List Envy

No episode this week due to technical issues. We should be back and podcasting again in a week or so, but if you’re interested in the many and varied problems Mark’s had trying to get the laterst episode up, then have a listen.

Also if you’re curious about how Mark thinks about the show going forwards, stay tuned.

If you’re interested, Mark put this episode together mostly on his iPad. He recorded the audio on the Mac, ‘cos that’s where his posh mic sits, but did all the mixing and editing, and even uploading with show notes, on his iPad. Interesting to no-one.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Steve Dawson

Writer (Walliams & Friend, Saturday Night Takeaway, Big School, Dawson Bros Funtime, Mitchell and Webb), Director (Groove Armada, FoD), Host of the Mind Canyon podcast.

Steve Dawson (@SDawsonBros) on Twitter

Dawson Bros.

Comedy writer and performer Steve Dawson gets nerdy — but not really that nerdy — and talks about the culture and stereotypes around the word “geek”. But also there’s lots of stuff with lasers and electronic music.

Steve talks about the book Laughter, by Robert R Provine, which deals with in-group and out-group mentality, why we laugh and who we follow when we’re laughing, which comes into focus when we ask ourselves why certain things are cool to like, and other things just aren’t.

Get Extra Envy in your inbox

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some extra nerd stuff you won’t get in the podcast.

Steve’s picks

In order of discussion:

Star Wars

This made the top of Steve’s list because… come on. Even if you’ve not seen Star Wars — which you have — you know enough of the basic blocks to get a surface level joke about it. And yet, knowing so much as a character name is seen as being nerdy.

Synthesisers

Would you call Chainsmokers or the Prodigy nerds? For his second pick, Steve considers artists like Liam Howlett and the Eilishes (Billie and her brother) who make music in their bedrooms, and spend more time tweaking oscillators than “getting some fresh air”.

Collecting

There seems to be a delineation between what it’s acceptable to.collect — porcelain pigs, anyone? — and what is nerdy. Steve uses this moment to confess to a certain collection which, upon reflection, hasn’t necessarily stood the test of time.

Comic-Con

Steve’s fairly new to comic book and pop culture conventions, but enjoys the surprising family-appeal aspect. They’re places of inclusion, where people feel a bit more empowered to let their particular freak flags fly.

Knowing how to use technology

We all know the jokes around being the kid who can programme the DVD player — in our day it was the video recorder — but who now doesn’t have a tiny computer in their pocket, with access to all the world’s information? Having one, it seems, is not geeky… but knowing what to do when it goes wrong? 🤔

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

The Big Bang Theory

Mark finds it hard to accept the central premise of the show, and isn’t charmed by what Disney executives think nerd culture means.

Videogames

This was only really hinted at — and there’s more discussion on the subject in the Extra Envy podcast, which you can get by becoming a supporter — but everyone has played some form of videogame, whether it’s on the Wii or in Facebook or on a mobile (on the loo).

Game of Thrones

Yes, it was the most popular show of its time and new episodes broke the Internet shortly after their release, but it has a world behind the beards and the boobs and the dragons that belies its seemingly broad appeal.

Board games

Taletop games can range from the simple to the incredibly complex. Mark mentions card games like Exploding Kittens and Cards Against Humanity, as well as board games like Ticket to Ride, all of which have broad appeal. But shuffle the deck just a little, and you find a whole fantastic world of nerdery beneath the surface.

More of Steve Dawson

You can follow Steve on Twitter, and check out the work of the Dawson Bros (that’s Steve and his writing-partner brother), who have written for Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway, Walliams & Friend and Mitchell and Webb. You can — and simply must — also subscribe to the Mind Canyon podcast, a superb mix of improvised comedy and obsessive sound design.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Steve Dawson

Writer (Walliams & Friend, Saturday Night Takeaway, Big School, Dawson Bros Funtime, Mitchell and Webb), Director (Groove Armada, FoD), Host of the Mind Canyon podcast.

Steve Dawson (@SDawsonBros) on Twitter

Dawson Bros.

Comedy writer and performer Steve Dawson gets nerdy — but not really that nerdy — and talks about the culture and stereotypes around the word “geek”. But also there’s lots of stuff with lasers and electronic music.

Steve talks about the book Laughter, by Robert R Provine, which deals with in-group and out-group mentality, why we laugh and who we follow when we’re laughing, which comes into focus when we ask ourselves why certain things are cool to like, and other things just aren’t.

Get Extra Envy in your inbox

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some extra nerd stuff you won’t get in the podcast.

Steve’s picks

In order of discussion:

Star Wars

This made the top of Steve’s list because… come on. Even if you’ve not seen Star Wars — which you have — you know enough of the basic blocks to get a surface level joke about it. And yet, knowing so much as a character name is seen as being nerdy.

Synthesisers

Would you call Chainsmokers or the Prodigy nerds? For his second pick, Steve considers artists like Liam Howlett and the Eilishes (Billie and her brother) who make music in their bedrooms, and spend more time tweaking oscillators than “getting some fresh air”.

Collecting

There seems to be a delineation between what it’s acceptable to.collect — porcelain pigs, anyone? — and what is nerdy. Steve uses this moment to confess to a certain collection which, upon reflection, hasn’t necessarily stood the test of time.

Comic-Con

Steve’s fairly new to comic book and pop culture conventions, but enjoys the surprising family-appeal aspect. They’re places of inclusion, where people feel a bit more empowered to let their particular freak flags fly.

Knowing how to use technology

We all know the jokes around being the kid who can programme the DVD player — in our day it was the video recorder — but who now doesn’t have a tiny computer in their pocket, with access to all the world’s information? Having one, it seems, is not geeky… but knowing what to do when it goes wrong? 🤔

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

The Big Bang Theory

Mark finds it hard to accept the central premise of the show, and isn’t charmed by what Disney executives think nerd culture means.

Videogames

This was only really hinted at — and there’s more discussion on the subject in the Extra Envy podcast, which you can get by becoming a supporter — but everyone has played some form of videogame, whether it’s on the Wii or in Facebook or on a mobile (on the loo).

Game of Thrones

Yes, it was the most popular show of its time and new episodes broke the Internet shortly after their release, but it has a world behind the beards and the boobs and the dragons that belies its seemingly broad appeal.

Board games

Taletop games can range from the simple to the incredibly complex. Mark mentions card games like Exploding Kittens and Cards Against Humanity , as well as board games like Ticket to Ride , all of which have broad appeal. But shuffle the deck just a little, and you find a whole fantastic world of nerdery beneath the surface.

More of Steve Dawson

You can follow Steve on Twitter, and check out the work of the Dawson Bros (that’s Steve and his writing-partner brother), who have written for Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway, Walliams & Friend and Mitchell and Webb. You can — and simply must — also subscribe to the Mind Canyon podcast, a superb mix of improvised comedy and obsessive sound design.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Alberto Cairo

Knight Chair at the University of Miami. New book: “How Charts Lie” (WW Norton). Previous: “The Truthful Art” (2016). Consultant and freelancer.

Alberto Cairo (@AlbertoCairo) on Twitter

The Functional Art: An Introduction to Information Graphics and Visualization

Mark gets political and data-visual with data visualisation expert, Alberto Cairo.

Alberto has a journalism degree and worked as a graphic designer for many years. He now teaches the subject, and quite literally wrote the book on it. Although a lot of what’s covered in this episode is US-centric, Alberto maintains that the misuse of graphics isn’t a partisan problem linked to whether someone’s in a blue state or a red state, but essentially that the right is guilty of bullshitting.

Bullshit is a word you’ll hear a lot in this episode, and especially refreshing in a Spanish accent. But in this context, it has a very specific meaning, with its roots in a book by Harry Frankfurt.

In Alberto’s latest book, How Charts Lie, he reminds us that “a chart shows only what it shows”, and nothing else.

Advisory

In the discussion around Mark’s fourth pick — about 38 minutes in — Mark and Alberto discuss how the question of abortion is tackled within the US, in order to bias survey answers. They don’t get into the actual topic of abortion obviously, but some of the language around it is a little bald.

Alberto’s picks

In order of discussion:

Choropleth map

This type of map which uses colour to represent data was used especially heavily in the 2016 Trump election campaign, to argue the amount of popular support he had. It was recently brought back out of storage with the tagline “Impeach this”. Here’s a piece from CNN debunking this map.

Manipulation of line charts

In his book, Alberto cites an example of a climate change chart, representing temperature change from 0 to 100℉, and ignoring the impact of a change of a single degree.

Perspective effects

3D charts might look nice, but you can manipulate them very easily based on where you place the virtual camera. Even a subtle shift in perspective can make something look a lot bigger than it is, or heavily emphasise one bar in a chart over another. Alberto’s advice: if you’re showing data on a 2D service like a screen or in print, don’t be tempted by 3D charts.

Projection

Alberto references this tongue-in-cheek article from the New England Journal of Medicine, whose scatterplot graph seemed to suggest that the more chocolate a country ate (kg per year per capita), the more Noel Laureates that country had per 10 million people. The reason the chart is misleading is that it doesn’t go into why a country consumes more chocolate, and why a country has more Nobel laureates than another (since these two things aren’t necessarily actually related at all).

Sourcing of data

Alberto gives an example of a map showing homelessness in Florida, which seems unaccountably high due to that particular state’s definition of homelessness, which demonstrates how important it is to understand where a set of numbers comes from. The numbers in a chart or a graph might be entirely accurate, but it’s the context behind those numbers: how they’re gathered and how they’re interpreted, that can make a difference.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Omitting the baseline

This particular practise is useful in comparing two percentage.s If there’s a < 2% difference in something, a bar chart whose scale starts at 0 and ends in 100 isn’t going to show that difference, but you zoom in and start from, say, 85%, you can make the difference look much more dramatic.

Distorting the X axis

You might be forgiven for assuming that an X or Y axis in a chart should go up or down in regular intervals: 1, 10, 20, 30, etc. But if that doesn’t suit your case, and you want to emphasise a particular band of numbers, or that particular segment doesn’t fit your argument, turns out you can just omit that data from your axis, and all you need to do is add a little squiggle to the axis to show you’ve made an “edit”.

Using real-world objects as bars in a graph

Similar to Alberto’s point about 3D charts, Mark wanted to bring up the use of real world objects as a replacement for the bars in a bar chart. The sport-based example Mark was reaching for came from a YouTube video on reading misleading graphs.

Reversing the Y axis

Mark brings up a well-known example of a misleading chart on people killed by guns that reverses the Y axis, showing how the number changed once the state enacted its self-defence law. The chart makes it look like gun deaths dropped after the law was enacted, when they in fact did the opposite. And just to prove how influential this kind of tactic can be, Mark gets the meaning of the chart entirely upside down on mic.

Dive deeper

Mark mentioned a move by the Lib Dems in 2019 that raised a few hackles online, which was covered in the Guardian.

More of Alberto Cairo

You can follow Al...

Guest

Alberto Cairo

Knight Chair at the University of Miami. New book: “How Charts Lie” (WW Norton). Previous: “The Truthful Art” (2016). Consultant and freelancer.

Alberto Cairo (@AlbertoCairo) on Twitter

The Functional Art: An Introduction to Information Graphics and Visualization

Mark gets political and data-visual with data visualisation expert, Alberto Cairo.

Alberto has a journalism degree and worked as a graphic designer for many years. He now teaches the subject, and quite literally wrote the book on it. Although a lot of what’s covered in this episode is US-centric, Alberto maintains that the misuse of graphics isn’t a partisan problem linked to whether someone’s in a blue state or a red state, but essentially that the right is guilty of bullshitting.

Bullshit is a word you’ll hear a lot in this episode, and especially refreshing in a Spanish accent. But in this context, it has a very specific meaning, with its roots in a book by Harry Frankfurt.

In Alberto’s latest book, How Charts Lie, he reminds us that “a chart shows only what it shows”, and nothing else.

Advisory

In the discussion around Mark’s fourth pick — about 38 minutes in — Mark and Alberto discuss how the question of abortion is tackled within the US, in order to bias survey answers. They don’t get into the actual topic of abortion obviously, but some of the language around it is a little bald.

Alberto’s picks

In order of discussion:

Choropleth map

This type of map which uses colour to represent data was used especially heavily in the 2016 Trump election campaign, to argue the amount of popular support he had. It was recently brought back out of storage with the tagline “Impeach this”. Here’s a piece from CNN debunking this map.

Manipulation of line charts

In his book, Alberto cites an example of a climate change chart, representing temperature change from 0 to 100℉, and ignoring the impact of a change of a single degree.

Perspective effects

3D charts might look nice, but you can manipulate them very easily based on where you place the virtual camera. Even a subtle shift in perspective can make something look a lot bigger than it is, or heavily emphasise one bar in a chart over another. Alberto’s advice: if you’re showing data on a 2D service like a screen or in print, don’t be tempted by 3D charts.

Projection

Alberto references this tongue-in-cheek article from the New England Journal of Medicine, whose scatterplot graph seemed to suggest that the more chocolate a country ate (kg per year per capita), the more Noel Laureates that country had per 10 million people. The reason the chart is misleading is that it doesn’t go into why a country consumes more chocolate, and why a country has more Nobel laureates than another (since these two things aren’t necessarily actually related at all).

Sourcing of data

Alberto gives an example of a map showing homelessness in Florida, which seems unaccountably high due to that particular state’s definition of homelessness, which demonstrates how important it is to understand where a set of numbers comes from. The numbers in a chart or a graph might be entirely accurate, but it’s the context behind those numbers: how they’re gathered and how they’re interpreted, that can make a difference.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Omitting the baseline

This particular practise is useful in comparing two percentage.s If there’s a < 2% difference in something, a bar chart whose scale starts at 0 and ends in 100 isn’t going to show that difference, but you zoom in and start from, say, 85%, you can make the difference look much more dramatic.

Distorting the X axis

You might be forgiven for assuming that an X or Y axis in a chart should go up or down in regular intervals: 1, 10, 20, 30, etc. But if that doesn’t suit your case, and you want to emphasise a particular band of numbers, or that particular segment doesn’t fit your argument, turns out you can just omit that data from your axis, and all you need to do is add a little squiggle to the axis to show you’ve made an “edit”.

Using real-world objects as bars in a graph

Similar to Alberto’s point about 3D charts, Mark wanted to bring up the use of real world objects as a replacement for the bars in a bar chart. The sport-based example Mark was reaching for came from a YouTube video on reading misleading graphs.

Reversing the Y axis

Mark brings up a well-known example of a misleading chart on people killed by guns that reverses the Y axis, showing how the number changed once the state enacted its self-defence law. The chart makes it look like gun deaths dropped after the law was enacted, when they in fact did the opposite. And just to prove how influential this kind of tactic can be, Mark gets the meaning of the chart entirely upside down on mic.

Dive deeper

Mark mentioned a move by the Lib Dems in 2019 that raised a few hackles online, which was covered in the Guardian.

More of Alberto Cairo

You can follow Alberto on Twitter, check out his website, and read his blog, The Functional Art.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Arielle Nissenblatt

Founder of the Earbuds Podcast Collective, co-creator of the Outlier Podcast Festival, a lover of license plates and roller blading.

EarBuds Podcast Collective

Arielle Nissenblatt (@arithisandthat) | Twitter

Newsletter editor, event organiser and podcast wonder Arielle Nissenblatt joins Mark to discuss an often maligned tuber.

Arielle grew up almost exclusively on potatoes, although she admits her palate has broadened slightly since then. If you ever thought this vegetable (which is not a vegetable, it’s a tuber; we’ve covered this) was boring, prepare to have your mind exploded all the way off.

You’ll also learn some interesting facts about potatoes, so strap in and get ready to carbo-load.

Arielle’s picks

In order of discussion:

Hash browns

Both Arielle and Mark might be getting these and home fries confused, but we’re essentially talking about mashed up bits of potato, fried. Arielle used to have one of these on the bus to school, which proves she won at childhood.

French fries

The French fry is, at least for Americans, perhaps potatoes’ default state. Whether long and skinny, short and nubbly, or curly, it’s all good. The least said about sweet potato fries the better, mostly because they’re not potatoes.

Samosas

The samosa is more a potato delivery mechanism, but a strong one. Mark is also a fan of the flavour of a curried potato, so it’s a strong showing.

Latkes

As if hash browns and home fries weren’t enough, this common Jewish delicacy is another welcome addition to the mashed-up-bits-of-fried-potato roster.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Roast

The humble roast potato is, believes Mark, a beautiful thing, and who can disagree? It’s hard to beat a fluffy potato filling, surrounded by salt and fat. And if that fat happens to come from a goose, so much the better.

Chips

Not, under any circumstances to be confused with French fries, chips are an important staple in British cuisine. Mark urges Arielle — and by extension, you the listener — to try and lay hands on a potato scallop, because it’s possible your life may not be the same afterwards.

Jacket potato

The jacket — or baked — potato is Mark’s third choice, partially as a delivery mechanism for other flavours, but for Arielle, a delivery mechanism for butter. Rub olive oil and salt into the skin and pop it in the oven for three days. Delicious.

Shepherd’s pie

The mashed potato that serves as the hat for a cottage or shepherd’s pie — Mark preferring the lamb-based option — can be improved by deploying a fork, and sprinkling cheese all over it. Mashed potato didn’t, in its naked form make either list as such, but it’s important that it get a mention, even if it needs a little dressing up.

More of Arielle Nissenblatt

Follow Arielle on Twitter, and check out the Earbuds Podcast Collective, a global listening movement perfect for those among us that love a list.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Arielle Nissenblatt

Founder of the Earbuds Podcast Collective, co-creator of the Outlier Podcast Festival, a lover of license plates and roller blading.

EarBuds Podcast Collective

Arielle Nissenblatt (@arithisandthat) | Twitter

Newsletter editor, event organiser and podcast wonder Arielle Nissenblatt joins Mark to discuss an often maligned tuber.

Arielle grew up almost exclusively on potatoes, although she admits her palate has broadened slightly since then. If you ever thought this vegetable (which is not a vegetable, it’s a tuber; we’ve covered this) was boring, prepare to have your mind exploded all the way off.

You’ll also learn some interesting facts about potatoes, so strap in and get ready to carbo-load.

Arielle’s picks

In order of discussion:

Hash browns

Both Arielle and Mark might be getting these and home fries confused, but we’re essentially talking about mashed up bits of potato, fried. Arielle used to have one of these on the bus to school, which proves she won at childhood.

French fries

The French fry is, at least for Americans, perhaps potatoes’ default state. Whether long and skinny, short and nubbly, or curly, it’s all good. The least said about sweet potato fries the better, mostly because they’re not potatoes.

Samosas

The samosa is more a potato delivery mechanism, but a strong one. Mark is also a fan of the flavour of a curried potato, so it’s a strong showing.

Latkes

As if hash browns and home fries weren’t enough, this common Jewish delicacy is another welcome addition to the mashed-up-bits-of-fried-potato roster.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Roast

The humble roast potato is, believes Mark, a beautiful thing, and who can disagree? It’s hard to beat a fluffy potato filling, surrounded by salt and fat. And if that fat happens to come from a goose, so much the better.

Chips

Not, under any circumstances to be confused with French fries, chips are an important staple in British cuisine. Mark urges Arielle — and by extension, you the listener — to try and lay hands on a potato scallop, because it’s possible your life may not be the same afterwards.

Jacket potato

The jacket — or baked — potato is Mark’s third choice, partially as a delivery mechanism for other flavours, but for Arielle, a delivery mechanism for butter. Rub olive oil and salt into the skin and pop it in the oven for three days. Delicious.

Shepherd’s pie

The mashed potato that serves as the hat for a cottage or shepherd’s pie — Mark preferring the lamb-based option — can be improved by deploying a fork, and sprinkling cheese all over it. Mashed potato didn’t, in its naked form make either list as such, but it’s important that it get a mention, even if it needs a little dressing up.

More of Arielle Nissenblatt

Follow Arielle on Twitter, and check out the Earbuds Podcast Collective, a global listening movement perfect for those among us that love a list.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Becky Graham

Co-host of the podcast Your Own Words.

Your Own Words

Mark is joined by one half of the literary podcast Your Own Words, voracious reader and Danish furniture fan, Becky Graham, to swap notes on badass women from the printed page.

A “sincere” apology

The first discussion topic caused both guest and presenter to embark on a number of attempts at Irish accents. These were not successful, and all parties apologise for the inconvenience.

This episode contains a few naughty words (mostly the same word, but said a lot).

Becky’s list

In order of discussion:

Maureen O’Hara

Becky’s first pick is a Hollywood actor who co-wrote and co-starred in The Quiet Man, and was blacklisted for not sleeping with execs in order to get parts. If you take her at her word — and why wouldn’t you? — she also approached Walt Disney with a view to making Mary Poppins with her in the lead role, a proposition which Disney turned down before apparently going off to make it with Julie Andrews. She also owned a fleet of aircraft, so there’s that.

Matilda Wormwood

There’s very little not to like about Matilda, the titular star of Roald Dahl’s children’s story, who taught herself telekinesis and devised ingenious ways to mess with her ignorant family members.

Miss Marple

Not unlike one of Mark’s picks, Marple plays up to others’ perceptions of her as being a doddery old woman, but her keen intellect and self-assuredness invariably wins the day.

Lucy Pevensie

The youngest sibling of the Chronicles of Narnia family is a favourite of Becky’s because of her bravery, kindness, and her unwillingness to be shoved aside.

Elizabeth Bennet

The protagonist of Pride and Prejudice married for love and not for status, and didn’t allow other people to make decisions for her. For Becky, she’s an example of knowing who you are and what you want, which was a rare thing to read as a women in the 19th century, much less to write.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Lisbeth Salander

Mark’s first pick is a badass with a motorbike, a photographic memory and a head full of code. He was introduced to her via The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, and quickly identified with this woman who opted out of social convention but is guided by a strong sense of justice, which she meats out without remorselessly.

Granny Weatherwax

The straight woman in the Discworld double-act that is Weatherwax and Ogg, she is the kind of woman who “has no truck” with things. She also has a mean poker face.

_Artwork by SlowhandManjam _

Arya Stark

One of only a handful of female characters within the Game of Thrones universe with any degree of agency, Arya fights against the perceptions of her gender, and then fights anyone else that’ll take her on.

Clarice Starling

The lead character in The Silence of the Lambs makes Mark’s list as a solid, powerful, human character. Her story is less about surviving in a man’s world, and more about getting the job done and catching the bad guys.

Zoey Ashe

Mark’s final pick is the protagonist from David Wong’s Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits, a snarky young woman with a cat called Stink Machine and no time for any of this bullshit.

Artwork by guttersblessing

More of Becky Graham

You can find Becky co-hosting the podcast Your Own Words, with Allison Dunnings, and you can follow them show on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Becky Graham

Co-host of the podcast Your Own Words.

Your Own Words

Mark is joined by one half of the literary podcast Your Own Words, voracious reader and Danish furniture fan, Becky Graham, to swap notes on badass women from the printed page.

A “sincere” apology

The first discussion topic caused both guest and presenter to embark on a number of attempts at Irish accents. These were not successful, and all parties apologise for the inconvenience.

This episode contains a few naughty words (mostly the same word, but said a lot).

Becky’s list

In order of discussion:

Maureen O’Hara

Becky’s first pick is a Hollywood actor who co-wrote and co-starred in The Quiet Man, and was blacklisted for not sleeping with execs in order to get parts. If you take her at her word — and why wouldn’t you? — she also approached Walt Disney with a view to making Mary Poppins with her in the lead role, a proposition which Disney turned down before apparently going off to make it with Julie Andrews. She also owned a fleet of aircraft, so there’s that.

Matilda Wormwood

There’s very little not to like about Matilda, the titular star of Roald Dahl’s children’s story, who taught herself telekinesis and devised ingenious ways to mess with her ignorant family members.

Miss Marple

Not unlike one of Mark’s picks, Marple plays up to others’ perceptions of her as being a doddery old woman, but her keen intellect and self-assuredness invariably wins the day.

Lucy Pevensie

The youngest sibling of the Chronicles of Narnia family is a favourite of Becky’s because of her bravery, kindness, and her unwillingness to be shoved aside.

Elizabeth Bennet

The protagonist of Pride and Prejudice married for love and not for status, and didn’t allow other people to make decisions for her. For Becky, she’s an example of knowing who you are and what you want, which was a rare thing to read as a women in the 19th century, much less to write.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Lisbeth Salander

Mark’s first pick is a badass with a motorbike, a photographic memory and a head full of code. He was introduced to her via The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, and quickly identified with this woman who opted out of social convention but is guided by a strong sense of justice, which she meats out without remorselessly.

Granny Weatherwax

The straight woman in the Discworld double-act that is Weatherwax and Ogg, she is the kind of woman who “has no truck” with things. She also has a mean poker face.

_Artwork by SlowhandManjam _

Arya Stark

One of only a handful of female characters within the Game of Thrones universe with any degree of agency, Arya fights against the perceptions of her gender, and then fights anyone else that’ll take her on.

Clarice Starling

The lead character in The Silence of the Lambs makes Mark’s list as a solid, powerful, human character. Her story is less about surviving in a man’s world, and more about getting the job done and catching the bad guys.

Zoey Ashe

Mark’s final pick is the protagonist from David Wong’s Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits, a snarky young woman with a cat called Stink Machine and no time for any of this bullshit.

Artwork by guttersblessing

More of Becky Graham

You can find Becky co-hosting the podcast Your Own Words, with Allison Dunnings, and you can follow them show on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Links

Support the podcast

Guest

Sara-Mae Tuson

Writer of young adult novels, producer for a boutique podcast company, copywriter and editor.

Fable Gazers Season 2: Heyer Today

Sara-Mae Tuson (@saramaetuson) | Twitter

Writer and podcaster Sara-Mae Tuson kicks off a double-bill of brilliant women in literature. This week, Mark and Sara-Mae discuss under-appreciated female authors.

Sara-Mae is a writer who’s turned her natural storytelling abilities into podcasting magic. Her previous work, The Sugar Baby Confessionals picked won bronze in the Best Sex and Relationship Podcast at the 2019 British Podcast Awards, and she’s now working on a series all about the life and work of her first pick.

Mark and Sara-Mae discuss the value of being talked up to in literature, the perception of romance in literature, and the industry’s apparent reliance on classifying work, and putting authors and their work in boxes.

Here’s Mark’s appearance on Your Own Words, in which he talked about Grinny by Nicholas Fisk, and a little about Gene Kemp.

Get Extra Envy in your inbox

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for Mark and Sara-Mae’s Goodreads recommendations.

Sara-Mae’s picks

In order of discussion:

Georgette Heyer

Sara-Mae is a fan of the often looked-down-upon genre of regency romance, and considers Heyer to be the gold standard. This Wimbledon-born woman wrote not only romances, but thrillers, with over 50 novels to her name.

Elizabeth von Arnim

Von Arnim makes Sara-Mae’s list thanks to the elegence and insightfulness of her work. She wrote from the late 19th to the early 20th century, was a modern thinker, and at one time the breadwinner.

Mary Stewart

Sara-Mae picked this 20th century thriller and romance novelist for her vivid writing, her scene-setting, and her ability to place ordinary people into difficult situations, allowing them to do extraordinary things.

Barbara Pym

Sara-Mae’s next pick is described as “forever being forgotten, and forever revived”. Another author who derived meaning from the ordinary, Pym was once described as the most underrated writer of the century.

Cynthia Voigt

Voigt’s book The Runner was an eye-opener for Sara-Mae, as it gave her permission to worry less about conforming to society’s expectations.

Nancy Mitford

“Nancy the novelist” was a joint fifth pick for Sara-Mae, who wonders how much her writing would have been informed and affected by her life and her other (in)famous sisters.

Mark’s pick

In order of discussion:

Victoria Wood

Mark picked Wood as his first selection, as her writing work can sometimes go unappreciated. As well as an accomplished songwriter and musician, Wood was a highly successful standup, and through Acorn Antiques, Dinner Ladies and the mockumentaries in As Seen on TV, has created enduring comic characters.

Nicole Perlman

Mark’s second pick is a co-writer of Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel and Detective Pikachu. As a comic book screenwriter, her name isn’t usually up in lights, hence her addition to Mark’s list.

Gene Kemp

Mark picked this children’s and young-adult writer as a name he fondly remembered from his past, even if he seemed to be unable to recall any of her actual books. Kemp wrote about everyday characters living mundane lives, but brought out the drama through their inner monologues.

Abi Morgan

The creator of the TV show The Hour, and screenwriter for The Iron Lady is Mark’s fourth pick as a writer whose work many of us have enjoyed, especially within the UK, but that we don’t necessarily always attribute to the correct source.

Tamora Pierce

Mark delves further back into his childhood for his final pick, choosing to highlight Tamora Pierce and her Wild Magic book series.

More of Sara-Mae

You can find Sara-Mae’s podcast work under the Fable Gazers banner. Her current series is Heyer Today, tracks the life and work of Georgette Heyer.

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