List Envy

Musician, writer and improv comedian Tom Clabon joins Mark to fight about which of Birmingham’s bands are best, and possibly what the word “definitive” means.

And by Birmingham, we mean Birmingham. The proper one, in the UK.

Tom has performed in bands (like Bussy ), and like Mark knows the pain of publishing music to Bandcamp to little fanfare. But they’re both absolutely not bitter about it. Tom also presented Indie Mixtape on local station Brum Radio.

The pair share gig-playing memories, the venues they’ve nearly been thrown out of (Mark), and the ones they’ve scammed their way into (Tom’s dad).

If you’ve heard of the majority of Tom’s picks, then you already know more about Birmingham’s music scene in 2019 than Mark does. If you’ve heard of the majority of Mark’s picks, then you’re a granddad and death will claim you soon.

Also, Mark tries to coin a phrase for the pro-life movement, but doesn’t do a good job, and Tom threatens to give Mark a weird handshake.

Get the Spotify playlist

To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the bands we mention — even the ones Mark doesn’t like – sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter.

Honourable mentions

Dexys Midnight Runners

Duran Duran

UB40

Editors (we ❤️ throaty men)

Rhino and the Ranters

Independent Country

Pram (it’s not a theremin)

The Streets (Mark doesn’t like them)

Spencer Davis Group

Exhailers

Sunshine Frisbee Laserbeam

The Move

Black Sabbath

Fine Young Cannibals

Steel Pulse

Musical Youth

The Beat

The Electric Swing Circus

Napalm Death

The Twang

Bentley Rhythm Ace

Wizzard

Tom’s picks

In order of discussion:

Johnny Foreigner

Tom saw two members of this indie four-piece play when he was learning to be a sound engineer.

Mutes

This Krautrock project just about makes the definition of “band”, but deserves notoriety for interestingness and reflective lyrics.

Hoopla Blue

Expect combinations of sounds you won’t hear elsewhere, from this neo-folk five-piece.

The Cosmics

This noisy garage punk band make Tom’s list because they’re really, really good to listen to.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Electric Light Orchestra

Mark argues that Alan Partridge favourite ELO is deserving of a high place as an innovative and inspirational band. It’s worth noting that the song Livin’ Thing is not political.

Misty’s Big Adventure

Currently an eight-piece, but occasionally fluctuating in size, Misty’s are an eclectic and compelling listen, and personal favourites of Mark for the last 20 years. Also Dave Gorman likes them.

The Moody Blues

This three-piece 60s prog rock band hit the big time back in the day but don’t make a lot of noise about it, or so says Mark.

More of Tom Clabon

Check out Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, the podcast Tom co-hosts, and OK Stop, the improv troupe he and Mark can be found performing in, every month.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Tom Clabon.

Musician, writer and improv comedian Tom Clabon joins Mark to fight about which of Birmingham’s bands are best, and possibly what the word “definitive” means.

And by Birmingham, we mean Birmingham. The proper one, in the UK.

Tom has performed in bands (like Bussy ), and like Mark knows the pain of publishing music to Bandcamp to little fanfare. But they’re both absolutely not bitter about it. Tom also presented Indie Mixtape on local station Brum Radio.

The pair share gig-playing memories, the venues they’ve nearly been thrown out of (Mark), and the ones they’ve scammed their way into (Tom’s dad).

If you’ve heard of the majority of Tom’s picks, then you already know more about Birmingham’s music scene in 2019 than Mark does. If you’ve heard of the majority of Mark’s picks, then you’re a granddad and death will claim you soon.

Also, Mark tries to coin a phrase for the pro-life movement, but doesn’t do a good job, and Tom threatens to give Mark a weird handshake.

Get the Spotify playlist

To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the bands we mention — even the ones Mark doesn’t like – sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter.

Honourable mentions

Dexys Midnight Runners

Duran Duran

UB40

Editors (we ❤️ throaty men)

Rhino and the Ranters

Independent Country

Pram (it’s not a theremin)

The Streets (Mark doesn’t like them)

Spencer Davis Group

Exhailers

Sunshine Frisbee Laserbeam

The Move

Black Sabbath

Fine Young Cannibals

Steel Pulse

Musical Youth

The Beat

The Electric Swing Circus

Napalm Death

The Twang

Bentley Rhythm Ace

Wizzard

Tom’s picks

In order of discussion:

Johnny Foreigner

Tom saw two members of this indie four-piece play when he was learning to be a sound engineer.

Mutes

This Krautrock project just about makes the definition of “band”, but deserves notoriety for interestingness and reflective lyrics.

Hoopla Blue

Expect combinations of sounds you won’t hear elsewhere, from this neo-folk five-piece.

The Cosmics

This noisy garage punk band make Tom’s list because they’re really, really good to listen to.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Electric Light Orchestra

Mark argues that Alan Partridge favourite ELO is deserving of a high place as an innovative and inspirational band. It’s worth noting that the song Livin’ Thing is not political.

Misty’s Big Adventure

Currently an eight-piece, but occasionally fluctuating in size, Misty’s are an eclectic and compelling listen, and personal favourites of Mark for the last 20 years. Also Dave Gorman likes them.

The Moody Blues

This three-piece 60s prog rock band hit the big time back in the day but don’t make a lot of noise about it, or so says Mark.

More of Tom Clabon

Check out Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, the podcast Tom co-hosts, and OK Stop, the improv troupe he and Mark can be found performing in, every month.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Tom Clabon.

Musician and podcaster Brendan Hutchins joins Mark to discuss guitar music from the early 21st century.

Brendan loves pop punk for its energy and reasons of nostalgia, and has lots of names to bring to the table. He also helps Mark define what /isn’t/ pop punk.

Mark based his list on bands who had seminal or otherwise important albums during the early 2000s, and while Brendan’s picks are perhaps from slightly younger bands, none of them formed post-2005.

Mark shares stories about plectra, music he discovered through Kerrang! Radio, and stuff he used to play on his old radio show (like this from Of Kings and Captains ).

Brendan also sings the praises of Bowling for Soup’s guitarist, who performs tricks with his pick!

Hear the commentary track

https://naftpod.podiant.co/e/list-envy-commentary-1-an-emotional-reaction-37a91b10036a0e/

Hear Brendan and his Nobody Asked for This co-host Arron Wong discuss the first part of this episode, director’s commentary style.

Get the Spotify playlist

To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the bands we mention — apart from one that really doesn’t fit the bill! – sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter.

Honourable mentions

My Chemical Romance (too emo)

+44

Avril Lavigne (some of her new stuff is apparently quite good)

Box Car Racer

Charli XCX

Me First and the Gimme Gimmes

Motion City Soundtrack

Panic! at the Disco

Plain White Ts

Something Corporate

Wakefield

Yellowcard

Weezer

NoFX

The Descendents

Jawbreaker (who might not have been active around the early 2000s)

No Use for a Name

The Offspring

The Fratellis

Ash (check out their most lauded album, 1977 )

Feeder

The Matches

Fall Out Boy

Reel Big Fish (sort of)

Paramore

Papa Roach (who don’t really fit the genre because rapping)

Linkin Park

Jimmy Eat World

Taking Back Sunday

Brand New

Eve 6

Billy Talent

Student*Rick

If you’re interested in the rivalry between Taking Back Sunday and Brand New, check out this episode of The Sound and the Story.

Brendan’s picks

In order of discussion:

Goldfinger

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3134f729d0.jpg]

Brendan picks this ska-peppered, high-energy four-piece from LA. Mark wonders if they’re too aggressive, but Brendan quickly counters. Mark once saw them support Reel Big Fish, and both of them love Superman. Also Brendan recommended Counting the Days.

Blink-182

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3141d5fe60.jpg]

Although Enema of the State came out in the previous century, Brendan would appear to have made a solid choice in this cheeky Californian trio. But will pedantry win the day?

Good Charlotte

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3150feea00.jpg]

Although they faded a little from Brendan’s heart after their self-titled album, these Maryland boys still rank highly for both.

New Found Glory

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a315cd416c0.jpg]

Viewed by some — at least Brendan’s friend Aaron — these Floridians definitely have that pop punk energy, but is Brendan picking them out of a sense of duty, and will that ding him come the final reckoning?

Sugarcult

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined379d889ed7c520.jpg]

Mark had never heard of these Californians, but Mark was charmed by Bouncing off the Walls.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Sum 41

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30ec4e8c00.jpg]

Mark argues that this Canadian four-or-five-piece — depending on the era — have the right energy and sound, but they don’t even make Brendan’s honourable mentions.

Green Day

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30f82650d0.png]

This would appear to be a lock, but on /List Envy/, nothing is certain. This Californian trio jumped the shark in 2005 by going from talking about girls to talking about politics. Also Brendan saw them live, twice, and they were in his face.

Bowling for Soup

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30fee15690.jpg]

Brendan’s friend wanted these Texans bumped from the list, but Mark insists that Girls All the Bad Guys Want is definitive of the genre.

The All-American Rejects

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a310fcb2c10.jpg]

This Oklahoman four-piece don’t make it anywhere near Brendan’s list, which does not bode well for the final. Perhaps it could be considered a /Swing, Swing/ and a miss.

Fountains of Wayne

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a316682ba00.jpg]

Brendan’s never heard of this New York foursome, nor of their smash hit /Stacey’s Mom/. Mark’s case for adding them is not strong, as they fail on almost every test of the genre.

More of Brendan Hutchins

You can follow Brendan on Twitter, check out the Podcast Advocate Network and check out his new single, Fall Fast.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Brendan Hutchins.

Musician and podcaster Brendan Hutchins joins Mark to discuss guitar music from the early 21st century.

Brendan loves pop punk for its energy and reasons of nostalgia, and has lots of names to bring to the table. He also helps Mark define what /isn’t/ pop punk.

Mark based his list on bands who had seminal or otherwise important albums during the early 2000s, and while Brendan’s picks are perhaps from slightly younger bands, none of them formed post-2005.

Mark shares stories about plectra, music he discovered through Kerrang! Radio, and stuff he used to play on his old radio show (like this from Of Kings and Captains ).

Brendan also sings the praises of Bowling for Soup’s guitarist, who performs tricks with his pick!

Hear the commentary track

https://naftpod.podiant.co/e/list-envy-commentary-1-an-emotional-reaction-37a91b10036a0e/

Hear Brendan and his Nobody Asked for This co-host Arron Wong discuss the first part of this episode, director’s commentary style.

Get the Spotify playlist

To follow our Spotify playlist, full of all the bands we mention — apart from one that really doesn’t fit the bill! – sign up to Extra Envy, our free newsletter.

Honourable mentions

My Chemical Romance (too emo)

+44

Avril Lavigne (some of her new stuff is apparently quite good)

Box Car Racer

Charli XCX

Me First and the Gimme Gimmes

Motion City Soundtrack

Panic! at the Disco

Plain White Ts

Something Corporate

Wakefield

Yellowcard

Weezer

NoFX

The Descendents

Jawbreaker (who might not have been active around the early 2000s)

No Use for a Name

The Offspring

The Fratellis

Ash (check out their most lauded album, 1977 )

Feeder

The Matches

Fall Out Boy

Reel Big Fish (sort of)

Paramore

Papa Roach (who don’t really fit the genre because rapping)

Linkin Park

Jimmy Eat World

Taking Back Sunday

Brand New

Eve 6

Billy Talent

Student*Rick

If you’re interested in the rivalry between Taking Back Sunday and Brand New, check out this episode of The Sound and the Story.

Brendan’s picks

In order of discussion:

Goldfinger

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3134f729d0.jpg]

Brendan picks this ska-peppered, high-energy four-piece from LA. Mark wonders if they’re too aggressive, but Brendan quickly counters. Mark once saw them support Reel Big Fish, and both of them love Superman. Also Brendan recommended Counting the Days.

Blink-182

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3141d5fe60.jpg]

Although Enema of the State came out in the previous century, Brendan would appear to have made a solid choice in this cheeky Californian trio. But will pedantry win the day?

Good Charlotte

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a3150feea00.jpg]

Although they faded a little from Brendan’s heart after their self-titled album, these Maryland boys still rank highly for both.

New Found Glory

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a315cd416c0.jpg]

Viewed by some — at least Brendan’s friend Aaron — these Floridians definitely have that pop punk energy, but is Brendan picking them out of a sense of duty, and will that ding him come the final reckoning?

Sugarcult

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined379d889ed7c520.jpg]

Mark had never heard of these Californians, but Mark was charmed by Bouncing off the Walls.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Sum 41

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30ec4e8c00.jpg]

Mark argues that this Canadian four-or-five-piece — depending on the era — have the right energy and sound, but they don’t even make Brendan’s honourable mentions.

Green Day

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30f82650d0.png]

This would appear to be a lock, but on /List Envy/, nothing is certain. This Californian trio jumped the shark in 2005 by going from talking about girls to talking about politics. Also Brendan saw them live, twice, and they were in his face.

Bowling for Soup

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a30fee15690.jpg]

Brendan’s friend wanted these Texans bumped from the list, but Mark insists that Girls All the Bad Guys Want is definitive of the genre.

The All-American Rejects

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a310fcb2c10.jpg]

This Oklahoman four-piece don’t make it anywhere near Brendan’s list, which does not bode well for the final. Perhaps it could be considered a /Swing, Swing/ and a miss.

Fountains of Wayne

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined378a316682ba00.jpg]

Brendan’s never heard of this New York foursome, nor of their smash hit /Stacey’s Mom/. Mark’s case for adding them is not strong, as they fail on almost every test of the genre.

More of Brendan Hutchins

You can follow Brendan on Twitter, check out the Podcast Advocate Network and check out his new single, Fall Fast.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Brendan Hutchins.

Writer and Internet raconteur Jon Bounds joins Mark to build a list close to his heart.

Jon grew up on 70s sitcoms and wants nothing more than to share his love. If you’re in the UK, these might be shows you can check out on Yesterday or in film-form via Talking Pictures.

Jon is a student of erstwhile TV, a fact clearly demonstrated by his massive affection for the 80s tele-phenomenon than is Boon.

Mark and Jon’s differences in comedy tastes are perhaps best illustrated by the fact that Jon quite likes Not Going Out, and Josh, which Mark really doesn’t.

Honourable mentions

Last of the Summer Wine

To the Manor Born

Come Back Mrs Noah

Dad’s Army

Steptoe and Son

Till Death Us do Part

In Sickness and in Health, despite the great Ken Campbell

On the Buses, although Jon likes the holiday film

Sykes

The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin

Butterflies

Bless This House, which also made it to film

Only When I Laugh

Rising Damp

Going Straight (the sequel to /Porridge/)

Terry and June

Jon’s picks

In order of discussion:

Porridge

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fbdd5d2280.jpg]

Created and written by Dick Clement and Ian la Frenais, and starring Ronnie Barker Richard Beckinsale , /Porridge/ is set in Slade Prison and follows the exploits of inmates Norman Stanley Fletcher and Lennie Godber. The series also transferred to film.

Fawlty Towers

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fbed52d400.jpg]

Created and written by John Cleese and Connie Booth, and starring Cleese and Prunella Scales, /Fawlty Towers/ follows married hoteliers Basil and Sybil Fawlty, a small band of employees and a series of troublesome guests.

Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads?

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc0681f8c0.jpg]

Another offering by Clement and la Frenais , this is a sequel to the 60s slice-of-life sitcom The Likely Lads, starring James Bolam and Rodney Bewes as two working-class Newcastle mates, Terry and Bob (respectively).

It’s also another series that made its way to the big screen… ish.

Citizen Smith

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc1644da70.jpg]

Created and written by John Sullivan, and starring Robert Lindsay, this is often cited as Sullivan’s second most-important work to Only Fools and Horses. The series follows young Marxist and petty criminal Wolfie Smith, self-proclaimed leader of the Tooting Popular Front.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Open All Hours

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc277ccff0.jpg]

Created and written by Roy Clarke, and starring Ronnie Barker and David Jason, /Open All Hours/ is a gentle sitcom about a miserly shopkeeper, Mr Arkwright, and his young apprentice, Granville.

Man About the House

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc33b9bf30.jpg]

Created and written by Brian Cooke and Johnnie Mortimer , and starring Richard O’Sullivan, Paula Wilcox and Sally Thomsett , /Man About the House/ was a short-lived series following student chef Robin Tripp and his two female housemates, Chrissy and Jo.

Some Mothers do ‘Ave ‘Em

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc41c63e50.jpg]

Written and created by Raymond Allen and starring Michael Crawford and Michele Dotrice as married couple Frank and Betty Spencer, Mark’s third pick is a fried slice of forgettable slapstick.

The Good Life

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc4f0e0de0.jpg]

Created and written by John Esmonde and Bob Larbey, and starring Richard Briers and Felicity Kendal as Tom and Barbara Good, the series begins with Tom’s decision to quit his job and live off the land. Neighbours Margo and Jerry Leadbetter join a small cast of characters in this sweet show about escaping the trappings of modern 70s life.

More of Jon Bounds

You can listen to Jon’s new podcast, That Option No Longer Exists, read his writings on Paradise Circus, and follow him on Twitter.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Jon Bounds.

Writer and Internet raconteur Jon Bounds joins Mark to build a list close to his heart.

Jon grew up on 70s sitcoms and wants nothing more than to share his love. If you’re in the UK, these might be shows you can check out on Yesterday or in film-form via Talking Pictures.

Jon is a student of erstwhile TV, a fact clearly demonstrated by his massive affection for the 80s tele-phenomenon than is Boon.

Mark and Jon’s differences in comedy tastes are perhaps best illustrated by the fact that Jon quite likes Not Going Out, and Josh, which Mark really doesn’t.

Honourable mentions

Last of the Summer Wine

To the Manor Born

Come Back Mrs Noah

Dad’s Army

Steptoe and Son

Till Death Us do Part

In Sickness and in Health, despite the great Ken Campbell

On the Buses, although Jon likes the holiday film

Sykes

The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin

Butterflies

Bless This House, which also made it to film

Only When I Laugh

Rising Damp

Going Straight (the sequel to /Porridge/)

Terry and June

Jon’s picks

In order of discussion:

Porridge

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fbdd5d2280.jpg]

Created and written by Dick Clement and Ian la Frenais, and starring Ronnie Barker Richard Beckinsale , /Porridge/ is set in Slade Prison and follows the exploits of inmates Norman Stanley Fletcher and Lennie Godber. The series also transferred to film.

Fawlty Towers

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fbed52d400.jpg]

Created and written by John Cleese and Connie Booth, and starring Cleese and Prunella Scales, /Fawlty Towers/ follows married hoteliers Basil and Sybil Fawlty, a small band of employees and a series of troublesome guests.

Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads?

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc0681f8c0.jpg]

Another offering by Clement and la Frenais , this is a sequel to the 60s slice-of-life sitcom The Likely Lads, starring James Bolam and Rodney Bewes as two working-class Newcastle mates, Terry and Bob (respectively).

It’s also another series that made its way to the big screen… ish.

Citizen Smith

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc1644da70.jpg]

Created and written by John Sullivan, and starring Robert Lindsay, this is often cited as Sullivan’s second most-important work to Only Fools and Horses. The series follows young Marxist and petty criminal Wolfie Smith, self-proclaimed leader of the Tooting Popular Front.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Open All Hours

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc277ccff0.jpg]

Created and written by Roy Clarke, and starring Ronnie Barker and David Jason, /Open All Hours/ is a gentle sitcom about a miserly shopkeeper, Mr Arkwright, and his young apprentice, Granville.

Man About the House

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc33b9bf30.jpg]

Created and written by Brian Cooke and Johnnie Mortimer , and starring Richard O’Sullivan, Paula Wilcox and Sally Thomsett , /Man About the House/ was a short-lived series following student chef Robin Tripp and his two female housemates, Chrissy and Jo.

Some Mothers do ‘Ave ‘Em

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc41c63e50.jpg]

Written and created by Raymond Allen and starring Michael Crawford and Michele Dotrice as married couple Frank and Betty Spencer, Mark’s third pick is a fried slice of forgettable slapstick.

The Good Life

[image:https://media.podiant.co/spoke/listenvy/undefined3785fc4f0e0de0.jpg]

Created and written by John Esmonde and Bob Larbey, and starring Richard Briers and Felicity Kendal as Tom and Barbara Good, the series begins with Tom’s decision to quit his job and live off the land. Neighbours Margo and Jerry Leadbetter join a small cast of characters in this sweet show about escaping the trappings of modern 70s life.

More of Jon Bounds

You can listen to Jon’s new podcast, That Option No Longer Exists, read his writings on Paradise Circus, and follow him on Twitter.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Jon Bounds.

Mark talks to podcaster and “unapologetic Anglophile” Jen Tierney about the foods eaten and loved by “a nation of shopkeepers”.

As a young girl, Jen was persuaded to watch a BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, and has since made it her mission to consume all things Brit. As well as eating, Jen likes to cook, learning from /The Great British Bake Off/ and demonstrating more knowledge of British baked goods than the host of this podcast. Case in point: the popover.

Honourable mentions

Shepherd’s pie

Crumpets

Cheese board

Bangers and mash

Haggis

Welsh rarebit

Beans on toast

Friends don’t take friends to Greggs

This is a vital public service announcement, brought to you by an experience Jen had in Brighton. Brits, please do not take your non-British friends to Greggs, even for the lols. It’s just not worth it, even if they do now serve a sausage roll that the Internet freaked out about.

Jen’s picks

In order of discussion:

Afternoon tea

You’ve got your tea, you’ve got your scones — or scones, your pronunciation may vary — and a variety of things to spread on top of them. If you’re lucky, you have some tiny little cucumber sandwiches. But it’s all about the ritual.

Jen’s first pick may open up deep, centuries-old battle scars between Cornish people and Devonshire people, who to this day cannot agree on whether you put the cream on a scone first, and then the jam, or do it the wrong way around. (This rule does not apply to the American lunch staple, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich ).

Cornish pasty

This is Britain’s offering to the savoury pastry gods, joining the ranks of the empanada and the calzone. Jen got to experience this particular delight in a chain store in Brighton (which makes good pasties, at least Mark thinks so, although according to TripAdvisor, you should not try the veggie pasties).

Full English breakfast

Bacon. Egg. Sausage. Beans. Fried bread. Fried potato (if you’re good). Fried tomato (if you’re nasty). Black pudding (optional). White pudding (even more optional). It’s a comprehensive payload of complex carbs, proteins and fats… everything a growing girl needs. Just probably not every day.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Fish and chips

Mark is aware of the responsibility of building a definitive list, and so although he doesn’t hold battered fish in the highest regard, the suffix “and chips” — or as the Scots call it, “supper” — is a shoe-in for his number one. If you haven’t, you should try a saveloy.

Sunday roast

Roast potatoes. Mashed potatoes. Other assorted vegetables. Chicken or beef (or turkey if it’s easter). Yorkshire pudding. Stuffing. Gravy. Delicious. And then… and then… there’s the roast parsnip, the lying turd in the punch bowl that is the British Sunday roast.

Balti

Mark’s home city of Birmingham claims this curry — usually containing lamb but equally chicken or veg (because if you haven’t tried a curried potato, you haven’t lived) — as its own, having been introduced to Adil’s restaurant in the 1970s. Mark’s recommendation is lamb and spinach, and if you’re pushing the boat out, get a keema naan on the side. Next time you’re in Birmingham, come to the Balti Triangle and enjoy a taste sensation.

More of Jen

Mark was a guest on Jen’s erstwhile podcast back in March 2018, talking about some songs he’d made, but Jen has a new podcast all about parenting, called Our Parents Did What?, which, if you enjoy Sawbones or This Podcast Will Kill You, you’ll be sure to love (you’ll quickly become acquainted with how charming Jen is, as you listen to this episode).

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Jennifer Tierney.

Mark talks to podcaster and “unapologetic Anglophile” Jen Tierney about the foods eaten and loved by “a nation of shopkeepers”.

As a young girl, Jen was persuaded to watch a BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice , and has since made it her mission to consume all things Brit. As well as eating, Jen likes to cook, learning from /The Great British Bake Off/ and demonstrating more knowledge of British baked goods than the host of this podcast. Case in point: the popover.

Honourable mentions

Shepherd’s pie

Crumpets

Cheese board

Bangers and mash

Haggis

Welsh rarebit

Beans on toast

Friends don’t take friends to Greggs

This is a vital public service announcement, brought to you by an experience Jen had in Brighton. Brits, please do not take your non-British friends to Greggs, even for the lols. It’s just not worth it, even if they do now serve a sausage roll that the Internet freaked out about.

Jen’s picks

In order of discussion:

Afternoon tea

You’ve got your tea, you’ve got your scones — or scones, your pronunciation may vary — and a variety of things to spread on top of them. If you’re lucky, you have some tiny little cucumber sandwiches. But it’s all about the ritual.

Jen’s first pick may open up deep, centuries-old battle scars between Cornish people and Devonshire people, who to this day cannot agree on whether you put the cream on a scone first, and then the jam, or do it the wrong way around. (This rule does not apply to the American lunch staple, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich ).

Cornish pasty

This is Britain’s offering to the savoury pastry gods, joining the ranks of the empanada and the calzone. Jen got to experience this particular delight in a chain store in Brighton (which makes good pasties, at least Mark thinks so, although according to TripAdvisor, you should not try the veggie pasties).

Full English breakfast

Bacon. Egg. Sausage. Beans. Fried bread. Fried potato (if you’re good). Fried tomato (if you’re nasty). Black pudding (optional). White pudding (even more optional). It’s a comprehensive payload of complex carbs, proteins and fats… everything a growing girl needs. Just probably not every day.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Fish and chips

Mark is aware of the responsibility of building a definitive list, and so although he doesn’t hold battered fish in the highest regard, the suffix “and chips” — or as the Scots call it, “supper” — is a shoe-in for his number one. If you haven’t, you should try a saveloy.

Sunday roast

Roast potatoes. Mashed potatoes. Other assorted vegetables. Chicken or beef (or turkey if it’s easter). Yorkshire pudding. Stuffing. Gravy. Delicious. And then… and then… there’s the roast parsnip, the lying turd in the punch bowl that is the British Sunday roast.

Balti

Mark’s home city of Birmingham claims this curry — usually containing lamb but equally chicken or veg (because if you haven’t tried a curried potato, you haven’t lived) — as its own, having been introduced to Adil’s restaurant in the 1970s. Mark’s recommendation is lamb and spinach, and if you’re pushing the boat out, get a keema naan on the side. Next time you’re in Birmingham, come to the Balti Triangle and enjoy a taste sensation.

More of Jen

Mark was a guest on Jen’s erstwhile podcast back in March 2018, talking about some songs he’d made, but Jen has a new podcast all about parenting, called Our Parents Did What?, which, if you enjoy Sawbones or This Podcast Will Kill You, you’ll be sure to love (you’ll quickly become acquainted with how charming Jen is, as you listen to this episode).

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Jennifer Tierney.

This week, Mark is joined by podcaster, improv comedian and Harry Potter superfan Cat Turner, to collaborate on a list of the best five characters in JK Rowling’s Hogwarts universe.

If spoilers are a thing you want to avoid, maybe skip this one until you’re all caught up. Like Mark maybe should’ve.

Cat grew up listening to Stephen Fry read the Harry Potter books, and wants to sort her soon-to-arrive hamster into the appropriate Hogwarts house, but she insists she isn’t a nerd about it.

Mark’s seen some of the Harry Potter films and listened, a little distractedly, to the first four Potter audiobooks.

As well as knowing everything there is to know about Harry Potter, Cat is also a maths genius, which is something she credits partially with her own Professor McGonagall. Cat also presents Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, a podcast uncovering the weird things people believe, like that the Titanic was switched at the last minute, or that Beyoncé faked her pregnancy.

Cat’s guide to Hogwarts houses

Gryffindors are brave, but if you self-identify as one, you’re an idiot.

Ravenclaws are clever but a bit up themselves.

Slytherin are cunning, but the less said about them the better.

Hufflepuff is clearly the best house. Work hard and stick to it.

We have bones to pick with JK Rowling

Put diversity properly into your book, and don’t try and retrofit it after the fact.

Rowling follows TERF s on Twitter.

The American Hogwarts equivalent, Ilvermorny, is problematic.

Honourable mentions

Here are some characters we like, but didn’t make it into our lists. If you finish the episode notes before you get to the end, relax; we know and we address it.

Dolores Umbridge

Ron Weasley, as well as his mum and dad

Nymphadora Tonks

Remus Lupin

Sirius Black

Cat’s picks

In order of discussion:

Rubeus Hagrid

We could all stand to be a little bit more like Hogwarts’ Keeper of the Keys and Grounds. He’s Cat’s top pick as a character with kindness, heart, and the ability to learn from his mistakes. She would have liked a little more back story into the character’s early life, as the son of a human man and a giant woman.

Regulus Black

While his brother Sirius was sorted into Gryffindor, Regulus was sorted into Slytherin and dragged into the Death Eaters. He’s a top pick for Cat as a once conflicted character who makes the ultimate sacrifice, for the right reasons.

Lavender Brown

Cat picks this true hero of Hogwarts and fully paid-up member of “the DA” because femininity should never be viewed as a negative trait.

Professor McGonagall

Cat likes Minerva McGonagall because she knows how to walk the fine line between a lightly conspiratorial chat with a student, and the discipline that’s necessary to wield as a Head of House. She also provided a much-needed moral compass to Dumbledore.

Dobby the house elf

Cat’s final pick is a character who adds some essential comic relief, but who also has a great amount of heart. Or had. You were warned about spoilers.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Professor Snape

Mark’s first pick presents as a baddy, but is a complex and contradictory character. Cat thinks he should grow up, and has some better suggestions if duality is the criteria.

