List Envy

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List Envy episodes

January 14, 2020Top 5 under-appreciated female authors
Writer and podcaster Sara-Mae Tuson kicks off a double-bill of brilliant women in literature. This week, Mark and Sara-Mae discuss under-appreciated female authors.

Sara-Mae is a writer who’s turned her natural storytelling abilities into podcasting magic. Her previous work, The Sugar Baby Confessionals picked won bronze in the Best Sex and Relationship Podcast at the 2019 British Podcast Awards, and she’s now working on a series all about the life and work of her first pick.

Mark and Sara-Mae discuss the value of being talked up to in literature, the perception of romance in literature, and the industry’s apparent reliance on classifying work, and putting authors and their work in boxes.

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for Mark and Sara-Mae’s Goodreads recommendations.

(00:00) - Introduction
(06:15) - Sara-Mae's pick: Georgette Heyer
(08:22) - Mark's pick: Victoria Wood
(11:00) - Elizabeth von Arnim
(14:52) - Mark's pick: Nicole Perlman
(18:56) - Sara-Mae's pick: Mary Stewart
(27:34) - Mark's pick: Gene Kemp
(34:03) - Sara-Mae's pick: Barbara Pym
(40:43) - Mark's pick: Abi Morgan
(44:20) - Sara-Mae's picks: Cynthia Voigt and Nancy Mitford
(51:42) - Mark's pick: Tamora Pierce
(59:08) - Reading glasses off
(01:03:26) - Building the final list
(01:06:04) - Fable Gazers

You can find Sara-Mae’s podcast work under the Fable Gazers banner. Her current series is Heyer Today, tracks the life and work of Georgette Heyer.
1 hr 11 min
January 14, 2020 Top 5 under-appreciated female authors
Guest
Sara-Mae Tuson
Writer of young adult novels, producer for a boutique podcast company, copywriter and editor.
Fable Gazers Season 2: Heyer Today
Sara-Mae Tuson (@saramaetuson) | Twitter
Writer and podcaster Sara-Mae Tuson kicks off a double-bill of brilliant women in literature. This week, Mark and Sara-Mae discuss under-appreciated female authors.
Sara-Mae is a writer who’s turned her natural storytelling abilities into podcasting magic. Her previous work, The Sugar Baby Confessionals picked won bronze in the Best Sex and Relationship Podcast at the 2019 British Podcast Awards, and she’s now working on a series all about the life and work of her first pick.
Mark and Sara-Mae discuss the value of being talked up to in literature, the perception of romance in literature, and the industry’s apparent reliance on classifying work, and putting authors and their work in boxes.
Here’s Mark’s appearance on Your Own Words, in which he talked about Grinny by Nicholas Fisk, and a little about Gene Kemp.
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Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for Mark and Sara-Mae’s Goodreads recommendations.
Sara-Mae’s picks
In order of discussion:
Georgette Heyer
Sara-Mae is a fan of the often looked-down-upon genre of regency romance, and considers Heyer to be the gold standard. This Wimbledon-born woman wrote not only romances, but thrillers, with over 50 novels to her name.
Elizabeth von Arnim
Von Arnim makes Sara-Mae’s list thanks to the elegence and insightfulness of her work. She wrote from the late 19th to the early 20th century, was a modern thinker, and at one time the breadwinner.
Mary Stewart
Sara-Mae picked this 20th century thriller and romance novelist for her vivid writing, her scene-setting, and her ability to place ordinary people into difficult situations, allowing them to do extraordinary things.
Barbara Pym
Sara-Mae’s next pick is described as “forever being forgotten, and forever revived”. Another author who derived meaning from the ordinary, Pym was once described as the most underrated writer of the century.
Cynthia Voigt
Voigt’s book The Runner was an eye-opener for Sara-Mae, as it gave her permission to worry less about conforming to society’s expectations.
Nancy Mitford
“Nancy the novelist” was a joint fifth pick for Sara-Mae, who wonders how much her writing would have been informed and affected by her life and her other (in)famous sisters.
Mark’s pick
In order of discussion:
Victoria Wood
Mark picked Wood as his first selection, as her writing work can sometimes go unappreciated. As well as an accomplished songwriter and musician, Wood was a highly successful standup, and through Acorn Antiques , Dinner Ladies and the mockumentaries in As Seen on TV , has created enduring comic characters.
Nicole Perlman
Mark’s second pick is a co-writer of Guardians of the Galaxy , Captain Marvel and Detective Pikachu. As a comic book screenwriter, her name isn’t usually up in lights, hence her addition to Mark’s list.
Gene Kemp
Mark picked this children’s and young-adult writer as a name he fondly remembered from his past, even if he seemed to be unable to recall any of her actual books. Kemp wrote about everyday characters living mundane lives, but brought out the drama through their inner monologues.
Abi Morgan
The creator of the TV show The Hour , and screenwriter for The Iron Lady is Mark’s fourth pick as a writer whose work many of us have enjoyed, especially within the UK, but that we don’t necessarily always attribute to the correct source.
Tamora Pierce
Mark delves further back into his childhood for his final pick, choosing to highlight Tamora Pierce and her Wild Magic book series.
More of Sara-Mae
You can find Sara-Mae’s podcast work under the Fable Gazers banner. Her current series is Heyer Today, tracks the life and work of Georgette Heyer.
Links
Support the podcast
1 hr 11 min
January 07, 2020Top 5 Cannon films
Thrill to the sounds of podcaster and movie-lover Ben Smith, sharing his top five shlockbusters with Mark Steadman. You won’t believe your ears! List Envy, in select theatres now.

