“I think in society we should be asking everyone all the time “aren't you grateful to be alive?” Just in general. So I think it's unfair that society often spins a question on adoptees of that they need to have some sort of obligation to feel gratitude.”

Meet Jordan

“My name is Jordan. I was adopted from Cambodia. I'm a transracial adoptee, um, adopted by two moms. I use she/her pronouns and I identify as pansexual.”

Here's some of what we talked about:

• Her early history of one of her adoptive moms passing away 7 months after her adoption.
• The separation anxiety that came from losing her birth parents and then an adoptive parent.
• The pressure she experienced from the “chosen” adoptee narrative
• How she feels about her original name being taken away
• What she wishes she knew about her history
• Her internal push/pull about whether to do a birth search
• Navigating her multiple intersecting identities
• Learning about attachment theory and how it relates to her own story
• A deep dive on what her parents got right and didn’t get right
• Being in therapy has been helpful in processing her story and healing

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• As much as we adoptive parents can document about our kid’s history, it may be very valuable later
• Jordan’s push/pull of both wanting information and also needing to go at her pace
• I feel grateful that Jordan shared such precious stories from her life

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• What I love about my conversation with Jordan is that it highlights how adoption is a life-long journey and process. Jordan shared stories from different ages and stages of her life and we had the opportunity to get a snapshot into her into thoughts and feelings about how adoption was impacting her at the time.
• Additionally, I’m thankful for the both/and, the contradictions, confusion, unknowns and questions Jordan has about her adoption. Her story isn’t wrapped up into a neat bow.
• I think that’s really beautiful. Jordan’s story highlights the never-ending journey and continued conversation that is adoption.

Shownotes:

“You don't always know what your boundaries are until they're pushed or until they're questioned. And often you're still learning if you're even allowed to set a boundary. Because there's that whole notion of well, once you're here, you're kind of like on other people's terms.”

Meet Svetlana.

"I was adopted from Russia when I was six and a half in a closed adoption. I'm a preschool teacher full-time during the day and I do life coaching on the side."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• Why adoption anniversary "celebrations" can be painful for adoptees
• Setting boundaries around sharing your adoption story
• Finding Russian people and events
• Meeting other adoptees
• Things for prospective adoptive parents to consider before adopting
• Self-care practices she relies on

Annie's take-away for adoptive parents:

• Model setting boundaries when about talking about your family.

Katelyn's take-away for adoptees:

• Hold your boundaries around sharing your story. You don’t owe anyone your story.
• It’s important for people to understand how it causes trauma for adoptees to share our stories!
• Say thank you and give back to adoptees.

“I'm Black in the Mumford And Sons moments and I'm Black in the Kendrick Lamar moments and I guess it's not as much of this badge that I have to show anymore.”

Meet Isaac.

"I'm the founder of Etter Consulting. We specifically consult around transracial adoption, including consultation with adoption agencies. We do a lot to reform adoption within the system. I'm a queer Black man, a father, an activist, and all the fun things."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• How Etter Consulting started from his personal experiences as a transracial adoptee
• His work with young activists to help them create the change they want to see in the world
• Discovering racism on Tumblr when he was 16 and how he processed his thoughts and feelings while living in a white community
• Becoming an activist
• Working with Black kids as a camp counsellor and learning from his experiences with them
• Finding ways to enter activism in a grounded way
• His practices to care for his body and emotions
• Developing a relationship with his birth mother
• The keys to Etter Consulting's impact
• Getting people to open up to real change in his talks
• Helping his participants get to the implementation phase.

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• I heard how adoptees need to be really listening to their bodies and emotions. And that's something as a parent that I can encourage in my kid. I heard the examples of ways to do that being journaling, physical activity (in his case basketball) and meditation. I also want to model those things, because I think we have an easier time doing those things if we see our parents doing them.
• I heard how coming out of the adoption bubble of childhood brings a new layer of challenges and complicated moments. It's so helpful to know that and to be able to anticipate that.
• I also got the book Isaac mentioned: Twenty Things Adopted Kids Wish Their Adoptive Parents Knew. Since it impacted him so much that told me it was worth reading. It's got some gems in it which we can talk about more at some point.

