Leadership In Law: Growth & Leadership for Law Firm Owners

Your firm can be busy, profitable, and still stuck and the reason is usually leadership design, not legal skill. We sit down with Kyle Harbaugh, founder of Chief GO Officers LLC, to unpack what actually slows down decision making as a law firm grows, why owners hit “decision fatigue,” and how shared leadership creates operational leverage without losing quality or culture.

We dig into what Kyle looks for when he assesses a practice across the core drivers of growth, from profitability and risk management to recruiting, retention, operations, sales process, and technology. You’ll hear a clear way to separate true scaling opportunities from “more work,” including a practical 80/20 mindset for finding the clients and matters that produce the best outcomes with the least drag. We also talk about meetings and communication systems that keep teams aligned as headcount rises and complexity multiplies.

AI for law firms shows up here in a grounded way: not chasing tools for novelty, but using AI-powered decision making to hire faster and smarter and to get visibility into what’s really happening inside the business. We also cover what tends to break after a merger or acquisition, how to stabilize post-deal integration, and why exit planning should start years earlier than most attorneys think.

Reach Kyle here:
https://www.chiefgoofficers.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@Chief_GO_Officers
https://www.linkedin.com/company/chief-go-officers-llc/posts/?feedView=all&viewAsMember=true

Season 4 Episode 183

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
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Your team can hit targets and still be quietly falling apart. That’s why this conversation with Hanna Bauer, founder and CEO of HEARTnomics™, lands so hard for law firm leaders who feel the strain of burnout, misalignment, and constant change. We talk about a leadership approach that treats trust, alignment, and resilience as real drivers of results, not feel-good extras, and Hannah shares how her own story of surviving childhood heart disease shaped her view of what sustainable excellence actually requires. 

We unpack the tension many managing partners and practice leaders feel: bringing empathy into the workplace without lowering the bar. Hanna makes a clear case that love does not mean soft standards. It means building the rapport and safety that help people commit, communicate, and perform. We dig into why process improvement and change management fail when leaders skip the human layer, even when the data is right and the plan is logical. If you’re navigating remote teams, AI disruption, and economic uncertainty, this is a practical roadmap for keeping performance high without grinding people down. 

We also get specific about rebuilding trust after it’s been damaged. Hanna shares what leaders should measure, the common moments where trust quietly breaks, and why “we need a better culture” is not a repair strategy. Then we go deep on alignment, the leadership skill she believes we’ve historically overlooked, including how to protect nonnegotiables, build margin into your operating rhythm, and stay internally aligned so service to your team doesn’t become self-sacrifice. 

Reach Hanna here:
https://www.HEARTnomics.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bauerhanna/
https://www.instagram.com/hannabauer777/
https://facebook.com/hannad.bauer
https://www.youtube.com/@heartnomics
https://www.linkedin.com/company/heartnomics/

Season 4 Episode 182

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Persuasion gets talked about like it’s pure logic, but most of us know the truth from experience: the harder you push, the harder people push back. Marilyn Jenkins sits down with psychologist and behavioral scientist Dr. JonRobert, founder of Influence 51, to unpack what actually changes minds and why smart communicators focus on psychology before they focus on proof. We dig into psychological reactance, the “anti-coercion” response that shows up everywhere from negotiations to jury deliberations, and why persuasion is often an access problem, not an argument problem. 

We also get practical about courtroom communication and jury decision making. Dr. JonRobert explains why jurors tend to reward the side that builds the most coherent causal story, not just the side with the biggest stack of facts. We break down narrative transportation theory, self-generated persuasion, and a simple two-question technique that helps people talk themselves into the conclusion you want without feeling forced. If you care about trial strategy, witness exams, openings, or closings, you’ll hear how small shifts in message framing can create outsized shifts in verdicts. 

Then we look at the future: AI and behavioral science. AI can generate persuasive content quickly, but Dr. JonRobert argues humans still have the edge in social dynamics like reading the room, adjusting mid-argument, and using humility instead of fake certainty. We wrap with a powerful reminder for lawyers, leaders, and legal marketers: less arguing, more curiosity, plus the right balance of competence and warmth to earn real trust. 

Reach Dr. JonRobert here:
https://www.influence51.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonrobert-tartaglione-ph-d-21b26770/

Season 4 Episode 181

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Doubt has a way of sneaking into high-performing careers and then acting like it owns the place. One day you are leading a team, arguing a case, or scaling your firm, and the next day you are hearing that quiet voice saying, “You are not ready,” “You do not belong here,” or “Do not risk it.” We sit down with leadership coach and author Stan Lewis to name that voice for what it is: a squatter living rent-free in your mind, and we talk about how to evict it with clear, repeatable habits.