Ben is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast with previous guest Mike McComb, and hailing from the same state as Mystery Science Theater 3000 has a keen eye for a film that’s so bad it’s good. But that’s not all the Cannon studio had to offer; some of the work is surprisingly meaningful, if buried under piles of rubble caused by explosions set off by breakdancing ninjas.

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some links to help you get your next bad movie night off the ground.

Mark especially is quite liberal with the spoiler sauce in this episode, so if you plan on watching any of these films, just be warned that the element of surprise — at least in terms of plot — might be diminished.

(00:00) - Introduction
(04:46) - Ben's pick: The Apple
(09:06) - Mark's pick: Lifeforce
(11:14) - Ben's pick: Brekain’
(13:57) - Mark's pick: House of the Long Shadows
(16:34) - Ben's pick: Ninja 3: The Domation
(21:41) - Mark's pick: Runaway Train
(26:12) - Ben's pick: Invasion USA
(29:57) - Mark's pick: Barfly
(33:22) - Popcorn time
(36:18) - More of Ben Smith
(37:38) - Building the final list
(38:58) - Honourable mentions and goodbyes

Ben is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast, and you can follow him on Twitter @benmsmith.
43 min
January 07, 2020 Top 5 Cannon films
Guest
Ben Smith
He solves the puzzles and bakes the cookies. Co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast.
Ben Smith (@BenMSmith) | Twitter
Thrill to the sounds of podcaster and movie-lover Ben Smith, sharing his top five shlockbusters with Mark Steadman. You won’t believe your ears! List Envy, in select theatres now.
Ben is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast with previous guest Mike McComb, and hailing from the same state as Mystery Science Theater 3000 has a keen eye for a film that’s so bad it’s good. But that’s not all the Cannon studio had to offer; some of the work is surprisingly meaningful, if buried under piles of rubble caused by explosions set off by breakdancing ninjas.
Get Extra Envy in your inbox
Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some links to help you get your next bad movie night off the ground.
Honourable mentions
Love Streams
Street Smart
Rockula
Masters of the Universe
Spoiler alert
Mark especially is quite liberal with the spoiler sauce in this episode, so if you plan on watching any of these films, just be warned that the element of surprise — at least in terms of plot — might be diminished.
Ben’s picks
In order of discussion:
The Apple
Also known as Star Rock for some reason, The Apple is a 1980 film telling the story of a global Eurovision competition equivalent. It’s a musical turned up to 11.
Breakin’
The film that spawned a thousand spoof sequel titles (yes, this is the one that had the sequel called Electric Boogaloo ), Breakin’ , from 1984, is the “save the rec center” story told through the medium of breakdancing.
Ninja III: The Domination
This time, the ninja is a woman! In 1984’s Ninja III , the main character is possessed by the spirit of a fallen ninja who must seek to regain his/her honour, sometimes on a golf course.
Invasion USA
This Chuck Norris vehicle from 1985 is essentially why we have Chuck Norris jokes. With Invasion USA , Norris was able to make the jump from karate star to full-on action star. If you only see one movie that destroys a mall in Atlanta this year, make it this one.
Mark’s picks
In order of discussion:
Lifeforce
Mark’s top pick, from 1985, also makes Ben’s list. The film has a good pedigree in both its writer and director, and is a Anglo-American collaboration based on a novel. But perhaps it was the bonkers premise that means it’s been relegated to something close to B-movie status.
House of the Long Shadows
This tongue-in-cheek horror from 1983 is a who’s who of British stars from scary movie days of yore. It’s also set in Wales, so that’s nice.
Runaway Train
This Jon Voight number from 1985 was based on an Akira Kurosawa film that never got off the ground. It’s a tense prison escape movie that turns into an action suspense story with the kind of heroic ending you just don’t see anymore.
Barfly
1987’s Barfly stars Mickey Rourke as a smart writer whose only real ambition is to make enough money from his work to buy the next round. It’s a rare departure into considered drama, for the studio.
