In this episode of Leading Forward, hosts Nick Edwards and Jeremy Prather interview entrepreneur and investor Clarence Bethea. Clarence shares his powerful, redemptive life journey—from growing up on the streets of Decatur, Georgia, selling drugs and facing a 15-year prison sentence, to receiving a second chance from a compassionate judge. Guided by humility and an openness to learn, he transitioned into the corporate world under the mentorship of the CEO of Best Buy, eventually founding the successful technology startup Upsie and becoming a venture capitalist. Clarence breaks down key differences between the founder and investor sides of the table, details the true power of vulnerability, and explains his newest initiative, What VCs Won't Say.

Clarencebethea.com

In this episode of Leading Forward, hosts Nick and Jeremy sit down with Justin Wegner, entrepreneur and founder of Day41 Apparel. Justin shares his raw and deeply transparent journey from working as a web developer and graphic designer to launching a multi-million dollar apparel brand, originally called Backbone Swag, and pivoting it entirely by faith into Day41 Apparel.

The conversation focuses on the true reality of the entrepreneurial grind, navigating through personal and business setbacks (including the devastating impacts of COVID-19), the loneliness of leadership, and the power of radical transparency. Justin also uncovers the profound spiritual growth that occurs when a leader learns to surrender control, embrace a life of authentic prayer, and model resilience—showing his children that while a godly leader may fall, they never quit.

1. Introduction & Catching Up

• The Welcome: Opening Season 3's core objective: learning from other active leaders.
• Housekeeping: Encouraging listeners to like, subscribe, and share to amplify the episode's message.
• Introducing Justin Wegner: Meeting the entrepreneur, husband, and father behind Day41 Apparel.

2. Faith, Family, and Foundations

• A Submitted Life: Justin self-identifies simply as a sinner saved by grace working to actively share Jesus with others.
• Marriage Milestone: Navigating 20 years of marriage with his wife, who also steers the company as CFO.
• The Gift of Parenting: Paralleling the protective, loving relationship with his 12 and 9-year-old children to our divine relationship with God.
• Generational Legacy: Reflecting on the evolution of his relationship with his own father, and understanding the duty to stick through the difficult adolescent years.

3. The Birth of Backbone Swag & Pivoting by Faith

• Corporate Leap: Stepping away from web development and graphic design in 2018 to pursue full-time business ownership.
• The COVID Crisis: Facing crushing debt and initial instability just two years into his entrepreneurial journey.
• The $750 Leap: Selling 40 shirts out of their personal account deficit to start what would soon become a massive brand.
• Rapid Expansion: Exploding into a million-dollar brand by year two, pulling in six-figure months.
• The Definition of Insanity: Accepting a hard, gracious truth from a pastor friend about repeating cycles without real change.
• Climbing Two Ladders: Abandoning a booming corporate machine to step blindly into Day41 Apparel because a leader cannot climb the world's ladder and God's ladder at the exact same time.

4. The Strategic Reality of Modern Entrepreneurship

• The Meaning of 41: Commemorating biblical periods of testing (the number 40) and choosing to cross over into Day 41 instead of giving up hope.
• The Blueprint of Prayer: Demystifying polished, corporate prayers for simple, raw communication with God.
• The Sandpaper Principle: Understanding that a higher-grit crisis chisels you down into a smoother, more resilient leader.
• The Ultimate Flex: The wisdom in aging and developing an unshakeable network of reliable, trustworthy leaders.

5. Lightning Round: The Final Question

• The Classic "Dude" Movie: Justin selects the classic Western film Lonesome Dove for its values of grit, endurance, and unyielding friendship.
• Nick and Jeremy's Picks: Nick leans toward Tombstone and Gladiator, while Jeremy goes with Moneyball and Ford v Ferrari.

In this episode of the Leading Forward Podcast, host Nick Edwards kicks off Season 3 ("Learning from Leaders") by sitting down with Andrew Jones, a faith-driven entrepreneur and the owner of Abel Solutions.