Stan shares stories from his time in the Navy, law enforcement, federal investigations, and hundreds of mediations to show how self-doubt and imposter syndrome show up at every level, including seasoned executives. We dig into his vantage point shift framework for moving beyond comfort zones, plus practical communication tools like DISC behavioral styles and a listening hierarchy that helps you stop talking at people and start connecting with them. If you lead in a law firm, a legal department, or any high-stakes environment, these are the skills that tighten culture, reduce conflict, and improve decision-making under pressure.

We also unpack the “1% reality” idea: most workplace drama is noise, and progress speeds up when you identify the real issue and coach people toward solutions. Stan explains why accountability structures and mentorship make change stick, and why recognition is more than “nice,” it is a performance multiplier. 

Reach Stan here:

Doubt Detox Worksheet Value Add for your audience: https://links.nwardjourney.com/widget/form/9Yzt26GcgQP2LwrdcCwR?notrack=true

https://www.stanlewis.net/home

Get his book and bonuses: https://go.nwardjourney.com/starter-bundle-page-page

Season 4 Episode 180

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

If your law firm feels busy but brittle, like one missed deadline or one tough personality could tip the whole place into stress, you’re not alone. I’m joined by Tara Jalali Malek, co-owner at Malek + Malek, and a former federal and state prosecutor, to talk about what actually makes a firm strong: culture you can feel, leadership you can measure, and systems that turn talented attorneys into a real team. 

We dig into why mentorship matters so much in the legal profession, especially when the billable hour makes “unbillable time” feel impossible to justify. Tara shares how new lawyers often experience overwhelm and imposter syndrome, and why psychological safety is not a soft concept, it directly impacts thinking, problem-solving, and client work product. We also talk compensation and the hidden damage of the eat what you kill model, plus what changes when you design incentives for collaboration instead of internal competition. 

You’ll hear how Tara’s firm keeps four offices aligned using practical legal practice management tools: internal messaging, case-based channels, an attorney-wide space to brainstorm hard issues, and a weekly all-hands meeting that starts with kudos and gratitude. We also get specific about measuring culture through anonymous internal surveys and using the data to improve morale, retention, and performance. Finally, Tara shares what she hopes young lawyers experience differently, including stronger parental leave policies and a more supportive, sustainable model for law firm leadership. 

Reach Tara here:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tara-jalali-malek-14491820/

https://www.malekattorneys.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/malekattorneys/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/malekat

Season 4 Episode 179

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Your product roadmap can look perfect on paper while your engineering team quietly grinds to a halt. When that happens, the issue is rarely “lazy developers” or “bad attitudes” it’s usually overload, unclear priorities, and a business engineering communication gap that makes every request feel like an emergency.

We sit down with Thanos Diacakis, a software leader with nearly 30 years of experience across startups and tech giants, to unpack what actually helps teams ship high-quality software faster. We talk about why business leaders and engineers often lack a shared language, how to create healthy conflict instead of feature-factory pressure, and why the fastest teams often win by doing less at once. Thanos shares a clear four-step framework for aligning product goals with engineering practices: shorten the path to production, build quality into the system, manage complexity as you scale, then earn planning and predictability.

We also challenge common myths around Agile, speed vs quality, and technical debt. You’ll hear why manual “quality gates” can backfire, how automation and CI/CD tighten feedback loops, and why technical debt is better understood as compounding investment. Thanos explains when ditching sprints for Kanban can reduce meeting overhead, how a simple 10% investment rule can produce dramatic improvements, and what leadership habits prevent burnout in high-performing engineering teams. He also shares where to find him on LinkedIn, his site cosmicteacups.com, and his Team Metrics tool for visualizing features, bugs, and investment work over time.

Reach Thanos here: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thanosd/
https://www.cosmicteacups.com/
https://Team-metrics.dev

Season 4 Episode 178

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Some cases are “legal” on paper, but pure emotion in real life and that’s where leadership either shows up or falls apart. We sat down with Matthew Bourque, managing partner at RMO LLP in Dallas and Houston, to talk about what it takes to lead clients and teams through high-conflict, high-stakes work like contested probate, trust litigation, guardianship disputes, and fiduciary litigation. If you’ve ever felt like law school trained your brain but didn’t train your people skills, you’ll recognize a lot of what Matthew shares.