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• I want to encourage adoptees who have been displaced from your community to look to internal validation for your identity. Before entering activism, pay attention to what is going on inside.
• It's important for adoptees to find other adoptees they can share their stories with and feel really seen and heard and validated.

Resources Discussed:

Book: Twenty Things Adopted Kids Wish Their Adoptive Parents Knew by Sherrie Eldridge

Adoptee Influencers who inspire Isaac:

Rhonda Roorda

Hannah Matthews

Tiffany Henness

Brittany Nash

Kevin Hoffmann

Meet Garrett, a Black, transracial adoptee within a domestic open adoption. Garrett's adoptive parents are white.

"You Can't Live Your Kid's Life"

"I don't care what other people think about me because I love myself. If you're gonna love me for who I am, you can come onto my ship and we can ride it together."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• His realization that he could be totally himself and stop pleasing others.
• His answer to people who say "you're parents didn't want you."
• His feelings about his birth family
• How to handle your teenager
• Why you have to let your kids find who they are
• Dealing with racism as a Black kid with 2 white parents
• How he handles racism today
• How PACT Camp helped his family talk about racism
• Working through the idea that he owed his parents something
• Realizing he's amazing
• His relationship with his sister
• Looking forward to his future

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• Take a deep breath and just watch. Don't try to control your kids.

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• Adoptees hold multiple tensions at once, extending compassion and grace even when we're hurt.
• We can feel hurt by our birth parents and stay open to them at the same time.
• We as adoptees cultivate this skill

https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/7

Shownotes:

Meet Christopher: "I use he/him/his pronouns. I identify as a queer transracial adoptee. I was born in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, formerly known as Saigon, Vietnam. I was adopted from Vietnam when I was about a year old. I grew up in Sacramento, California. I was adopted by a white family and raised in a predominantly white community."

"We don't walk around with like a sign over our heads that says 'I'm adopted'....The adoptee identity is an invisible identity."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• Developing his racial identity and his adoptee identity
• Finding language to understand and express his experience
• Why the word "transracial" is so important
• Proximity to whiteness as adoptees of color with white parents
• Questioning the idea of being Asian "enough" and finding a third space
• The intersection of his queer and adoptee identities
• Why adoptees have a unique position in understanding race and racism
• What kinship and family ties mean to adoptees

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• Language matters. I need to find the most empowering language I can, and switch whenever I find more empowering language.
• My kid has an important voice in the future of adoption and race and it's totally his to find and explore and express.
• Adoptees need the biggest seats at the table where adoption gets reimagined.

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• The concept of enoughness is so helpful. I will never be "asian enough" in the context of white supremacy. I am enough.
• If we are not listening to the voices of adoptees, we are just theorizing and we will fall short.
• Adoptees have the least power in the adoption constellation, and we must re-empower them.

shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/6

Meet Olivia, a transracial adoptee who identifies as Black, specifically Jamaican, bisexual, and sis female. She lives with her two white moms and little sister who who is also Black. One of her moms is also an adoptee.

"I went from no birth father connection to all of it in less than 24 hours."

"One of my favorite parts of adoption is that my parents can't pass on some of their bullshit to me as their parents passed on to them....there's no genetic anything happening in my family, so we all have our own journey."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• Growing up in Maine and then Oakland, California
• Moving to Oakland to be in a place with more POC
• How PACT Family Camp impacted her
• Finding her birth father
• Her relationship with her birth mother
• How her white moms work to grow and learn
• What she loves about adoption

shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/5

Meet Katelyn (our guest AND cohost!)

I'm an international adoptee from ZhuZhou, Hunan Province, China, and I'm both the same race and interracial adoptee. I identify as a cisgender, heterosexual woman, and I'm also a follower of Jesus and Christian and I currently work at USF as a college counselor. When I'm not doing that I’m thinking about adoption, talking about adoption, journaling, and running to the beach.

"I think when white parents or any parents adopt outside of their race, you are not only adopting that singular child, but actually in an ideal world you're actually kind of adopting that community and you are choosing to care about the plight of that community."