More of Ben Smith
Ben is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast, and you can follow him on Twitter @benmsmith.
Links
Support the podcast
43 min
December 17, 2019Top 5 Eurovision Song Contest finals from the '00s
TV writer Mike McComb joins Mark to discuss the bizarre and beautiful magic of this European musical tradition. Enjoy this episode, and don’t forget to have a drink on Terry in song 9.

Mike is a Eurovision aficionado, having come to it via the Sounds Like Teen Spirit documentary. He’s not let being American and thus being geofenced out of most live broadcasts steer him away, as his work on the EuroWhat? podcast will attest.

Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some unmissable Eurovision recommendations you won’t get elsewhere.

(00:00) - Introduction
(10:26) - Mike's pick: Stockholm, 2016
(16:52) - Mark's pick: Düsseldorf, 2011
(19:36) - Mike's pick: Copenhagen, 2014
(22:50) - Mark's pick: Tel Aviv, 2019
(28:36) - Mike's pick: Baku, 2012
(31:50) - Mark's pick: Oslo, 2010
(35:18) - Mike's pick: Malmö, 2013
(38:30) - Honourable mentions
(41:14) - What makes a good Eurovision show?
(44:30) - A break while we tally up the votes
(46:44) - The EuroWhat? podcast
(49:42) - Building the final list
(50:38) - Goodbyes

Mike is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast, and you can follow him on Twitter @rube_goldberg.
52 min
December 17, 2019 Top 5 Eurovision Song Contest finals from the '00s
Guest
Mike Mccomb
Mike has been writing about TV online since 2008, when he started the blog WTF Little House on the Prairie? The blog was a project to practice writing about television analytically prior to getting an MA in Television-Radio-Film from Syracuse University, or as he likes to call it “TV Camp.”
The EuroWhat? Podcast | A Eurovision Song Contest Podcast for Americans
Mike McComb (@Rube_Goldberg) | Twitter
TV writer Mike McComb joins Mark to discuss the bizarre and beautiful magic of this European musical tradition. Enjoy this episode, and don’t forget to have a drink on Terry in song 9.
Mike is a Eurovision aficionado, having come to it via the Sounds Like Teen Spirit documentary. He’s not let being American and thus being geofenced out of most live broadcasts steer him away, as his work on the EuroWhat? podcast will attest.
Get Extra Envy in your inbox
Sign up to the weekly newsletter so you never miss a list, and for some unmissable Eurovision recommendations you won’t get elsewhere.
Mike’s picks
In order of discussion:
Stockholm, 2016
Both Mark and Mike felt that this year’s ceremony was the epitome of everything that’s wonderful about Eurovision, especially the sense of humour.
Copenhagen, 2014
This was Mike’s second pick as it was an iconic year for the contest, seeing Austria’s Conchita Wurst absolutely nail it, and bringing us more memorable and mockable Eurovision moments.
Baku, 2012
Mike appreciated this final from a European education perspective. It gave us the singing grannies, delightfully clunky hosts, and a consistent fan favourite in Euphoria , which was another winning song for Sweden.
Malmö, 2013
This was a surprise entry for Mike, but it snuck in as it was simply a solid year. The opening reintroduced the Parade of Nations, but perhaps the year was marred by a little too much dubstep.
Mark’s picks
In order of discussion:
Düsseldorf, 2011
Mark enjoyed the high level of earnestness from this year’s final, the host’s entertainment appeal, and the songs. For Mike, there was a consistency issue throughout the night, with all the favourites finishing in the first half.
Tel Aviv, 2019
Mark picked the 2019 final for its focus on interesting staging, and because he felt they didn’t try to go overboard with the showbiz sparkle, but instead were quite humble and sweet in places. Iceland’s entry was legit terrifying, though.
Oslo, 2010
Mark thought 2010 was a nice year, and felt it marked the beginning of a transition into the knowing, semi-ironically-detached period the content is now in. It was the first contest where Mike got fully invested, so it has a special place in his heart, too.
More of Mike McComb
Mike is the co-host of the EuroWhat? podcast, and you can follow him on Twitter @rube_goldberg.
Links
Support the podcast
52 min
December 10, 2019Top 5 rebooted Doctor Who episodes
Mark gets wobbly-wobbly and timey-wimey with tech YouTuber George Chachanidze.