We get into what empathy-first advocacy looks like when families are dealing with loss, diminished capacity, Alzheimer’s or dementia, and even allegations of financial elder abuse or inheritance theft. Matthew breaks down “technical empathy” and emotional intelligence in a way that’s practical: how to validate what someone feels, name the underlying concern, and still move the conversation toward the best legal outcome without fueling more conflict.

We also zoom out to law firm leadership and mentorship. Matthew explains why great litigators are great problem solvers, why clients need a 360-degree view beyond just “winning,” and how leaders can strengthen culture and performance by consistently explaining the why behind the work. You’ll also hear common misconceptions about contested probate and what this practice area really does: help people get closure and move on.

Reach Matt here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-bourque-1256043/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/rmo-rahn-muntz-o'grady-llp/
https://rmolawyers.com/

Season 4 Episode 186

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Your divorce, your business, and your online life are not separate anymore and pretending they are can cost you real money. We sit down with Evan Turk, a family law attorney known for complex, high-stakes divorce and asset protection work, to talk about the decisions that quietly wreck settlements and the habits that keep entrepreneurs exposed when relationships break down.

We unpack the biggest financial mistakes people make before and during divorce, why “being reasonable” can turn into negotiating against your own future, and how a good lawyer often has to translate both law and finance under intense emotion. Evan also shares how he helps business owners reduce risk with proactive planning, from operating agreements and bylaws to employment contracts, partner disputes, and key person considerations. If you have equity, cash flow, or a brand to protect, this is a practical look at wealth preservation through clear documents and better decisions.

Then the conversation widens to civil liberties and the First Amendment through Evan’s nonprofit, the American Rights Alliance. We talk polarization, government overreach, and why selective prosecution and disproportionate sentencing worry him, even when the defendant is unpopular. You will also hear why social media surveillance and digital evidence have reshaped family law litigation, turning “highlight reels” into courtroom contradictions.

Reach Evan here: 
https://www.americanrightsalliance.org/
https://www.turklawgroup.com

Season 4 Episode 177

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Scaling a business is hard enough. Scaling it with the wrong partners, a messy cap table, and handshake governance can quietly set you up for a blowup later. We talk with Albert Lin, Chief Investment Officer at Northview Law and founder of dCarbon VC, about what he learned moving from corporate M&A to private equity and then into the operator seat building a growing firm designed to serve secondary and tertiary markets where quality professional services are in short supply.

Albert shares a clear framework for evaluating opportunities and risk using both legal and investor discipline: how to spot when your team structure no longer matches your stage, why many founders hire the wrong financial leadership too early, and how to think about runway and fundraising timing. From vesting schedules to good leaver and bad leaver clauses, we get specific about the tools that keep incentives aligned as the business evolves.

We also dig into the most expensive early mistakes founders make: skipping a real shareholder agreement, relying on “tribal council” decision making, and ignoring dispute resolution, liquidity terms, and life-event scenarios like death, divorce, or disability. If you are thinking about an eventual exit, Albert lays out three practical levers that drive business valuation: professionalizing operations so the company runs without you, building credible growth wedges with proof points, and starting tax planning years in advance.

Reach Albert here:
https://www.northviewlaw.com/contact

Season 4 Episode 176

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Your office might be costing you far more than rent, and not because it’s “too big” in a simple way. The real leak is uncertainty: partners and leadership teams making high-stakes decisions about space, staffing, and hybrid policies without reliable workplace utilization data. I sit down with Australian entrepreneur and advisor Christopher Burke, founder of Brickendon Consulting and the workplace platform HybridHero, to unpack what law firm leaders are missing and how to fix it.

We dig into the hidden cost of underused desks, meeting rooms, and floors, plus the operational drag that shows up when people waste time hunting for a workspace or routing every request through an EA. Chris explains how most firms are still guessing, why that breaks down fast as you scale across multiple locations, and how a single view of your real estate footprint can reveal quick wins. We also talk through what “good” hybrid management looks like in practice: clear goals, consistent one-to-ones, mentorship for junior attorneys, and policies you can actually measure rather than assume.

Chris shares concrete examples like heat maps, “no data” black holes, and how swipe-card signals can connect to workplace planning without turning the firm into a time clock. We even zoom out to the next five years, including a sharp reality check on AI, training, and why culture still needs intentional in-person time.

Reach Chris here: https://hybridhero.com/podcasts/

Season 4 Episode 175

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins