Nearly seven years after Google released Kubernetes, the open source container orchestrator, into an unsuspecting world, 5.6 million developers worldwide use it.

But that number, from the latest Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) annual survey, masks a lot of frustration. Kubernetes (K8s) can make life easier for the organization that adopts it — after it makes it a lot harder. And as it scales, it can create an unending cadence of triumph and challenge.

In other words: It’s complicated.

At KubeCon + CloudNativeCon EU in Valencia, Spain last week, a trio of experts — Saad Malik, chief technology officer and co-founder of Spectro Cloud; Bailey Hayes, principal software engineer at SingleStore; and Fabrizio Pandini, a staff engineer at VMware — joined Alex Williams, founder and publisher of The New Stack, and myself for a livestream event.