The pair started by discussing their favourite incarnations of the Doctor, and then their favourite — or least favourite — companions.
Spoilers abound

If you’re not caught up with Doctor Whoand you intend to, be warned that Mark and George will spoil the hell out of it for you.

(00:00) - Introduction
(10:04) - George's pick: Heaven Sent
(13:28) - Mark's pick: Father's Day
(16:29) - George's pick: Blink
(20:56) - Mark's pick: The Beast Below
(25:19) - George's pick: Midnight
(30:05) - Mark's pick: The Impossible Planet
(36:27) - George's pick: Silence in the Library
(42:32) - Mark's Pick: World Enough and Time
(49:01) - George's pick:
(54:40) - A break in time
(57:10) - Building the final list
(59:20) - Honourable mentions
(01:07:31) - Goodbyes

You can follow George on Twitter, find him and Paul on YouTube discussing tech, and follow his journey living a life without a smartphone.
1 hr 11 min
December 10, 2019 Top 5 rebooted Doctor Who episodes
Guest
George Chachanidze
Host of the Snappy-Tech YouTube channel.
Fundraiser by George Chachanidze : George is smartphone-less for a year!
George Chachanidze 📵 (@g_chachanidze) | Twitter
Mark gets wobbly-wobbly and timey-wimey with tech YouTuber George Chachanidze.
The pair started by discussing their favourite incarnations of the Doctor, and then their favourite — or least favourite — companions.
Spoilers abound
If you’re not caught up with Doctor Who and you intend to, be warned that Mark and George will spoil the hell out of it for you.
Honourable mentions
The Family of Blood
Kerblam!
The Empty Child
The Eleventh Hour
Mummy on the Orient Express
George’s picks
In order of discussion:
Heaven Sent (S09E11; Peter Capaldi)
This highly dramatic and Groundhog Day reminiscent episode takes place shortly after the death of the Doctor’s companion Clara, and is pretty much entirely a monologue. The names of the two episodes got mixed up in the recording: Heaven Sent (the one Make and George both like) is the first in a two-parter that concludes with Hell Bent (which George does not like, and Mark couldn’t remember).
Blink (S03E10; David Tennant, Freema Agyeman)
Blink is regarded by many Whovians as the best of the revival. It introduces the Weeping Angels, who are older than the universe, and zap you back in time to feed off the energy displaced by the life you would have led. Or something.
Midnight (S04E10; David Tennant, Catherine Tate)
Another Doctor-heavy episode, this takes place on the planet of Midnight, which is made entirely of diamonds. It has a horror movie feel, but is almost a bottle episode (in as much as bottle episodes are often made out of a necessity to keep an eye on the budget.)
Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead (S04E08-9; David Tennant, Catherine Tate)
This two-parter introduces space archeologist River Song, who would be an important recurring character across multiple Doctor incarnations. It also introduces the Vashta Nerada, a species of space piranha
Dalek (S01E06; Christopher Eccleston, Billie Piper)
This episode reintroduces the Daleks in a Utah bunker filled with alien bric-à-brac. It brought them back defeated and weakened, which laid the groundwork for a new generation to be terrified by them all over again.
Mark’s picks
In order of discussion:
Father’s Day (S01E08; Christopher Eccleston, Billie Piper)
This episode came early on in the reboot’s run, and takes place in 1987, wherein Rose saves her dad from being hit by a car, only to unleash a squadron of time-devouring pterodactyls called reapers.
The Beast Below (S05E02; Matt Smith, Karen Gillan)
This steampunk episode takes place on Starship UK, which carries England, Northern Ireland and Wales — but not Scotland — on the back of a giant space whale, who is kept in perpetual agony to ensure it keeps moving. The finale of the episode see the Doctor’s companion Amy realise that the whale would’ve carried the citizens regardless, because it couldn’t stand to see the children cry.
The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit (S02E08-9; David Tennant, Billie Piper)
This two-parter takes place on a planet that we believe to be Hell, and where the villain is the actual devil. It introduced the Ood, and wasn’t afraid to make religious points (given that this is a show for children).
World Enough and Time (S10E11; Peter Capaldi, Pearl Mackie, Matt Lucas)
The first in a two-parter that sees Bill become a Cyberman, Mark picked this for very specific reasons.
More of George Chachanidze
You can follow George on Twitter, find him and Paul on YouTube discussing tech, and follow his journey living a life without a smartphone.
Links
Support the podcast
1 hr 11 min
December 03, 2019Top 5 Christmas songs
The Christmas season begins with Mark talking to Daz Wright of Moselele, about the best songs to ring in the festivities.

