Leadership In Law: Growth & Leadership for Law Firm Owners

A packed calendar can still hide a serious revenue leak: consults that never convert because the client is deeply undecided. We sit down with Dr. Merideth Thompson, a negotiation professor, work-life researcher, and the founder of Partner Lab, to name that leak and measure its impact. She calls it the “ambivalence tax” and for family law firms it shows up as wasted consultations, retainer reversals, emotional labor, and rising burnout across attorneys and intake teams. 

We get practical about what ambivalence looks like in real life: intense emotional dysregulation, unclear post-divorce plans, attorney shopping for validation, and the impossible demand for “emotional justice” through a legal process. Then we shift to solutions, including Retensio, a research-driven divorce readiness assessment that can be embedded into your law firm intake workflow. The goal is not to pressure people, but to bring structure and behavioral data into a moment that usually runs on chaos and gut feel. 

We also tackle ethical gatekeeping, why lawyers should not be the ones deciding “should you divorce,” and how better qualification protects client agency while freeing attorneys from playing therapist. Dr. Merideth shares why highly intelligent people can overthink emotionally charged choices, how personality dynamics can shape negotiation strategy, and why firms that help clients get clarity build a stronger reputation and a long-term referral engine. Subscribe, share this with a firm owner who needs it, and leave a review so more lawyers can find smarter ways to grow.

Reach Merideth here: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/merideth-j-thompson/
https://mypartnerlab.co

Season 4 Episode 173

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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The billable hour wasn’t designed for the way businesses buy legal help today, and clients feel it every time a routine request turns into an expensive, slow, hard to implement deliverable. We sit down with Brian Elliott, a longtime general counsel and legal tech founder, to map what’s breaking in the traditional law firm model and what replaces it when legal services start looking more like infrastructure: scalable, reliable, and quietly embedded in day to day operations.

We dig into why so much legal work is repeatable and measurable, from contract review to standard negotiations, and how that reality supports pricing and delivery models built around outcomes. Brian explains what “embedded legal services” look like in practice, including how playbooks, templates, and fallback positions can be packaged so business teams can execute without stopping everything to call outside counsel. The goal is not just simpler advice, but guidance that is ready to implement.

Then we get practical about legal AI. Instead of only building tools that help lawyers do what they already do, Brian argues for tools that help clients do some of that work safely while escalating the right issues to human experts. We explore “judgment layers” that sit on top of systems like ChatGPT or Claude, plus the decision ledger habit that turns senior level legal judgment into structured data, checklists, and heuristics an AI can follow. We also talk proactive agents like dispute sentinels and regulatory monitoring that can surface risk before it becomes a legal fire drill.

Reach Brian here: 
https://www.elliott.law/
https://www.calefirm.com/
https://www.5point4.com/
@lawasinfrastructure on Substack

Season 4 Episode 172

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Your law firm may be bleeding retirement dollars without a single obvious warning sign. No invoice. No line item in your operating expenses. Just quiet, recurring 401(k) fees pulled from participant accounts month after month, year after year. I’m joined by forensic 401(k) consultant Paul Sippil, who has spent 17 years analyzing public retirement plan filings and documenting what he believes are widespread excessive charges hiding in plain sight. 

We dig into the “irony problem” that hits professional services especially hard: partners often hold the biggest balances, and many plans allocate fees in proportion to assets, meaning the people running the plan can end up paying the most, personally, using non-deductible dollars inside tax-advantaged accounts. Paul explains why standard fee disclosures (including 408(b)(2) and 404a-5) still leave sponsors confused, how the lack of a true invoice kills normal price pressure, and what services you’re actually paying for across recordkeeping, administration, custody, and advisory fees. 

We also get concrete about what to do next: where to look on Form 5500 for aggregated plan charges, how and when fees are negotiable, why asset-based pricing can become brutal as plan assets grow, and how certain structures including the American Bar Association retirement program options may help firms reduce revenue sharing and recurring service costs. 

Reach Paul here: 
https://www.paulsippil.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-sippil-5141a47
https://youtube.com/@paulsippil 

Season 4 Episode 171

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Negotiation gets painted as pressure, conflict, and “winning” at all costs but that mindset quietly costs law firm owners money, time, and relationships. Marilyn Jenkins sits down with attorney, speaker, and negotiation expert Lynn Price, who has negotiated more than 11,000 agreements, to share a repeatable way to handle high-stakes conversations without getting reactive or giving away leverage.

We walk through Lynn’s practical “3 R’s” framework for contract negotiation and everyday leadership talks: be ready (do the due diligence, know your priorities, and define what you can trade), be relatable (build authentic connection so people actually want to work with you), and be reasonable (get creative without becoming a doormat). Lynn also breaks down her three-bucket method: have to haves, helpful haves, and hopeful haves, a simple tool that makes negotiations clearer and faster for attorneys dealing with clients, vendors, landlords, or firm hires.

One of the most useful moments is the silence strategy: make the ask, stop talking, and don’t negotiate against yourself just to fill an awkward pause. We also talk about building your “negotiation muscle” through practice out loud and low-stakes reps, plus why being a resource instead of a roadblock reduces risk and prevents disputes before they turn into litigation.

Reach Lynn here: 
https://www.lynnpriceconsulting.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Negotiate-Develop-Negotiation-Muscle-Workplace-ebook/dp/B07L3YC4MY

Season 4 Episode 170 

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

AI is no longer just a tool people use. It’s becoming the reader that interprets your website, your profiles, and your reputation, then decides whether to cite you, include you, or recommend you as the choice. That’s why this conversation with technologist and system architect Jason Wade hits differently: we’re not talking theory, we’re talking what actually makes a law firm visible as search shifts toward Google Overviews, Gemini, and ChatGPT style answers.

We get honest about the confusing wave of acronyms like AI SEO, GEO (generative engine optimization), and AEO (answer engine optimization), then boil it down to what matters: authority signals and “entity engineering.” If your founder story is trapped in a thin bio, if your About page reads like a resume, or if your online presence looks inconsistent across LinkedIn, directories, and your website, AI will struggle to understand who you are and why you’re credible. We also dig into how Google algorithm updates keep changing the rules and why long form cornerstone content, clear site structure, and a hub and spoke approach can lift results fast while building durable trust.

You’ll also hear practical tips attorneys can start today, like using voice notes to create a compelling bio without overthinking it, writing in clear language that real people understand, and building credibility assets like a short book or case studies that keep paying off in marketing. 

Reach Jason here: 
ninjaai.com
aimainstreetspodcast.com

Season 4 Episode 169

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

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#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

If your negotiation style “works” but leaves everyone tense, resentful, or exhausted, it’s costing you more than you think. We sit down with Arlene Cohen Miller, an AV Preeminent ® Rated Attorney, ICF-certified professional coach, and CEO of Jewel Consultancy, to unpack what real executive presence looks like in the legal world and why it’s the fastest path to trust when conversations get hard. 

We get practical about negotiation skills for lawyers that aren’t taught in law school: active listening as a trainable skill, asking open questions that surface the real bottom line, and using reflection to help people feel seen and understood. Arlene explains how “win at all costs” can damage long-term client relationships, referral networks, and your reputation with other attorneys you will absolutely meet again. We also talk about emotional intelligence in leadership, staying steady under pressure, and how boundaries protect your time, energy, and integrity without turning you into someone you’re not. 

We also zoom out to law firm culture, psychological safety, and associate retention. Arlene shares why one-time seminars rarely change behavior, what ongoing coaching and CLE-integrated practice can look like, and why turnover is so expensive that culture becomes a business strategy, not a perk. If you want to lead with courage, confidence, and calm assurance, this conversation gives you a clear place to start today. 

Reach Arlene here:
https://jewelconsultancy.com
https://www.instagram.com/jewelcoach2/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arlene-cohen-miller-jd-pcc-54435b59/
https://youtube.com/@arlenecmiller

Season 4 Episode 168

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Marriages do not usually fall apart in one dramatic moment. More often, they get quietly put on hold while life feels urgent: building a practice, chasing deadlines, raising kids, paying bills, and keeping everything moving. We sit down with Dr. Lee Baucom, a marriage coach and creator of the Save the Marriage System, to name that pattern clearly: the “pause button marriage” and the slow drift into disconnection that can leave two good people feeling like roommates. 

We dig into the practical framework Lee uses with thousands of couples worldwide, including the three levels of connection that tend to fade first: physical connection (loving touch beyond sex), emotional connection (feeling seen and supported), and spiritual connection (shared values, hopes, dreams, and fears). Once you can identify what is missing, you have clear targets for rebuilding, without trying to fix everything at once or forcing a big emotional “breakthrough” conversation that the relationship cannot hold yet. 

The most surprising takeaway is also the most hopeful: you do not need your spouse fully on board to start improving the marriage. Because a marriage is a system, one person can change their steps and shift the dance. We talk about signs the relationship is drifting, how resentment builds from unprocessed hurt, and how to stay motivated using values-based reasons that last longer than fear. Lee also shares simple daily habits, like consistent “one-way” connection texts, that rebuild trust over time. 

