Listener Questions – Gun Lawyer Podcast

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Mass shooting, Canada, gun laws, mental health, firearm license, self-defense, transgender, mandatory buyback, gun control, observational awareness, situational awareness, gun rights, New Jersey, firearm industry, de-banking.

SPEAKERS

Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2

Teddy Nappen  00:17

I’m Teddy Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. I wanted to kind of address this to the audience, as this has been kind of brushed over. There’s been multiple mass shootings, but there was one that caught my eye. They are trying to effectively bury in the stories. Like, I don’t even see it that much coming the news. The mass shooting in Canada! Every single one of the Left’s arguments on how to stop a mass shooting, everything that they push for, demonstrated in Canada failed. The Left always argues that stricter gun laws will prevent a mass shooting. If it saves one life. Even though  2.7 million lives are saved with self-defense uses of a firearm. If it saves one life. They always argue the accessibility of firearms –  that’s what leads to mass shootings.

Teddy Nappen  01:15

So, I want to kind of lean into this story where nine people were shot and killed, 27 were injured in the mass shooting in Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia. (https://www.junonews.com/p/exclusive-family-confirms-identity) It was a man identifying as a woman, which, you know, that’s one of the other reasons why they’re burying the story. It doesn’t fit the narrative of the straight, white, right wing conservative as the shooter. So, obviously we can’t talk about it. You hear from the North District Commander Ken Floyd of the gun person. Yeah, person. Always good to not misgender the school shooter. He murdered his mother, but also shot his step brother as well. Don’t bring up that fact. Also, a troubled house life, and the school that he shot up, of course, he was thrown out of the school. Police had been called to the home multiple times. They had multiple instances with this individual who had reported mental health problems. Huh, interesting.

Teddy Nappen  02:21

Oh, and it gets better. So, the suspect had a firearm license, which, by the way, in Canada, you cannot possess a firearm for self-defense – only hunting. Keep that in mind. Supposedly, the guns recovered were a long gun and a “modified handgun”. They don’t go into details as to what was modified. So, the suspect, the shooter, the man identifying as a woman, I’m going to repeat that, the suspect had dropped out of the Tumbler Ridge Secondary School four years ago and was not a student at the time. So, police had attended the suspect’s residence multiple times in the past several years, dealing with mental health occurrences. Hmm, wonder why? When he started identifying as a woman? You know, that usually leads to that 42% suicide rate. The only group that is close to that rate is paranoid schizophrenics. But you know, facts are transphobic and homophobic, apparently. This included one of the attendants where, two years ago, the firearms were seized under criminal code. He was Red Flagged! Oh, he had multiple mental health instances. So, obviously we’ve got to seize his guns. The very argument by the Left to stop mass shootings. But, of course, because the man identified as a woman, then of course, well, we can’t, we don’t want to be transphobic. Let’s give him, oh, sorry, her back his firearms.

Teddy Nappen  03:53

And, of course, suspect was born a biological male and then started transitioning six years ago. So, six years  ago, he started transitioning and identified as a woman. Two years ago, the firearms are seized, so then he can say, oh, sorry, I think I’m a woman, so give me back my firearms, even though the police have come multiple times for multiple mental health incidents. Other than that, though, let’s give him back his guns. So, right there we have a clear demonstration of the fact that his firearms were seized and then he got, you know, Red Flagged. They actually have it. I pulled the law under their Public Safety website emergency prohibition order. (https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cntrng-crm/frrms/rd-flg-lws-en.aspx) A judge issues the order if they believe the individual poses a risk to themselves or others. When the order was issued, firearms, and firearm license and other documents and other weapons may be removed up to 30 days, and you have a hearing date. He goes to the hearing date and says, I want my guns back. And here they are given back and then does the shooting. The level. It’s just so disgusting. The system works every time. He got the guns back, and then boom, goes right into a mass shooting.

Teddy Nappen  05:12

By the way, Canada is one of the most strictest places you could find for a firearm. You cannot get firearms for self-defense uses. They ban every form of semi-auto possible. Their laws are extremely, extremely difficult in order to get firearms. Also, Trudeau did a freeze on the sale, purchase, or transfer of handguns, stopping all handgun purchases. It’s still in effect. So, you can’t get a handgun to defend yourself. You have no means of purchase except for hunting, and every single one of the anti-gun, the gun rights oppressors, the Left’s whole argument about trying to stop mass shootings. We need all of these things. Well, Canada had all these things. A ban on extended mags. All the bans that you could have on every semi-auto possible, and it still wasn’t enough. And still led to a mass shooting. Every protocol failed.

Teddy Nappen  06:13

And by the way, this isn’t the first. Quite frankly, Canada is the inventor of the mass shooter. On December 6, 1989, at Montreal’s Ecole Polytechnique 14 women were killed as a student went through shooting up the place. (https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/polytechnique-tragedy) And that was their justification for all their anti-gun agendas. This is what they said, oh, we’ve got to go after firearms. He just walked through the school and just started shooting the people. They had no means of defense. Then in 2006 a gunman killed one woman and injured 19 others at Montreal college being (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/15/topstories3.internationaleducationnews) He was shot dead by the police saying he wanted to die like Romeo and Juliet. Okay. The man must have been an acting major, a fan of Shakespeare.

Teddy Nappen  07:00

And then cut to, I love this one. In 2020, Canada’s deadliest mass shooting. The shooter was Gabriel Wortman. His wife, Lisa Banfield, goes into details in her book, “The First Survivor: Life With Canada’s Deadliest Mass Shooter.” Wortman walks through and kills 22 people in the span of 13 hours, dressed up as a Mountie. He went across a 200 kilometer stretch. Shooting people for 13 hours, 13 hours. Going up and down, shooting and killing people. And no one was there to defend themselves. No one has any guns. This is in 2020. But the Left doesn’t want you to know that.

Teddy Nappen  07:44

Just like they don’t want you to know that every time when they hailed Venezuela as the great socialist experiment, when you have Bernie Sanders, who was honeymooning in the Soviet Union and arguing that Cuba has the best healthcare. They always move the goal post or they’ll memory hole it. Trying to make the argument. Oh, this doesn’t fit the narrative. So, we can’t talk about this. That’s how disgusting these people are. And by the way, they even have their mandatory buyback program in Canada. By the way, it’s a complete failure, too. They got like 200 guns. No one’s complying. And that was the thing that The Trace even argued. They said that the hardest part about running a mandatory gun buyback is compliance. Because unless you’re going to go door to door at the barrel of a gun and stealing people’s property, gun buybacks, mandatory gun buyback programs fail every time. So, this ends the debate. This factually ends the debate that every single means of gun control that they argue to stop a mass shooting will not stop a mass shooting.

Teddy Nappen  08:52

Not to mention that it is part of our culture where guns are. It’s, yeah, I’m trying to remember the numbers, and it was like 350 million. I can but it’s the we already have a mass number of firearms in the United States. So, the Nirvana fallacy, logical fallacy of trying to argue, if we just get rid of all the guns, there’ll be no mass shootings. No. Because the Left need to understand that there is evil in this world. There is evil. Yeah, they always say. They always try to justify it. Like, oh, I’m poor, I’m impoverished, I’m an illegal who came to this country. They always argue that, trying to justify evil and just accepting the fact. They try to mislabel evil. There is evil in this world, and you have to accept that there will always be terrible people wanting to commit terrible acts. Cut to, you know, taking a car and just running into a crowd of people at a Christmas parade. Cut to the U.K. with random stabbings and their mass pile of rapes that they don’t want to talk about. There will always be evil in this world, and they have to accept it. That is what needs to be brought. So, going on that cheery note, let’s talk about our good friends at WeShoot.

Teddy Nappen  10:19

Well, WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. It’s an indoor range where both myself and my father go to shoot. We love to go there. WeShoot is conveniently located right off the Parkway. They have some cool specials that I want to tell you about. The Smith M&P 9M 2.0 Compact is ready to roll. They have that. They’re also offering an M&P 9M 2.0 in metal. So, you can have your choice in metal or polymer. There is the Vortex Triumph, which is in all new optics. Pretty cool. The Vortex makes some good stuff. My father has some Vortex on his guns. They also have the Ross Martin RM1C, which is a striker fire, compact pistol that is really taking the gun world by storm. You should check out the Ross Martin. It’s a really good gun. And, of course, you want to check out the WeShoot girls. They’re featuring a number of folk, including Kristen Fernicola. Go to their website, www.weshootusa.com. You can see all these wonderful guns and models posing with wonderful guns. You will be glad you went to look at all that, I’m sure. And make sure you check out the range at WeShoot. Go to the range. You can go some fantastic training, too. Great pro shop right there in Lakewood, New Jersey. weshootusa.com.

Teddy Nappen  11:44

I also want to mention our good friends at The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. (ANJRPC.org) They’re quite busy fighting in the courts and with the legislation in Trenton. Murphy’s gone, but we did get some new laws. Of course, it’s a very tough environment, but we all get some changes that are critical. I’m glad to see modifications, although completely stopping when the folk have all the power is tough. The Association has made a big difference. We’re thankful, too. Because without The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, we would have no unified voice of an umbrella organizations, of our clubs and organizations. You need to be a member of The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. You’ll get a newsletter. The best newsletter in the state on guns. You’ll see email alerts, and you’ll know that what’s going on when it comes to our gun rights in New Jersey. That’s anjrpc.org.

Teddy Nappen  12:39

I would also like to shamelessly plug my father’s book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. The Bible in New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all questions and answers. It’s your guidebook to not becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, let me tell you some of the times people call up and ask, and it’s after the fact. I’m like, did you read the book? Did you read the book? We’ll still fight and defend you, but it would have been a lot easier if you never had the problem in the first place. And most of the clients would agree with that, I’m afraid. So, get your copy of the book today. Go to EvanNappen.com,  EvanNappen.com. Get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law.

Teddy Nappen  13:23

So, let’s get to Press Checks. As you know, Press Checks are always free. This is something I find very important, because I think people are forgetting, when the Left had their unfettered power. That’s why you’re seeing a lot of the Left moving to the trying to pivot to the center. Saying, like, oh yeah, we know, mass migration is bad. Yeah, yeah. And trying to, like, epically fail when asked how many genders there are. They can’t define what a woman is. But we have to remember that it’s not just the Left, but it’s the insidious institutions that they abuse. The fact that this is a term that I’m pushing for because it’s a fact. It’s gun deserts. The Left realize now that they can’t win in the public square of debate. Because with gun control, we can easily, we can easily defend and fight against it. And we can push back on every one of their points, because every one of their points are nonsensical. They’ve lost the media where we have alternative tech. There’s Rumble, and you have all the voices. X has become slightly more free. And because a lot of the big tech companies want to use AI, they’re allowing, okay, yeah, we’ll let the conservatives have their points and speak.

Teddy Nappen  14:57

So, this is the one bid. It’s the financial institutions. If you all remember the heavy issue of de-banking. I caught this article, and I was like, oh yeah, I remember that issue. (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20260209/jp-morgan-in-growing-trend-backtracks-on-anti-gun-policies) I love how JP Morgan says they’re going to roll back the de-banking that they were committing against gun shops and firearm companies. So, to give a little history lesson, this comes right from the NRA-ILA’s article of JP Morgan’s backtracking. I mean, this goes back to Obama Biden, like the 2010s, where firearm-related businesses were having trouble with Bank of America. Even though they said they didn’t have any corporate policy, we know they’re lying, of course. And then the allegations were getting worse, and Bank of America said, no, no, we don’t have any policy. Then finally, in 2014 they admitted under Operation Choke Point where they threatened to throttle any institution that exercises Second Amendment rights by pressuring banks to drop business, to drop businesses in the firearm industry. So, thankfully, President. Trump got in and stopped that operation. But it proved the point. We were right. The banks were weaponized against the firearm industry. They were trying to go after any form of gun shops or any firearm industries. You know, they can’t get a loan. Then my favorite one was when they were trying to do the credit card scheme. They were trying to track firearm purchases on credit cards.

Teddy Nappen  16:34

Also, I love this one where they would pressure firearm industry groups to not sell certain semi-automatic firearms, and also cutting back on standard capacity mags. They like to say high capacity, but it’s just standard capacity. Prohibiting the sale of magazines. Then, of course, the Left would tote saying, look at the firearm industry. They support our anti-gun movement. Well, you’re trying to de-bank me and lose my business. So, I have to agree with you. You know, if you point a gun at someone and demand them to say things, they’ll say things. It’s so disingenuous. At the point where there was a 2019 hearing where the institutions were hauled in. Coming to answer questions that they delved in when it came to banks working with firearm industry and forcing them to push the anti-gun policies. It’s the level of disgusting nature that comes into play. We need to remember that. We need to remember these institutions. Because when the pendulum swings, which it will, at some point, they will get back to business as usual. Attacking our rights. And even President Trump, right back in office, 2024. He comes back in and says to Davos. He gives a huge speech and points to the CEO. JP Morgan and everybody else, I hope you start opening your banks to conservatives. What you’re doing is wrong. Pointing it right out. Not saying, oh, the firearm industry. No, conservatives. Because that’s what it is. It’s conservatives that they are de-banking. It’s conservatives they are attacking and weaponizing.

Teddy Nappen  18:21

And even going back to the, I think it was the National Shooting Sports Foundation that even addressed this exact issue. In 2021, they testified in a Congress hearing stating that JP Morgan’s Chase would not lend to manufacturers of modern sporting rifles. There’s your proof, right there. So, remember this. Do not trust the big tech companies. Do not trust the banks. Because right now, the culture has shifted, but they are fully willing to get back. If you look at the donors to Kamala Harris, they all donated to Kamala. They all donated. They all heavily donate to Democrats. Only now, because we’re in power, they’re like, oh yeah, we’re for you guys. Yeah, okay. Enjoy chasing that AI trend while you guys won’t de platform us. But we need to remember that. So, we need to embrace and look to other means, because this is the games they play. We need to find ways around that.

Teddy Nappen  19:25

It’s time to finish off with the GOFU, everyone’s favorite. We need to. Also, this is a kind of a lesson in observational awareness. Jeff Cooper preached that idea of observational awareness. He even made a little game of X’s and O’s. Where, if you go into any room or place, you make sure you see everyone and make an O. And as you’re walking through, if you miss somebody who saw you first, give that one an X. Play that game in your head as a scoring method. Yeah, because observational awareness is key. I’m going to highlight that with an actual article from USACarry.com. (https://www.usacarry.com/man-fatally-shoots-attacker-while-playing-pokemon-go-in-anderson-indiana/) A man was attacked while playing Pokémon Go in the woods. He was walking through the woods and was playing Pokémon Go. A 51-year old businessman was playing Pokémon Go, a scavenger hunt, on his phone, and he was ambushed by a homeless man who punched him in the back of the head and stole his phone. At which time, he, you know, drew his firearm and fatally shot the man. It was ruled fully justified, because, first of all, you’re getting punched in the back of the head. People have died from that. And look, there may be more to the story of why it was justified, but the police and the prosecutor found that it presented and seemed like a strong case of self-defense. The fact that he was ranting and raving. But this is the point. This is a clear demonstration. He could have avoided that whole encounter, and it could have gone very bad very quickly. Because all it took is one Left wing prosecutor to say he shot an unarmed man, and his life would have been ruined. Observational awareness, situational awareness. Keep your head on a swivel. That is the GOFU. Don’t be a GOFU.

Teddy Nappen  21:19

This is Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws do not protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2  21:30

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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Gun Lawyer — Episode 277 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

GOFUs, New Jersey gun laws, vampire rule, sensitive places, unlawful possession, pretrial detention, federal injunction, carry permit, gun transport, Second Amendment, gun rights, legal advice, gun ownership, gun regulations, gun safety, gun culture.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:17

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:19

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:21

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you know our show here, one of the things that is very, very famous about our show are GOFUs. And GOFUs, as my listeners know, are Gun Owner Fuck Ups. The idea with GOFUs is these are real cases, actual things that happened. They are expensive lessons that people learn, and that you, the listener, get to learn for free. And of course, we always do the GOFU at the end of the show, whatever this week’s GOFU may be. But suddenly I’ve been pounded with GOFUs, and they’re very important. And I said, you know what? We’re going to do a three round burst here of some really important GOFUs, including what I want to begin with by telling you about this actual case. It illustrates just how insane New Jersey is and what every law-abiding gun owner could, in fact, face.

Evan Nappen 01:32

Of course, I’m not using any names, but this is an actual situation that occurred. And some things, looking at the situation that the, and not just necessarily a mistake that the gun owner did, but something that hit me as extremely important for every New Jersey gun owner to make sure they do. There’s a very simple thing that is very important that could be critical between whether or not they hold you in jail or release you. We’re going to get to that from this story so you’ll learn this secret, so that you don’t end up in this GOFU situation. Spending days or weeks incarcerated for nothing, because that’s what the Gulag does, as you know. This is a case that wraps it all up into that.

Evan Nappen 02:39

So, here’s this guy who comes into New Jersey, and he’s at a mall. Now, as you may know, the mall is not, in and of itself, a sensitive place, right? Those of us who have familiarized ourself, which hopefully all of you have, with these “sensitive places”. A mall is not, per se, a sensitive place. Now, there can be rules regarding malls where they say, hey, no guns in the mall. We don’t want guns, you know. And any Page – 2 – of 11

private property, whether open to the public or not, can have a prohibition privately saying we don’t want any guns here. In the same way they could say, we don’t want any dogs. We don’t want any bare feet. You know, things like that. The property owner has certain control. But if there is such a sign, if there is such a statement by a property owner, then if you come on to that property and they don’t want you on that property for a reason such as that. They can’t say, hey, we don’t allow minorities on our property. You know, they can’t. You can’t have racial discrimination in a place open to the public. But you can have other restrictions.

Evan Nappen 04:07

Now, I happen to personally think that firearms should be viewed as a civil right and in the same category as discrimination, because it is a civil right. But that’s not currently how the law is. So, if a private entity prohibits gun, says no guns, then if you still go on that property and you’re specifically told to leave and don’t, then you’re what’s known as a defiant trespasser. So, what we’re talking about is trespassing, but trespassing is not a sensitive place violation. Sensitive place violations are specific gun law violations that create a certain place that becomes a prohibited area under the law to carry a gun, even if you have a permit to carry. So, this person is in the mall and apparently gets approached by mall security, who has allegedly dogs that can sniff gunpowder. Believe it or not, they’re out there. Apparently, he’s approached and they say, we think you have a gun. Please leave. And he does. No problem. He was asked to leave, and he leaves.

Evan Nappen 05:30

After leaving, while in his car, driving, he gets stopped by police. More than even one because, oh, there’s a gun, right? Because, obviously, security called it in, I guess, at some point, and he was stopped. He is stopped for violating, in their minds, the sensitive place prohibition under Section 24 under Chapter 58 of the sensitive places. And what is that? What is that sensitive place that they believe he’s in violation of? Oh, New Jersey’s version of the vampire rule. The vampire rule is that you need permission before you go onto any private property. That is the issue that’s before the United States Supreme Court. The Hawaii, you know, the Woolford case in front of SCOTUS. We’re waiting for a decision.

Evan Nappen 06:43

Now, Hawaii had the law just like New Jersey. The only difference is New Jersey’s vampire rule case saying that you can’t go on to private property, whether open to the public or not open to the public, you cannot go on any private property in New Jersey unless you first have permission to carry your gun there. In other words, they needed to have a sign, you know, that says we love guns. You know, basically, guns welcome. You know, guns permitted. Essentially, a sign. Or you got specific permission from the property owner before you enter the property. Hence the vampire rule. You know, as long as you don’t invite the vampire in to your place. That’s where that comes from.

Evan Nappen 07:34

Well, New Jersey’s vampire rule, to impose this, you need permission first, before you can go on private property, even private property open to the public, has been found and was found unconstitutional in the Koons versus Platkin case. In Koons. And in that case, as you may recall, Judge Bump found it was unconstitutional and put an injunction on that section, saying it is unenforceable. It’s Page – 3 – of 11

unconstitutional. That any private property that is open to the public, you’re allowed to bring your gun on unless it’s otherwise a sensitive place. So, you know, if you want to go into a 7-11 with your carry gun, you can. It’s open to the public, even though it’s privately owned by 7-11. Now, if you want to go to a private residence, a private place that’s not open to the public, then you do need advanced permission for that. If you go into even your friend’s house, your friend needs to be able to say, yeah, you have permission to have your gun at my house. But not open to the public.

Evan Nappen 09:00

So, the mall is open to the public. The mall is not a per se sensitive place. Yet, in this case, the basis for stopping and arresting this man or woman, I won’t even tell you what the sex is, the basis for the arrest is an alleged violation of the sensitive place section for which there is a federal injunction against enforcement. Then because somehow there’s this belief that if you are in violation of sensitive place, you’re also unlawfully carrying even though you have a carry permit, which makes absolutely no sense. There’s no logic to that. He’s charged with unlawful possession of a handgun without a carry permit, even though he has a carry permit. And, of course, with those gun charges, off to the Gulag you go. So, you are arrested, and you are put in jail.

Evan Nappen 10:16

Now, the Gulag kicks in, where there’s 48 hours in which the prosecutor gets to decide whether to seek pretrial detention. It is solely within the discretion of the prosecutor. And if the prosecutor decides to seek pretrial detention, you’re going to be held for another five days before there’s a hearing when we can actually argue to get you out. And with the new law that was just signed by Murphy, they can get an additional five days to make sure that the gun is operable, to get an operability report, which is irrelevant to the charges anyway. So, by this arrest, you actually have the opportunity to be incarcerated basically for two weeks, guilty of nothing.

Evan Nappen 11:08

What happened? Well, luckily, I got a call very quickly. When this person was in jail, loved ones got a hold of me. And this is on a Saturday, my friends, on a Saturday. Yeah. They do these on Saturday. They just hired me in time that I was able to get onto the court hearing 15 minutes before that first 48 hour time period, for that very first hearing where there’s no argument. The prosecutor either is going to say we’re seeking pretrial detention or not, but at least I could get on. And, lo and behold, I get on, and the prosecutor, big shock, is seeking pretrial detention, which means he’s going to be held or she is going to be held another five days or so, to have that hearing. It may be longer if they’re going to go for the operability nonsense, too.

Teddy Nappen 12:11

Doesn’t Bergen County always seek pretrial detention?

Evan Nappen 12:16

Well, it’s not just Bergen. And let me say this isn’t necessarily even Bergen, by the way, Teddy. But most counties have a policy of just automatically seeking pretrial detention on most gun cases. So, that’s not a big surprise. But what happens is, in this 48 hour period here, we still have the court appearance. But there’s nothing an attorney officially can do, because the prosecutor is given the sole Page – 4 – of 11

discretion. The prosecutor says, well, it’s gun charges with the Graves Act. Because, of course, the seriousness of the charge is second degree. You’re looking up to 10 years in State Prison. You’ve got a minimum mandatory three and a half years with no chance of parole. So, because of the seriousness of that offense and the Graves Act and it’s guns, we’re going to seek pretrial detention.

Evan Nappen 13:13

And the court says, you know, Mr. Nappen, do you have anything that you want to add? And I say, and here’s exactly what I did them. I said, look, I understand how much discretion the prosecutor has here. Normally, we just have to wait until the hearing in order to argue. But I have to say, and I make it clear here. I say, look, my client not only had a permit to carry and why the state can’t access it, you know, they took his wallet and he can’t get to his wallet. And for whatever reason, there’s some glitch in them trying to get it out of the State Police. I don’t know why, but the very basis for his arrest was for a law for which there is an injunction, a federal injunction, that’s been upheld even by the Appeals Court. So, you have law enforcement violating a federal court injunction and charging and utilizing a statute that is enjoined from being enforced.

Evan Nappen 14:19

So, in complete violation of that injunction, I make it clear that that is what is going on here with someone who has a permit, who has the lowest scores on the PSA of a one, one, that’s the lowest you can get. The PSAs are your flight risk and danger risk that they calculate into whether you’re to be released. Now they’re looking to hold them for another five to 10 days to even try to get them argued out. And at that point, the court officer actually says, well, counselor, there’s no argument here at this level. You’ll have to argue, you know, at the hearing when it gets scheduled. And I said, look, I’m not arguing anything. I said, do you know what I’m doing? I’m putting the State on notice as to the civil rights violation taking place on my client. At which time, the prosecutor says, look, we haven’t even had a chance to talk, and I said, no, we haven’t. I just got hired and got on here 15 minutes ago. Well, let’s talk. I said, okay.

Evan Nappen 15:24

We had a private conference, and when we came back, I’m happy to say that the prosecutor withdrew their motion for pretrial detention. My client got out of jail that day, and now we will fight these charges. I’m extremely confident in how that fight is going to go as well. So, folks, what are the takeaways? Look at the risk you’re running. Look at the utter and complete failure of the Attorney General of New Jersey to inform law enforcement as to the changes in the law by these court actions. Why are the police charging an offense which has been enjoined? Police should know better, but I’ll tell you what else. The Attorney General should be instructing, the way they’ve done so many other times on so many other things, to all law enforcement, explaining how that sensitive place has been enjoined. And how on public property, it is not a sensitive place where you need prior permission under the vampire rule. This hasn’t been done. So, you have what is essentially a false arrest taking place.

Evan Nappen 17:06

You have a system designed to incarcerate gun owners. It is outrageous, and you need to know that this what you’re up against. So, what do you need to do to protect yourself? Where’s the GOFU aspect? Well, let me tell you something that would be really important. Here’s what everybody should Page – 5 – of 11

do. Make sure your carry permit, make sure your gun licenses, are also, copies are given to your loved ones. People you can count on. Because if you get incarcerated and your wife or your parents or your brother is calling me and if they can get me copies of your carry permit or gun license that you otherwise can’t access, I can get that to the prosecutor. There doesn’t have to be a dependency for somehow getting it out of the State Police in time. Or finding it in some wallet that’s been confiscated and held in evidence in some other place, in some other room, somewhere else. That can be of great assistance, immediate assistance, in addressing your arrest and avoiding further gulaging of you. So, make sure. The takeaway is to make sure that folks that care about you, that would be the people you would go to if you had a problem, that they can provide and have access to copies of your gun licenses. That would be incredibly important. The other thing is make sure you have an attorney that you can get a hold of right away. An attorney that can come to your aid, argue, to get you out on a Saturday where time is of the essence. Those are the takeaways that are critical from this experience.

Evan Nappen 19:08

Let me tell you, the GOFU has taken on a life of its own, and I’m glad about it. I have here a listener who sent a GOFU that they wanted to make our other listeners aware of, and I appreciate that. They asked that I not use a name, but here’s the GOFU letter. It says, I have a GOFU for you. It’s important for people to know to do this, so please share it on your show. This past fall, I planned a trip to Western New York to visit my family. I have a New Jersey PTC, also a PA PTC. I really like to have my gun along on trips with the highway driving. So, I asked a few guys at the shooting range what I should do with the gun when I got to New York state line. They told me to stop at a rest stop before I enter the state, put the unloaded gun in a car safe, and I should be good. That’s what I did. When I reached my destination, I told my family I had brought it, since they like guns, and they absolutely freaked out. They told me, the police would arrest me. It was illegal to bring a gun into a destination in New York. I better bring it in the house and keep it hidden. And hide it really well on the drive back. They really got me worried. So worried, in fact, I couldn’t get to sleep. So, I checked New York gun laws, and sure enough, she was correct. I was scared and felt terrible. I was incriminating my family members. Needless to say, the gun and the safe box and its cable were very hidden on the way back. I was careful not to break any speed limits. You can sum it up this way, but my takeaway is you have to do your own research before you take your gun out of state. Otherwise, you might end up in jail, and I’m very thankful that I didn’t.

Evan Nappen 20:50

This is very true. State lines mean something. Now, here’s where the GOFU was. The GOFU was not following Title, 18, 926A thoroughly. That’s the federal preemption that lets you transport interstate. You have to be going from one place where you lawfully can possess and carry to another place. Your end destination has to be a place where you can lawfully possess and carry. Since New York does not recognize New Jersey’s permit or Pennsylvania’s permit, and unless you have a New York non-resident permit, that will not cover you. So, bringing your cased and unloaded gun into New York, now you’re possessing a handgun in New York, and you don’t have the protection of federal preemption. That’s the problem. Page – 6 – of 11

Evan Nappen 21:42

And it is a GOFU. This person is absolutely right. Make sure you know the laws. Make sure you clear it with counsel, so that you do not end up a GOFU. Because if that person had been stopped in New York with that handgun while in New York, they would face dire consequences. So, know the gun laws. Know the state laws. Do your research. Best bet? Well, you can always ask me, that’s one thing you want to do. Get my book, New Jersey Gun Law. I’ll shamelessly plug my book right now, because right in my book is a chapter on how to properly interstate transport, right in there on transportation of guns. What you need to know. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the bible of New Jersey gun law. That’s the kind of stuff you need. That’s the kind of information you must have. That’s what you need to do. You cannot take these things lightly, because the consequences can be dire, and we see it. So, I appreciate this GOFU. I appreciate it being pointed out. These are real people experiencing the horrors of gun laws that are designed to ruin people’s lives and to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. To oppress our Second Amendment rights. That’s all these laws do. You’ve got to protect yourself, folks. Learn from these tips and learn from these cases so you don’t become the next GOFU.

Evan Nappen 23:16

Hey, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an range indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. The range where Teddy and I both shoot. We love WeShoot. Great training. Great range facilities. Great pro shop, and a great bunch of folks. This week they’re running some great specials. They have the Chiappa Rhino 60DS, which is a futuristic revolver with its low bore access design. It’s kind of cool. It delivers, you know, reduced recoil because of that and fast follow up shots. They’ve got a Mossberg Gold Reserve Sporting shotgun. It’s an over and under, built for clay and field. It has engraving, premium walnut, and it’s competition ready. It’s a beautiful gun. Check out the Mossberg Gold Reserve Sporting. They also have a Springfield Prodigy Comp gun, comp gun. A modern double-stack 1911-style performer. It has an integrated compensator, and it’s optics ready. It has serious speed for duty or competition. Check out that Springfield. And you can also check out Sarah Sablom. She is on the hunt for a perfect carry gun. You can check out one of these WeShoot girls there. Go to weshootusa.com for their great website with amazing photography. They’re running great deals. They look forward to helping you and making you part of the WeShoot family. Go to weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 25:05

Let me also mention our friends at The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, who just recently, through my friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, argued in the Coons case at the Appellate level. And we’re looking good. I’m cautiously optimistic. And that’s your Association at work in the courts, fighting the Carry Killer bill. They’re also fighting the assault firearm ban and the large capacity magazine ban. You need to be a member. Go to anjrpc.org. Make sure you belong to your state Association. They are the gun rights defenders for New Jersey. You’ll get a great emails of what’s going on. You’ll get the alerts. You’ll know that you’re part of the solution and helping to fight the gun rights oppressors in New Jersey. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Page – 7 – of 11

Teddy Nappen 26:08

Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this is something I want people to understand. We cannot take our foot off the gas when it comes to fighting the good fight for our rights. Because, look, we have had a lot of great victories when it comes to Second Amendment, to the conservative movement, and to getting the word out there, thanks to Alternative tech. But the Left are slowly trying to crawl back their power. What do I mean by that? Well, our friends at Bearing Arms did an article. Cam Edwards says, NBC decided to give a platform to the anti-gun activists. (https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2026/02/10/nbcs-today-show-gives-anti-2a-activist-platform-for-propaganda-n1231508) Oh, gee, what a shocker!

Teddy Nappen 26:59

It was Nicole Hockley out of the Sandy Hook Promise. You know, another one of Bloomberg’s groups who called in to demonetize online influencers in the 2A space. You know, someone like you and I, Dad. You know, people like a Brandon Herrera or Grantham, Mr. Gunzing. You know, any individual who is a pro-gun influencer they want to demonetize. That’s their call to action. I love the framework that she abuses in this. Sandy Hook and the group called Untargeting Kids, a call for platform transparency, putting parents back in charge of firearm safety. You know, whenever I hear the Democrats try to say, we need to stand on parents rights, it’s always comes down to oh, when it comes to firearm safety. But, you know, when it is hardcore pornography being offered to children, oh, that’s fine. Or, you know, a drag queen story hour. Oh, that’s fine. But oh no, when it comes to firearms, we need to give it back to the parents. So, they were trying to, yeah, they were trying to run this experiment, testing YouTube accounts mimicking a nine to 14 year old.

Evan Nappen 28:21

Wait. Are you telling me that the Left are hypocrites?

Teddy Nappen 28:26

Oh, well, as the saying goes.

Evan Nappen 28:28

I don’t know about that.

Teddy Nappen 28:30

As the saying goes, they only have double standards, or they would not have any standards at all.

Evan Nappen 28:37

Exactly.

Teddy Nappen 28:39

That’s how it always is with them. Whenever you see the term parental rights, you can see in the very corner, TM. It’s their version. Not when it comes to gender ideology, not when it comes to abortion, not when it comes to any other thing, but parents rights, TM. That’s their abuse of the language. Did you ever hear the word Democracy, TM. Or Second Amendment, TM. That is their version. Not what we know to be fact and truth. It’s their version. But anyways. So, they ran this experiment, which, you Page – 8 – of 11

know, these experiments can easily be debunked just by the abuse of algorithms. But whatever. We will say, for the sake of argument, we will say this data is true. So, they ran this experiment, and then 14 year old received 1300 firearm-related video recommendations after watching video games and movies that included firearm content. So, you know, a kid watches a bunch of Let’s Plays on Call of Duty, and then all a sudden, he gets a breakdown of an unboxing of a ACOG scope or something stupid. It’s one of those where they’re trying to make this argument, this very weak argument, on saying, oh, these videos are being monetized to target advertising, targeting our children. So, if a kid is interested in firearms, what is the problem with that? Why? He gets bombarded with tons of movies on all forms of graphic violence that goes into that. Then all of a sudden, it comes up with ad on any other influencer regarding firearm breakdown, because that’s the goal. They want you to get engagement. That’s it. And then I love this one. 54% of boys from 10 to 17 report sexually charged firearm content. Now, they do not define what sexually charged firearm content is.

Evan Nappen 30:40

What is sexually charged firearm content? What is that?

Teddy Nappen 30:43

It’s called we made it up! Because they love to just define terms.

Evan Nappen 30:52

They just threw sex with guns, and don’t define it.

Teddy Nappen 30:55

Correct. It’s just, and by the way, they don’t list any of the materials that was reviewed by the bots.

Evan Nappen 31:02

Wait, it sounds like ammosexuality.

Teddy Nappen 31:05

I know. Yeah, it is the hopalosexual all over again.

Evan Nappen 31:10

What is that? That’s really interesting.

Teddy Nappen 31:12

Yeah, and they don’t list any of the video game content that was reviewed. It doesn’t list any of the movies reviewed or the TV shows. Oh, because they don’t want to show the sexually graphic material that is pushed by the Left. You know, that’s why, you know, ask them.

Evan Nappen 31:28

They should list it. They should list all that so that we could carefully review it, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 31:32

Well, unfortunately. Page – 9 – of 11

Evan Nappen 31:34

All these sexual . . .

Teddy Nappen 31:37

I know, right? I love, and then she goes on where they’re forming the sense of self-identity that the get, that getting, they’re getting content that is talking about firearms makes you powerful. Firearms makes you sexually attractive. Firearms are the way to solve your conflict. Firearms are used to solve very certain conflicts. You know, when defending yourself against a rapist or a pedophile. You know, in certain situations, it’s a very good solution. It’s not a magic wand, but it solves certain issues. But there’s more. They like to always equate, like, oh, why do you need a gun? Because your penis is small? Like, it’s one of the small ones. Like, it’s that. They always do that. We’re like, what does that have to do with the aspect of your rights to defend yourself? Like that is the goal that they always try to play. And then she goes off on this whole thing of, we need to demonetize this. We need to review this content and look at the algorithms of YouTube transparency on firearms. And there must be. We need to sense. It goes. This long-winded conversation is just, we need to have time to deletion for videos for unsafe handling of firearms. What’s unsafe? Oh, there’s a firearm in the video. It’s just that. It’s just we need it. That censorship is not our goal, though. Yes, it is.

Evan Nappen 33:06

I’ll tell you what. Here’s where I’ll take them up on it. Before any movie or TV show where a gun is improperly handled, you know, shows produced by all these major media producers, just have a warning. Just the way they warn about profanity, and they warn about smoking. Put a warning that says “unsafe firearm use is in this movie”. Unsafe firearm use. Do you know how many times we’ll see that? Because the Left media is the largest actual demonstrator of unsafe and unlawful use of firearms. It’s not conservatives. It’s the opposite. And so, let’s see those warnings. That way people suddenly say, wow, look how many times firearms are abused, used improperly and used illegally in the movies? I mean, if you can warn about smoking, you should be able to warn about that. Just put it. Don’t, don’t, don’t suppress it. Don’t try to have prior restraint or ban it, the showing of any of these movies. Just put the warning up front, and let people see just what’s being promoted by Hollyweird.

Teddy Nappen 34:33

Well, and also, Hollyweird promotes all the sexual deviancies, where they push it on children. Where you have, you know, children have access to now hardcore pornography all across the internet, thanks to YouTube. Thanks to social media. Like, the level of it’s so disingenuous. Making this argument that we need to protect our children. Except when it comes to the LGBTQAI+ in schools, when it comes to all the other things that they want to sexually groom children. But, oh, firearm content, that’s the issue. When you get down to it, this is what they want. They want the 2019, they want the Biden Administration censorship. Where, right here, out of the House Judiciary Committee where the chairman approves and shows, oh, Google was pressured by the Biden administration to censor Americans. (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-white-house-pressured-facebook-to-censor-some-covid-19-content-during-the-pandemic) Page – 10 – of 11

Evan Nappen 35:30

That’s right. This is a really good point. They went after our First Amendment rights, just like the Second Amendment, and we lived through a period of Government censorship attempts that, when you look back, it was, it’s absolutely disgusting, what they pulled and what they were able to accomplish, even in achieving it, Teddy. It’s just insane. You would never think that could happen in America, because originally, the Left was for free speech. The Free Speech Movement was the Left, and now that’s no longer the case. They want the opposite. They don’t want free speech. Oh, hell no. But it used to be part of what true liberals, not today’s progressive, totalitarian liberals want, so-called. No, the classic liberal was absolute free speech, true, and they’ve abandoned that. They’ve abandoned it.

Teddy Nappen 36:41

Well, it comes back to the idea of what the Left always does. They have no moral framework. The idea of, oh, what feels good? What is the cultural shift? What is the shifting ideology currently? Where you now have these massive purity tests on the Left, and that’s why they’re in a shooting war against each other as to who controls the party. But to even highlight this fact, Mark Zuckerberg said and admitted to the White House, yeah, I was pressured by the White House to censor people during Covid, over Covid 19 content. Doctors admitting all the false information that was out there. Bring that up. Completely censored off of Facebook, off of YouTube, all these platforms. X. You remember, you remember the Twitter files. Musk is releasing them weekly, showing the insidious combination of Government and censorship on the public square. This is what the Left wants. They are so upset that they have lost their ministry of truth. You remember that push?

Evan Nappen 37:51

And they want to, right, and they want to use the same techniques to oppress the Second Amendment. It’s all part of the game plan.

Teddy Nappen 38:02

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 38:03

Well, Teddy, I appreciate you pointing this out, and I’m sure our listeners do as well. Let me tell you, we had a three round burst for GOFUs, and we only got two of the rounds out. Let me end here with the GOFU number three. And again, we saw this in action. These are actual cases, actual realities. I had a fellow client give me a call and say, hey, they were in court and they didn’t have counsel. Their guns were taken in an allegation of a so-called domestic violence, in which everything got dismissed. But there was an outstanding criminal charge that’s unfounded and going to the court. The so-called victim does not want to proceed. Does not want to proceed. So, what does the prosecutor do? The prosecutor tells this person, look, we’re going to downgrade this to a noise ordinance. Okay? So, it’s no longer in the category of domestic violence. If it stayed in that DV category, it makes you the equivalent of a convicted felon under federal law, and you’re banned from guns. The prosecutor said this way, with it as a noise ordinance, you’re fine. You’ll be perfectly fine. This will not affect your gun rights. Page – 11 – of 11

Evan Nappen 39:52

Now, this is a person who doesn’t have a lawyer. Who’s listening to the prosecutor, who is telling them they can plead this down to an ordinance. When the State’s key witness does not want to proceed and knows that the allegations that were made were not true and knows that it needs to be dropped. So, normally, the thing is, dismiss it straight out, because the complainant, the complaining witness, is not going to be real good for your case here. Okay? We all kind of see that, and it needs to go. But instead, the prosecutor is trying to convince this person to take this ordinance and pay a fine, get an ordinance hit, and saying that it won’t affect their gun rights.

Evan Nappen 41:02

Here’s the deal, folks. It does affect your gun rights. You see, when a prosecutor says it doesn’t affect gun rights, that prosecutor is not representing you. They’re representing the State. They’re representing the Government. And if you don’t have counsel to explain to you the actual ramifications and you try to believe this, you know, however well intentioned it may have been, they failed to mention here that, yeah, it’s not a per se disqualifier, meaning, like being a convicted felon or having a conviction for domestic violence, sure, where you’re just out of the box. You’re done. But the reality in New Jersey is that if you plead to even this dopey ordinance for noise, you now have a conviction for an ordinance that started out as a domestic violence charge. Then when you try to apply to get a new pistol purchase permit or renew your carry permit or do a change of address on your Firearm’s ID Card, they go, oh, public health, safety, and welfare. That’s what they’re going to use to deny your application. Public health, safety, and welfare. Based on character, temperament. You know, I call that disqualifier the all-inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, because that’s where the abuse of discretion comes in. And if you were to fall for this, oh, plead to the ordinance, it won’t affect your gun rights. Wait and see. Because now that comes up on your record and it links to the original charges, those police reports and all. And you ended up taking a plea, which has this appearance that you were guilty of something, and that’s why you pled. It sure as hell can affect your gun rights. So, friends, the takeaway is this. The GOFU is when you’re dealing on any criminal charge, make sure you have counsel that understands the gun laws and don’t try to rely on what a prosecutor may be telling you about how your rights will or won’t be affected.

Evan Nappen 43:20

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 43:30

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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Page – 1 – of 14

Gun Lawyer — Episode 276 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

New Jersey felony law, accidental discharge, Second Amendment, gun rights, reckless conduct, felony dingus, legal consequences, gun ownership, national reciprocity, pro-gun advocacy, government involvement, legal defense, gun laws, gun ownership statistics, gun control.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:17

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:19

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:20

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. New Jersey now officially has the felony Dingus law. That’s right, folks. It has to do with the criminalization of accidents. That’s it. They’ve been criminalized in New Jersey. Now let me explain why it’s the Dingus law. The reason I call it the Dingus law is that a number of years ago I was in Missouri. It was at the James Farm, Jesse and Frank James Farm. It was a great museum there. It’s a pretty cool place to visit if you’re into western history. You know, Jesse James and such is way up there of one of the fun topics to learn about. As a matter of fact, their famous bank robbery is still the record haul for any bank robbery in the U.S., ever. It was done by James and his gang. In terms of the amount of money stolen, in terms of the value of that money today, versus then, it is the record amount ever stolen.