Daz is a musician, and a founder-member of the Birmingham-based ukulele group Moselele. He’s also a big fan of Christmas, and delivered a sack full of joy to the List Envy studio, along with an honest-to-goodness Christmas cracker and actual sleigh bells.
(00:00) - Introduction
(08:08) - Daz's pick: Slade - Merry Xmas Everybody
(11:28) - Mark's pick: Greg Lake - I Believe in Father Christmas
(13:14) - Daz's pick: Elton John - Step into Christmas
(17:16) - Mark's pick: The Waitresses - Christmas Wrapping
(20:24) - Daz's pick: Wham! - Last Christmas
(23:18) - Mark's pick: The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl - Fairytale of New York
(28:02) - Maria Carey - All I Want for Christmas is You
(30:40) - Mark's pick: Johnny Mathis — When a Child is Born
(33:12) - Daz's pick: Weathergirls - Dear Santa, Bring Me a Man this Christmas (Part 1)
(35:56) - Mark's pick: Tom Jones & Cerys Matthews - Baby It's Cold Outside
(40:22) - Honourable mentions
(46:04) - Jingletime
(49:58) - Building the final list
(53:46) - And to all a good night

Join Moselele twice a month at the Prince of Wales pub in Moseley, Birmingham, to play popular songs of the day. And be sure to join them on Sunday December 22nd where they’ll be singing Christmas songs in the beer garden of said pub. Mark will be there, and we hope you will too.
57 min
December 03, 2019 Top 5 Christmas songs
Guest
Daz Wright
Every ounce of his being is focussed on discussing video games, cats and the popular music of the day. He live in Moseley in Birmingham.
Daz Wright (@dazwright) | Twitter
Daz Wright
The Christmas season begins with Mark talking to Daz Wright of Moselele, about the best songs to ring in the festivities.
Daz is a musician, and a founder-member of the Birmingham-based ukulele group Moselele. He’s also a big fan of Christmas, and delivered a sack full of joy to the List Envy studio, along with an honest-to-goodness Christmas cracker and actual sleigh bells.
Whamageddon
The pair discuss this real-world survival game. Like many pure things, Whamageddon has been co-opted by the corporate world, so we’ll stick with the original rules rather than those imposed by the Bauer Media corporation, who have attempted to make it their thing recently.
The object is to go as long as possible without hearing the original version of Wham!’s song Last Christmas (you won’t hear that version in this episode, so you’re safe).
It runs from Dec 1st until Christmas eve.
As soon as you recognise the song, that’s it, you’re out, and play resumes for you next year.
If you’re deliberately sabotaged, bad luck, but that’s not the spirit of the game. You’re still out, but the saboteur is a dick.
Honourable mentions
Mel Smith and Kim Wilde — Rockin’ Around the Christmas Tree Mike Oldfield — In Dulce Jubilo
Pretenders — 2000 Miles
Sia — Puppies are Forever
The Wombles — Wombling Merry Christmas
Bob Dylan — Must be Santa
Eels — Everything’s Gonna be Cool This Christmas
Garry Glitter — Another Rock ’n Roll Christmas
Wizzard — I Wish it Could be Christmas Everyday
Daz’s picks
In order of discussion:
Slade — Merry Xmas Everybody
This is, for Daz, a perfect Christmas song, as it falls into one of the main categories: nostalgia, a description of the Christmas day or event, and a shameless emotional trigger… and perhaps it embodies all three.
The Oasis cover Mark refers to was not done for the BBC’s Live Lounge series, but for the NME in a joint venture with the War Child charity.
Elton John — Step into Christmas
A late addition to Daz’s list, Step into Christmas is nothing if not meta, opening with the line “welcome to my Christmas song”. Daz calls it shameless, but you can be the judge.
Wham! — Last Christmas
You were promised that your ears would remain a Wham!-free zone, so the demonstrative track for this segment is brought to you by courtesy of the Crazy Frog (who still has 6.5 million YouTube subscribers). Daz enjoys that Last Christmas embodies the spirit of the day (as per his third category of Christmas song success).
Mariah Carey — All I Want for Christmas is You
Despite Daz describing Mariah’s vocal opening as “warbling nonsense”, he enjoys the chunka-chunka piano that follows… and frankly, who doesn’t? This easily satisfies the “emotional trigger” item of Daz’s Christmas song checklist, and who among us doesn’t want to be wholly owned by a quasi-religious semi-fictional wizard?
The Weather Girls – Dear Santa, Bring Me a Man this Christmas (Part 1)
Following on from, and largely borrowing from the success of It’s Raining Men , Dear Santa, Bring Me a Man this Christmas (Part 1) is pretty much the same song, but festive. If you haven’t watched the video, now’s your chance.
Mark’s picks
In order of discussion:
Greg Lake — I Believe in Father Christmas
Mark enjoys this quiet and conemplative ballad, that Daz describes as one of the more musically interesting festive offerings. But sadly, the line “the Christmas we get, we deserve” was not enough to make it Christmas #1, which ended up that year being Queen.
The Waitresses — Christmas Wrapping
Mark feels there is a “Dickens quality” to this story song (to be fair, it does start with the line “Bah humbug”), about loneliness and romance, leading to a joyful and merry Christmas day.
The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl — Fairytale of New York
Anyone who’s offended by the lyrics towards the end of this song has our axe, and there’s an argument to be had around the specific meaning of the word in that time and context, but for now, let’s focus on the fact that it’s a winter banger, and a wonderful piece of Christmas melancholia.
Johnny Mathis — When a Child is Born
It took eight songs before the pair got to one that actually described the li’l baby Jesus, but here we are. It’s.a crooner’s song, and pretty sappy, but it does fall squarely in that mid-70s bracket that seems to categorise Christmas songs.
Tom Jones & Cerys Matthews - Baby It’s Cold Outside
If you’re offended by any of the lyrics in this song, you’re a child and you don’t know what grown-up words mean (sometimes two consenting adults can do something naughty and that’s OK). Mark gravely prefers the cover over the original as he believes it packs more personality and fun.
More of Daz Wright
Join Moselele twice a month at the Prince of Wales pub in Moseley, Birmingham, to play popular songs of the day. And be sure to join them on Sunday December 22nd where they’ll be singing Christmas songs in the beer garden of said pub. Mark will be there, and we hope you will too. You can also follow Daz on Twitter.
Links
Support the podcast
57 min

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