"I would love to invite adoptive parents to take a critical and conscious lens when adopting, especially from other countries."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• The narrative that adoptees are "lucky"
• How race and racism impacted her growing up
• The white savior narrative (and some ways to resist it)
• Talking about adoption growing up
• Finding an adoptee community as an adult
• Not having information about her birth family
• The opportunity for racial reconciliation in transracial adoption
• How her Christian faith has helped her navigate this process

Annie's take-aways:

• Bring a critical and nuanced lens to the adoption industry.
• Learn and ask questions, and where adoption practices are unjust, call out those injustices.

Katelyn's take-aways:

• Talk about the hard things in adoption.
• Step into the discomfort for the sake of your child.

Shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/4

Meet Shawn, an alum of the foster system who is also a kinship adoptive parent. Shawn identifies as Black and male. He lives with his fiancee and his nephew

"What it's like to be a foster child? The word I like to use is EXPENDABLE."

"That's when shit just started to hit me. I'm no longer part of my family right now. I'm state property."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• Moving from California to South Carolina to live with his aunt
• Entering the foster care system at age 12
• Living with his first foster parents and feeling like a lego piece that doesn't fit
• Living with his second foster parent, Rose, who is still his mother to this day
• Learning about unconditional love
• Sharing that unconditional love with his nephew who he adopted
• Wisdom and honesty for adoptive and foster parents

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• Patience with our kids is key. Our children's behavior comes from many complicated places. We need to stay steady.
• If we're asking whether we're doing enough, that's a good sign.

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• You are loved and you are inherently worthy of love.
• Shawn's relationship with Rose stuck out for me. Life with Rose meant belonging and acceptance, but due to past trauma, he still he rejected her as a teenager. There are layers of trauma to our experience as adoptees.

Resources we talked about:

The Primal Wound By Nancy Verrier

Shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/3

Meet Oliver Jennings, an African-American man, adopted at 22 months, into a same-race adoption with a single mother. He's also a new father.

"You gotta put your shit aside. It's not about how you feel, and them reaching out to their parents isn't because of something that you lack. There's a natural draw to want to know what's going on and where they come from and that's not because you've done anything wrong or because you lack as a parent or because you've done anything incorrect."

Here's some of what we talked about:

• His experience as a same-race adoptee
• Grappling with the narrative that "you were wanted"
• His journey to creating relationships with his birth siblings and birth mother
• Becoming the kind of father he wants to be
• Handling other people's assumptions about his adoptee experience

Annie's take-aways for adoptive parents:

• Take care of our shit somewhere else so we don't get our buttons pushed by our kids.
• Remind our kids they don't have to take care of us.

Katelyn's take-aways for adoptees:

• Find people who hold space for you.
• Give yourself permission to take up space.

shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/2

Welcome to our new podcast, Listening To Adoptees.

We’re your hosts.

• I’m Katelyn, I’m Asian American, cis female, I go by she/her/hers and I’m a transracial and same race international adoptee from China and identify as a follower of Jesus!
• I’m Annie. I am white, cis female, I go by she or they, I’m queer, and I’m the parent of one child through transracial adoption and one through birth.

Listening to Adoptees is a podcast for everyone in the adoption constellation: adoptees, adoptive parents, birth or first or biological parents, siblings, friends, extended family and allies of adoptees. We believe that the people who know the very most about adoption are adoptees. Adoptees are the experts on their own experiences. This podcast is a place to listen to the stories, advice and visions of adoptees. There is no singular story of adoption, so we interview multiple adoptees on this long journey to explore, deepen and learn from adoptees.

We’ll be talking about so many things, including racism, intersecting identities, mistakes some adoptive parents make, things some adoptive parents get right, self-esteem, the huge problems in the adoption and foster care industries, things our guests love about adoption, relationships with birth families, and much more.

We hold a vision where adoptees are the ones who will create a new vision of adoption for our future and the rest of us help to make it so.

Introducing our season one guests!

• Oliver
• Shawn
• Katelyn
• Olivia
• Christopher
• Garrett

We’re so excited to bring you the rest of the season!

We need your help. Please subscribe right now so you don’t miss a single episode, and tell someone who could benefit from listening. That’s the best way for us to grow this podcast.

shownotes at https://www.listeningtoadoptees.com/episodes/1