Evan Nappen 01:41

But the thing that’s interesting to me about what happened when I was at that museum is I’m looking at all kinds of things about historical facts about Jesse James and his life and all. I’m reading some things, and it talked about “Dingus” at certain times. You know, talking about things that were going on between him and his men. And I’m like, Dingus, who’s Dingus? So, I asked one of the museum folks there, hey, who is this Dingus that they’re talking about? He goes, oh, that’s Jesse James. What do you mean Jesse James is Dingus? Who called him, you know, Dingus and lived, right? He’s like, no, no, no, no, no. His men did. His men did. What? Why? Well, you see, Jesse was apparently playing around with his gun, practicing spinning or screwing around with it, or who knows what, and he accidentally shot two of his fingers off. It was in front of his men. He shot his fingers off, two of them, and Jesse James would never use profanity. He may have been a stone cold killer, but he would not ever use profanity. So, when he shot his two fingers off, he said, Dingus! Now, I don’t know about you, but if I shot my fingers off, I’d say something a lot more than Dingus. But I guess his men fell off their horses Page – 2 – of 14

laughing, you know, and they nicknamed him Dingus. And I guess if you were one of his men, you could bust his balls and call him Dingus and get away with it.

Evan Nappen 03:36

But we call accidental discharges in my office “Dingus” cases in honor of Jesse James, of course. So, any accidental discharge is a Dingus case. Now, I once had a guy that shot himself in the hand with a Glock. And so that, of course, was a Dingus case. This was a number of years ago, and they tried to take away his firearms and his ability to be licensed under that. It wasn’t criminalized, but they did try to disenfranchise him of his gun rights. We fought it hard, and we were able to win and save his gun rights and his gun. About a year later, he shot himself in the hand again with a Sig. So, do you know what he was? He was a Double Dingus. That’s right.

Evan Nappen 04:40

Anyway, this new Dingus law, and look, accidents can happen. You can drive your car and have an accident. Accidents happen. But this Dingus law that New Jersey has passed is a felony Dingus law. It now turns accidents into a New Jersey felony. A felony level offense. It’s very important that you understand this, because now it is actually law in New Jersey, and you have to know your rights. You have to stand on your rights. Or you not only risk losing your Second Amendment rights, but you also risk becoming a felon, going to State Prison, and having your life essentially destroyed over this. Because becoming a convicted felon can dramatically affect your career, and your ability to earn a living. Your existence becomes one of a second class citizen, and not just in terms of gun rights.

Evan Nappen 05:52

So, I want to do a deep dive here into the felony Dingus law that New Jersey has now made law. And I want to make it clear so that you, my dear listeners, know what to do to protect yourself and hear it straight from me as to what you must do and how you must act. Because it will be difficult for some of you to do what I’m saying. It strikes to a certain degree against what might be your first reaction, but you have to do this. Otherwise the consequences can be dire. So, this new law that New Jersey passed, and it is officially law. It takes accidents and makes them felonies, accidents with firearms, into felony level offenses. And we’re going to take a look at how exactly that gets done. How the Legislature, in passing this law, has done it in such a bizarre way, or sneaky way, devious way, that the impact and reality of it is how I’m going to explain it.

Evan Nappen 07:13

So, the law reads, and you can read the bill that passed. It was A4976 and was approved by Murphy as one of his parting gifts on January 20 of this year. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_R2.PDF) It says, (1.a.) For the purposes of this act, “Recklessly” shall have the same meaning as set forth in N.J.S. 2C:2-2. Now, 2-2 is where the culpability standards for New Jersey law are laid out. Culpability is the establishment of the level of what has to be demonstrated in order to prove whether you’re culpable for the commission of that offense. These fall under the general requirements of culpability, and normally, culpability has to be proven. It’s a level of proof. Often we think of culpability as needing to show purpose fully. You do something purposefully. We do something knowingly, knowingly. But recklessly and negligently can also be culpability levels in criminal law, and New Jersey is now making “Reckless” as part of this law. Page – 3 – of 14

Evan Nappen 08:56

But reckless isn’t necessarily how you might generically think of it. It’s defined in this culpability statute as follows. So, this is where “Reckless” gets defined that they’re incorporating into the new law. (N.J.S. 2C:2-2.(3)) “Recklessly. A person acts recklessly with respect to a material element of an offense when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that, considering the nature and purpose of the actor’s conduct and the circumstances known to him, its disregard involves a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the actor’s situation. ‘Recklessness,’ or ‘with recklessness’, or equivalent terms have the same meaning.”

Evan Nappen 10:05

Now, if you’re having trouble wrapping your head around what I just said, we’re going to get back to it. But I wanted to give you that, initially, as we go through the bill, and I’m going to show you how it translates into reality under the felony Dingus law. So, New Jersey now says “reckless” is defined as what I just told you, and then they define structure. “‘Structure’ means any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, or airplane, and also means any place adapted for overnight accommodation of persons or for carrying of business therein.” So, any business establishment, any means of transport, and any room, building or ship is a structure, okay? Now the law says a person commits, oh, a disorderly person’s offense. Oh, well, that’s not a felony, Evan. That’s a disorderly person. It’s New Jersey’s version of misdemeanor. Yeah, I know that, but let’s keep reading.

Evan Nappen 11:21

Okay, folks. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm . . .” Well, you might think, why I’d never be reckless. I’d never be reckless. “. . . by recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds . . .” So, I guess you can recklessly discharge a blank gun, but whatever. “. . . recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds unlawfully or without a lawful purpose, except that a second conviction for such an offense constitutes a crime of the fourth degree, and a third or subsequent conviction for such an offense constitutes crime of the third degree.” So, what happens is this. It ups the degree if you have repeat offenses.

Evan Nappen 12:12

So, you say, well, look, man, if I have one problem, at least it’s just a misdemeanor, and it’s not a felony. I don’t become a felony Dingus problem in my life. Well, yeah, because here’s the next part. It says, a person who commits a violation of what I just said, subsection b., technically of this section, shall be charged with a crime of one degree higher than what ordinarily would be charged for such offense, where the violation occurs within 100 yards of an occupied structure. Whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So, in other words, if you have an accidental discharge, and that AD was done without lawful purpose, well, if it’s an accidental discharge, what was your lawful purpose for having an accident? Of course, there wasn’t one. It’s baked into the cake. There’s no accident done lost with a lawful purpose. Of course not. So, every accident now, unless you can show there was a lawful purpose to your accident, okay? Every accident done, every accidental discharge without a lawful purpose, within 100 yards of any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, airplane, place of overnight accommodation or where business is conducted, within 100 yards of any of those occupied places, that Page – 4 – of 14

makes it a felony level offense. A felony level offense. So, now you have your accidental discharge. It’s done without a lawful purpose. Now the law says you have to recklessly discharge a firearm without a lawful purpose. Remember, I told you what reckless was under the law.

Evan Nappen 14:24

Now, think about this. Let’s go back to that reckless. A person acts reckless with respect to a material element of the offense when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a material element will result from his conduct. Oh, conscientious disregarding a risk that you could, what? Have an accidental discharge. Meaning a discharge without a lawful purpose. And the risk must be of such a nature and degree that considering the nature and purpose of the actor’s conduct and circumstances known to him. Oh, did you know you had a gun? Yeah. Did you know that when you pull the trigger of a gun, it goes bang? Yeah. Did you happen to have ammunition? Yeah. Did you check to make sure the gun was empty? Oh, well, what’s this disregard involves a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the actor’s situation. Aha. Gross deviation from standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe. A reasonable person checks to make sure their gun is unloaded. Were you unreasonable in having that accidental discharge because you failed to ensure that your gun wasn’t loaded?

Evan Nappen 16:18

Well, let me tell you who’s going to answer that question. Ultimately, my friends, 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty. That’s who’s going to answer it. Twelve persons who most likely don’t know a whole hell of a lot about guns. And even if they do, they’re not going to like the fact that you didn’t ensure that your gun was unloaded. So, this means that if you have an accidental discharge, a Dingus within 100 yards of any of those, “occupied structures”, which basically is virtually everywhere, you’re now looking at a felony charge, which will make you a convicted felon. It will cost you your gun rights throughout the entire United States, because you’d be a convicted felon. You will face criminal prosecution in New Jersey and loss of your guns and your gun license.

Evan Nappen 17:32

So, what does this mean, folks? It means, if you ever have an accidental discharge, SHUT THE F UP!!! That’s right. You do not call the police if you had an accidental issue. You don’t incriminate yourself. You don’t talk about it to anyone. They have criminalized this. You have a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. They did not put any immunity in this law for reporting an accidental discharge. You not only have no obligation to report it, you have a specific Constitutional right now against doing it. Saying you have a right not to do it, because you have a right against self-incrimination. And they’ve made it what is a virtual, almost per se, strict liability, virtually, virtually, offense. At least, how in reality, it’s going to play out. If you have an accidental discharge within 100 yards of that structure and you didn’t have a lawful purpose, did you? Was it reasonable that you deviated from the standard of not ensuring that your gun was unloaded? You can see this felony Dingus problem here, and it now applies throughout New Jersey. Page – 5 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 19:15

One concern, though, Dad, is that. Does the law address, you know, malfunction? Because we’ve had plenty of stories, you know, from the both of the SIG 320 and / or various other pistols that do have, like, mechanical failures. Is that addressed in the law?

Evan Nappen 19:34

It’s not addressed in the law. And, you know, maybe if it was an actual SIG problem that can be proven, that it was mechanical, that that would be a defense at law here. You know that would be something where they’re not going to hold the recklessness standard to your conscious disregard of known risk. However, New Jersey has brought a suit against SIG itself for the problem with those guns. I wouldn’t put it past the Government trying to argue that you should have known the risk because you possess a SIG that’s known to have these problems, and we’re suing them over it. And how did you not know that your gun might have this problem? I mean, who knows how extreme they’ll go? I think it is conceivably a good defense, but they’re still going to fight that. I assure you.

Evan Nappen 20:37

But short of an actual mechanical defect in a gun, short of that, this law is a huge threat. It is essentially the equivalent of making, if we made every fender bender with a driver, a felony in New Jersey. You would then have a situation where you wouldn’t want to report any car accident. Because upon reporting it, you would immediately have a right against self-incrimination, and you’d be putting yourself in jeopardy of a felony. Well, this is what New Jersey has done with the felony Dingus law to New Jerseyans, and you need to know that. You’re going to have to stand firm on your rights. If you have an AD, the first thing you do is call your lawyer who understands criminal law and understands the gun laws, so that you can be advised on this. It’s critical. The risk here is great, and it will jeopardize your freedom, your livelihood, and your gun rights. You can get at least a year and a half as a maximum, if they go to just the fourth degree level with this offense. So, you’re looking at felony Dingus here.

Teddy Nappen 22:13

There’s a bit of irony. When you think about this law, I imagine just go from their perspective. Just the twisted mindset of the gun rights suppressor. In this idea, they’re trying to cut down on accidental discharges, but they’re going to go hidden because of that exact issue. It kind of goes. I remember being explained once in boxing. They did a rule change where they banned rapid punching. You know, we could do, like quick jabs, but in doing so, they required you to punch with an extended arm. They’re like, oh, we’re gonna cut down on the injuries. But it did the opposite. Because people were getting punched with an extended arm, it would cause more concussions. So, it’s just that level of almost self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s not doing anything. It causes the very harm that it meant to prevent.

Evan Nappen 22:59

It will. It will. Because now when you have this instead. Let’s say, if you have an accidental discharge, instead of investigating, seeing if it hits somebody or something, or where, when or what it did, you’re going to jeopardize yourself criminally. Now you have to stand on your rights. You’re going to have to just take the Fifth immediately and stand on your rights. Call your attorney. It’s completely criminalized, criminalized. And because of that, your criminal due process rights kick in. And we might, you know, Page – 6 – of 14

normally if they were smart, they would have had an immunity for reporting it. But they don’t. They don’t. There’s no immunity here. If you report it, you’re putting yourself in jeopardy, and you’re giving up your Fifth and Sixth amendment rights by so doing. It is a stupid law. It is not just a Dingus felony, a Dingus law. It is a law passed by Dinguses and signed by Dinguses. It is literally the felony Dingus law, and so aptly named.

Evan Nappen 24:10

Hey, on a different subject. Real quick, I just want to mention a landmark little factoid that I think you’ll find pretty cool. The U.S. has broken the firearm ownership number of 500 million. There are over 500 million privately owned firearms in the United States. Boy, that is fantastic. (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/us-civilian-gun-ownership-500-million/)

Teddy Nappen 24:49

We need to get those numbers up.

Evan Nappen 24:52

Yeah, right. We need to get those numbers up. According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, civilian gun ownership in the U.S. has surpassed the 500 million mark, reaching an estimated 506 million firearms, and the more guns means the more impossibility of banning and seizing them. There is strength in numbers. This figure is based on Federal Manufacturing and import data compiled from 1990 through 2023 using ATF records. And the estimate accounts for firearms manufactured domestically and sold, as well as firearms imported for the commercial market. It also said that there’s continued growth with the ARs in America. Since 1990, 32 million AR-type rifles have entered circulation. 32 million ARs. Talk about being in common use. 32 million. Kind of says it all. Anyway, so we’re way up there. And it says, looking specifically, by the way, at 2023, they said a total of 13,574,653 firearms were made available to the U.S. market when imports were included. So, that was that one year, 2023, over 13 million. Handguns accounted for the majority, with 8,176,000 units, followed by 3,899,000 rifles and 1,498,000 shotguns. So, this is great news. We are definitely the land of firearms, and the Second Amendment is strong in numbers. We’ve broken the 500 million mark for U.S. gun ownership.

Evan Nappen 27:23

One other quick note here that I find. A little tidbit here, and this is from militarynyi.com. Mossburg has received a new contract from the Pentagon for about $11.6 million. (https://militarnyi.com/en/news/usa-orders-mossberg-590a1-shotguns-with-custom-barrels-for-drone-interception/) It provides that they’re going to supply Mossberg 590A1 pump shotguns, which are great guns, by the way. I’m going to tell you about 590A1s in a minute. But what’s really cool about this one is that this particular shotgun is designed to combat drones. It’s made to shoot down drones. It has a 17-inch barrel with a specific configuration that’s designed for convenient placement in submarine racks. And it’s also made so that it can use special tungsten shot ammunition, tungsten shot ammo, to shoot down UAVs. And this is literally what the Government said. So, they’ve taken the 590A1s and the load, the shotgun load, is a two ounce number nine bird shot, a tungsten load. And it says it puts a large number of small tungsten pellets, creating a dense cloud ideal for hitting small targets. So, if you thought skeet shooting and trap Page – 7 – of 14

shooting was fun, how about tungsten drone shooting with Mossberg 590A1s. There you go, guys. Now we’re talking about a whole new sport.

Teddy Nappen 29:28

Do you remember Amazon delivering those packages with drones? Yeah, well, trap shooting with prizes.

Evan Nappen 29:37

Well, there you go. Trap shooting with prizes. But you know something about the 590A1, I gotta tell you. That’s really a great shotgun. And look, I have no financial interest in them. I just love that gun. That gun has a special thing about it when it comes to New Jersey. It is a pump shotgun, military spec shotgun. The 598 one is different from the 590 the a one has a thicker barrel, stronger receiver. It is a really tough shotgun, and it’s a pump shotgun. And because it’s a pump, it’s not semi auto. So, you can have a 590A1 in New Jersey. It can have a nine shot magazine in it. It can have a folding stock. It can have a pistol grip. It can have a bayonet lug, and they do have a bayonet lug. It can have all the whistles and bells on it and not be an assault firearm because it’s a pump shotgun. Only a semi-automatic shotgun falls under New Jersey’s assault firearm law. So, if you really want to have one of the best New Jersey legal combat shotgun with any of the fun features, then the 590A1 is unbeatable for New Jersey. And plus, when you rack that slide, any bad guy hearing that usually registers it in his pants, when you hear that racking going on. So, you should consider having one in your home defense. The 590A1, it’s a great gun. I don’t know if those tungsten loads will be available to the public or not, but this is fun stuff that I wanted to bring to your attention.

Evan Nappen 31:32

Hey, let me tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is our gun range that Teddy and I shoot at, and we love it there. They are a fantastic range right in Lakewood, New Jersey, and they have some good specials going on. They have a Sig Sauer P365 Flux, which is the evolution of the micro-compact carry gun, now paired with the FLUX defense chassis for enhanced stability, capacity and speed in a PDW-style platform. They have a Smith & Wesson M&P 9 M2.0 Compact, which is their carry size powerhouse with a flat face trigger, aggressive grip texture, built to perform under pressure with everyday reliability. And they have a Mossberg Gold Reserve Super Sport, a competition-ready over / under, an over and under, 12 gauge with eye-catching scroll engraving, polished blue finish, and a premium walnut stock built for the clay sports game. So, these are just a few of the hot guns being highlighted by WeShoot. You should definitely check them out. Go to weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 32:52

You can also check out Juliana. She’s fully locked in and in love with her MAC 5, showing off, the versatile fun a modern sporting rifle platform can be. So, go to WeShoot’s website – weshootusa.com. You can check out Juliana there with the MAC 5. You can also see the other great photographs that WeShoot prides themselves on. When you go to the range there, you will be very impressed. They have fantastic training, and you can get your certificate there to get your carry. You can also get all kinds of training for both beginners and experienced shooters, as well. They have top people on their staff. It is a great resource that you should take advantage of. Go to weshootusa.com and learn the best kept secret in New Jersey the WeShoot range, a fantastic place. Page – 8 – of 14

Evan Nappen 33:57

Let me also tell you about our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the stalwart defenders of our gun rights in New Jersey. New Jersey is one tough environment, as you know, and without a great group like the Association, we’d be even worse off. Can you imagine even worse? So we’re there. We’re there with the association. You need to be with us. I’m a member. You need to be a member. It is critical. They’re the ones in Trenton with a full-time paid lobbyist keeping track of the shenanigans going on there. And we’re able to make a difference. Believe it or not. We are. Plus we have the battles ongoing in the courts, and, man, I am excited for them. We have some appellate stuff going on now, an we’re going to be getting some great results. I feel it. I know it. We’ll be reporting about that and telling you all about it here on Gun Lawyer.

Evan Nappen 35:00

It’s a slow climb, because the wheels turn slow. But folks, it is. It is something where I know we’re going to be successful, and the Association is there for you, fighting for your rights. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Make sure you’re part of the solution. Join your official NRA state affiliate, the Association. You’ll get the email alerts to the legislative alerts and court results, and you’ll be on top of things. You’ll get a beautiful newsletter. The best in the state, so you’ll know what’s going on here in New Jersey, and you’ll have the resources of the Association behind you. So, go to anjrpc.org and join today.

Evan Nappen 35:58

And while you’re at it, make sure you get a copy of my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages in a question and answer format. It explains everything you need to know so you can avoid becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, do you need that because New Jersey is crazy. And to not be destroyed by the state’s gun laws, and instead be able to exercise safely and legally your rights. You need my book, New Jersey Gun Law. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. When you do get your book, right down there on the front cover, make sure you scan the QR code, and you can immediately join for free, my private subscriber base. You’ll be able to access immediately the updates, which I’ll have a new update coming out very shortly here, updating the new laws, doing a comprehensive 2026 Update. You get all that for free. So, your book stays current. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today. Teddy, what do you have for us today?

Teddy Nappen 37:15

Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. And look, everyone has been seeing it on the Left, where they’re all of a sudden now everyone seems to have become an expert on the Second Amendment. As you, which, every time I hear that, I think the words Second Amendment TM – trademark, because it’s their version of the Second Amendment. They never actually go into too many details. But I will say, and this is very funny. From MSN, from this writer, Adam Lynch, “‘Never seen a surge like this:’ Panicked liberals are stocking up on guns..” (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/never-seen-a-surge-like-this-panicked-liberals-are-stocking-up-on-guns/ar-AA1QuJEL) Huh! The 500 million mark is coming into play. But I love this. If you ever want to laugh, read an MSN article, because it’s just so, not just the propaganda, but the sourcing and how it works. It’s, okay. It goes. “NPR reports liberals and members of the LGBTQ community are buying guns to protect themselves as both the White House and national discourse grows increasingly hostile.” I love how Page – 9 – of 14

they cite their sources, NPR. Like NPR is a reputable source, but yeah. And I love this, a random unnamed Maryland Doctor. It just says Maryland Doctor. I’m not saying.

Evan Nappen 38:40

Oh, is he related to the Maryland man?

Teddy Nappen 38:43

I guess. I know. Maybe he’s from Venezuela or El Salvador. “I’m not saying that’s what’s going to happen. What I’m saying is none of this is out of the question.” In regards to, like, Trump is going to start kicking in doors on like just. And I love this. “Charles, who is black, says he bought his handgun after Trump administration did things that scared him . . .” Okay.

Evan Nappen 39:15

Well, I’ll tell you what. Every gun owner is someone with a vested interest in the Second Amendment. So, good. Yeah, good.

Teddy Nappen 39:24

And they decided to do interviews. They say 30 sources, unnamed, mind you. Where they’re saying NPR reports, the face of gun ownership is changing. Once perceived as the white, rural and Republican, gun clubs or trainers, Second Amendment advocates and academic researchers now say that liberals, people of color, and LGBTQ members have been buying guns and training with them since Trump’s re-election. First of all, I like how they separate people of color and Republicans when the mass.

Evan Nappen 39:54

The Second Amendment is for everybody.

Teddy Nappen 39:56

Yeah!

Evan Nappen 39:56

It’s for everybody.

Teddy Nappen 39:57

Yeah. And also they need to remember that Hispanics overwhelmingly voted for Trump and are leaning conservative. Blacks overwhelmingly, comparatively, Trump had the most vote of black Americans since dating back to Nixon. So, whenever they try to separate out and try to paint the Republican Party as racist. I always remind them of that. It’s just such stupidity on their part. But going into that, I did love this. So, Thomas Boyer, the spokesman for the San Francisco Chapter the Pink Pistols, said, “Armed gays don’t get bashed.”

Evan Nappen 40:37

Right! They don’t. Page – 10 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 40:39

I know. Didn’t you actually like, did they bring you on once, the Pink Pistols?

Evan Nappen 40:43

They made me an honorary life member of the Pink Pistols, believe it or not, which is fine, great. The Second Amendment is for everyone. And you know, it doesn’t matter whether someone is liberal or conservative or what their sexual preference or race is. It is all our right. All of us have this right, and we always want to be consistent. Whether or not politically I agree with anything on the Left, it doesn’t matter. In the same way that I support their right to free speech, even though I disagree with them. Rights are rights. And the point here is we can have common ground, and we’re seeing common ground. We’re actually seeing it. Because as more of the Left wants guns, that’s great. Join with us, and let’s pass laws that enhance the Second Amendment. As a matter of fact, think of it this way, folks. The anti-Second Amendment, the Second Amendment oppressors, they don’t want the Left to exercise gun rights any more than they want the right to exercise gun rights because they are anti-gun rights. We are pro-gun rights. We want all people. And every time anybody becomes a gun owner, they now get a vested interest in our Second Amendment rights. So, this creates that common ground, and that can include national reciprocity. It can include Pretti’s Law that we’ve talked about, right? It means this is an opportunity. So, don’t let the Left’s political views cloud our commitment to universal Second Amendment rights.

Teddy Nappen 42:56

So, going off of that, one of the things the article cited to was a group known as, I never heard of these guys, the Liberal Gun Club. It was from this firearm instructor, David Phillips. They have 30 chapters in other, in other states. And they said their membership has grown from 2,700 in November to 4,500. So, going off of that, I actually wanted to look these guys up to understand, like, what is a Liberal Gun Club? (https://theliberalgunclub.com/) Like it just, you just, you’re going off of that. I hear those two words, and it just doesn’t sound right. And so.

Evan Nappen 43:32

But, it is right. It is right.

Evan Nappen 43:35

But I know why you would think it wouldn’t be.

Teddy Nappen 43:35

I know.

Evan Nappen 43:37

Bingo.

Teddy Nappen 43:37

Yeah, exactly. And I went to their website, and this is what was funny. The common ground managers, where they go into, we are, they go into. They include and oppose the assault weapon ban as well as restriction of magazine capacity. Page – 11 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 43:37

And this view is directly related to our preference of an enforcement approach rather than regulation. Then, and what’s even funnier, the one thing that I found, the little nugget in their entire list, they are for national reciprocity.

Evan Nappen 44:11

The other factor is, and I dug deeper into them, they actually spoke out against Bloomberg and the Moms Demand Action.

Evan Nappen 44:11

Okay. So, look at this liberal gun group here, the Liberal Gun Club. Liberal gun group is against the assault firearm ban, against the magazine ban and pro-national reciprocity. Guess what? We’re all on the same page. This is our common ground. This is a common ground that we need to further develop. We need the pro-Second Amendment side to happily join in the same issues that we mutually support. Look, there are things we have differences about, without a doubt, okay? Most of the liberal agenda I am not, not, on board with at all, but that’s okay. Because the issue that I care most about, the issue that is my entire life’s calling and yours as well, Teddy, is the Second Amendment. And if this group is supporting what I support, then we can be together on those issues. We need to be together on those issues and not try to exclude or judge or separate anybody away because we don’t agree with the rest of their politics. I don’t care about the rest of their politics. That’s fine for us to have our differences, but this is where we’re together. And what you just said, there is great. We need more of that. Because that’s how we can finally get the rest of the Left to lay off our rights and to pass something like National Reciprocity, to quit trying to screw with us at every turn, to disenfranchise us from our gun rights. We can unite here.

Evan Nappen 46:09

Even better.

Teddy Nappen 46:12

Which they go into with the head president of the yet all actions they say you need to take is to donate to them. And what can they do with their donations, or, quote, unquote, saving lives and quote unquote, ending gun violence, or so they say. However, they spend, the national group spends most of their time advocacy related to gun violence focused exclusively on passing stricter gun control laws, which have already been disproven. So, they even agree that gun control fails. They actually agree it does not solve any of the issues that they actually are worried about. And they cited to a book, and this reminded me of one you brought to me once, it was “Restricting Handguns” by Don Kates.

Evan Nappen 47:07

Yes!

Teddy Nappen 47:08

Where it was the liberal. It was the liberal skeptics guide where, you know, liberals. Page – 12 – of 14

Evan Nappen 47:14

The Liberal skeptics speak out. Okay. Don Kates was one of my mentors when I first became a lawyer. And prior to becoming a lawyer, I was a member of the very first firearm law firm in America. It was Bennison, Kates and Hardy, and I was in the New York City law office of Bennison and Kates. I knew Don Kates and Mark Bennison, and Dave Hardy. Don Kates was out in California, and he was criminology professor. Don Kates was great guy, and he wanted to do this very thing we’re talking about here. Of cross trestling, of uniting, of making liberals see that the Second Amendment is critical for them as well as us. And so, his book “Restricting Handguns – The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out” was all about folks who you would normally think would be anti- Second Amendment and were not. (https://openlibrary.org/books/OL4408746M/Restricting_handguns)

Evan Nappen 48:26

Interestingly, Mark Benson, who was the other partner, was a former president of Amnesty International. But Mark was solidly pro-Second Amendment. I mean, Kates taught criminal justice and law in California. Okay? We’re talking about folks you might normally think of on the Left, but were actually hard-core Second Amendment great pro-gun fighters. I’ll tell you. Don Kates was the first guy that I ever met that carried a firearm, regardless. He said, Second Amendment, and that’s it. And I always was impressed how much he believed in the Second Amendment. He was fantastic. And it was great experience working for that firm and being part of the very first firearm law firm in America. Of course, now firearm law is an identified area of practice, but then people had never heard of such a thing. So, Don Kates, with this book, really had a lot of impact, and to this day, it’s still being utilized and cited because the Liberal Gun Club that you talk about is the same idea. And Kate was really ahead of his time in identifying this very thing. We need to join with the other side when they are with us on our issue.

Teddy Nappen 50:14

And what was really, really funny is he meant, and there was a similar book where he references a book called “Beyond Control” by Jacob Sullum. He talks about the racist roots of gun control and drug control. (https://www.beyondcontrolbook.net/)

Evan Nappen 50:27

There you go.

Teddy Nappen 50:28

And it’s that, it’s that inner weaving of the policies to actually put that in perspective, because everyone on the Left, like they typically, are in lockstep on this. But if we can turn this, just like with the trans issue, if we can turn this into a 90/10 issue, we could get national reciprocity. The vast majority like this. Imagine The Trace and Bloomberg having to, I just saw this, just on my feed, where they’re trying to say, don’t go out and buy firearms. Don’t, don’t kid. Telling their liberal followers, don’t go out and buy firearms, even though they’re all calling for the Second Amendment on it. It’s that level. They have so pushed. Page – 13 – of 14

Evan Nappen 51:12

They are so scared to death that, yeah, this very thing that we’re talking about here is actually happening and taking place. And we on the pro-gun side need to put out our hand of friendship to the other side when they’re with us on our issue. Because those that oppose us, the oppressors, are scared to death of it, and with good reason. This can make us win. It can get our rights back. This is the way to do it, folks. I honestly believe and have fought for this. And throughout my legal career, we’ve seen how the liberal causes so-called, whether you know, traditionally where they claim were pro-civil rights, yet they go after a single black mom. Shaneen Allen, who had a carry permit from Pennsylvania and happened to be in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey, gets put through the shredder. It’s the institutionalized racism that our good friend John Petrolino has talked about and shown in the permitting system. These are the things that are out there that the Left, historically, would have been concerned with, but somehow they block it out with guns. No, no. Join. Join together. This can get our movement over the top.

Evan Nappen 52:44

The other thing they can do. This will be the Midas touch. Once they see the National Reciprocity and start carrying, all of a sudden, all the things that they were supporting, Red Flag, Universal Background Check, both things are going to predominantly deny them their rights. Because I think there’s a statistic showing, I think, it’s 67 or 68% of liberals or Democrats have mental health issues which screws them out of their rights. So, this is the key to getting them to see that this is the path to victory of how to get the Second Amendment back. Then we can remove all these insane regulations.

Evan Nappen 53:22

Incrementally, get to where we need to be. Well, Teddy, I appreciate it. A great, great topic. And I want to tell you about this week’s GOFU, which is, of course, the Gun Owner Fuck Up, where actual clients, actual cases, where we see the problem, and you get to learn the lesson for free. And this week’s GOFU is pretty simple. Don’t involve the police in your life unless you absolutely have to. And what I mean is this. There are mechanisms in law that are there that people have no idea how it suddenly affects your gun rights. And that includes the so- called wellness check, even domestic violence, all these things where they’re played up as extremely important. And I’m not saying they aren’t. But it makes it so that individuals that invoke any of these laws and involve the Government in your life, next thing you know, guns are being seized. Individuals are losing their rights, and they’re having to fight to get them back.

Evan Nappen 54:36

Often it’s the very person that invokes the law itself. Yeah, we see this. We get cases where the person called the police to scare their partner or to just get more attention to it. But they don’t realize that gets the entire system to come down on them, taking guns and ruining lives. They have no clue of the impact once the Government gets in your life. Forget it. It’s going to be a fight. It’s the old, I think, Ronald Reagan said, you know, “We’re here from the Government. We’re here to help.” Yeah, that’s the joke, and it’s true. This is what happens. You get a wellness check done, and boom, guns are taken. You’re now fighting for your rights. We get these all the time. Look, I understand. If someone has serious problems and they need help, maybe you’ve got to do it. If you’re being abused, okay. But, you know, if it’s not something that the Government has to get involved in, do not involve the Government. Page – 14 – of 14

Evan Nappen 55:22

Over and over and over again, we get, I get the calls. I call them “the calls of regret”. The phone calls of regret. They’re GOFUs. And yet, for me to even say this, I’ll get criticized. How dare you say that? How about stopping me? We need to know call. I see the reality of it in the practice. I get the phone call of regret when you involve the Government. So, the GOFU is that be very, very careful. Very, very selective, if you ever want to put the Government in your life or a loved one’s life. Because the ramifications, particularly in the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey, can be very significant and can dramatically impact yours and your loved ones lives.

Evan Nappen 56:47

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

56:57

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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Gun Lawyer — Episode 275 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Second Amendment, Minnesota protest, Firearm Policy Coalition, natural rights, government officials, political opportunity, federal law, carry rights, red flag laws, gun rights, law enforcement, public carry, constitutional rights, gun policy, political reaction.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Speaker 1, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:18

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:20

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:21

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, we’ve been following the events in Minnesota, and I’m sure you have as well. And, you know, this is troubling. It’s created quite an interesting political situation, and it’s kind of strange to see sides shifting. Yet, it appears that this may, in fact, be a political opportunity to help the Second Amendment get strengthened. Let me tell you where I’m going with this. Take a look here at the Firearm Policy Coalition’s recent statement. (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-statement-rights-are-not-privileges) I don’t know if you’re familiar with the FPC, but they do a lot of great work in litigating through the court system, Second Amendment challenges. As a national group, they do good work, and they put out a statement that I thought was very interesting. It’ll lay the groundwork as we get a little bit more into depth about where I see some potential here that should be taken, frankly, advantage of in this interesting moment in time.

Evan Nappen 01:50

So, what the FPC wrote in their statement is this. “Recent events in Minnesota underscore a recurring and deeply troubling theme: Government officials and commentators treating natural rights as privileges.” Now that’s an important statement right there about treating rights as privileges. As they mentioned in the article, the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth, is merely codification of pre-existing rights. They don’t create the rights. The Supreme Court has long recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not a right granted by the Constitution. The Constitution simply is a guarantee of those rights and puts limits on Government, not the people. That’s why, if someone ever asked you, what rights are you given by the Constitution? The answer is none! Because those rights pre-exist the Constitution. The Constitution is there as a guarantor, guaranteeing those rights against the Government. And it puts limits on the Government to ensure that our rights stay respected. It doesn’t grant us rights. Only God granted us our rights, or natural law has granted those rights. Fundamental, fundamental natural laws. That’s what we’re talking about when it comes to actual rights. Page – 2 – of 9

Evan Nappen 03:18

So, this gets distorted politically by politicians who apparently seem to forget that. And here we end up in Minnesota, where this individual, (Alex) Pretti, came to this protest with a gun. The FPC points out that the mere presence of a firearm does not erase a person’s rights. It doesn’t turn lawful conduct into wrongdoing. It does not make someone fair game to be arrested or killed for the Government’s convenience. The Government does not get to flip the legal or moral burden. The fact that one is armed is not a license for the Government to shoot you! Nor is a right to bear arms a license for any person to use unjust force. And that is very strong and very true. This is where this situation now where Pretti ended up getting shot and killed by ICE for essentially bringing his gun to the protest. There’s a lot of dispute now over whether he used it, drew it, or whether he’s being disarmed, whether there was, I mean, there. All that’s out there.

Evan Nappen 04:43

But my point isn’t whether Pretti, as a matter of fact, I don’t even support Pretti’s political view here. I’m all for ICE. I’m not. I don’t want to see our country with illegal immigrants but that’s my view. That’s my opinion. Okay, that’s fine. And Pretti had his opinion. He has a First Amendment right, and he has a Second Amendment right. The problem is reaction to the exercise of his Second Amendment right. When you take a look at what happened here, it’s somewhat disturbing that those folks that are supposed to be understanding what the Second Amendment means take an anti-Second Amendment group’s view. So, Politico had an article. It’s “Gun Rights groups blast Trump over Minnesota response”. (https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/27/gun-rights-groups-blast-trump-over-minnesota-response-00748217) And in fact, they did.

Evan Nappen 05:47

Let me show you what has happened, where the tables and the issue has turned here. It’s very interesting, because I think it presents an opportunity that we’ll get to in a moment. So, for example, this is right from the Politico article. “FBI Director Kash Patel said Sunday on Fox News. ‘You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It’s that simple. You don’t have a right to break the law.’ DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said Saturday that she didn’t ‘know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign.’ White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Monday that ‘any gun owner knows’ that carrying a gun raises ‘the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you,’ during interactions with law enforcement.” I mean, come on. What the hell is with these people there? They are feeding into the Second Amendment oppressionists with this, with this stuff.

Evan Nappen 07:05

So, gun rights groups pushed back, and a number of them were particularly enraged by Bill Essayli. He’s the acting U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California, who posted, “If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.” What the “f” is he saying? Are you kidding me? If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there’s a high likelihood that they’ll be “legally justified in shooting you”. The NRA, okay? The NRA said that Essayli’s remarks were “dangerous and wrong” and called for a full investigation, instead of “making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens”. That’s the NRA folks saying that now to this Page – 3 – of 9

character. Aidan Johnston, the Director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, called Essayli’s remarks, “absolutely unacceptable”. That’s GOA. I mean, listen this quote from Johnston. “Federal prosecutors should know better than to comment on a situation when he didn’t know all the facts, to make a judgment in a case like this, and then also, just to make a blanket statement, threatening gun owners in that way.” And Johnston is absolutely right. It’s outrageous. And yet, yeah, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 08:48

I will say, just taking a step back and looking at what they’ve kind of just put out of their reaction. You brought a gun and all the other and there’s stupid comments. What they could have said, which would have been a very easy play, is the Second Amendment isn’t your right to attack law enforcement officers. All right.? It has nothing to do with the carry. It had to do with the fact that it is agitators obstructing and attacking ICE. That would have been the very easy statement, but no.

Evan Nappen 09:21

They focused just on the action and not the carry. But instead they focus on, oh, you come up to a law officer with a gun, they’re legally justified at shooting you. No, they’re not. They’re not. Unless you’re going to use it wrongly. Okay, we can all. And then the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus chair Bryan Strawser, he said, “We can all see what is on the video” what happened, and he’s not on the side of what the Trump administration is putting out. As a matter of fact, it says, an analysis done by the Washington Post that federal agents appear to have secured Pretti’s gun moments before an agent shot him.

Teddy Nappen 10:18

So, just to break it down, a little more from that which they’re ignoring. I love the mainstream media loves to ignore. They take away the first 30 seconds where it’s him getting into it with the officers, where they’re blocking traffic, where he’d been doing that all day, and the woman was also blocking traffic. The officer shoves her out of the way because they’re blocking traffic, obstruction, you know, a crime. And then he tries to be the white knight and gets in it with the officer. They’re trying to pin him down to arrest him. He’s still fighting. He’s still fighting. One of the guys sees a gun and yells, gun. He pulls the gun away. And during it’s like, I didn’t know the timing of that. It’s like only a second or so split, and you hear them shout, gun. And the guy draws his pistol and he fires, because it’s a split second. I think there is a Supreme Court case where you have to look at it from the officer’s perspective, from there.

Evan Nappen 11:13

And I can understand that. But what is disturbing is the key administration officials focusing on guns and gun owners and carry, instead of on the behavior of this person, which, arguably, is the real issue, and is what is the problem. Not having the gun. And then you combine that with, for example, Gavin Newsom, who, let’s face it, you know, he’s a Second Amendment oppressionist, right? I mean, he is. But what does he say? He says, “The Trump administration does not believe in the 2nd Amendment. Good to know.” So, okay, granted, he’s an opportunist here. But he’s actually seeing, even though we don’t believe he’s sincere, of course, but who knows? He’s seeing what’s wrong with what they’re saying. Even Newsom sees what’s wrong with their saying and then takes advantage of it in that way. Look, Representative Dave Min and Rep. Mary Peltola, one is a Democrat from California and the other Page – 4 – of 9

is a Democrat from Alaska. This is from the Politico article. They also used the moment to highlight the right to carry. Here’s their quote. “Joining the gun lobby to condemn Bill Essayli was not on my bingo card but here we are, Min said on X. “Lawfully carrying a firearm is not grounds for being killed.” So, there, look at that. A Democrat, Democrat, saying that, and Newsome even pointing out the hypocrisy of it. And here we have them really taking a terrible view of gun owners and carry.

Evan Nappen 13:27

If you step back from all this, I see political opportunity, and I’ll tell you why. Because what I think would be very, very good would be to propose what we would call Pretti’s law. It’d be Pretti’s law. And what Pretti’s law would do would be to create a federal, pre-emptive right to carry in public. Going directly at the legal issue, by the way, in the Woolford case, the so-called vampire rule and other forms of public carry. We need a federal law that preempts, preempts, any state from putting forward so-called “sensitive place” laws that interfere with the right to carry that the Left has acknowledged, the Left is acknowledging in their defense of Pretti. This presents an opportunity to tie in with that national reciprocity so that you have your right to keep and bear arms respected, and we push this with the Pretti situation.

Evan Nappen 14:52

In other words, why is it the Left always gets to take the situation and turn it to their advantage? Well, this is an opportunity for us to use this situation to our advantage, because you can see from what we just discussed that the Left is putting out that message. The Left is putting out the pro-Second Amendment message. The Left is seeing that carry was a right, that carry was fine for this, believe it or not, white male to be carrying. I mean, we should all be in shock that the Left is defending armed white males. Wow. But here they are. So, instead of letting this moment pass, let’s grab onto it. Let’s get a federal law that can go at and preempt, wiping out, sensitive place restrictions and getting through national reciprocity. We can do both of those things in this bill, because that is a solid focus federally on carry. That’s what we’re talking about here, and that’s what this situation highlights. Now is a chance to do federal protection of our carry rights, and it’s also a chance for the Trump administration to make clear their position in support of it as well. Here’s the common ground, folks. Here’s the common ground that this demonstrated, and I hope that someone takes advantage of it.

Teddy Nappen 16:40

Also, just taking a step back on the whole situation here. The one good thing about this administration that everyone can agree on is that they listen. The one thing that they, anyone can just stop and say, like you can have disagreements on different things, but they listen. They hear what the issue is. And I get the sense that Kristi Noem and Kash Patel are not 2A. They never had the 2A mindset. They never had that. You know, people always say, oh, I’m for the Second Amendment. What does that mean? What do they actually believe and stand for, for that? And I think this is a moment for them to realize and learn what that actually stands for, for the people, for us, for what that means for us. The ability to carry and defend ourselves. Where we don’t have security teams. We don’t have, you know, the full backing of the U.S. Government to protect us every single day. So, I think this is a chance for the administration to learn, and heck, they should appoint like a gun czar, a 2A Czar. Someone to advise them on these issues. If they don’t know, don’t just go to X or Truth and post it. Ask and learn, and then you can have be more informed on the issue. Page – 5 – of 9

Evan Nappen 17:55

That’s a great idea, Teddy. It would be really good for them to do it, and I’d be happy to have that role.

Speaker 1 18:01

Ha, ha, ha. Wow, yeah, man.

Evan Nappen 18:07

Yep, that’s good. Well.

Teddy Nappen 18:09

Yeah, he’s saying, like, all right. And then also legalize all machine guns. We’re closing down the ATF. Here’s a lot of recommendations.

Evan Nappen 18:17

I’ve got them, but here is one where politically, we are seeing the other side, actually seeing it our way. And that’s an opportunity that we shouldn’t lose. That’s the point of this. Well, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. An indoor range where both Teddy and I shoot, and we love it there. WeShoot is conveniently located right off the Parkway, and they have some cool specials I want to tell you about. They have a Smith M&P 9 M2.0 Compact ready to roll. They have that. They’re also offering the M&P 9 2.0 in Metal. So, you can have your choice in metal or polymer. They have the Vortex Triumph, which is an all new optic, right? It’s pretty cool. Vortex makes some good stuff. I have some Vortex on my guns. They also have the Rost Martin RM1C, which is a striker-fired compact pistol that is really taking the gun world by storm. You should check out the Rost Martin. It’s a really good gun.

Evan Nappen 19:37

And, of course, you want to check out the WeShoot girls there. They’re featuring a number of folks, including Kristina Fernicola. Go to their website. Go to weshootusa.com. You can see all these wonderful guns, and the models posing with wonderful guns. And you will be glad that you went to look at all of that. I’m sure of it. Then make sure you check out the range at WeShoot. Go down to the range there. You can get some fantastic training. They have a great pro shop right there in Lakewood, New Jersey. weshootusa.com

Evan Nappen 20:26

Also, I want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ve been quite busy fighting in the courts and in the legislature in Trenton. Murphy’s gone, and we did get some new laws, of course. This is a very tough environment, but they also were able to get some changes that are critical. And I was glad to see modifications, although completely stopping when the folks have all the power, is tough, but they made a big difference. We are thankful. Because without the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, we would have no unified voice of umbrella organization of our clubs and organizations. You need to be a member of the Association. Go to ANJRPC.org and join today. You’ll get the newsletters that are the best newsletter in the state on guns. Page – 6 – of 9

You’ll see the email alerts. You’ll know everything that’s going on when it comes to our gun rights in New Jersey. anjrpc.org

Evan Nappen 21:45

This is also when I shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It’s your guidebook to not becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, let me tell you, so many times people call me and it’s after the fact. I’m like if they had only read my book, oy vey. We’ll still fight and defend you, but it would have been a lot better if you never had the problem to begin with. And most of my clients would agree with that, I’m afraid. So, get your copy of my book today. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. At this moment, we have Teddy who’s going to tell us about Press Checks. What have you got for us Teddy?

Teddy Nappen 22:45

Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One of the things I always, I am always astounded by on the Left, because they try to act like they have knowledge and understanding of guns. We know, of course, the closeted hoplosexuals like (Josh) Sugarmann, who actually does know guns, but the vast majority of them do not know guns. I always think back, Dad, to your what was the quote, unquote “firearms expert” on fixed ammunition.

Evan Nappen 23:23

Oh, gosh, yeah. Experts testifying under oath that are just flat out lying. Flat out lying.

Teddy Nappen 23:32

So, yeah. And here is their new term that they’re trying to push. As I always believe in going to the, going to the gun right suppressors and see what’s their latest message? What are they pushing for? The new term that they have invented is “safeguarding”. That’s their new push. This comes out of The Trace, everyone’s favorite gun rights suppressor organization, written by Fairriona Magee. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/01/safeguard-gun-barber-red-flag-law-suicide/) Safeguarding. “Violence prevention groups and researchers have spent years working on initiatives to get firearms out of the hands of people who may pose a danger to themselves or others.” Hmm, through the risk, through extremist protection laws, known as Red Flag. Oh, yes. So, they’ve been getting so much flack about the legalized swatting that they have created. That they’ve been pushing through these insane Red Flag laws. So, I love this. While these laws have bipartisan support, oh, from a bunch of RINOs that are anti-gun and don’t believe in Second Amendment rights, but now the Second Amendment groups have launched a concerted attack on Red Flag laws in the court system. Gee, I wonder why.

Evan Nappen 24:52

No due process.

Teddy Nappen 24:53

Yeah, no due process. You get put in, you get locked up, you get labeled and all. Robbed. Firearms stolen and your rights and your life destroyed. Other than that. Page – 7 – of 9

Evan Nappen 25:03

Yeah.

Teddy Nappen 25:04

So, in this supercharged political climate, what are the other options? Well, we have it for you. Safeguarding. The process of taking, temporarily taking, control of someone else’s guns, if they have risk of suicide or harming someone else without involving the criminal justice system. So, what does that mean? That means, okay, if you think your friend may want to hurt themselves or hurt others, just simply say, hey, man, why don’t I take your guns? Let me just keep them in my house. I think you’re going through a rough patch. I’m going to take your guns. These ideas are somewhat analogous with laws that allow people to temporarily ban themselves from buying guns. So, Dad, I’m pretty sure they just advocated for someone to commit a crime in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 25:59

In New Jersey that would be absolutely unlawful because of the other anti-gun laws that they helped push, such as Universal Background Check. So, how do you temporarily give guns to somebody when there’s no transfer of guns allowed unless you go through a dealer and go through the permitting system and go through the entire process? You can’t just say to your buddy in New Jersey, hey, let me just take your guns. No, you can’t do it. It’s got to go through a dealer. You’ve got to do all the paperwork, the NICS check, the whole bit. So, good luck with that. Good luck with that. Because if you listen to what they are telling you to do, you will be committing a felony level offense, multiple felony level offenses, in New Jersey. There is no temporary transfer. This is, in fact, officially, this week’s GOFU, Teddy.

Evan Nappen 27:03

As far as I’m concerned, that’s the GOFU. Do not ever temporarily give your guns to somebody else in New Jersey, except under two very narrow circumstances. If you’re at the range, there is a law in New Jersey that allows you, only while the person’s in your presence, to let them try your gun at the range. Or if you’re hunting, and everybody’s legal and licensed and they’re there in your presence while hunting. That’s it. But that’s it. That’s the only temporary transfers allowed to adults legally. There is no provision in New Jersey that allows you to temporarily transfer your firearms or to take somebody else’s firearms temporarily because somebody might want to harm themselves, or you perceive that they’re thinking about harming themselves, or they tell you, hey, I’m thinking about harming myself. Or I would just feel better if you had my gun. Again, none of that flies in New Jersey. None of it. It is completely a violation of New Jersey gun laws. A violation of many of the laws that the gun rights oppressors have pushed to put in place in New Jersey. The reason you cannot do what they’re suggesting in New Jersey is because of their anti-Second Amendment gun laws themselves. So they pass and force the passage of these laws through their fellow comrades in the legislature and then give advice on how to violate the very laws, because they’re so clueless as to what they are doing in terms of the actual effect, the actual effect, it has on real people and the real situation.

Teddy Nappen 28:59

So, I love how they end this article too. They get this expert, because they always have to. They always lean on the logical fallacy of, oh, I’m an expert, so trust me on this. Catherine Barber out of the Harvard Page – 8 – of 9

Injury Control Research Center, gee, that doesn’t sound biased. She makes this long winded argument, making it so this sounds like if you’re a gun owner, oh, you’re mentally ill, even though gun owners are more than twice at the risk of non gun owners from taking their own lives. And they equated where we should treat Red Flag like suicide prevention. Just this long winded expression, trying to make it seem like, oh, that’s right, if you own a gun, you probably have mental illness. That is the level of disgusting nature that these people are. And they try to argue that.

Evan Nappen 29:56

Right. So they, so that. So, this person’s saying, if you own a gun, you’re mentally ill, and we have these administration folks and this U.S. attorney saying, essentially, if you have a gun, you’re a threat immediately to law enforcement. I mean, they’re just making these assumptions on both sides that are just strictly out of bounds when we’re talking about a Constitutional right, a Constitutional right. I mean, just make believe it’s the First Amendment instead of the Second Amendment. Anyone that freely speaks their mind is mentally ill. Anybody who freely talks to police is justified in being shot, and that doesn’t. Neither those statements make any sense, right?

Evan Nappen 30:44

Well, we’re talking the Second Amendment. That’s a Constitutional right. It’s not a second class right, either. Just like the First Amendment is a right, and this right is supposed to be guaranteed by the Government. Guaranteed by the Government. Not given by the Government. It needs to get respected and put in the proper perspective of being treated as a right. It’s not a mental illness. It’s not a threat to law enforcement, intrinsically a threat. This all is based on the individual’s behavior. That’s the point, and that’s what the focus has to be on. But yet it’s so easy to just look at it as a symbol, the symbol. Americans always had this thing about going after the symbols. I mean, why were switchblades banned in the ’50s? Well, they were the symbol of juvenile delinquency, right? I mean, what? Why were machine guns banned, oh, the symbol. It was symbolism. It’s just this constant moral crusade by picking an item, an item to go after. We need to look at actions of people. What is not malum prohibitums, where a legislative body just decides this should be banned or that should be banned. But instead, we focus on the malum and say things that are wrong within themselves, and those things are the actions and wrongdoings by people. That’s where laws have to focus.

Teddy Nappen 32:41

I think it definitely needs to be a wake up call. Because, look, I understand, and hopefully we do get common ground. And you know what, if Pretti’s law comes into play and we get enough the Democrats to jump on because they want to, you know, look like they’re 2A affiliates or whatever, which, by the way, anytime you hear the news, the CNN, MSNBC, use the words 2A or democracy. You look at the little end, it’ll say, TM, trademark. It’s their version of the Second Amendment, their version of democracy. That is what they always argue. It’s rules for thee, not from rules for thee, not for me. That is how the Left operate. So, just remember that every time they’re trying to coax the Left, the right against the administration.

Evan Nappen 33:30

Well, Pretti’s law will have an interesting effect, because it’ll put the Left on the spot, on the vote. Do you support being able to carry a firearm in public the way he did, where you’re claiming to? Well now Page – 9 – of 9

you’re going to have to put your money where your mouth is. So, to speak, you have to vote. You better vote, I think. And within the same question, wait gets made to the other side. Do you support the Second Amendment or not? So, this is why, politically, it’s an opportunity.

Teddy Nappen 34:05

I think we joked that Trump should come out against carry, which would force the Left. Like, I think we joked about that exact thing there. You’re right. He should come out against machine guns.

Evan Nappen 34:19

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, because actually, the next thing you know, you’ve got Newsom putting out and Democrat Congresspersons putting out, pro-gun statements, pro-Second Amendment statements. I mean, it’s well, that’s why it’s opportunity time, and hopefully someone will take advantage of it.

Evan Nappen 34:48

Well, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 35:01

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

Email (required) *

First Name *

Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)

Gun Lawyer — Episode 273 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

New Jersey gun laws, accidental discharge, criminalization, reckless discharge, felony consequences,

gun ownership rights, self-defense, insurance coverage, Second Amendment, gun safety, gun dealers,

international disarmament, gun control, gun owner education, legal challenges.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:17

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:19

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:20

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, folks, the New Jersey legislature has done it again. They have

passed some atrocious gun laws, and I need to make all of you aware of one, particularly, that is very

much a threat. It is something that’s going to affect many, many gun owners, and it is not being talked

about in the general media, of course, because of how they write these laws in such a sneaky,

underhanded way. But this law is going to impact all of us, frankly. And the potential is there, under this

law, to not only take away gun owners’ rights to have guns, but to turn us all into felons at any time,

simply based on an accident. That’s right, an accident.

Evan Nappen 01:31

Because what New Jersey legislature’s both houses have passed, and I expect, very shortly, the

governor will sign, is Assembly Bill, 4976. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_R2.PDF) And

what this bill does is it criminalizes Accidental Discharges (ADs). Now, an accidental discharge is when

your gun goes off, accidentally, either by what some folks call an uncommanded discharge or an

accidental discharge. But it is something that can happen, and although we have to always be very

careful, circumstances can be such that a mistake can be made. I mean, we’re all human, and mistakes

can happen. And unfortunately, you know, I see it in the practice, and I get accidental discharge cases

all the time where individuals make a mistake and a gun goes off unintended. It happens. Now

sometimes it happens because of the actual mechanical flaws to a firearm and that can be because of

a gun’s design. It can even be due to circumstances where a firearm can go off from the slightest touch.

Evan Nappen 03:08

Now you may not be aware of this, but years and years ago, I know of a case where an individual had a

shotgun that this fellow had kept loaded. One of those single shot, top-breaker type shotguns. You

know, like the old kind of like the toppers, the H and R Toppers, and what have you, similar to that. It

Page – 1 – of 11may even have been one. I don’t know. But it’s one of those old single shot shotguns. And for probably

50 years, that gun had remained loaded with a shell in it. At one point, there were folks that were

causing all kinds of problems in this guy’s yard, and he wanted to scare them off. He didn’t want to

shoot them, and he put the gun out of, pointed the gun out the window, and boom. It went off, and he

never pulled the trigger. He absolutely never pulled the trigger. There was no hit to the primer of the

shell when it went off. And what has happened was, in this particular design of the gun, the firing pin

had been pushing against the primer because the hammer was down and it didn’t have a firing pin

block. And for like 50 years, this gun sat there, sensitizing the primer so that the slightest touch, you

know, just the right jolt, without having to actually pull the trigger, made it go off. So, a gun can actually

even do that under those extraordinary circumstances.

Evan Nappen 04:57

But normally, an accidental discharge or uncommanded discharge that we encounter is because

somebody believed, honestly believed, their gun was unloaded. And it ends up, of course, that it wasn’t.

Now this can happen because somebody thought they checked it and maybe even did check. But then,

with a magazine in and the slide going forward, a round loads, but they didn’t realize that it loaded,

because they checked that it was unloaded. And sure enough, there’s a round there. I mean, I’ve seen

every combination of error that could happen and a discharge can occur. And, of course, we know the

rules, always point in a safe direction, etc. Make sure your gun is unloaded. Double, triple check to

make sure that the chamber is empty. That there’s no magazine, and there’s no live ammo. I mean, all

those things that we do. But accidents can happen, just like in a motor vehicle. We drive as safe as we

possibly can, but people still have accidents. And what New Jersey has done in this bill is essentially

criminalize an accident so that individuals will be looking at what is, in all likelihood, felony level

charges. And they structured this bill in just a sneaky, evil, devious way. It’s going to have great impact,

and it’s going to create, I think, unintended consequences.

Evan Nappen 06:40

Now, as gun owners, we have to understand how we have to behave if any of us ever are so

unfortunate as to have an uncommanded or accidental discharge. So, the law talks about “recklessly”

having a discharge. “Reckless” in criminal law means, you know, with a conscious disregard of a known

risk, okay? Criminal laws can have recklessly or reckless as a standard, as opposed to something

being intentional, right? So, if you intentionally meant to pull the trigger, that’s intentional. Reckless

could still be you didn’t intend to do it. But if there was that conscious disregard of that known risk and it

ended up discharged, then you could argue that it’s reckless. So, reckless is kind of a standard where

it’s not that traditional mens rea, your mental and your mental state of having that intention to have the

gun fire. Reckless has been in our criminal law for a long time, and reckless conduct is something that’s

out there, like reckless driving. I’m sure that you have heard of that.

Evan Nappen 08:05

But what they’re doing here is even more devious by using the word “reckless”. So, what now is being

prohibited? And I’m going to read this to you so you can see how they’ve done this. It says, a person

commits a disorderly person’s offense. Now that sounds like, okay. A disorderly persons offense in New

Jersey is equivalent to a misdemeanor. It’s not a felony. So, you’re saying, well, first of all, this is not

creating a felony. It’s creating a disorderly persons offense, right? It sounds like it’s, you know,

Page – 2 – of 11apparently, trying to be reasonable. But trust me, folks, it isn’t. I’m going to show you why. “A person

commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm.” Okay, so at this point they’re

saying, well, it’s just a low level offense, and it’s for recklessly discharge. You know, we’ve

conscientiously disregarded a known risk. Okay, so it started out sounding, you know, not great, but

okay. It’s not. It shouldn’t affect a lot of folks, and luckily, if it does, it’s still a misdemeanor. And, of

course, it requires that recklessness. So, that sounds all good.

Evan Nappen 09:22

Let me start again and read you, but wait until you hear the rest of it. A person commits a disorderly

persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm “using live ammunition rounds”. Well, okay, that’s

good to know. A blank gun isn’t a reckless discharge, but you know you’re firing a blank. No live ammo.

Okay. So, if I’m firing dead ammo or ammo that’s not live, then that’s not a reckless discharge. Well,

good. How do I get a discharge with ammo that’s not live? I don’t know how that’s even going to

happen. But okay, they throw that in, probably more as subterfuge and, you know, smoke and mirrors.

But again, here we go. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a

firearm using live ammunition rounds unlawfully . . .” Okay, unlawfully. So, you’re unlawful. “. . . or

without a lawful purpose.” Whoops, wait a minute. “Without a lawful purpose.” You commit a disorderly

persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm without lawful purpose.

Evan Nappen 10:35

Except that a second conviction for such an offense constitutes a crime of the fourth degree. Well, a

crime is a felony, and that’s a fourth degree. It’s a year and a half in jail. And a third or subsequent

conviction is a third degree and that’s five years in State Prison. Okay. So, you may even read this part

and say, well, it’s still arguably, weirdly reckless, maybe. But it’s for discharging a firearm without lawful

purpose, but at least it’s a disorderly persons offense. And I, boy, if we do it once, I sure wouldn’t think

I’d do it again. So, why is this such a problem, you know.

Evan Nappen 11:09

But oh, well, wait, wait, wait. We’re not done yet. Because then it says, if a person commits a violation

under this section, you’re charged with a crime one degree higher than what ordinarily would be

charged for such an offense when the violation occurs within 100 yards, 100 yards, folks. Not 100 feet.

A football field’s worth of distance of an occupied structure. Oh, what’s an occupied structure? Any

building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, or airplane, or a place adopted for overnight accommodations

of persons or for carrying on business therein. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute! An

occupied structure includes a car or vehicle, and it doesn’t even mean it has to be occupied. It means

even a vehicle or a building or a room, and it has to be within 100 yards, a football field, of a car. If

there’s a car driving by within 100 yards where the accidental discharge takes place. If you’re in your

own home? I mean, this is basically every accidental discharge. You will probably be within 100 yards

of a car or a building or a room, or hotel or whatever, or an airplane. Man, even if the airplane is flying

over the sky, I don’t know. I mean, this is nuts.

Evan Nappen 12:55

So, if the violation occurs within 100 yards of a “structure”, guess what? It’s no longer that disorderly

persons offense. It’s bumped instantly to the fourth degree, felony level offense. Up to a year and a half

Page – 3 – of 11in State Prison, and now you’re going to be a convicted felon. That’s if your gun discharged for not

having, without a lawful purpose. Oh, you mean like an accident? Yeah! Like an accident. An accident

because you didn’t have a lawful purpose. Did you lawfully have a purposeful accident? No, that’s

silliness in a nutshell. So, what it means now is essentially any accidental discharge is a felony in New

Jersey, and you can face State Prison time of at least a year and a half, unless it’s going to be

enhanced even more based on these other factors. And as a felon, you lose your gun rights for the

entire United States.

Evan Nappen 14:12

And even if it’s kept at the misdemeanor, a so-called disorderly persons level, they’re still going to go

after your gun license and your gun rights. They’ll claim, under Chapter 58-3 of the licensing law, that

you’re somehow a danger to public health, safety, welfare. You think if you’re going to have a criminal

charge, a criminal offense charged here of accidental discharge, where they’re classifying it as reckless

because it went for a “an unlawful purpose”. Like I said, I don’t know how you have a lawful purpose

accident. And it was somehow within 100 yards of any car or room, which made it originally a felony

even, right? Felony level in New Jersey. You’re getting your license and your guns confiscated and

taken and face prosecution over this insane law.

Evan Nappen 15:17

Now, this is the consequences of this bill, right? But that’s just the consequences in the law itself, like

the penalty you may face and licensing problems. But what it also means is that upon any accidental

discharge, folks, any, you immediately, now, immediately, have a Fifth Amendment right against self-

incrimination, and you’re going to have to stand by that. Because I know in many of the cases we’ve

seen, someone had an accidental discharge, and it may have gone through their wall. It may have gone

to a neighbor’s house. It may have not whatever. But if you react, if you call the police, if you try to find

out what happened, any type, you’re getting criminally charged. You have a right to say nothing. You

have an absolute right, a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, because you will end up incriminating

yourself. This is going to mean that any New Jersey gun owner who has an AD or an uncommanded

accidental discharge needs to immediately take the Fifth and seek counsel, the Sixth Amendment. Just

call your attorney and don’t say anything to anyone. Do not make any statements to law enforcement or

anybody. And, you know, this is a shame. Because what if that round actually caused injury to

somebody?

Teddy Nappen 16:59

Actually take it a step further.

Evan Nappen 17:01

Think about it. You’re gonna incriminate yourself. You gotta absolutely. Go ahead, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 17:07

Take it a step further. Imagine instead of “gun”, this was “car”. I asked. I was in. I got into a car

accident. So, therefore, all car accidents are felonies, where there is nowhere. Were you back? Were

you 100 feet from your driveway? Was there a car driving by? Did you back into that car? Felony! You

are now a felon because of that. And don’t tell me it’s the firearm versus the car! Because the car is a

Page – 4 – of 11two ton steel death machine that kills more people than firearms do. So, it’s that level of argument, the

utter draconian insanity that they have created here. Where from an accident, an actual accident, God

forbid.

Evan Nappen 17:54

An accident. That is right.

Teddy Nappen 17:56

You are guilty until proven innocent.

Evan Nappen 17:59

And wait. Let me say this. This has been put out there as a possible problem for self-defenders. And

that’s actually not completely accurate, because there’s an exemption here that says it’s an affirmative

defense, if you fired your gun in self-defense. Okay. Affirmative defense means the burden is on you to

prove that you acted in self-defense. Then they’ll say, okay, that wasn’t a reckless discharge. But even

the fact that the legislature has to put in there that if you act in self-defense, it’s an affirmative defense.

Well, wait a minute. Why is it an affirmative defense? Because it wouldn’t have been reckless if it was

intentional. Why do we even need that? So, in other words, the legislature itself knows that they’ve

manipulated this law to simply be discharge for unlawful purpose, period. If you didn’t have a lawful

purpose when your gun went off, it’s felony level if it’s within 100 yards of a car, or a room, or a building.

Insanity.

Evan Nappen 19:05

And as you say, Teddy, it would be like making every car accident, any fender bender that you have,

you become charged with a felony. New Jersey has done that to gun owners now. Any accident, any

accidental discharge, you’re going to face these criminal charges. This is going to, you’re going to end

up in the system. If you have an AD, you’re getting charged. And now we’re going to have to fight this

out on an offense that is essentially strict liability. That is the way they’ve set it up. Couching it and

hiding it under so-called reckless, recklessly. But when they actually write it, they put the recklessly with

the little bonus of having “without a lawful purpose”. This is nuts. Nuts. Nuts.

Evan Nappen 19:58

I’m telling you right now the cases we get, it’s going to be crazy, crazy and a problem. So, folks, be

extra careful. This is bad news. It has passed both houses, and the Governor, I’m sure, will sign it very

shortly, if he hasn’t signed it already. And now gun owners are at extreme risk under this law.

Teddy Nappen 20:24

I just thought of another one, too. What if you’re a first time shooter and you go to a range course,

you’re in a range, a gun range learning, and the gun accidentally goes off because you’re brand new to

firearms? You’re now a convicted felon. No discretion.

Evan Nappen 20:44

Oh, well. It was near a room. That’s right, no discretion, and anybody that has that AD. So, again, it’s

designed to disenfranchise gun owners of Second Amendment rights. And by the way, you may not be

Page – 5 – of 11able to then get even insurance coverage. Because if it’s criminalized over what you did, it’s not

anymore. Now, you’re talking about behavior where they can claim it’s a criminal act. It’s a criminal act,

okay? And again, you may depending on your policy, depending on what actually the injuries and

damage, you may not even have coverage. The insurance companies will use it to deny you coverage.

I’m sure of that. That’s their job, as it normally is, anyway. To try to figure out how to deny coverage.

Well, they’ve just given them that ability on the civil side to further make it harder for you. It’s

jeopardizing gun rights, and it’s looking at creating incarceration at felony level for gun owners. It’s

outrageous, and it really is something that I’m sure we’re going to see major, major impact. And then

that’s not the only fun. Go ahead, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 22:04

I was just curious on the constitutionality of it? Because they’ve made, there must be some avenue.

Because it’s very, like they’re giving no discretion? And just saying.

Evan Nappen 22:16

Nope.

Teddy Nappen 22:16

It’s automatic. There’s no constitutional challenge.

Evan Nappen 22:20

Well, I guess there could always be a constitutional challenge. But what’s going to happen is it’s going

to have to be the fight. The real fight is going to be over, maybe an argument of, was there a conscious,

conscientious disregard, or conscious disregard of a known risk. But the other side will argue that as

soon as you have a gun with ammo, you have a known risk. I mean, a firearm, and that’s their entire

anti-Second Amendment strategy.

Teddy Nappen 22:43

When you deal with guns, you do so at your peril.

Evan Nappen 22:53

Right! And that’s New Jersey case law, right there. So, they’re saying, hey, you do it at your peril. You

took a known risk because you possessed a gun, even. You can well see a New Jersey jury buying that

argument. This is nuts, and gun owners, beware, beware, beware, beware. And like I said, this isn’t the

only shenanigan that occurred in Trenton. They also signed S1425.

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S1500/1425_R1.PDF) Now, this is actually law. This law, real quick,

specifically applies just to dealers. Just to New Jersey dealers. How nice. They have their own very

special law now. This law says, “A licensed dealer who sells or transfers a firearm to a person when the

dealer knows or reasonably should know that person intends to sell, transfer, assign, or otherwise

dispose of that firearm to a person who is disqualified from possessing a firearm under State or federal

law is guilty of a crime of the second degree.” That means up to 10 years in State Prison. They have a

minimum mandatory period of three and a half years, and they made it a second degree. This is insane.

Page – 6 – of 11Evan Nappen 24:03

If you’re a dealer in New Jersey, they can claim that you reasonably should have known that a gun you

transferred to somebody was going to be transferred to somebody who was disqualified from

possessing. Let me give you an example. You sell a Red Rider BB gun. That’s a firearm under New

Jersey law. And if you reasonably should have known that that person was going to let their kid have

that BB gun, you’re looking at a second degree charge here, Dealers. Yeah for that BB gun. Because

as long as the state can show you reasonably should know that, that the person intended to transfer it

to someone who was disqualified, who would be arguably that minor, unless it’s under a strict

exemption. I mean, this is the kind of pathways being cut here. How do you know or reasonably should

know? What is that reasonably should have known nonsense?

Evan Nappen 25:03

I mean, that’s again, 12 people on a jury are the ones who’s going to decide whether reasonably you

should know. All the law says, “. . . ‘reasonably should know’ means that a person reasonably should

know a fact when, under the circumstances, a person of reasonable prudence and competence would

ascertain or know that fact.” Oh, that’s a that’s so crystal clear. Huh? Real, crystal clear. Now what it

means is 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty are going to decide whether the dealer

should have known on that gun sale. And if they decide otherwise, the dealer is looking at a minimum

mandatory sentence on a second degree crime, which carries up to 10 years in State Prison. Okay?

That’s what they’re doing. Focused on New Jersey dealers. Do you think they want to put every dealer

in New Jersey out of business? I do. And that’s the other bonus law that’s actually signed into law. It’s

ripe for abuse, folks. Beware. It is just atrocious what’s going on in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 26:07

Let me tell you about our fight. You know, we are in this fight. We constantly, we’ve tried to fight these

things. New Jersey is an extremely tough environment. We’re going to see court challenges, even more

court challenges, and it’s our state Association that’s going to be heading the fight. I’m sure we’re going

to see a constitutional challenge to this so-called Accidental Discharge bill and the same over what

they’re looking to do to dealers. And it’s ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at

the forefront, fighting for our rights. They’re the umbrella organization of gun clubs in New Jersey, and

you can join as an individual member. You really need to. You’ll be sent email alerts, and you’ll be told

what’s going on. And you know, we’re able to get changes made with pressure, but most importantly,

our salvation seems to be in the judicial fight in the courts. The Association is there as we speak. This

is an extremely tough environment in New Jersey, the toughest in America, where the oppression of

Second Amendment rights is second to none. New Jersey wins the prize for Second Amendment

oppression, and it’s the Association there at the forefront. You need to be a member. Go to anjrpc.org

and join today. Be part of the solution. It’s really important that you do that.

Evan Nappen 27:43

I’d also like to talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, easily

accessible, off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and we both qualified. It’s where we got

our CCARE and where we get our training. We love WeShoot. That’s the place to shoot. It’s a place

you can shoot. They have a wonderful facility, a great pro shop, and great instructors. You’ve got to

check out their website, magnificent photography there. And they run all kinds of great deals and

Page – 7 – of 11specials, and they have all the top state of the art equipment. Check out weshootusa.com.

weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. It is a great resource for us to have a range right there in

Central New Jersey that is as professional and modern as WeShoot. Go to weshootusa.com and check

them out. You will be thrilled, just like Teddy and I. Well, that’s where we shoot. It’s what we love. You’ll

love it too.

Evan Nappen 29:00

Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. I’m working

on the update from what I just told you today. So, the free update will be coming out, including the 2026

Comprehensive Update. We’re going to look at and add in all the new laws that’ll be coming out shortly.

So, if you have the book, make sure you scan the QR cover. The QR code on the cover. Join my free

private subscriber base, and you’ll get notice of the updates that are forthcoming. You can buy the book

at EvanNappen.com. That’s right, www.EvanNappen.com. Go to EvanNappen.com and get the big

orange book today. You’ll be glad you did. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all Question and Answer,

designed to make it as user friendly as possible. I try to make it so you can navigate these treacherous

waters of Second Amendment oppression in New Jersey. So, go to EvanNappen.com and get your

book. Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks?

Teddy Nappen 30:15

Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. While you’re talking about the utter insanity that is

New Jersey, there’s one positive bit of news. It’s kind of been, you know, from the entire news cycle of

everything they try to cover. There’s one thing that kind of slipped under the cracks that some people

did pick up on. And it caught my eye. I was like, wait a second, I remember this. So, President Trump

has withdrawn from the UN Register of Conventional Arms. (https://gunrights.org/united-states-

withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of-conventional-arms/) That treaty. Now, I remember growing up

as a kid, Dad, you told me, always keep an eye out if there are blue helmets walking down the street.

Evan Nappen 31:01

Yeah, that’s right, that blue helmet day came, if that ever was to come. Yep.

Teddy Nappen 31:08

And oh, I remember you telling me about that treaty. And you know that stupid, you know, the UN has

always been an anti-gun organization, with that stupid, bent revolver they have.

Evan Nappen 31:20

Yeah, the revolver with a barrel and a pretzel knot. (https://dam.media.un.org/archive/Gift-of-

Luxembourg-to-the-United-Nations-2AM9LOQORWK.html) I mean, look at folks. It’s a revolver, by the

way. It’s not an AK, you know. It’s not an AR. It’s not in an “assault firearm”. No, no. It’s a freaking

revolver with a barrel in a pretzel knot there. Gee, who are the primary possessors of revolvers? I

wonder. Is that paramilitary organizations? No. Terrorist, radicalized wackos? No. A revolver. Let me

see. Oh, you mean, like average citizens? Wow, hmm. Interesting.

Page – 8 – of 11Teddy Nappen 32:02

But what I remember that being back, you know, where this was a big fear. Where it was the giant arms

treaty, where they were trying, I think it wasn’t ratified by Obama, but that was that insane policy to try,

even. The UN even actually has an Office of Disarmament. (https://disarmament.unoda.org/en/our-

work/conventional-arms/legal-instruments/arms-trade-treaty) That’s actually their whole like deal. What

they try to push for. Now, they cloak it in like militarily. If you actually go to the website, this was from

the gunrights.org. (https://gunrights.org/united-states-withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of-

conventional-arms/) The National Association of Gun Rights put out the article, and they provide the

link where you can go on to the UN website. You can see their register of their whole charter on the

UN, and it goes into they brag about it. We’ve recorded and captured 90% of the global arms trade. By

the way, this was supposed to be about, you know, tanks, armored carriers. You know, stuff used in

actual, like, large scale warfare. But then I love how they do this. In 2016 they adopted the international

small arms and light weapons in parallel with the other seven categories, so we can keep track of all

small arms. Hmm, 2016. What were they doing to try, what was the big anti-gun push to try to disarm

us around that time? Thinking that they’re going to try to go around collecting our arms in the United

States. Like it’s so disgusting. I love how they just cloak it. You actually can go on to their reports. I got

bored. So, I clicked the arms report of 2023 and I was like, okay, armored carriers, all that . Small arms.

I wanted to look and see who were like the top buyers. So, revolvers and self-loading pistols – Iraq.

Apparently.

Evan Nappen 33:57

Really?

Teddy Nappen 33:58

Yeah, like 2,150 pistols from us to Iraq.

Evan Nappen 34:03

Oh, from the U.S.?

Teddy Nappen 34:05

Yeah, from the U.S. It keeps track of each country.

Evan Nappen 34:07

Well, we’re making them.

Teddy Nappen 34:09

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 34:09

Of course. We’re a major industrial manufacturer. What we should be doing is making guns.

Teddy Nappen 34:14

Yeah. And then rifles and carbines. They separate that from “assault firearms”. Rifles and carbines.

20,000 to Israel. So, there you go for that end.

Page – 9 – of 11Evan Nappen 34:27

Yeah, Israel makes a lot of their own weapons, too, and they make really good ones.

Teddy Nappen 34:32

Yeah, I know they have the Hebrew hammer.

Evan Nappen 34:35

Oh, yeah!

Teddy Nappen 34:35

The Tabor X95. (https://iwi.us/firearms/tavor-x95/) But with the sub-machine guns, Saudi Arabia, 550.

Evan Nappen 34:41

This doesn’t even matter. This is so absurd, and it’s just trying to globalize Second Amendment

oppression. You know, our country’s blessed with Second Amendment. And of course, New Jersey

does everything it can to undermine it, but the majority of America doesn’t do that. But internationally,

we, you know, they hate us. They hate our Constitution, and they want to see us disarmed. We are

standing as a threat to their globalist intentions, right?

Teddy Nappen 35:21

I mean, that was the famous line that Donald Trump said to the world. The world does not belong to

globalists. And that’s a fact. And here, in their charter, they even say, such measures, as they’re

describing the whole disarmament office, such measures can also encourage restraint in the transfer

and production of armament and decelerate military build up. In words of, okay, we need to lower the

amount of guns in the world and try to disarm the people. That’s the cover they run, but they dress it up.

I will give the Left credit. Their ability to wordsmith their way into something else is crazy.

Evan Nappen 36:06

Well, listen, man. It’s not every political group that can convince people, you know, that a man can be a

woman. So, why can’t they convince the world about this with guns? Right?

Teddy Nappen 36:17

Well, it’s the political group that has the. When they did the whole study on mental health of different

groups, the vast majority of people that vote Democrat have mental illness. So, let that sink in. That

was an actual study, and that was put out by, like, CNN! So.

Evan Nappen 36:18

Really?

Teddy Nappen 36:19

Yeah, they had to be like. No, I love it. If you are ever bored? Anyone who’s very bored, go on to CNN

and catch Harry Enton, the statistics guy. He’s the golden retriever of CNN. He just talks about

numbers, and he gets so excited. He’s like, oh my God, have you seen these numbers? I can’t believe

Page – 10 – of 11it. He’s always, like, shocked every time. He sees like, you know, everyone keeps saying Trump’s

numbers are going bad, but you go over to here. Six months ago, 84, and now, it’s 85. Oh, wow,

amazing. Like, it’s just, it’s that energy. It’s crazy.

Evan Nappen 37:13

Well, how old is he? Maybe he’s just trying to get excitement to statistics?

Teddy Nappen 37:18

I know, but it’s just like, what are the numbers? Pretty good. He’s like, gad Zooks. He’s like, clapping. I

know. It’s just like, what the heck is it? Like if anyone is bored? Just look up Harry Enten on CNN. He’s,

it’s so fucking weird.

Evan Nappen 37:37

Okay, I love it. All right, Teddy. Well, that is interesting to know, but I’m not surprised, not surprised at

all. This is the moment, the moment when we discuss the GOFU, that is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It is

one of the most important aspects of what we do, because every day we deal with Gun Owner Fuck

Ups. And when we can let the listeners know, you get to learn expensive lessons for free. And this

week’s GOFU is real simple. It’s Accidental Discharge. Let me just make it real clear. Now, more than

ever, more than ever, you’ve got to be extremely overly conscientious. You better triple check

chambers. You’ve got to make sure. You cannot afford in any way to have any kind of Accidental

Discharge in New Jersey, because you risk it all. You risk it all. You risk becoming a felon. You risk

going to prison. You risk losing your gun rights for the entire United States. You risk not being covered,

arguably, by insurance. It is an insane risk that New Jersey is imposing, and I’ve seen 80 cases

throughout my entire practice. Unfortunately, they happen, and, you know, in hindsight, they’re all

avoidable. But folks don’t be a GOFU. Please, please, please. Follow all the rules of safety, and make

sure you treat every gun as loaded. Every gun, you treat as loaded. Do not for a second, not do that.

It’s just that critical. They’re criminalizing those who make a simple mistake, and there is no tolerance.

Evan Nappen 40:00

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from

criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 40:13

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 11 – of 11

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

Email (required) *

First Name *

Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Second Amendment rights, New Jersey gun laws, national firearm licensing, anti-gun oppression, domestic violence restraining order, federal firearms licensing act, gun control measures, gun rights suppression, gun violence prevention, gun rights advocacy, gun rights litigation, gun rights education, gun rights resources, gun rights history, gun rights updates.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:20

Evan Nappen 01:26

Evan Nappen 02:13

Teddy Nappen 03:43

Evan Nappen 03:46

Evan Nappen 04:59

Evan Nappen 06:19

Evan Nappen 07:35

Evan Nappen 08:22

Evan Nappen 10:01

Teddy Nappen 10:49

Evan Nappen 10:52 Right! Oh, God.

Teddy Nappen 10:53

Evan Nappen 11:46

Evan Nappen 13:08

Teddy Nappen 13:45

Evan Nappen 13:50

Evan Nappen 14:36

Evan Nappen 15:40

Evan Nappen 15:40

Evan Nappen 20:50

Evan Nappen 21:39

Evan Nappen 22:35

Teddy Nappen 25:03

Evan Nappen 25:34

Teddy Nappen 25:37

Evan Nappen 25:46

Teddy Nappen 25:49

Evan Nappen 26:03

Teddy Nappen 26:06

Teddy Nappen 26:19

Evan Nappen 26:28 That makes sense.

Teddy Nappen 26:30

Evan Nappen 27:05

Teddy Nappen 27:17

Evan Nappen 27:45 Good way to translate it.

Teddy Nappen 27:46

Evan Nappen 28:33

Teddy Nappen 28:50

Teddy Nappen 29:11

Evan Nappen 29:13

Teddy Nappen 29:20

Evan Nappen 29:21

Teddy Nappen 29:24

Evan Nappen 29:34

Teddy Nappen 29:36

Evan Nappen 29:54

Teddy Nappen 29:56

Evan Nappen 30:01

Teddy Nappen 30:06

Evan Nappen 30:06 Do not make jokes?

Teddy Nappen 30:12

Evan Nappen 30:14

Teddy Nappen 30:55 No, no, no. He says.

Evan Nappen 30:56 What did he say in Zulu?

Teddy Nappen 30:57

Evan Nappen 31:02 No comedian.

Teddy Nappen 31:05

Evan Nappen 31:08

Teddy Nappen 31:10

Evan Nappen 31:42

Teddy Nappen 31:48

Teddy Nappen 31:55

Evan Nappen 32:03

Teddy Nappen 32:05

Evan Nappen 32:24

Teddy Nappen 32:28

Evan Nappen 32:43

Teddy Nappen 32:46

Evan Nappen 32:49

Teddy Nappen 32:53

Evan Nappen 33:07

Evan Nappen 33:35

Teddy Nappen 34:10

Evan Nappen 34:26

Teddy Nappen 35:43

Evan Nappen 36:21

Evan Nappen 37:07

Speaker 2 37:30

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

Email (required) *

First Name *

Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)

Gun Lawyer — Episode 271 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Second Amendment, New Jersey, gun oppression, Bruen decision, carry permits, violent crime, John Petrolino, high capacity magazines, gun training, NRA classes, self-defense, gun laws, gun rights, gun ownership, legal battles, gun journalist.

SPEAKERS

Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:16 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:18

Teddy Nappen 01:44

Evan Nappen 02:00

Page – 1 – of 10

try to protect it, they do everything they can to try to diminish it. That’s the evil of what the New Jersey government is all about, and that’s really what it is.

Evan Nappen 03:18

Evan Nappen 05:24

Evan Nappen 06:25

Evan Nappen 07:29

Page – 2 – of 10

every time there is anything that is pro-gun rights, pro-enforcing our Constitutional rights, anything that expands our ability to exercise our rights, the anti-rights crowd, the oppressors, will shout what I call BITS, bits. Which is Blood In The Streets. There’ll be blood in the streets. You know, this is going to be the Wild West. This is going to be, you know, just the sky is falling, right? Every time, every time. And so, of course, the prediction was, if we have carry, we’re going to have blood in the streets. And it’s going to be terrible and all this mayhem. And guess what? The opposite, of course, the opposite. The opposite happened.

Evan Nappen 08:31

Evan Nappen 10:54

Evan Nappen 11:39

Page – 3 – of 10

about real journalism that puts out a product that is otherwise not being seen, and in doing so, aids our Second Amendment rights and helps fight the oppression with the disinfectant of truth. John, congratulations on your awards. That is just really great, because when you win, we win, and it gets the message out. So, that’s a great job, and we’re proud of you.

Evan Nappen 13:56

Evan Nappen 15:14

Evan Nappen 16:41

Evan Nappen 17:40

Page – 4 – of 10

Second Amendment oppression, especially on those key issues that affect so many of us. So, join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at anjrpc.org.

Evan Nappen 18:33

Teddy Nappen 20:11

Evan Nappen 21:23

Teddy Nappen 22:07

Page – 5 – of 10

Evan Nappen 22:20 Right.

Teddy Nappen 22:21

Evan Nappen 22:46

Teddy Nappen 22:52

Evan Nappen 23:26

Teddy Nappen 25:00

Evan Nappen 25:29 Absolutely. David Kopel.

Page – 6 – of 10

Teddy Nappen 25:30

Evan Nappen 25:33

Teddy Nappen 25:44 No, no, let’s start with.

Evan Nappen 25:46 Oh, really.

Teddy Nappen 25:47

Evan Nappen 25:51

Teddy Nappen 25:55

Evan Nappen 26:05 I love the Puckle gun.

Teddy Nappen 26:06

Evan Nappen 26:20

Teddy Nappen 26:27

Evan Nappen 27:00 I like that.

Page – 7 – of 10

Teddy Nappen 27:01

Evan Nappen 27:21

Teddy Nappen 27:25

Evan Nappen 27:32

Teddy Nappen 27:35

Evan Nappen 28:06

Teddy Nappen 28:27

Teddy Nappen 29:08

Evan Nappen 29:28

Page – 8 – of 10

Teddy Nappen 29:30

Evan Nappen 29:59

Evan Nappen 30:13

Evan Nappen 30:24

Teddy Nappen 30:27

Evan Nappen 30:39

Evan Nappen 30:46

Evan Nappen 31:56

Page – 9 – of 10

Evan Nappen 33:19

Evan Nappen 33:42

Speaker 2 34:25

Page – 10 – of 10

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

Email (required) *

First Name *

Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Security evaluation, electronic security, physical security, camera surveillance, alarm systems, firearm

safety, mental state, personal protection, dog security, property defense, legal implications, pet rights,

self-defense, gun laws, New Jersey gun law.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2

Evan Nappen 00:14

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:16

and I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:18

and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, 2026 is just about upon us, and what’s really great to do at the

beginning of the year is to take a look at your own security for yourself and your family as we start this

new year. And as you know, it’s dangerous out there and you know, we’re gun owners, and we believe

in defense and self-defense. There are things we need to do that include guns, but also don’t include

guns when it comes to evaluating your own personal security, which is something that we all should be

very concerned about. So, when you want to think about your security, particularly in your home and

through your life, there are two ways to divide security. You have what is electronic security and then

what we might call physical security.

Evan Nappen 01:25

So, electronic security would include lighting, alarm systems, and cameras. That kind of security falls

into, you know, surveillance and warnings and illumination and really is reliant upon electronic security.

In terms of physical security, we have gun safes and other safes, dogs. Dogs are a form of physical

security. Locks, good locks, good bars on windows where it may be needed. And of course, our

firearms are the last resort of our physical security. And the idea is to have an excellent combination of

both physical and electronic security. You want to cover all the bases to give you a full security

umbrella. And, of course, combined into all this is your mental state, and for that, I would highly

recommend Jeff Cooper’s “The Principles of Personal Protection”. You’ll gain insight into your daily life

and what you need to do to have awareness and those principles.

Evan Nappen 02:58

But these areas of electronic and physical security are very critical, especially today. Also, you know,

electronic security, a lot of it, combines computers and our cell phones, too, as well. And so, with what’s

available today, it’s kind of amazing, because it is very reasonable to have camera surveillance. I

Page – 1 – of 10mean, you know, a number of decades ago, if you wanted to have cameras on your property, protecting

your home, etc, it was tens of thousands of dollars. It was basically not within reach of average people

to have that kind of surveillance. But now, with the advent of the internet and with these smaller,

amazingly effective cameras, you know, particularly Ring and other companies, you can absolutely

have great, actually, camera surveillance better than decades ago with the equipment that existed then,

and for just a fraction, a fraction of the price. I mean, every person should have at least a Ring doorbell

or some equivalent to that, so that you know who’s coming to your door. It films motion and those

individuals that may approach, and not just individuals, but also animals, cars, and other things. This is

a really great advance in modern-day technology, not just in what it does, but in the amazing,

reasonable cost that you can get it done and accomplished for.

Evan Nappen 04:58

Of course, there are other cameras that can work into your floodlights. Floodlights that also record and

are motion driven and part of the system, the alarm system itself, which is great. Very easy to self

install and put in a Ring alarm system. And they work very well. And you know, not to have an alarm

system in your house with the availability of just a Ring alarm system or something else for electronic,

you know, other brands too, that are out there, Simply Safe and others, is really a serious mistake,

because you can get yourself and your family electronic protection at a very reasonable cost today. I

mean, look, decades ago, you had to hire a professional alarm company. They had to hard wire, and

they had to do all the switches, all that. What they have available today is amazing and very effective. It

can give you that added peace of mind, and you can combine it with the cameras, both inside cameras

outside cameras and other motion detectors.

Evan Nappen 06:07

All kinds of things are out there that you can do yourself pretty darn easily and give yourself the

protection. You want to combine that protection with good lighting. Lighting is also very important.

Lighting helps discourage theft and other bad people. It illuminates them, and also the camera records

them. It can also give you advance warning of individuals that come into your perimeter by both the

camera surveillance and by the alarm itself. I mean, you know, you go to sleep at night. You have your

cameras, and you turn on the perimeter of your alarm. You’re protecting yourself and your family. And

you know that the physical security becomes important. You have the good locks. You have your

valuables stored in safes. You hopefully have your dog or dogs, and you have your firearms. When you

have that gamut of protection, both electronic and physical, you know that you’re maximizing your

ability to defend yourself and your loved ones. These things today can be accomplished at a very

reasonable cost, and there’s really no reason that an average person cannot have security that

decades ago would have been tens of thousands of dollars. This is the new world.

Evan Nappen 07:45

And not only that, it combines into apps on your phone. You’re able to control your alarm away from

your home, turning it on and off. You can see what activity is going on. You’re able to look at the

cameras. You don’t have to even be at your house, and you can surveil and see and get notice. It is

really an amazing time when you consider what’s available in electronic security and in physical

security, with the better locks, enforcers that can be added to doors. Things that can be not even as

obvious, but adding tremendous security. And this is a mindset, folks. It’s a mindset for the new year.

Page – 2 – of 10You should do your own security evaluation of your home and your property. Look to see if you have

bushes or trees that block the view from the road, where persons can break in through a window and

not be seen. Look at your lighting. Take a look. Is it lit up? Well, look at your cameras and the angles

and areas that are covered by your outdoor cameras, by your floodlight cameras. Look at where you

have cameras inside your home. Now, you want to be aware of your own privacy, and that’s very

important. But there are places in your home that you don’t frequent all the time, basements, garages,

etc., where you can have cameras to even provide interior protection should an intruder come in. These

are things to consider in the full picture of your security.

Evan Nappen 09:26

And if you’re able to have a dog, let me tell you, dogs can make a huge difference. You know, in

surveys they’ve done on felons and criminals and such, they ask what they’re most afraid of? Well, the

number one thing that criminals are afraid of is an armed homeowner. That’s right. Number one thing

they’re afraid of is a homeowner with a gun. So, right there is an important deterrent factor. The second

thing that felons, criminals, etc. are most afraid of is two dogs. Believe it or not, two dogs really freaks

them out. That gets their attention. But even having one dog is very important, because dogs bark.

Dogs are keenly aware. Their senses are better than yours and mine, superior. And dogs are an alert

system. I know of cases, actual cases, where individuals were looking to do a hot robbery and, even

worse, commit murder, just to randomly kill, and they went to canvas homes. And homes that had dogs

they avoided, and they hit the home that didn’t have a dog. It wouldn’t matter if the home they came to

had a little yapper that was barking, they avoided that home just because of the dog being there as an

alert system. So, dogs are very important, very critical. I would highly recommend having a dog. The

other thing is dogs, you know, they are loyal, and depending on your type of dog, most of the dogs

designed for security, will happily give their life to save yours. And dogs can buy the time in between

the bad guys wanting to harm you and your family, for you to get to your gun to have the ultimate

protection.

Evan Nappen 11:42

So, these are things you need to consider when you look at your own security and your own physical

security of yourself and your family. At the beginning of the year, it’s a good time to think about it and

figure how secure are you? Ask yourself, how secure are you when you go to sleep at night? Do you

feel secure? Do you have camera surveillance? Do you have alarm surveillance? Do you have a dog

on the lookout? Do you have your firearms? Do you know how to use them? Are you trained? And do

other members of your family understand how to use these things as well? Think about these things. I

want all my listeners to be safe and protected, and these are things that can help you and may make

the difference. So, stay safe in ’26, folks. It’s going to be an interesting year, that’s for sure.

Evan Nappen 12:36

And with the Big Beautiful Bill kicking in, with no more NFA tax, and with very interesting court cases

proceeding, we may be able to enhance our security even more with guns and accessories that the

Second Amendment oppressors have tried to stop us from having. So, stay tuned. Teddy, what do you

have for us today?

Page – 3 – of 10Teddy Nappen 13:07

Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free, and this is something that kind of came up as I was

flipping through. This is actually an issue. We kind of talked about the whole idea of defensive property.

So, this is out of Pennsylvania, from Kinship News by Petrana Radulovic.

(https://www.kinship.com/news/pennsylvania-pets-are-family-divorce) Pennsylvania House passed a

bill saying pets are family members, not objects. I’m not joking.

Evan Nappen 13:45

Well, pets are normally viewed as property.

Teddy Nappen 13:47

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 13:48

Now they’re declaring pets to be family members.

Teddy Nappen 13:53

Yep, the article talks.

Evan Nappen 13:54

Can I take them as a deduction on my income tax?

Teddy Nappen 13:57

I don’t know. This is the thing, though, it opens up that gate. Well, it may just might because in

Pennsylvania, the House passed a new bill classifying pets as living beings that are generally guarded

as cherished family members. In the bill.

Evan Nappen 14:17

Cherished family members.

Teddy Nappen 14:19

During divorce proceedings. There’s the caveat.

Evan Nappen 14:23

Oh, okay.

Teddy Nappen 14:24

It’s House Bill 92, and it passed with 121 over 82. Now going for the Senate. The argument was that

the statute for special category for companion animals, where judges would then be legally required to

consider the welfare of the pets when it comes to which individual gets custody.

(https://pawprintoxygen.com/blogs/healthy-paws/pennsylvania-pet-custody-law-update) It’s literally

taking.

Page – 4 – of 10Evan Nappen 14:49

Well, some people are very attached to our dogs. We get very emotionally attached.

Teddy Nappen 14:55

But it takes the whole stage of who gets the dog to a whole new level.

Evan Nappen 15:00

Yeah, I guess it does. Well, maybe you can request visitation for your dog. But the problem is, well, it

could be beneficial, because if it’s viewed that way, and gun owners defend their dog from harm. It’s

actually may, down the road, maybe raise it to the same as protecting a human. So, that given how

emotionally attached we are to our dogs, that defending our dog, you know, but it also, you know,

basically it’s John Wick. It’s the entire premise of John Wick, huh, when it comes to that, as to your dog

being harmed.

Teddy Nappen 15:49

Well, I look at it as the slippery slope where they say it’s a fallacy, but in actuality, just because the

amount of things that have opened the floodgates, cut to transgender, men can become women. You

can cut to any subject where it’s like, well, they didn’t look at the unintended consequences of these

actions. Where, right now, it opens that door, where could dogs not be considered property. Could you

defend your dog in a self-defense? And funny enough, right out of here, out of USA Carry, it was a

whole article by Brian Armstrong. “Can you use deadly force to protect your pet?” And it was one of

those where he brings up a variety of scenarios where, generally speaking, if someone’s attacking your

dog, you can’t just shoot them.

Evan Nappen 16:41

Right. Because the dog is property, and yet, maybe we’ll see that turn around if dogs start being treated

as family members under the law. But it does open it up to, well, if we start treating them as people,

then how can you know, what if you have to put your dog down? Like you can’t take your kid to have

them put down, right? Because that’s a person. But what about a dog or a cat, etc.? And by the way,

why are we excluding cats? Do cats get covered under this, too? Cats aren’t going to be considered

family members?

Teddy Nappen 17:19

It says pets, so I guess dogs and cats.

Evan Nappen 17:20

Oh, so wait a minute. So, any pet?

Teddy Nappen 17:26

Any pet. Like my pet rock, my pet Scorpion.

Evan Nappen 17:29

See now it starts to open up. Gerbils, horses, right?

Page – 5 – of 10Teddy Nappen 17:37

It’s one of those. But.

Evan Nappen 17:38

My pet alligator. My comfort Gator.

Teddy Nappen 17:42

However, I do look at some of the positives. I know we had this whole back and forth on the right of

defending property, and I think this could open things up for that. Where people could have the right in

using lethal force to defend property. It’s one of those that I would like to see them iron that out more.

Even in the article, he was bringing up scenarios where you could have that situation. He brought up,

like a man’s walking down and you see a dog attacking your dog, and where you have that idea where

you’re technically trying to defend property, from the, you know, you can shoot like wild animals

attacking your dog.

Evan Nappen 18:20

Well, in some states, they have laws allowing you to shoot dogs that are wild, that are feral, that attack

deer, etc. Some of that’s out there, but you know, normally, though they’re viewed as property. And if

we’re going to start giving them status as humans that can cut both ways. It can be problematic too.

Because if an individual then shoots a dog, they may face penalties as if they shot a person.

Teddy Nappen 19:01

I know. Your very first case. This is the exact issue, actually.

Evan Nappen 19:04

Exactly, exactly, exactly my very first case. And, yeah, well, I don’t know. Because, you know, I haven’t

discussed that in a while. Maybe I should actually tell that story here, because it is a classic of one of

the earliest cases.

Teddy Nappen 19:26

A tale as old as time, one might say.

Evan Nappen 19:29

Yeah, this is in another state, other than New Jersey. My client was shooting coyotes out his bedroom

window at three o’clock in the morning over a bait and a light, which was perfectly legal in the place

where he was doing it, believe it or not. But, unfortunately, there was a dog that belonged to a neighbor

that lived, not really that close, but the dog, apparently, that night, decided to run with the homeboys.

You know, with the coyotes. And my client, inadvertently, shot the dog thinking it was a coyote. And

what he would do is he’d shoot the coyotes and leave them there so that other coyotes came and he’d

shoot them, too. He didn’t go out there to retrieve dead coyotes. Well, anyway, that night, after shooting

the dog, unbeknownst to him, there’s this banging on his door. A woman is there holding her dog that’s

been shot. And she’s like, you shot my dog, you shot my dog. And he’s like, oh my god, I had no clue. I

had no idea. I’m sorry. I’m so sorry.

Page – 6 – of 10Evan Nappen 20:37

And she’s all bent about it. I mean, I can understand, you know, who wants to have their dog shot? On

the other hand, she should not be letting her dog run around loose. So, she calls the police, and the

police come. The police say, hey, lady, we’ve told you a half a dozen times not to let your dog run

loose. So, too bad. Your dog was shot, but it’s not criminal. Goodbye. Well, she’s not to be deterred,

and she calls Fish and Game. Well, it so happens that there was a Fish and Game law that had

relatively recently come out about shooting a dog. If you shot a dog while hunting or any other way, you

were required to call it in that a dog was shot. Anyway, this Fish and Game Officer decides to be the

white knight for this woman who’s hysterical and charges my client with shooting the dog and not

reporting it, etc. Now, of course, it was reported because the police had come. So, it was reported, but

it didn’t stop them.

Evan Nappen 21:47

So, anyway, the charge moves into the Municipal Court. We bring a motion not only based on the facts,

that he arguably did have it get reported because the police came, but also that this law was, in effect,

a violation of his Fifth Amendment, because it was requiring self-incrimination in mandating this

reporting. And when I put this through the Fish and Game Officer who in this state, they would

prosecute their own cases, a couple things. He had actually gotten sick and tired of this woman who

was just incessantly hysterical and just couldn’t get over this. And he had, I think, had enough of that,

and realized that we were in a constitutional area on this new law, and that there actually was arguably

a reporting. So, he dismissed the case without us having to actually have the hearing.

Evan Nappen 22:56

And so with the case dismissed, I walked out of the court with my client, and I’m explaining to him how

he can get his gun back from the Fish and Game Officer. And this woman comes running out of the

courtroom. She’s at the top of the courthouse steps. She has a dozen pictures of the dog in her fists,

and she’s waving them around. She’s screaming and yelling. She comes running down the steps, and

she starts pounding my client on his chest with these photos of the dog, and screaming, you killed my

dog. You killed my dog. And he kind of falls backwards. I’m there, and I just try to give her a command

to stop. I said stop, you know, stop. Stop that. Back off, right? Trying to just command her to stop. At

which time, she turns and she points her finger at me with a fistful of dog pictures, and she says, and

you his mother fucking fat attorney. At which time I said, how dare you call me an attorney. And right

then and there, the bailiffs grabbed her and arrested her. They took her away. My client, I’m saying him,

are you okay? Are you okay? Because he’s still on the ground, and he goes, yeah, I’m okay. Man, I’m

just laughing so hard I can’t get up. So, that is the famous dog shooting case. True story.

Evan Nappen 24:39

And anyway, well, Teddy, we’ll see what happens about dogs taking on human status. But I want to

mention our good friends at WeShoot.

Teddy Nappen 24:52

It could be a voting block.

Page – 7 – of 10Evan Nappen 24:54

Yeah, it could be. I wouldn’t be surprised since the Democrats are losing their illegal alien voting base.

Maybe this is part of their plan. Maybe we got to get dogs to vote. But they might, who knows? Dogs

are pretty smart. They probably wouldn’t vote Democrat, except for maybe some poodles. I don’t know.

Sometimes they’re pretty smart, too. Maybe they’d go the right way.

Teddy Nappen 25:17

A lot of golden retrievers.

Evan Nappen 25:19

Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, what do you think about that? Well, goldens are pretty good. I don’t know. I

don’t want to be insulting to goldens.

Teddy Nappen 25:25

They’re very loving, but they’re very stupid.

Evan Nappen 25:27

They are. Oh, my god. Do you know how much hate mail you’re gonna get for saying that? We love all

dogs.

Teddy Nappen 25:34

I’m not saying I don’t love them. I’m just saying, like golden retrievers are so.

Evan Nappen 25:35

Well, they better not be only, only Democrat Golden Retrievers. We will not.

Teddy Nappen 25:42

German, the German Shepherds, though, those are crazy smart, where they were open, you know, the

door.

Evan Nappen 25:47

The Dems will claim that the German Shepherds are fascist, racist, of course. You know, extreme right.

I could just hear it. Oh, God, this is gonna get off the charts. Well, let me mention our good friends at

WeShoot, who is, of course, our favorite range. Where we, you and me, Teddy. We shoot there. We

train there. We got our CCARE certificates there, and lots of other good training. Great pro shop, great

range. They’re located right there in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the Parkway. Easy access. Great

folks. Great environment. State of the art range, great pro shop, and a fantastic website. Go to

weshootusa.com, and you can check out their website. They have all kinds of great specials and sales,

and they send out news alerts and bulletins letting you know about all kinds of special deals. And

actually, their emails are excellent. Even their communication is excellent with WeShoot. WeShoot

members, they love we shoot, and I know you’ll love it, too. So, check out WeShoot. Pay them a visit.

You’ll see why we shoot there, and you’ll see why it’s one of the finest ranges and best resources for

gun owners right there in Central Jersey. weshootusa.com

Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 27:22

And I also want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are

the premier gun rights defenders for New Jersey. They’re there in the courts, fighting as we speak.

Fighting right now, in that Third Circuit Court of Appeals on the Carry Killer Law, assault firearms, and

magazines. It’s great. We’re going to see some awesome results. I’m very optimistic here. We’re going

to finally see New Jersey put in its place by the judiciary. This is great stuff. We can thank President

Trump for that. Many of the judges that he has been, both his first term and second term, they’re

making all the difference when it comes to enforcing and protecting our Second Amendment rights. And

the Association is there litigating in federal court. They also have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton.

Please make sure you join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. anjrpc.org ANJRPC is

the premier organization, folks, and when you belong to them, you’re going to get email alerts as to the

shenanigans going on in Trenton, as to the progress in the litigation. You’re going to be on top of things

and be able to take action as needed. So, please join. Make sure you’re a member.

Evan Nappen 28:58

And let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun

law, and if you don’t have a copy, you’re at a severe disadvantage, because it is the best anti-GOFU

medicine there is. My book is written to protect law-abiding gun owners, to teach them what they need

to know to try to remain law- abiding in the extremely challenging state of the Democratic People’s

Republic of New Jersey. So, get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law by going to EvanNappen.com.

Evan nappen.com. It’s the big orange book. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all question and

answer. Scan the front cover QR code there and join my private subscriber base. It’s private, and you

will get email updates. You’ll also be able to get access to the archives. You’ll get email alerts from me

as the law changes. Go to EvanNappen.com and get your copy today.

Evan Nappen 30:08

So, speaking of GOFUs, what do we have this week for GOFU? Well, I’m going to tell you. We were

just talking about security at the beginning of the show, but, you know, you’ve got to be careful with

your own security. Because you don’t want to have GOFU if you’re using cameras. You want to be

careful about your own privacy. You want to be careful about what you film. And yet, sometimes by not

having cameras, you can be put at a disadvantage, and that can be a GOFU. So, the importance of

your cameras can help you in a situation of self- defense, because it can demonstrate that you were

justified. But at the same time, if you acted wrongly, it could be a problem. But since you are only going

to act properly, it will end up documenting in video what occurred, and this has made the difference in

cases that I’ve had where there have been Ring and other video that exculpate. That’s a fancy legal

word for essentially proving or demonstrating innocence. Exculpating the client from certain charges.

Evan Nappen 31:43

So, the GOFU can be a GOFU if it’s not used properly, but in this instance, the GOFU might become

the opposite, an advantage, when used properly. So, consider that when dealing with your security

situation, and think about the scenarios that you may have to deal with in how you place and distribute

your cameras and your alarm. And how you take care of your guns and your dog and how you maintain

physical security, by securing your firearms when they’re not being used, etc. These are all important

considerations as you begin this new year, so that we can all stay safe.

Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 32:34

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from

criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 32:46

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 10 – of 10

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Second Amendment, New Jersey Democrats, gun laws, machine gun conversion devices, digital

instructions, firearm components, gun owner gulag, cash bail, pre-trial detention, carry killer bill,

sensitive places, gun rights, constitutional rights, gun lawyer.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, the New Jersey Democrats are going to give gun owners a

Nightmare Before Christmas. What they are doing is pushing a package of Second Amendment

oppression upon us, and they decided that the perfect time to do it is right before Christmas. On

Monday, December 22, the Senate will be having a voting session. They’re going to be looking at bills

that we’re going to talk about right now, and you need to take action. You know, you need to let the

legislators know that you oppose this. Hopefully you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle &

Pistol Clubs. If not, you need to join. That’s anjrpc.org. They send out the news releases where you can

immediately take action and let the legislature know your feelings on their oppression of our Second

Amendment rights as they continue to attack them.

Evan Nappen 01:33

Now, we have some very problematic laws that they’re going to be trying to jam through, and I want to

make sure that you’re aware of what they are and what they mean. So, we have what is A-4974, and its

companion in the Senate is S-3893. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/S3893) This bill

establishes criminal penalties for sale and possession of machine gun conversion devices. Now, of

course, these things are already banned. They’re already banned under federal law and state law, but

New Jersey just can’t ban something enough, right? So, they’re just duplicating here even more bans

upon bans. This is supposedly addressing so-called Glock triggers, but New Jersey usually finds a way

to expand it to all kinds of other nonsense. We’ve seen these things lead off into false charges over

devices that are not designed to convert to machine guns, but instead designed to simply improve

accuracy and a trigger or those kind of things. So, these things are just problematic, and they’re just

putting bans on top of bans. And they just want to make sure their name is on a piece of law where

they’re “doing something about it”. You know, to sell red meat to their base. So, we have that to deal

with.

Page – 1 – of 10Evan Nappen 03:16

Additionally, we have A-4975 and the Senate companion bill is S-3894.

(https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A3894) This bill establishes a crime of possessing digital

instructions to illegally manufacture firearms and firearm components. Now, keep in mind, back in 2018

Murphy signed a law banning the use and sale these digital files already, but this bill is even worse. The

mere possession of the files will result in incredibly harsh penalties, even if you unknowingly possess

them on a long forgotten computer, etc. So, New Jersey is turning firearm information, pure firearm

digital information, into the equivalent of possessing child pornography. Simple possession of the digital

file itself.

Evan Nappen 04:20

It doesn’t matter that you never had any intention to actually build a firearm, but this gun information is

itself being turned into contraband. Now, of course, this brings in First Amendment issues as well as

Second Amendment issues, and I’m sure this will as well be subject to challenge. But nonetheless, it

puts gun owners at risk that utilize internet and such for downloads of different things. Strictly for

informational purposes. Even though you had no intent to 3D print a gun or not, or to use it with a CNC

machine to make guns or even gun parts. So, this bill is another oppression of Second Amendment

rights, and this time an oppression of First Amendment rights. But since when do Democrats care about

rights? So, you need to oppose this as well.

Evan Nappen 05:25

There is another bill, Assembly 4978, and the Senate companion is 3897.

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S4000/3897_I1.HTM) Now, this bill requires the Attorney General to

report data regarding shootings that did not result in bodily injury. This type of data accumulation is

used so then they can twist it into political fodder to further pass other Second Amendment oppression

laws. This is their game. So, this is a step in, you know, focusing on the potential discharge law, making

accidents into crimes, and using it to become automatic licensing disqualifiers, what become essentially

per se felonies. This is how their evil works. This is what they do. This is their machinations, and this is

the beginnings of them laying the groundwork to do that very thing. We’ve seen this playbook before,

as they put data together that they then abuse in the manner that suits their purposes. So, of course,

we have to fight this.

Evan Nappen 06:53

Another incredibly serious other bill that’s in the Nightmare Before Christmas is Assembly 4981. The

companion is S-3900. (https://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bill-search/2024/A4981) Now, this bill is a Gun

Owner Gulag enhancement bill. This law will take the Gun Owner Gulag and make it even worse. So,

as you should be familiar, but I want to make sure you are, New Jersey has the Gun Owner Gulag,

which is New Jersey’s elimination of cash bail. In getting rid of cash bails, like so many progressive blue

states took those actions to do that in the specifically during the, you know, defund police movement

and all that. You normally hear about the cashless bails being utilized, where actual criminals, bona fide

bad guys, you know, rapists, murders, etc, are put in a revolving door and released very quickly out in

the street, particularly if they have other characteristics that the Left is favoring, such as being, you

Page – 2 – of 10know, illegally in the country and things like that. They want those people out fast. So, it gets used in

that way.

Evan Nappen 08:15

But when it comes to weaponization of it against gun owners, well, that’s a different story. They want to

imprison us. Okay? So they want to make sure that any gun owner that has a problem, well, they’re

going to be subject to the Gulag, where they’re going to be held without bail until their trial, because

there is no more bail in New Jersey. And what happens is the prosecutor seeks what is called pre-trial

detention. And if pre-trial detention is granted, you’re going to sit in jail, having been proven guilty of

nothing, until your trial, and that can be months or years. So, this is the Gulag, and that’s how it

operates. Well, that’s bad enough. We fight these Gulag cases all the time, trying to get gun owners out

because just about any gun offense is a felony level. New Jersey calls them crimes, and they’re

normally warrant offenses. You get arrested and then you’re put through the Gulag where you’re held

for 48 hours while the prosecutor decides whether to seek pre-trial detention or not.

Evan Nappen 09:20

And their policies are, generally, in every gun case, they seek the Gulag, which is to hold you without

bail. So, you’re going to be held at least, normally, another five days before your hearing, where your

attorney will finally get to argue to get you out. And if your attorney is not successful in doing that, you

are staying in with no bail. Well, this bill is an enhancement to that. It will allow the court to take even

more time on any firearm offense where they get to hold you for yet another seven days, so that an

operability report can somehow be provided regarding the operability of a firearm, which is often

irrelevant to the criminal charge, especially in New Jersey. Operability is not even necessarily required

for a firearm conviction, but here the abuse of it will be added into the Gulag’s initial holding of the gun

owner. So, now you’re going to be arrested on the warrant charge on whatever the allegation of the

firearm offense is, even though you’re innocent, it won’t matter. It’s a gun offense. So, the 48 hours, the

prosecutor by way of their policy is going to hold you seeking pre-trial detention. Then that pre-trial

detention hearing has to get scheduled within, arguably, five days, and normally it’s about that, five

days, before you have the hearing.

Evan Nappen 10:57

But if we get to that hearing and they say, oh no, we want another seven days, at least, here the seven

days to get an operability report. So, now you’re going to be in jail for approximately two weeks, two

weeks, without bail, because there is no bail. And that’s just to get you to the hearing so your attorney

can try to argue to defeat the prosecutor’s motion for pre-trial detention. And they’re going to now throw

this into the mix. So, you can figure with any gun arrest, you know, you’re falsely accused of being in a

“sensitive place” or you’re falsely accused of possession of an assault firearm, or you’re falsely accused

of unlawful possession of your handgun. You know all kind of false charges and gun rights oppression

that I deal with all the time in practice. Well, you’re going to be at least two weeks in jail now before we

can even get you out so we can fight the charge that will eventually get you acquitted of. Isn’t that cute?

And that’s if your attorney knows how to get you out and succeeds in doing so. Because if not, you’ll

just sit in jail until your trial to finally prove that. So, this is the just horrible addition to the Gun Owner

Gulag.

Page – 3 – of 10Evan Nappen 12:20

These bills need to be fought, and they need to be fought vigorously. Make sure you make your voices

heard. Make sure you belong to ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They

have a full-time paid lobbyist. They have a vigorous process here trying to fight this, but of course,

we’re dealing with a state where it is a tremendous battle for the forces of constitutional rights

protection. Here to succeed, it’s a difficult, challenging environment, but we have to keep up the fight.

We have to make our voices known, and we can make changes. As a matter of fact, that Gulag bill, the

Association was able to change the original form where it was an indefinite amount of time until they

finally got the report. At least it’s been modified to a mere seven days extra. So, now it’s only two weeks

in jail, guilty of nothing. Simply because you lawfully exercised your rights in New Jersey. So, these

laws are terrible. They are more oppression from our oppressors. We need to fight it and make sure

you do.

Evan Nappen 13:44

Now, on a little bit of a Christmas gift here, despite the nightmare that the New Jersey Democrats are

placing upon us. I do want to mention that thanks to President Trump and his appointment of judges

throughout the land, not the least of which, of course, is the Supreme Court, getting three conservative

constitutionalist judges there. But also his ability to add to the judges of the Third Circuit Court of

Appeals. And because of President Trump particularly adding the last two judges that are constitutional

judges that understand the significance of the Second Amendment, the full panel of 14 judges has

agreed to hear the appeal in the Siegel versus Platkin, which is the Carry Killer lawsuit that challenges

all these sensitive places and the other onerous restrictions that were put forward in the Carry Killer bill.

And as you may know, the initial appeal with the three-judge panel, the three-judge panel that had ruled

not tremendously in our favor, has been wiped out, wiped out. Now, the full panel of 14 judges are

going to hear and decide the Carry Killer bill. This is very good news for us.

Evan Nappen 15:26

This is something that makes me cautiously optimistic that we’re going to see some protection and our

Second Amendment rights enforced, and it’s very, very important. Of course, New Jersey fought tooth

and nail to try to stop the full panel from granting the en banc full panel, but the Association, particularly

my good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, was successful here in having that full panel take the

case. So, this will also bode well, because by getting a decision that knocks out most, if not all, of the

Carry Killer bill, it’ll also lay the groundwork for the Supreme Court of the United States. If we start

getting split decisions in the circuits over these sensitive place gambit that the Second Amendment

oppressionists have pulled after Bruen to try to limit our rights, we may, in fact, see even a national

case killing it permanently for the country. But here in New Jersey, we stand in good stead at the

moment.

Evan Nappen 16:47

Keep in mind that, at the moment, where can you carry and what are the categories where you can and

can’t carry right now, at the current state. Remember, you cannot lawfully carry, even with a New

Jersey carry permit, within 100 feet of a public gathering, demonstration or event requiring a

Government permit. You’re still barred from zoos, parks, beaches, recreational facilities or areas owned

or controlled by the state, county or local government unit designated as a gun-free zone. Publicly

Page – 4 – of 10owned or leased libraries or museums. Bars or restaurants where alcohol is served and any other sites

or facilities where alcohol is sold for consumption on the premises. Entertainment facilities. Casinos and

related facilities. And healthcare facilities.

Evan Nappen 17:41

Now you currently can lawfully carry with a New Jersey carry permit, of course, while this appeal is not

resolved. These things are still blocked, though, and you’re able to carry, and this isn’t a complete list.

But essentially in vehicles. As you may recall, the carjacker protection law that was built into the Carry

Killer law, saying that you couldn’t have your loaded gun on your person in your vehicle. That is still

blocked, and we are, we may carry in our vehicle, in that manner. Private property open to the public is

no longer and still is not a sensitive place. In public film locations, we are able to carry. Additionally, the

ruling is still in effect blocking the insurance requirement. As you may recall, at some point, Murphy

issued an Executive Order banning the sale of so-called murder insurance, where you had gun owner

protection programs, and then proceeded in the Carry Killer bill to mandate by law that you get actual

murder insurance. Meaning insurance if someone commits an intentional act with a firearm, essentially

murdering somebody. That’s been blocked. So, we don’t have to have insurance to have a carry

license. And blocking certain permit procedures and requirements that were more administrative in

nature.

Evan Nappen 19:23

So, this is where we’re standing. But the good news is, with the full panel reviewing it, I’m very excited

to see that outcome, and so should you. So, there is still hope. There is hope that the judiciary is going

to speak for our rights, and that same full panel will be also considering New Jersey’s magazine ban

and so-called assault firearm ban. So we are hopeful for some very good outcomes here, and we’ll

keep you informed here on Gun Lawyer.

Evan Nappen 20:07

Let me also mention our good friends at WeShoot. That’s where Teddy and I both shoot and where we

get our training. And you will love WeShoot. WeShoot is a great indoor range right in Lakewood,

conveniently off the Parkway. They constantly run great sales, and they have great service, a fantastic

pro shop and a state of the art range, great training. I really can’t give it high enough praise. We love

WeShoot, and so will you. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. They have a great website with

beautiful photographs. And you don’t want to miss the WeShoot girls that are there posing with some of

the finest guns that you will ever see. So, make sure you go to WeShoot and take advantage of that

fantastic resource for gun owners, right in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 21:11

And let me also shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun

law. Make sure you get the book, folks. You need this book. It is the guidebook to keeping you safe, out

of jail and not committing GOFUs in New Jersey. It’s 120 topics, all question and answer. It fills you in

so you will know what the law is. It is the guidebook used by thousands and thousands of gun owners

throughout New Jersey. You can get your copy today by going to EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com.

Hey, Teddy, what do you have for us today?

Page – 5 – of 10Teddy Nappen 21:56

Well, one of the things you know, it’s the holidays, Christmas, and everything’s coming along, and all

the wins that have been coming through, and all the crazy insanity that you’ve described. I always think

back to the show that you introduced me to, Paladin. There’s a particular episode, I think it was even

the Christmas episode where Paladin is there. It’s a whole deal with the fan, like, there’s a small, I think

it’s like a house living out there. And the ending line to the whole episode is, it’s Christmas. He’s saying

to the guy, it’s Christmas. This is the, this is the one day of the year where we pretend there’s no evil.

And that kind of sticks with me in the idea of this is supposed to be the time spent with family, and

particularly, we can pretend and not think about all the anti-gun jerks and the gun rights oppressors.

This is the time to enjoy Christmas movies, particular ones that involve firearms. So, as I was scanning

through the internet, I saw one, I love this article, the top 10 Christmas movies with guns.

(https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/top-10-christmas-movies-with-guns/) Hey.

Evan Nappen 23:17

So, that is what Christmas should be about. Guns.

Teddy Nappen 23:22

Yeah, exactly. And to start things off, of course, they go with the most controversial one, which is Die

Hard.

Evan Nappen 23:31

Which we will agree is a Christmas movie.

Teddy Nappen 23:35

Correct. I’ve heard all the debates.

Evan Nappen 23:37

Ho, ho, ho. I have a machine gun. How does it get any less Christmas than that.

Teddy Nappen 23:42

And quite simply, it’s not Christmas without Hans Gruber falling off the Nakatomi building.

Evan Nappen 23:49

Yeah, and you know what gun he had, right?

Teddy Nappen 23:55

So, well, you had Bruce Willis with his Beretta 92 with the focus.

Evan Nappen 24:01

Of course.

Teddy Nappen 24:02

But there’s also the MP 5.

Page – 6 – of 10Evan Nappen 24:05

Yippie IA, Yippie Ki A.

Teddy Nappen 24:08

And the P7 M13s.

Evan Nappen 24:12

P7 that what Hans there, I believe, had.

Teddy Nappen 24:17

Correct. And it was very good gun play in that part, where he’s no bullets, and it tricks him. The next

one, this is actually, it’s one of those where it’s like, what the heck is this movie? I had to watch it,

though. I think you were there when we watched Fat Man.

Evan Nappen 24:36

Oh god, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 24:37

It is probably the funniest, like, weirdest film you could watch. We have Mel Gibson and is this whole

plot to murder Santa Claus. It’s him fighting, fighting Boyd Crowder from Justified. Walter Goggins.

Crazy gun play between a 1911 and the fat man using a Colt Walker.

Evan Nappen 25:06

Yep, definitely. It’s an entertaining film.

Teddy Nappen 25:12

Yeah, it’s just one of those. I was like, okay, interesting. Now, this is technically Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang,

which is a Christmas heist of a film. I don’t know if you ever saw it. With Robert Downey, Jr.

Evan Nappen 25:26

I may have.

Teddy Nappen 25:27

Kind of an action comedy. They’re carrying their Vector CP One.

Evan Nappen 25:34

Oh, Vectors are in it. Huh, okay.

Teddy Nappen 25:35

Yeah. And, of course, another HK P7. It’s kind of one of one of those, you kind of spot there. But I was

like, I didn’t realize it involved Christmas.

Page – 7 – of 10Teddy Nappen 25:44

The one I will highlight, though I always thought was funny, he put on Home Alone, one and two. Here’s

the reason. Because, remember, the kid, he plays that clip, the black and white movie where he keeps.

Evan Nappen 25:44

Well, you know, the P7 used to be the pistol of the New Jersey State Police, but they had over 40

accidental discharges with it, and they gave it up. And that’s because, although it was marketed as

being one of the safest guns, the problem is, it’s a front squeeze that cocks the gun, when you squeeze

the front. Unlike a 1911 that has a safety on the back, this squeeze cocks from the front. And the

problem is, if you, if you’re not practiced and trained well enough, when you draw the gun out of a

holster, you’re cocking it as you pull it out, and that creates a situation that is not exactly the safest

situation to be in. There were numerous ADs with that gun. So, something to keep in mind. I think

they’re cool and a very interesting design, but I remember seeing Superintendent Pagano talking about

it. And he basically said, hey, look, it’s not the gun’s fault. He’s blaming his men. How nice of him.

Yeah, right. So that was that episode of the gun, in theory, seeming like it may have been one of the

safest guns, but in reality, it was prone to needing a lot of training to make sure that you didn’t cock it

until you were ready to. So, there you go.

Evan Nappen 27:36

Oh yeah.

Teddy Nappen 27:36

The bad guys, oh yeah, yeah. Well, I believe you, but my tommy gun don’t. And it’s like, you’ve been

smooching with everybody. Snuffy, Dale, Leo, Little Mo with the gimpy leg, Bony Bob, Cliff, and the guy

thinks he’s actually like sleeping with all these individuals.

Evan Nappen 27:58

Great.

Teddy Nappen 27:59

Yeah. The Thompson 1921 AC sub machine gun. The actual movie is Angel With Filthy Souls.

Evan Nappen 28:08

Hmm huh. Okay.

Teddy Nappen 28:11

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 28:11

So, that was actually a clip from an actual movie?

Teddy Nappen 28:14

Yeah, that was funny. And, of course, The Christmas Story with the Red Ryder BB gun.

Page – 8 – of 10Evan Nappen 28:20

Oh, the classic of all classics. And in New Jersey, that’s a firearm. It’s not a BB, you know? It’s not just

a little old BB gun. There it is, bona fide, defined as a firearm.

Teddy Nappen 28:32

Yeah. And they threw in some honorable mentions, like White Christmas. Where it takes, the start is at

the Battle of the Bulge. So, you have the M1 Garand coming into play of that. And then.

Evan Nappen 28:46

As Patton said, the greatest battle rifle ever devised.

Teddy Nappen 28:51

I’d agree. And then you have Scrooged with Santa wielding the XM 556 mini gun.

Evan Nappen 29:00

Okay.

Teddy Nappen 29:02

And then also Bill Murray with his, remember, he had a stainless snub nose revolver because he’s

freaking out that a ghost is there.

Evan Nappen 29:10

Okay, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 29:12

They couldn’t determine that.

Evan Nappen 29:14

He didn’t do much with him and guns, but yeah. Unless it’s some gun for taking out ghosts, right? Ghost

Busters.

Teddy Nappen 29:22

Oh, and of course, our Majesty’s Secret Service, James Bond and Christmas, what more could you

want? With his Walther PPK.

Evan Nappen 29:33

Oh yeah, James Bond sometimes had some screwy gun stuff. I remember in one of them where he has

an AR7, and the guy’s talking about. And it’s a 25 caliber AR. I’m like, it’s not 25. It’s 22. But hey, what

do they know?

Teddy Nappen 29:52

Yeah, it’s, this is just a fun list, and it’s something I just kind of like, wow, I didn’t really consider some of

these as, like, Chrismas movies. But I guess so.

Page – 9 – of 10Evan Nappen 30:03

Well, as long as it has guns in it, we’ll declare them to be Christmas movies.

Teddy Nappen 30:08

Fair enough. If it has a gun and it’s a Christmas movie, that’s it.

Evan Nappen 30:11

That’s it. That’s the standard from now on. From now on, that’s the standard.

Teddy Nappen 30:16

There you go.

Evan Nappen 30:17

Oh, that’s good stuff, Teddy. And soon we’ll be enjoying Christmas guns. That’s the deal. That’s the

deal. Hey, it is very important that we discuss this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up.

These are mistakes that actual clients make that causes them problems, expensive problems. You get

to learn for free. And this week’s GOFU is about printing. And I don’t mean printing with your computer

printer. I mean about your gun showing when you’re carrying concealed. Now, in New Jersey, it’s not

illegal to print. Believe it or not. A gun has to be concealed, but it doesn’t address printing while

concealed. However, in New Jersey, you don’t want to print. Because not only do we need to carry

concealed, but you want to keep that concealment private and secret.

Evan Nappen 31:20

New Jersey is loaded with all kinds of people that are scared of guns, aren’t used to guns, and they can

end up calling police because they think someone’s carrying a gun. And next thing you know, even

though you’re legal to carry. You also give away tactical advantage, if people can make you as

carrying. And this is an issue where individuals can make false accusations against you if they believe

that you’re carrying. So, you want to make sure you don’t print when you conceal carry in Jersey. Make

sure you are as discrete as possible. Also, you don’t want to inadvertently end up in a sensitive place

and have a gun identified on you because you’re printing. You shouldn’t be in a sensitive place, but if

you’re printing and in a sensitive place, then you’re going to have a bigger problem. So, be very

conscientious when you carry, whether or not you’re printing, or whether your method of carry allows

for inadvertent display of your firearm, even for a moment, because you want to stay discrete. You want

your concealed carry to be concealed carry, and ultimately that gives you, if nothing else, a tactical

advantage of surprise should you need your gun.

Evan Nappen 32:51

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from

criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 33:01

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 10 – of 10

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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