Professor Dumbledore

Cat throws a dark spanner into Mark’s list by schooling him on the Hogwarts headmaster’s motivations, but Mark thought it was silly to build a top five list of Potter characters and not have him in.

Neville Longbottom

Mark will always pick an underestimated underdog, and he likes Harry’s classmate for the bravery he finds in himself in later books.

Hermione Granger

Although she might induce an eye-roll, Mark’s final pick is someone with a strong moral compass, a big brain and a big heart.

More of Catherine Turner

You can, and should, find Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities wherever you find fine podcasts, and follow her and the show on Twitter.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Catherine Turner.

This week, Mark is joined by podcaster, improv comedian and Harry Potter superfan Cat Turner, to collaborate on a list of the best five characters in JK Rowling’s Hogwarts universe.

If spoilers are a thing you want to avoid, maybe skip this one until you’re all caught up. Like Mark maybe should’ve.

Cat grew up listening to Stephen Fry read the Harry Potter books, and wants to sort her soon-to-arrive hamster into the appropriate Hogwarts house, but she insists she isn’t a nerd about it.

Mark’s seen some of the Harry Potter films and listened, a little distractedly, to the first four Potter audiobooks.

As well as knowing everything there is to know about Harry Potter, Cat is also a maths genius, which is something she credits partially with her own Professor McGonagall. Cat also presents Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities, a podcast uncovering the weird things people believe, like that the Titanic was switched at the last minute, or that Beyoncé faked her pregnancy.

Cat’s guide to Hogwarts houses

Gryffindors are brave, but if you self-identify as one, you’re an idiot.

Ravenclaws are clever but a bit up themselves.

Slytherin are cunning, but the less said about them the better.

Hufflepuff is clearly the best house. Work hard and stick to it.

We have bones to pick with JK Rowling

Put diversity properly into your book, and don’t try and retrofit it after the fact.

Rowling follows TERF s on Twitter.

The American Hogwarts equivalent, Ilvermorny, is problematic.

Honourable mentions

Here are some characters we like, but didn’t make it into our lists. If you finish the episode notes before you get to the end, relax; we know and we address it.

Dolores Umbridge

Ron Weasley, as well as his mum and dad

Nymphadora Tonks

Remus Lupin

Sirius Black

Cat’s picks

In order of discussion:

Rubeus Hagrid

We could all stand to be a little bit more like Hogwarts’ Keeper of the Keys and Grounds. He’s Cat’s top pick as a character with kindness, heart, and the ability to learn from his mistakes. She would have liked a little more back story into the character’s early life, as the son of a human man and a giant woman.

Regulus Black

While his brother Sirius was sorted into Gryffindor, Regulus was sorted into Slytherin and dragged into the Death Eaters. He’s a top pick for Cat as a once conflicted character who makes the ultimate sacrifice, for the right reasons.

Lavender Brown

Cat picks this true hero of Hogwarts and fully paid-up member of “the DA” because femininity should never be viewed as a negative trait.

Professor McGonagall

Cat likes Minerva McGonagall because she knows how to walk the fine line between a lightly conspiratorial chat with a student, and the discipline that’s necessary to wield as a Head of House. She also provided a much-needed moral compass to Dumbledore.

Dobby the house elf

Cat’s final pick is a character who adds some essential comic relief, but who also has a great amount of heart. Or had. You were warned about spoilers.

Mark’s picks

In order of discussion:

Professor Snape

Mark’s first pick presents as a baddy, but is a complex and contradictory character. Cat thinks he should grow up, and has some better suggestions if duality is the criteria.

Professor Dumbledore

Cat throws a dark spanner into Mark’s list by schooling him on the Hogwarts headmaster’s motivations, but Mark thought it was silly to build a top five list of Potter characters and not have him in.

Neville Longbottom

Mark will always pick an underestimated underdog, and he likes Harry’s classmate for the bravery he finds in himself in later books.

Hermione Granger

Although she might induce an eye-roll, Mark’s final pick is someone with a strong moral compass, a big brain and a big heart.

More of Catherine Turner

You can, and should, find Cat’s Cabinet of Curiosities wherever you find fine podcasts, and follow her and the show on Twitter.

Links

Support the podcast

Special Guest: Catherine Turner.