Reach Dr. Lee here: 
http://UnPauseYourMarriage.com
http://SaveTheMarriage.com

Season 4 Episode 167

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

The fastest way to lose your edge as a lawyer is to shrink your world down to a screen and a timesheet. We sit down with Mark Zauderer, a veteran New York trial and appellate lawyer known for high-stakes business and commercial litigation, to unpack what actually builds a lasting legal career: real training, real relationships, and the courage to bet on yourself.

Mark shares the leadership journey behind his book, “Counsel, The Courtroom Is Open,” including the moments that pushed him to finally write it, the formative experiences that shaped his confidence, and the practical reality of starting a boutique litigation firm with no money, no clients, and a whole lot of belief. We talk candidly about business development for lawyers the old-school way: bar associations, CLEs, community visibility, and becoming someone other lawyers trust with referrals.

We also dig into the harder questions law firm leaders wrestle with right now: how remote work changes mentorship, why billable hour pressure can warp incentives, and what gets lost when the “profession of law” starts acting like the “business of law.” Mark explains a simple but powerful boundary in legal ethics and client service, where client decisions end and lawyer judgment begins, then zooms out to justice as a human system for resolving conflict through courts, arbitration, and mediation.

Reach Mark here: 
https://www.markczauderer.com/
Book Mentioned: https://amzn.to/4unrLF6

Season 4 Episode 166

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Private aviation is often dismissed as a luxury, but Dave Coleman, president of Coleman Jet Solutions and a pilot with 35 years of experience, explains why many law firms view it as a strategic tool. We discuss how private flying can save time, improve productivity, and provide confidentiality while traveling.

Dave also breaks down which firms benefit most, covering use cases like trial travel, expanding into new markets, and reaching cities with limited airline access. He explains how different aircraft fit different missions and why choosing the right plane matters financially.

We also explore practical decisions like chartering versus ownership, what a proper feasibility study should include, and the common mistakes first-time buyers make. Dave shares why unbiased technical, financial, and regulatory guidance is essential before committing to aircraft access.

If you’re curious whether private jet charter or private aircraft ownership fits your firm, listen, share this with a partner, and leave a review so more law firm owners can find it.

Reach Dave here:
https://www.colemanjets.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-coleman-05730217/ 
https://twitter.com/ColemanJetSales 
https://www.facebook.com/Coleman-Jet-Solutions-100400065793228 

Season 4 Episode 165

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

For more than twenty years, legal marketing has revolved around one question: Where do I rank?

But something fundamental has shifted. Your future clients are no longer typing keywords into a search box and choosing from ten blue links. They're opening ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and Google AI, and simply asking who they should hire.

And here's the uncomfortable truth at the heart of this episode: your firm can have a beautiful website, strong rankings, and thousands of dollars in monthly marketing spend, and still be completely invisible the moment someone asks AI for a recommendation.

Marilyn has spent the last year studying exactly how AI decides which firms to recommend, running visibility audits for firms across the country, and testing what actually earns a firm a seat at the table in this new era.

What she's discovered should get every law firm owner's attention.

In this episode, Marilyn explores:

• Why AI is not just another search engine — and the critical distinction that explains why so many good firms are struggling to be found
• The one phrase that captures everything about this shift — and why it changes how you should look at your website starting today
• Why some of the most successful, established firms in their markets aren't being mentioned by AI even once — and what those firms are missing
• The difference between publishing content and building authority — and why one compounds while the other quietly expires
• The concept that Marilyn believes is the single most misunderstood idea in legal marketing right now — and why getting it right can transform your entire marketing ecosystem
• What happened to one firm's website traffic and AI visibility just weeks after implementing this approach (the numbers are worth hearing)
• Why the future may belong not to the firms with the biggest budgets — but to the firms willing to become the best teacher in their market
  
  

The bigger idea: This isn't about chasing another algorithm or learning another marketing hack. Algorithms change. Authority compounds. And the firms that commit to becoming the most trusted resource in their market won't just earn better rankings — they'll become the firms that both Google and AI recommend for years to come.

Whether you're building a firm you intend to run for decades or one you hope to sell someday, this conversation reframes your website, your content, and your marketing as something far more valuable than you may have realized: an asset that keeps working long after you've built it.

You will not look at your website the same way again.

A free resource for listeners:
Marilyn has created a practical checklist called "Five Things I Do For My Clients To Improve AI Visibility in Google AI and ChatGPT" — based on the real audits her team performs for law firms across the country. Download it completely free at 5things.lawmarketingzone.com.

Ready to build a law firm that's positioned to win — no matter how your clients search?
Your marketing is only one part of a truly wealth-generating law firm. To turn visibility into signed clients, and signed clients into a firm that runs and grows without consuming your life, you need the right strategy, systems, and support behind it.

Download Marilyn's free guide, "Five Things I Do For My Clients To Improve AI Visibility," at 5things.lawmarketingzone.com.

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins