Podcast: Behaviour Change in Transport – Conversations with Liz Ampt and Professor David Hensher

Hosted by David Brown

In this two-part episode, we explore the critical but often overlooked question in transport planning: not just what people do, but why they do it. Our guests, Dr Liz Ampt and Professor David Hensher, have each made major contributions to understanding behaviour change and its role in shaping more effective, sustainable, and humane transport systems.

Part 1 – Liz Ampt: Voluntary Behaviour Change

Liz Ampt challenges the top-down nature of many transport programs—like road safety and active travel—that assume experts know best. Instead, she promotes voluntary behaviour change through conversation, empathy, and individual empowerment. Her work shows that real and lasting change comes when people are invited to reflect on their routines, frustrations, and aspirations—and then supported to discover their own practical solutions.

Rather than leading with guilt or grand messaging, Ampt’s team asks deceptively simple but revealing questions like: “When was the last time you were in a car and wished you weren’t?” These moments open up powerful insights—from a mother missing her morning newspaper to a designer tired of finding parking—that lead to small, personal shifts like carpooling, walking, or rethinking routines. The approach, while labour-intensive, is often more effective than traditional marketing.

Ampt’s work began with transport surveys that moved beyond trip data to motivations and emotions. This foundation has guided successful behaviour-change initiatives in other areas too—like reducing water use and phosphorus pollution—using the same core method: respectful, open conversation.

Part 2 – David Hensher: Behavioural Insight and the Future of Mobility

Professor David Hensher, Director of the Institute of Transport and Logistics Studies at the University of Sydney, reflects on the foundational role Liz Ampt played in shaping Australian transport research—especially through the landmark 1981 Sydney Household Travel Survey. Her emphasis on understanding why people travel remains vital today, especially as planners navigate new technologies and uncertain futures.

Hensher warns that while AI and big data have value, they often lack the depth and context found in unit record data—detailed, confidential insights collected directly from individuals and households over time. These offer a richer understanding of behaviour and its triggers, especially when tracked longitudinally.

In his current work with ITS Australia, TMR Queensland, and the federal government, Hensher is developing a new survey that explores behavioural change through life events—like health issues, job changes, or family needs—rather than just distance or cost. He stresses that understanding motivations outside the transport silo (e.g. health, well-being, or working from home) is essential for planning meaningful, responsive mobility systems.

Hensher also argues for a shift from static annual surveys to frameworks that embrace uncertainty, test future scenarios, and capture perceptions. He calls for Australia to invest in long-term panel data (like the US labour force survey) to help track how attitudes and behaviours evolve—not just for comparison, but to inform bold, adaptable decisions.

Key Message:

True behavioural insight requires more than counting trips or adjusting fares. It means listening, asking better questions, and helping people arrive at their own solutions—whether in transport, health, or broader community life.