most leadership education focuses on how to become a leader. Fatema Haque and Dorine Lawrence-Hughes explore what happens when students are also taught how to participate responsibly in groups, make independent choices, and hold leaders accountable. Through their work at the University of Michigan, they are introducing students to a broader understanding of leadership that includes agency, critical thinking, and ethical action.

Fatema Haque is Academic Program Manager and LEO Adjunct Lecturer at the Barger Leadership Institute at the University of Michigan. Dorine Lawrence-Hughes is Assistant Dean of Undergraduate Education at the University of Michigan. Together, they are involved in integrating followership education into the Barger Leadership Institute curriculum to prepare students for professional and community environments where collaboration, accountability, and judgment matter.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why leadership programs need to teach students how to question and support decisions
• How student agency changes the way young people approach group work
• What ethical participation looks like before someone holds formal authority
• How universities can prepare students for real-world teamwork and decision-making
• Why students often find the idea of responsible participation surprisingly powerful

Episode Resources 

Barger Leadership Institute, University of Michigan
https://lsa.umich.edu/bli

Barbara Kellerman, Bad Leadership
https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Leadership-Happens-Matters-Common/dp/1591391660

Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower
https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Follower-Standing-Our-Leaders/dp/1605092738

Basil Read, Read & Read Leadership and Management Consultants, LLC
https://www.read-read.com/

Marc and Samantha Hurwitz, Leadership is Half the Story
http://www.teachingfollowerscourage.com

Brazen Communication
https://brazencommunication.com/

Support the show

*
Sharna Fabiano is the author of Lead & Follow: The Dance of Inspired Teamwork and host of the Lead & Follow Podcast. She helps founders, solopreneurs, and new leaders build strong collaborative relationships and successful teams. 

Get a discounted coach session with Sharna with promo code PODCAST
https://www.sharnafabiano.com/coaching/

Order the book: Lead & Follow
https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/

Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support