In this episode Mark and Dave explore the challenging aspects of leadership, particularly the necessity of living "unliked" to achieve impactful change.

They discuss how effective leadership often involves tough decisions and truth-telling that may not be well-received, drawing parallels with historical figures like William Carey and Hudson Taylor.

The conversation also delves into personal experiences and the importance of having a clear vision and identity, highlighting that credibility and respect in leadership are earned through perseverance, even in the face of unpopularity.