Throughout the conversation, Andrew shares his journey from working a secure corporate job at Halliburton to leaping into the volatile world of entrepreneurship. Anchored deeply by his faith and family values, Andrew discusses the realities of running a business, the importance of maintaining an orderly household for professional success, and the continuous challenges of business succession. The core theme of the episode revolves around leading with integrity, executing under pressure, and understanding that true leadership is refined in life's difficult "valleys" rather than on its "mountain tops." Andrew challenges modern leaders to avoid the trap of lazy over-delegation and to actively "stand up if they want to stand out."

• The Refining Process: Andrew explains a philosophy that has guided him recently—true growth doesn’t happen on life's mountain tops; it happens in the valleys.
• Perspective vs. Reward: Hard times and struggles serve as refining moments for leaders. While the mountain tops provide a beautiful perspective and a moment of appreciation, the rewards experienced there are directly born from the lessons learned while enduring the valleys.

• Keeping Your House in Order: Andrew strongly believes that if your family life is crashing, your business will ultimately suffer. A successful business starts with a stable foundation at home.
• A Godly Legacy: Andrew highlights his gratitude for his wife—whom he calls his "sustainer" outside of the Lord—and discusses the intentionality required in raising his three teenage boys (ages 13, 14, and 17) to be godly young men rather than just complacent boys.

• The Ventures: Andrew operates two distinct companies: Abel Solutions (a residential roofing and general contracting company running for 16–17 years) and a commercial industrial construction company alongside his father.
• The Burden of Succession: With his father approaching 70 and preparing to retire, Andrew shares the friction and nuance of business succession. They discuss how a founder's identity is often deeply tied to their business, making transitions emotionally complex. Andrew stresses the need for patience, grace, and understanding generational gaps when navigating these corporate shifts.

• Consulting the Creator: Andrew details how he actively tries to avoid relying solely on his own life experiences and understanding. Instead, he highlights the practice of pausing to consult God before making critical business decisions.
• The Example of King David: Nick ties this concept back to scripture, noting that King David repeatedly paused to ask the Lord for direction before rushing into battle. Stepping into challenges without consulting faith means relying entirely on human limitations.

• The Comfort Trap: Andrew shares his backstory of working at Halliburton, a corporate giant offering excellent day-one benefits, strict safety regulations, and comfortable security. However, after accidentally discovering what a 30-year veteran at the company was earning, he realized his ceiling was capped.
• The Front Porch Panic Attack: Despite peers calling him crazy, Andrew quit his stable job to enter door-to-door roofing sales. On his very first sales call, he experienced a debilitating panic attack on the homeowner’s front porch and couldn't speak. Through sheer perseverance, prayer, and a "come to Jesus" meeting with himself in the car, he pushed past the fear to land his first contract. By his first year, he surpassed his corporate ceiling.

• Combating the Stigma: Contractors and roofers are often viewed with distrust, akin to stereotypical used car salesmen. Andrew’s primary motivation is to break this stigma by prioritizing honesty, extreme integrity, and client education.
• Real Impact: By taking the time to thoroughly explain insurance policy coverages and finding hidden savings for clients, Andrew notes that a savings of $1,500–$2,000 directly translates to taking care of a family's monthly gas or groceries, creating a tangible, positive community impact.

• The Anecdote: Andrew recalls a historical, severe hail storm in Wylie, Texas, featuring baseball-sized hail that pierced directly through roofs and ceilings. While other companies hesitated or attempted to delegate from afar, Andrew immediately drove to a Lowe's in Forney, bought out the necessary plywood, and was on-site personally boarding up shattered windows at 5:00 AM before the next rainfall hit.
• The Takeaway: Modern social media culture focuses heavily on appearing successful rather than putting in the work. Andrew warns against letting delegation turn into laziness. To truly separate yourself from the competition, leaders must be willing to be hands-on, locate the hard tasks everyone else is ignoring, and execute them manually.
• Connect with Andrew Jones
• Website: abel-solutions.com

In the season three premiere, hosts Nick and Jeremy shift their focus toward continuous development with a theme centered on "Learning from Leaders." Exploring the foundational premise that everyone is being discipled by something, they challenge listeners to intentionally audit and curate what they consume. The hosts openly share their personal leadership journeys—including a candid confession from Jeremy about his early struggles with an arrogant mindset—and walk through an extensive list of their top resources. From S-tier leadership frameworks and culture-building principles to deep spiritual theology and the unexpected communication value of stand-up comedy, this episode provides a masterclass on curating an impactful personal library.

• Nick and Jeremy introduce the core premise of the new season: examining how leaders learn, who they learn from, and announcing upcoming guest leaders who will share their unique industry wisdom.

• Jeremy’s Marine Corps Confession [01:53]: Jeremy shares how his early rapid promotions in the military fed an arrogant mindset, causing him to reject a growth mindset and completely ignore reading for 10 to 15 years—a phase he now looks back on with regret.
• The Permission to Pivot [02:43]: Nick talks about breaking the mental barrier of feeling forced to finish every book he starts. He gives listeners permission to drop a book 10 pages in if the style doesn't fit, emphasizing that the commitment should be to learning, not to the book itself.

• [06:12] It’s Your Ship by Captain Michael Abrashoff: An excellent lesson in resourcefulness and creativity, detailing how a captain turned the Navy's worst-performing ship into its best.
• [07:01] The Founder and the Force Multiplier by hergenRother: A resource centered on utilizing an Executive Assistant effectively, allowing them to carry heavy organizational weight.
• [08:02] Good to Great by Jim Collins: Regarded as a foundational, classic must-read for any executive.
• [08:12] The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins: The hosts give this book to every new hire to establish a successful mental framework for transition.
• [09:06] The One Thing by Gary Keller: A profound reality check exposing multitasking as a myth and forcing leaders to prioritize what moves the needle most.

• [10:43] The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth by John C. Maxwell: Highly praised for shifting leaders from a limited "goal mindset" (a fixed finish line) to a lifelong "growth mindset."
• [12:16] Working Genius vs. DISC Assessments: Nick outlines how DISC indicates what position a person plays on a team, while Patrick Lencioni's Working Genius maps out where they fit in the project lineup (e.g., dreaming meetings vs. execution meetings).
• [13:10] Death by Meeting by Patrick Lencioni: A roadmap to curing meeting fatigue by restructuring teams around targeted, efficient micro-meetings.
• [14:31] Culture Wins by William Vanderbloemen: A deep look at how workplace culture creates or kills teams, transforming a healthy office into an unstoppable corporate force.

• The hosts break down the value of deep, slow "macro" consumption (books, long-form content) versus quick "micro" consumption (Instagram, shorts, reels). Nick explains how he intentionally curates his children's algorithms to feed them micro-learning value [18:10].

• [19:25] Empowering Leadership by Michael Fletcher: Recommended for young leaders stepping into ministry frameworks.
• [19:44] Act Like Men by James MacDonald: A highly digestible 40-day foundational men's devotional.
• [20:11] The Intentional Father by Jon Tyson: Highlighted as a premier resource for parenting, passing down a legacy, and establishing biblical headship.
• [21:00] Soul Keeping by John Ortberg: Nick shares how this book pulled him out of a dry, overwhelmed season of ministry, noting that "balance is a myth, but soul care is mandatory."
• [21:52] Spiritual Leadership by J. Oswald Sanders: A staple text for leadership development schools.
• [22:54] The God You Can Know by Dan DeHaan: Praised for translating massive, complex theological concepts into highly digestible "chicken nuggets" of truth regarding God's character.
• [24:02] The Reason for God by Tim Keller: A heavy, brilliant theological read that requires a slow, intentional process to chew on.

• [27:22] The Circle Maker & Chase the Lion by Mark Batterson: Books focused on chasing God-sized dreams that are destined to fail without divine intervention.
• [28:38] Grit by Angela Duckworth: Understanding the secular psychology of perseverance and passion.
• [28:52] The AI-Driven Leader: Reminding listeners to check out the Season 1 interview with Rocky regarding AI's changing footprint in the marketplace.

The hosts rattle off an elite list of creators they follow to sharpen their vocabulary, worldview, and communications, including:

• The Diary of a CEO Podcast [33:10]
• The Ed Mylett Show (Specifically The Power of One More) [34:58]
• The School of Greatness by Lewis Howes [35:24]
• Craig Groeschel’s Leadership Podcast [34:40]
• Preachers and content creators like Rich Wilkerson Jr., Josh Howerton, Joby Martin, and Shane Pruitt.
• The Communication Secret [36:26]: Why young pastors and business speakers should study clean stand-up comedians (like Michael Jr.) to master pacing, emotional intelligence (EQ), rhythms, and reading a room.

• For the ultimate next step in developing a proper growth mindset, both Nick and Jeremy independently select John C. Maxwell's work as their top secular choice: "The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth" (or The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership).

What happens when corporate mandates collide with the Kingdom of God? In this heavy-hitting season finale, Nick and Jeremy look straight into the belly of the beast: the growing conflict between corporate compliance, Human Resources, legal frameworks, and uncompromised spiritual conviction. Utilizing current legal case studies—including John MacArthur’s multi-thousand dollar lockdown settlement and high school football coach Joe Kennedy’s landmark Supreme Court win—they break down why modern corporate training and HR policies are designed to protect the organization, not your integrity [00:05].

The guys unpack a vital 4-part behavioral filter to help leaders navigate real-world ultimatums and provide business owners with structural advice on how to architect a corporate environment engineered for spiritual growth. If you are a high-level executive or a Christian entering the workforce, this episode lays down an uncompromising line in the sand.

• [00:05] — The Core Dilemma An introduction to the central corporate conflict of our generation: navigating the space where HR pressure and kingdom convictions crash into each other.
• [02:12] — Creating Space for Darkness A theological analysis of the church's strategic retreat from politics, public school systems, and corporate executive suites in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, showing how tactical passivity gave ground to modern systemic overreach.
• [04:49] — Case Study 1: The Corporate & Church Crackdown An analysis of how legal frameworks were heavily leveraged to force conformity on churches, highlighting structural lessons from Pastor John MacArthur’s resistance in California.
• [06:38] — Case Study 2: Standing Firm on the Field Breaking down Coach Joe Kennedy’s legal battle against public school administration to assert the right to pray publicly on the 50-yard line.
• [10:48] — Real-World Ultra-Ultimatums: The 1-on-1 Scenario Jeremy details a high-stakes, real-world scenario of a married corporate leader whose female executive boss leveraged HR protocol as a weapon to break his personal boundaries.
• [14:38] — The 4-Part Filter for Decision Making A practical framework for executives to process corporate mandates under pressure:

1. Conviction vs. Ego — Is it biblically wrong, or just personally uncomfortable?
2. Outcome vs. Mission — What outcome are you actively trying to protect?
3. Restraint & Wisdom — What does silence and active preparation look like before speaking up?
4. Expense — What will this move cost you, and are you willing to foot the bill?

• [32:41] — Coaching Advice for High-Level Business Owners How Christian CEOs can deliberately utilize corporate authority to cultivate a spiritual "fertile soil" within their organizations rather than letting HR dictate company parameters.
• [33:36] — The Four Things to Flee From A Pauline framework mapping 1 Timothy principles directly onto the modern 9-to-5 workspace: fleeing modern idolatry, sexual immorality, youthful arguments, and the trap of financial security.

In this episode, Nick and Jeremy tackle the difficult tension between being liked and being respected as a leader [00:03]. They argue that leaders who prioritize their "approval rating" over the mission effectively raise a ceiling on their own influence and potential for impact [30:15]. The discussion explores the tactical differences between a "prophet" who speaks the truth and a "politician" who speaks for votes, while providing clear indicators for when a leader should speak out and when they should remain silent [05:02, 15:05].

Here are the key takeaways from the Courage to be Hated episode:

• Respect vs. Popularity: While being liked and respected often go hand-in-hand, leaders must prioritize respect over the chase for "likes," as the constant need for approval effectively lowers the ceiling of their influence.
• The "Ice Cream" Rule: Referencing a quote by Nick Saban, the hosts emphasize that leadership involves making hard, often unpopular decisions for the good of the team, famously noting, "If you want to be liked, sell ice cream".
• Strategic Silence: Leaders must identify when not to speak, particularly when they lack sufficient data, are too emotionally charged to process clearly, or are being baited into a "trap" conversation.
• Kindness vs. Niceness: Drawing from the life of Jesus, the podcast distinguishes between being "kind" (acting for the total well-being of another) and being "nice" (merely being pleasant or agreeable), noting that true leadership often requires uncomfortable confrontation for a person's long-term benefit.
• Leadership vs. Manipulation: The "thin line" between these two is motive; leadership is influencing others for the common good, whereas manipulation is influencing others for your own good or comfort.
• The Motive Audit: Before delivering a difficult message, a leader should perform an internal check to ensure the information is necessary, true, and relevant to the other person's future growth rather than their own reputation.
• The Person Audit: A leader must also ask, "Am I the right person to say this?" to ensure they are operating within their proper realm of authority.

