John welcomes Democratic media strategist and crisis communications wizard Lis Smith—who has worked for candidates ranging from Barack Obama and Pete Buttigieg to Andrew Cuomo and Eliot Spitzer—to discuss the ongoing MAGA meltdown over the Jeffrey Epstein files. Lis explains why the Epstein scandal is different (in severity and in kind) than any of the prior imbroglios that Donald Trump has weathered; how his efforts to douse the story have only inflamed it further; the mounting sense of betrayal among his supporters in the manosphere; and which 2028 Democratic hopefuls are best-equipped to thrive in that arena.