Summary: In this final episode of the season, Nick and Jeremy address the "courage problem" that stalls progress in businesses, families, and churches. They dive into why leaders avoid "crucial conversations" and provide a tactical blueprint for addressing underperformance and behavioral issues without destroying morale. From the "F.B.I." framework to the danger of the "meeting after the meeting," this episode is a masterclass in leading with soul and precision.

Key Takeaways:

• The Cost of Silence: Avoiding conflict doesn't create peace; it creates organizational debt and destroys credibility.
• The F.B.I. Framework: A three-step method to deliver feedback effectively—Feelings, Behavior, Impact.
• Perspective vs. Truth: Recognizing that while perspectives vary, truth remains the foundation of healthy leadership.
• The "Nicer" Trap: Why over-politeness is actually a form of selfishness that limits a team's potential.
• Active Listening: The most valuable attribute in any confrontational conversation.

Resources Mentioned:

• Crucial Conversations (Book).
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni.
• The Assignment Manifesto.

The "First Strike" Challenge: Identify the one conversation you’ve been putting off. Use the "F.B.I." framework to prepare. Stop asking for permission to be the leader God called you to be. Step into the tension and clear the debt today.

Summary: In this episode, Nick and Jeremy tackle the "fragmented life" that plagues modern leadership. They define Functional Atheism—the tendency to profess faith while operating as if we are the final authority and ultimate responsible party for our success. They challenge leaders to move past the "Control Trap" and "Anxiety Metrics" to find the "fire and precision" of a life fully aligned with their sacred Assignment.

Key Takeaways:

• Defining the Shadow: Understanding functional atheism as the unconscious conviction that ultimate responsibility rests solely on us.
• The Capacity Gap: Why God gives you a vision larger than your current ability—to force growth and reliance.
• Sacred vs. Strategic: How to stop treating your theology as a Sunday hobby and start using it as a Monday strategy.
• The Pattern of Trust: Why results follow alignment, and alignment requires the death of the ego.

Resources Mentioned:

• Trust by Dr. Henry Cloud (Foundation of Character)
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni (The Foundation of Trust)
• The Assignment Manifesto

The "First Strike" Challenge: Conduct a "Stewardship Audit" this week. Identify one project where you have been relying 100% on your own strength and stress. Re-align that project with your "Sacred Standard" and commit to stewarding it through conviction rather than control.

Summary: In this powerful episode, Nick and Jeremy explore the foundational element of any successful organization: Trust. They dive into why a lack of trust acts as a total stop for progress and provide a blueprint for both establishing initial trust and restoring it once it has been broken. Drawing from the wisdom of Henry Cloud and Patrick Lencioni, they tackle real-world scenarios of theft, character failure, and the essential distinction between biblical forgiveness and organizational restoration.

Key Takeaways:

• The Foundation of Results: Using Lencioni’s pyramid to show that trust is the mandatory starting point for accountability and results.
• The Five Essentials of Trust: A checklist to determine if a person—or a leader—should be trusted: Understanding, Motive, Ability, Character, and Track Record.
• Forgiveness vs. Trust: Understanding that while we are called to forgive everyone, trust must be earned back through a season of changed patterns.
• The "But" Rule: Why any excuse or blameshifting in an apology completely nullifies the owner's attempt at reconciliation.
• New Rules for Safety: Just like the NFL, broken trust requires "new rules" and boundaries to prevent further injury and build a safe pathway forward.

Resources Mentioned:

• Trust by Dr. Henry Cloud.
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni.
• The Assignment Manifesto.

The "First Strike" Challenge: Take full ownership of one violation of trust this week. Do it without excuses, without "but" statements, and with the humility to submit to the path of restoration determined by the person you hurt. Stop managing your reputation and start building your character.